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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

American Troops Killed in Afghanistan; Focus on Taliban; Driver Hits Vegas Crowd; Graham Quits Race. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired December 21, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:00:24] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to LEGAL VIEW. And we begin with this breaking news in the war in Afghanistan where this holiday season families are about to get some terrible news in the United States, in that U.S. troops have been killed in and attack in Bagram. It was a suicide bomber on a motorcycle who blew himself up near a joint Afghan NATO patrol, killing six service members nearby. This all happening near the Bagram airfield area.

Joining me now live with more details, or at least what we can get at this early stage, CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr is standing. She's at the Pentagon. And retired Lieutenant General Mark Hertling is a CNN military analyst who has served in Afghanistan. He's live right now with us from Orlando.

First to you, Barbara. What do we know about those who were killed?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, we do know, Ashleigh, that six service members were killed, three wounded. The reason the Pentagon is not at this moment saying all six were Americans is this is still very early news. First reports often can be wrong, so they're going through everything. They do know that some Americans were killed, but they're trying to get that absolute confirmation as to exactly how many of the six, if all of them, in fact, were Americans. They believe this mission was a mission consisting of U.S. troops, and Afghan troops. No word on the fate of the Afghans involved. It happened outside of Bagram Air Base. By all accounts, the troops were going on to a meeting with local officials, we believe, when this happened.

It's just the latest instance of violence. Of course, there have been attacks in Kabul recently, attacks in northern Afghanistan. And in the south, Helmand province, again, heating up as the Taliban are resurgent there.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: And just so I know that the circumstance currently that the American troops find themselves in Afghanistan, they are at several different bases in advise and assist roles. But line up for me exactly where they are other than Bagram, and the concern that this poses for those other operating bases.

STARR: Well, look, U.S. troops in Afghanistan are always at the highest state of security alert no matter where they are. It's a very unsettled area there for them to be in. So, you have them in Bagram, in northeastern Afghanistan, where there's a major air operation that continues, in Kabul, about an hour south of Bagram, that is the headquarters for the NATO alliance. And they move in and out of several locations in the east and in the south. You have special forces in particular helping train, advise and assist the Afghans as they go about their business.

But this is becoming a very fraught situation as the Taliban are resurgent in certain areas, it certainly is putting U.S. troops at perhaps a greater risk as they move around and assist and advise the Afghan forces. But the mission does not fundamentally change. The troops are expected to stay there through most of next year.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: I want to bring General Hertling into this conversation as well, Barbara, if I can.

General Hertling, you lost nine men. And it wasn't that far off of the holiday season. I don't want to make light of the notion that this is a holiday week, but this is significance to other troops. This is sort of - I mean this has a big impact. The families back home will not be having a Christmas message. The troops who are there will have this weighing upon them as they get their Christmas meal and their Christmas messages. But does this change the dynamic at all of the mission?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: No, it does not, Ashleigh. And - and you're right, any time you lose soldiers, any time you lose an element of your force, it's - it's tough. It's tough on the command team that is always questioning themselves, what could we have done better to prevent their safety or their security, how could we have done this mission to provide more safety for our troops. And what you always revert back to is, this is combat. This is a conflict. There are the wills of different sides trying to impinge themselves on the other. And - but you're right, I've been in situations. I've spent seven Christmases in combat zones of one form or another. And whenever you lose a soldier on Christmas Eve or sometime near the holidays and you have to tell that casualty assistance officer back home that they've got to take that news to the family, it's especially difficult, and that's what I'm sure, depending on what we learn about how many of these were Americans or any service truthfully, any one of our coalition partners, it's going to make for a tough Christmas.

[12:05:16] BANFIELD: So then walk me through, as a commander, when this happens in a place just north of Kabul, just I mean geographically going to walk you around Afghanistan here, this happened in Bagram but there's Masari (ph) Sharif (ph) up in the north, there's Harat (ph) way out on the west, there's Kandahar in the south and they are all critical, critical posts.

HERTLING: Yes. BANFIELD: How does this news spread, and what happens? Barbara Starr just said it, you're always at a heightened state of security and alert, but does this change anything for those troops who might be going out on patrol with some of those NATO partners?

