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Mall of America has filed restraining orders against Black Lives Matter protesters; Texas grand jury has decided not to indict any officers or prison staff connected to the death of Sandra Bland; SpaceX has launched and landed a reusable rocket; New piece of technology that could change the way we shop for groceries; Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired December 22, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00] ART RODERICK, FORMER ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, U.S. MARSHALS SERVICE: So this is going to weigh on them to a point where it could cause them just to give up at some point, walk into a police station and say you've got me.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: OK. So you are saying because they are not your usual criminal, they don't fit that profile, that makes them more probably predictable to you.

RODERICK: Yes. Predictable, but at least it leads me to believe they will make a mistake here somewhere down the line.

LEMON: What it if they are outside the country, Art then what?

RODERICK: Well, if they are outside the country, obviously, it makes it a little more difficult but by no means impossible. I will tell you. The U.S. marshals arrest 100,000 fugitive felons every single year, both domestically and internationally. So we do have contacts out there. We would get with Interpol. A red notice will be issued. That would go out to 190 different countries. And those countries can haul these two individuals on that red notice alone.

LEMON: All right. Art Roderick, thank you. Appreciate it.

RODERICK: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: Up next, the Mall of America has filed restraining orders against Black Lives Matter protesters in an effort to stop a protest on one of the busiest days of the year. We are going to bring you both sides of this court battle, next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:34:33] LEMON: The largest mall in America is taking on the Black Lives Matter movement. The social activist group planning a massive demonstration inside Minneapolis' fame mall of America on one of the busiest shopping days of the holiday season. The group did the same thing last year. More than 1,000 people took over part of the mall in a peaceful protest, but this year mall executives filed a restraining order demanding they stay away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[15:35:00] SUSAN GAERTNER, ATTORNEY, MALL OF AMERICA: This was widely publicized that unlawful demonstrations should occur on Wednesday. And all we are asking is for the same means to be used to say, hey, this is against the law. And we are calling it off.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are trying to force us to say something that they don't have the authority to do so. This is definitely not only an attack on Black Lives Matter, but on everybody's first amendment rights.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: I'm glad I have Joey Jackson here, who is our criminal defense attorney and CNN legal analyst. Here's what's at issue here, Joey. The mall's restraining order, right. They are asking the Black Lives Matter folks to go on social media and cancel the protest or face possible arrests on the ground at the mall's private property. That's if the restraining order is granted. That's one, right. Is the mall of America open to the public or is it private ground?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes and no.

LEMON: OK.

JACKSON: OK? Let's talk about this. Now, the fact is that a mall is private property. And as a result of being private property, the same first amendment protections will not apply as if it were something that was governmental or public. Now, a mall by the virtue of the fact that it's an open space, by virtue of the fact that people shop, of course, it's open to the public, but there could be restrictions placed on what people can do within that property. For example, a mall can ban what you wear or not wear, right. If you don't have shoes, you don't get service. You don't have a shirt, you don't get the service, you know. So they can do things like that. If you're wearing something offensive, which normally you would be protected in public, in a mall such as private property, you won't. And so, based upon it being a private space, in direct answer to your question, since it is private property, you know, there could be reasonable restrictions.

LEMON: OK. So then number two, does it infringe on first amendment rights? The right to expression and freedom of speech and what someone can post on social media?

JACKSON: Well, posting on social media is going a little far here. I don't think a mall executive can tell me what I can post and where I can post, how I can post, what I have to remove. That's something separate. But he executives can tell you and they can place regulations on what demonstrators can do if they can demonstrate that.

Now, what people say is largely up to them. We all have a right to speak our mind and to say things that we think are very important to us and express our opinions. However, in terms of where you can express it on the property, I think that's what the restraining order is addressing. And so, again, regardless of what you feel about the black lives

movement, whether you're really supportive of it or whether you are against it, the issue in terms of whether they can protest on that property, you know, courts have essentially said that since it is private property, they can, the owners, make restrictions relating to whether people can protest.

LEMON: Some were saying it's an intimidation move by mall executives to try to control where people can protest and to get, you know, hey, listen, if the judge decide with us, you should go on social media and tell people that is cancel.