HERTLING: No, it does not. I mean, truthfully, you're at - you're at a combat-readiness posture all the time in - in Bagram - or, I'm sorry, in Afghanistan. Whether or not you're at one of the four quadrants around the country where American forces and coalition forces are based primarily, but they're also going out within the environment. They have to do that. You have to have these engagements with the local - the local governments, the local security forces, that you have soldiers and other service members engaging with not only the army of Afghanistan, but also the police forces. So you've got to be out and among the people and the tribes. And sometimes, you know, the enemy gets lucky. And it appears in this case, it looks like it was a motorcycle bomb. Those are somewhat present all over Afghanistan. Any kinds of IEDs, whether it's a car or a motorcycle or in some cases even bicycles or a suicide vest wearer, you have to be conscious that those kinds of dangers are all around you.

BANFIELD: Yes, you know, our thoughts go out to those family members of those troops this holiday season.

HERTLING: Absolutely.

BANFIELD: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, thank you.

General Hertling, as always, thank you.

And, by the way, I say troops, but the troops aren't the only people who are at grave risk living in Afghanistan. All of this is happening even as an Afghan-American woman was allegedly shot to death in Kabul by a mullah, a religious leader. This according to the Kabul police official who spoke with reporters. Police saying the attack happened as this woman left her apartment complex - in fact, the gym at that complex - 8:00 on Sunday night. The mullah apparently was injured, but has been arrested. The investigation only just beginning on this one.

After the pullout of the U.S.-led coalition that spent 13 years, count them, 13 years at war in Afghanistan, it appears the Taliban is making somewhat of a resurgence and recapturing some territory. CNN's Sara Sidner is here with me.

You spent a lot of time overseas in Afghanistan, as well as other of these - these regions that surround Afghanistan. And just most recently, you've just come back from Turkey, where I thought you misspoke when you said you're seeing Afghan refugees in Turkey.

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

BANFIELD: I encountered thousands of Afghan refugees, but always in Pakistan.

SIDNER: Right. BANFIELD: It was the closest point of entry. And you're saying they're full, they can't deal, and those Afghans are making the treacherous journey westward as far as Turkey.

SIDNER: Yes, they are. And we saw them over and over and over again. We even visited a village that was all Afghans. There was one Iranian family and the rest were Afghans. Not Syrians, Afghans, who were all there. they were on the border. They were literally on the water waiting for boats to come pick them up so that they could make it to Greece. And that was their hope, that they would get to Greece and then get into Europe, along with the Syrians.

And some of them have sort of been following the path. They use kind of the Syrians and the way that they're able. Many of them are very educated, the Syrians, so they kind of watch to see what the Syrians do and then they follow along.

We spoke to a couple of the families. Amazingly, a lot of these families, they speak English. Their - you know, war has gone on there for so long they've - they've learned English. And they were talking about the fact that they are so afraid in their own country now and they've been there throughout all of these wars, 40 years really of war.

BANFIELD: Sure.

SIDNER: And they have gotten so afraid because the Taliban has made such a resurgence in many different parts of the country that they simply cannot take it anymore. They just decided it's worth the risk of death to try to escape what they feel like is certain death in their own village. And by the way, one of them said - by the way, this isn't just about the Taliban, ISIS is here. We have seen them. They are a growing force.

BANFIELD: Yes.

SIDNER: They're fighting the Taliban, but they're here.

BANFIELD: I'll be honest with you, and people don't like to hear this, but when I was in Afghanistan, many of them said that they welcomed to Taliban, as oppressive as they were to women, at least it was peaceful after 26 years of civil war -

SIDNER: Right.

BANFIELD: Where factions were fighting constantly. And it's not as though factions weren't fighting when the Taliban was there anyway, but they welcomed the quiet. But you're saying that it's the Taliban that they don't want and it's also ISIS in Afghanistan. This problem is spreading badly eastward?

SIDNER: It absolutely is. Kanduz (ph) province, Parone (ph) province, the capital, Kabul, Helmand province, they're all either being attacked very successfully by the Taliban, or the Taliban is taking back some of the land that U.S. coalition forces fought so hard to remove them from. [12:10:10] BANFIELD: Sure.