JACKSON: Listen. If I'm the attorney for Black Lives Matter movement, the argument is that this is oppressing the movement. We have a message that's valuable. There are issues concerning black lives and the denigration of them and the disrespect of them. We should be allowed to do whatever wept in a peaceful way. If, of course, you're a mall owner, this is about disruption of your property. This is a very significant shopping day. It affects our business interest. And it could potentially affect public safety, so don't come.

So there are two narratives. And depending on which side you support is the narrative that you're going to adopt and as fast.

LEMON: But can a judge, if there's a restraining order, can the judge say, listen, because you promoted this on social media then you must go on social media and make every attempt to un-promote it now that I've handed out this order?

JACKSON: I think that is more of a tricky area. I think the judge's issue is to respect whatever the order is. And if the order says that we are not going to protest because you are not allowed to do it, then of course, that's a directive. You cannot come and you can't protest here. But in terms of what people say on social media, how they convey their message, I think that's getting on ground that's a little too fertile for I think a judge to make a ruling.

LEMON: Before I move on, so if the judge says don't show up and they do show up, then that means that you can go to jail?

LEMON: It's a problem. It would be then an unlawful assembly and as a result of that people would be subject to consequences.

LEMON: Thank you, Joey Jackson.

JACKSON: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: All right. Appreciate that.

A Texas grand jury has decided not to indict any officers or prison staff connected to the death of Sandra Bland. Bland was a 28-year-old black woman who died in police custody three days after she was arrested during a traffic stop. Authorities say her lifeless body was found hanged inside her jail cell. Bland's family doesn't believe she committed suicide and plans to continue to press for criminal charges. One of the special prosecutors this case is not over yet. The grand jury will reconvene next month review possible indictments on other charges.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHARON COOPER, SANDRA BLAND'S SISTER: There are a myriad of things that we have not been given as a family. It hasn't been furnished as a family. We have those very same concerns that it would not be furnished to the grand jury. And if it were, it would be information we would not be privy to (INAUDIBLE), our sister and daughter's death.

[15:40:06] DARRELL JORDAN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: I understand they are in a different situation because they are grieving the loss of a loved one. But I will also say the invitation is out to them, we're happy to speak with them. We have asked before to speak with them and will ask again. We would love to speak with the family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Bland's family is calling for indictments against the arresting state trooper, Brian Insigna (ph). He is currently on desk duty. The family has also filed a wrongful death suit against state and local authorities.

Democratic Presidential candidate Bernie Sanders sided with the family releasing a statement saying in part, there's no doubt in my mind that she, like too many African-Americans who die in police cuss dis, would be alive if she were a white woman. We need to reform a broken criminal justice system. Again, coming from Bernie Sanders, Democratic presidential candidate.

Up next, what is the most pressing issue for voters in New Hampshire? Is it jobs, maybe the economy, maybe taxes? Would you believe none of the above? CNN takes a revealing look at the most important issue facing the first primary state.

Plus they did it, SpaceX has launched and landed a reusable rocket. Is it a step that could make space travel much cheaper? A former astronaut joins me live to explain what it all means. Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:44:45] LEMON: We have discussed the horse race in the presidential campaign a lot now. Let's talk about one of the issues that has been growing at least for the past five years. You would think the economy would be the biggest concern, but not in New Hampshire and in many other cities around the country. It shows that drug abuse, especially, we are talking about heroin. That is the number one growing drug problem in the country right now.

Here's CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[15:45:07] CAREY CURRIVAN, RECOVERING HEROIN USER: My name is Casey. I'm a volunteer. I'm also a person in recovery now. DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You met with Jeb

Bush.

CURRIVAN: Yes.

GUPTA: How was that?

CURRIVAN: They were all looking at me and Jeb Bush sitting in the middle. And it was -- the thoughts that went through my head immediately was I'm not worthy of this. And immediately I thought of (INAUDIBLE), the director for health in New Hampshire saying why not you. I thought why not me. What don't I have to offer?

GUPTA: What Casey Currivan is offering is a desperate story, tough to hear, about an epidemic of drug abuse claiming too many lives in New England.

CURRIVAN: It's the number one thing somebody under the age of 35 is going to die from in my state. It beats out car accidents. If you're not paying attention to that, then you have no right to represent anybody. It's ignorant to ignore it.