SIDNER: And so you have this situation were families are going, oh my God, we're still in the middle of this, we are still being killed, we are still targets.

BANFIELD: Whole generations.

SIDNER: Whole generations of people.

BANFIELD: Whole generations.

SIDNER: Lastly -

BANFIELD: Yes.

SIDNER: In Helmand province today alone, the deputy governor wrote this urgent message on Facebook, of all places, to his president, Ashraf Ghani, say saying help us, the Taliban is about to take over this entire province if you don't help us. That's how urgent the situation is.

BANFIELD: That's remarkable, Facebook. And while I was there, they didn't have copper wire for a phone call.

SIDNER: Right.

BANFIELD: It's amazing. Excellent work out there, Sara.

SIDNER: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Thank you for bringing home the stories. We really appreciate it.

SIDNER: You bet.

BANFIELD: You and your team, thank you.

We've got another very big story on the legal front today. Within the next hour, we're expecting to get some brand-new details on that horrifying incident last night in Las Vegas. What could possibly have driven a young woman with her toddler in the car to run down dozens of people who were just walking on the sidewalk? That story's next.

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BANFIELD: I want to take you to Las Vegas now, where once again we're going to bring you the story of a woman who police say drove her car into a crowd of people, and it was on purpose. The twist? This woman had a three-year-old in the car with her. And the damage was extensive. One person was killed, 37 others were injured, some of them critically. All of this happening last night on a crowded sidewalk near the Paris Hotel in Las Vegas on The Strip.

The driver, in her 20s. Police say this did not just happen once. That she allegedly went on to that sidewalk three or four different times, ramming into people each time.

[12:15:14] Stephanie Elam is live in Las Vegas right now and she's on The Strip.

I think so many people woke up to this news this morning, Stephanie, and could not believe that the police were saying this appears to be intentional. And yet, first question, it is not terror. They are not saying that this is terror-related. Explain.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. That's - they obviously know something we don't, Ashleigh. They've obviously had conversations with this woman. We know that they had her in custody last night. They found her about a mile away from where this accident happened. And they have been talking to her. We know that they are looking into reasonings why.

But think about it, you're talking around 6:30 in the afternoon/evening here in Vegas on a Sunday. You have Miss Universe happening at the same time right there where the accident happened at Planet Hollywood. You also have other reasons that people are here, including a tournament. We know four of the people that were hurt were from Pacific University in Oregon. They were wrestlers. They were from the wrestling team, in town for a tournament. So all of that happening down here behind me. All of those people out on the street walking. We know at least one child was hurt.

But just take a listen to what some people on - on the scene, who saw what was happening, what they said it looked like in the moment. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It looked like she wasn't even trying to stop the car. She had both of her hands on the wheel and was looking straight forward and there were men running after her trying to stop the vehicle and they couldn't get to her. They were yelling, "stop, stop," and she just wasn't trying.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The car rolled right in front of me. By the time I like looked over to the right, all you could see was driving away and people were like bouncing off the front of the car, you can hear it. People were punching the window trying to get the - apparently the child out of the back seat and she accelerated again and just kept mowing everyone down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ELAM: Just terrifying to image that happening where you think you should be safe on the sidewalk, especially when people are walking with children and so forth. We also know that of the people that were hurt, we know five of them were Canadian. That's what we're learning so far, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Stephanie Elam for us live in Las Vegas. Thank you for that.

Obviously, this woman is in a world of trouble, at least that's what's facing her. What kind of trouble? I want to bring in CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Phil Holloway, and CNN legal analyst and defense attorney Danny Cevallos.

Guys, no charges levied at this point, but isn't this murder?

PHILIP HOLLOWAY, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: The police are going to treat it like a murder, Ashleigh, until they know anything otherwise. They are going to go through her cell phone, they're going to go through her electronics, they're going to go through her medical records, they're going to look to see if there's anything that can explain this. Obviously, they've talked to her. We don't know what was said. They were going to check her blood, we know that, to see if she's been drinking or using any other kind of drugs. But it's kind of like that OSU parade that we saw where the lady turned out not to be under the influence and everybody thought she was.

BANFIELD: Sure.

HOLLOWAY: So it could be just something absolutely inexplicable.

BANFIELD: So, Danny, the witness who said she had her hands on the wheel and was staring straight ahead. This wasn't someone flailing to - in this witness's estimation. This wasn't someone passing out. And I can't imagine anything less than murder. We have one person who's dead and several who could be. They are in critical condition in the hospital. What less than murder could this be?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: A defense in this case is going to center around some kind of accident or that she lost control of the car. But there are many ways to get around that, and a jury can make an inference of intent. You're going to have a number of witnesses. Any accident reconstruction is going to show likely, if there are no skid marks or any efforts to stop, those leave some residual evidence. And accident reconstruction can determine that.

You're also talking about the Vegas Strip. There are likely video cameras -

BANFIELD: Everywhere.

CEVALLOS: Everywhere. Video cameras we haven't even thought of, whether on people's iPhones or security cameras. They are - this is a highly televised area of the planet, to say the least. So then, in Las Vegas, or in Nevada, causing the death under DUI with a motor vehicle is a B-felony, two to 20 years, but murder is murder, and murder statutes are very similar throughout the country.

BANFIELD: Yes, you can be -

CEVALLOS: If they can show that intent -

BANFIELD: You can be drunk and still murder people, and it's not about a DUI anymore, it is about the intent that that witness said she had her hands on the wheel, staring straight ahead, and this this happened several times. It wasn't just one out of control vehicle.

HOLLOWAY: Right.

BANFIELD: She went up and into the crowd three different times.

HOLLOWAY: That was what was the most compelling to me is the eyewitnesses actually that saw her with her - both hands on the wheel looking straight ahead. That shows that she knew what she was doing, that it was intentional, and it would not surprise me if she's not charged with at least one murder, and God forbid if somebody else dies or some of the other people -

BANFIELD: Multiple.

HOLLOWAY: Right. Yes, absolutely.

BANFIELD: Yes.

So, Danny, the other issue is, look, every defense attorney will tell you eyewitness testimony is not always reliable. As much weight as we like to give to it -

HOLLOWAY: Right.

[12:20:01] BANFIELD: Humans make horrible mistakes. But four, six, eight, 22, 85 witnesses who might all have the same kind of an account, that is extraordinary powerful.

CEVALLOS: Defense attorneys like Philip and I will trot in the eyewitness testimony scientific expert in a case where one person saw something happen 10 years ago and we'll talk about who memories are recorded on our brains. That's one kind of case. This is a different kind of case. As I said before, there are scores of potential witnesses and perhaps videos that we're not even aware of that will surface later on. And with the - the rising of sort of video evidence, this has added a new level of objectivity to eyewitness testimony. If they can have it - if there is any video evidence combined with legions of witnesses, if they tell a consistent tale, then a jury can draw the inference that even if the defendant denies that it was any murderous intent, any malice, as we've known for centuries, a jury can draw an inference based on the observations of witnesses.

BANFIELD: Watch for the next front in this being the appearance, the charges and the competency because I suspect that will be a very big issue in this case, was she competent to even stand before a judge and actually, you know, defend herself against the charges that are almost certainly about to come down.

In fact - thank you, Phil. Thank you, Danny.

We are awaiting a live news conference out of Vegas, in fact. It's supposed to happen at the top of the hour. And here's what we want to know, the whole story behind what this woman said to the police, what they will tell us, and what it will yield. What charges will she face and what condition is she in and where is the baby, the toddler who was in that car when all of this happened. A lot of questions we want answered. Again, about 40 minutes or so from now we're expecting that live news conference, so make sure you keep it right here and we'll get you there live.

And coming up also next, he's been praised for his debate performances. He's been a leading voice in the war against ISIS. But he could not gain a whole lot of traction in the presidential race. And so, big news today, the man on the right, stepping down. An exclusive interview with our Kate Bolduan, Lindsey Graham, a senator much beloved by his colleagues and others says I am done. Find out from his perspective all of the reasons why.

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[12:25:50] BANFIELD: You know, he really never got any traction in his bid for the White House, so now Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina is throwing in the towel and calling it quits. He spoke exclusively with our own Kate Bolduan on why he's leaving the race and what is next for him, and, in his estimation, and maybe more importantly, what is next for his party.