GUPTA: Fourteen months ago, drug abuse barely registered here in the Grand Estate. Now it's at the top. More important to voters than jobs, the economy, the taxes, you name it.

CURRIVAN: (INAUDIBLE) went off like a bomb in New England.

GUPTA: It started with oxy, oxycon (ph). What many don't realize is that pills like these and heroin have a lot in common. In fact, they are so similar that for an addict or an abuser, they are essentially interchangeable. No surprise, then, 80 percent of heroin addicts started off using pills.

How did that happen for you?

CURRIVAN: Somebody in the hotel had offered us heroin. I almost looked at it like a science experiment. That was how my brain justified going through the whole process of using heroin. I sniffed it. And it had an effect, but it wasn't the effect I was looking for. An hour later I shot heroin.

GUPTA: What were you trying to discover here?

CURRIVAN: I just wanted relief.

GUPTA: Relief from?

CURRIVAN: Relief from my thoughts, my feelings, my emotions. If I had the power to choose, I wouldn't choose to use every day.

GUPTA: What Casey is describing is a substance use disorder. That's a new name for an age old disorder, addiction. It's a brain disease. It causes you to seek out drugs, no matter how horrible the consequences. In fact, Casey almost died of a heroin overdose. He now wants narcan (ph), a sort of antidote in the hands of anyone who needs it. Why? Because it saved him like it did for this woman. She has overdosed and is no longer breathing. Now watch closely what happens when she gets narcan. Casey's message along with many others is starting to be heard.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Addiction is not new.

GUPTA: In October President Obama announced efforts to double the number of providers that can prescribe narcan. It was welcomed news here in New Hampshire where the cries for help, any sort of help are the loudest. And we kept asking ourselves. Why here in New England? Well, the answer in part is because heroin is particularly easy to get and very cheap.

How easy is it to find if you wanted to find it?

CURRIVAN: That's a good question. I guarantee you there's nobody in New England with money in their pocket that is saying, God, I wish I could find heroin if they really needed it.

GUPTA: You have money, you can find it?

CURRIVAN: Yes.

GUPTA: Casey hopes the days he was out buying heroin stay behind him. He spends his free time now with his 3-year-old son and staying true to his recovery. Still this wasn't the life he ever imagined. Slowly becoming the new face of a former heroin addict.

CURRIVAN: People think that a person suffering from alcoholism or addiction they have this image that comes up in their mind. And I like to break that image. Because if I met you on the street, you wouldn't think that two years ago I was a heroin use user.

GUPTA: Yes, Casey Currivan, is a new face. Now tasked with taking the message of 23 million Americans currently in recovery straight to the candidates. Jeb Bush, Bernie Sanders, Chris Christie, anyone who could possibly stop this epidemic.

CURRIVAN: I would appreciate it they use the same language, those addicts, those people. Because those people are your moms and dads, son and daughter, they are your neighbor, they are the chief in your police, they are everybody, they are your doctor, your nurse. We are not unique people. Just we have a chronic (INAUDIBLE) condition that treatment is available and recovery is 100 percent possible.

[15:50:25] GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, Manchester, New Hampshire.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Republican candidate Chris Christie one of several candidates campaigning in New Hampshire today. He sat down with CNN and that interview is on CNN next hour.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [15:53:55] LEMON: Huge milestone in space travel to tell you about in this spectacular moment for private space industry. That bright glowing ball of light that you see right there, right next to me, that is a SpaceX rocket after placing satellites in space successfully returning to earth and sticking the landing. Success comes after two failed attempts. I want you to listen to how this touchdown was created at SpaceX headquarters in California. It was a celebration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's landing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So that was one happy group of space engineers and space entrepreneurs. So, let's talk about what this all means for the former astronaut, Michael Massamino.

Michael, was this such a big deal?

MICHAEL MASSIMINO, FORMER NASA ASTRONAUT: Yes, huge. These people have a lot to be excited about and proud about. You know, it's the first time they have been able to do this, that a private company's been able to return the first stage of their launch vehicle back upright, not in a splashdown in the ocean. But it came back down, six miles away from where it launched and ready to use again.