Kate Bolduan is here. The busiest woman in television. Working the weekend, in fact,

Great interview.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Congratulations.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Great exclusive, great scoop on everybody. So this is a big deal. None of us had any inkling, just as early as Tuesday when he was at the debate, that this was impending.

BOLDUAN: Well, and he still was doing - he still had public events. He had events in New Hampshire even after the debate. But, of course, this had to be in the back of his mind. I mean he - when I asked him very simply, of course the big question is why and why now, he said in no uncertain terms, he didn't see a path forward. He seen he had hit the wall. He never was able to break through above the bottom tier in the debates. And that debate structure is at least in part what he blames for why he could never break through.

BANFIELD: Was the debate a hail Mary though?

BOLDUAN: The debate -

BANFIELD: Do you think he could actually make it if he just could make traction at that debate, he wouldn't have to do this?

BOLDUAN: He had thought in all of the previous debates that if he - the traction that he had made - because all of his debate performances were really widely -

BANFIELD: Were good. Yes.

BOLDUAN: You know, seen as winners, especially in the last one. But still, you see in the Fox News poll that came out all after the debate, he didn't make any difference and he blames that structure, the two-tiered system, at least in part for why he was never able to break through. Here's his announcement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Well, I - my campaign, I'm going to suspend my campaign. I'm not going to suspend my desire to help the country. I'll probably go back to Iraq and Afghanistan and get another update. Thirty-six trips has informed me. But the one thing I feel really good about is that I did it with a smile on my face. I talked about things that are important to me and somebody better fix one day.

BOLDUAN: Why are you getting out of the race?

GRAHAM: Well, because I've hit a wall here. You know, my campaign has come to a point where I need to think about getting out and helping somebody else. Here's what I predict, again, I think the nominee of our party is going to adopt my plan when it comes time to articulate how to destroy ISIL.

BOLDUAN: Can't you do more in pushing that conversation by being in the race than by leaving it though?

GRAHAM: Well, to be a viable candidate, you've got to have finances, and you've got to, you know, get on the big stage.

BOLDUAN: What's the final straw, though?

GRAHAM: My biggest - my biggest problem is that a lot of people like what I say, but not many people hear it. This whole process started in a kind of strange way. You couldn't get on the main stage unless you polled at a certain level. Well, if you've never run before, that's pretty hard if you're - if you don't come from a political family, that's pretty hard. If you come from a small state versus a large state, that's pretty hard. If you've got a lot of money, you're going to do better. So here's what I would advise the Republican Party to do in the future, never do this again. The bottom line is, people are coming my way in terms of a more robust foreign policy. Jeb and Rubio, Marco, are very much in sync with where I'm at. I think Kasich and Christie and, you know, Donald Trump talks tough and he's trying to act tough, and, you know, if he gets to be the nominee, I'll give him my two cents' worth about a plan that I think can keep the country safe. And I'll make another prediction. I think Hillary Clinton's going to adopt most of this before it's over with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Hmm, that was interesting. You know, obviously, there are so many questions that come in the wake of a candidate walking away from a -

BOLDUAN: Yes, sort of the postmortem that occurs, yes.

BANFIELD: All of it, and what now, who gets your voters even though there are very few of them at this point polling, who is he going to endorse, because he's very credible.

BOLDUAN: Right.

BANFIELD: And will he stand behind Donald Trump if he's the nominee?

BOLDUAN: Look, the endorsement question is a huge question, and it's kind of the reaction I've been getting is the importance of a Lindsey Graham endorsement maybe outweighs the support you saw in the polls because it comes back to his credibility in national security, and that's something he's very proud of, where he says he thinks he really moved the conversation towards a more robust foreign policy discussion by entering this race. That's one of the things he thinks.

[12:29:55] When I asked him if - who he will endorse, if he will endorse, he said that he's not ready to endorse anyone. And I think, honestly, it became pretty clear in the interview, he's still chewing it over. He may - he did make clear, though, he - whichever candidate he would endorse, it would have to be the best candidate, in his view, to be commander in chief. That's probably not surprising.