[15:55:02] LEMON: The showed the trails, right, what it looked like going up, what it looked like coming down. But I think it - you know, must share it on social media. Is that what makes this different this time? Is this the returning part of it that is reusable?

MASSIMINO: That's correct. So it is normally what happens is you have what we call expendable rockets where you launch into space and the spacecraft survives, hopefully, but the launch vehicle is not reused. And a lot of times, in fact in most systems the Soyuz that we are using to get to the space station with people right now is not reusable space craft. So they returned the launch vehicle itself, so you can use it again.

LEMON: And that is big money, right?

MASSIMINO: We had the shuttle, external rockets that would come back and land in the ocean. But you had to send a ship out to get a few days ahead of time and bring them all the way back to the launch pad and they had to go out to Utah to get refurbished. You know, here, they put it back right down where they almost where they took off from. So, this is I think it is amazing the way they did this. It is a great accomplishment.

LEMON: So as saving money. Does this mean the way we are dealing with space exploration now where it's not just NASA, right, that it is sort of, I don't know, private space exploration, does it make it more viable?

MASSIMINO: Yes, absolutely. So this is, I think this is like into if you look at aircraft, it is a lot of aircraft development was done for the military and for the government, and then entrepreneurs like Howard Hughes found ways to build planes and airlines and make money. And now we have this thriving aircraft, airline industry. So, you know, we fast forward a bunch of years to where we are now, I think we are at the threshold event, hopefully that happening again. They have to make it cost effective because these people are in money - these people in business to make money, right? So for them to be able to reuse the launch vehicle, turn it around quickly, and save money, not just throw it away, that's a huge accomplishment.

LEMON: I can't wait to see humans going up.

MASSIMINO: This is big. This is big. It opens a lot of opportunities not just NASA anymore. It's hopefully thriving commercial industry.

LEMON: I can see you're excited. This is a Christmas present for you.

MASSIMINO: There you go.

LEMON: Congratulations, Michael Massimino.

MASSIMINO: Merry Christmas.

LEMON: Merry Christmas. Thank you, sir.

All right. Here is another piece of technology that could change the way we shop for groceries. The man behind Skype is now pushing a plan to use robots to bring down the cost of home grocery delivery.

CNN's business correspondent Samuel Burke and he checked out how it works.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAMUEL BURKE, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: The last mile of delivery is most expensive. So companies around the world are working to make that final stretch more efficient, faster. They are experimenting with drones, drivers and now, pardon me, self-driving robots.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The most expensive because there's a huge van starting and stopping and the driver is getting on and off and knocking on doors and that takes time and that's something that the driver needs to do for every person.

BURKE: Home grocery delivery services like fresh direct and Amazon fresh are convenient but not always cheap. Amazon's membership cost $300 a year. One of Skype's founders believes he can bring costs down with self-driving robots.

What does it have in it different from the cart I use to get my groceries?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, the cart doesn't have nine cameras, but our robot does. And it's six-wheel drive, so it has motors, electric motors and various other sensors. The robot is observing pedestrians. The robot is navigating on the sidewalk, and it needs to be aware of its surrounding.

BURKE: How does it get from the warehouse to the person's house? Are you using Google maps?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are doing our own mapping actually, because the maps that our robots need are quite special. They are more sidewalk maps than road maps. Exactly. Exactly.

BURKE: Excuse me, sir, you help me? I'm trying to steal a robot.

Theft deterrents include onboard cameras and GPS tracking, and worst case scenario and each unit just isn't that valuable.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The most expensive part in the robot is about $40. And that's actually the point of it, it has to be low-cost machine otherwise economics doesn't work.

BURKE: And he says your groceries are safe as well.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You get notification in your smartphone when the robot arrives. And then you push a button on your smartphone, then the lock opens.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Breaking news into CNN now. CNN's learned that a small contingent of U.S. special operations forces now back in northern Syria. Their mission is to advise local fighters moving into ISIS there. U.S. officials are declining to say how many and where they are, but this is a next step in trying to make progress against ISIS in Syria. The group is part of the about 250 special operation forces. President Barack Obama approved for advisory operations in Syria.

Make sure you will stay with CNN for breaking news, for information on that story throughout the day and evening.

That does it for me. Now, time for "the LEAD" with Jake Tapper right --