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Trump Surging Ahead; Protest Leaders Barred from Rally; Las Vegas Hit-And-Run. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired December 23, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Doing the same thing.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We'll see what happens. Guys, thank you so much. An important discussion.

That's it for me. The news continues right now on CNN.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Wolf Blitzer. I'm Don Lemon, in for Brooke today.

We're going to begin with Donald Trump. We've seen his unconventional. Now he's looking more untouchable than ever. Here's a new CNN poll just out today. It shows the presidential candidate with 39 percent of the Republican vote. At least the third poll to put him at or near 40 percent. With the Iowa caucuses just 40 days away, you see Trump is all by himself in the lead. A second tier is led by Ted Cruz at 18 percent, with Ben Carson and Marco Rubio tied at 10 percent. And I want you to notice in that bottom tier. Rand Paul has overtaken Jeb Bush. So I'm going to turn now to CNN's chief political correspondent, who is Dana Bash.

Dana, hello to you. Good afternoon to you.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Don.

LEMON: This poll also shows more voters have made up their minds.

BASH: There's so many fascinating things to unpack in this poll. But you're right, that is a key issue because it's not just that Donald Trump is doing so well, it's that he's doing so well and we're actually getting close to the time when people go to the polls, or the caucuses in the case of Iowa. And you're right, people are getting more comfortable with the field. Check out this part of the poll. Asked whether they prefer one or two candidates, now 60 percent say that they do. That's up a lot from July. Only 40 percent say that they believe from their perspective the field is wide open.

So, again, it's that Donald Trump is like so far out ahead that the people behind him can barely see him. But it's also that the voters who are telling us that are saying that, you know, they're kind of comfortable where they are right now.

LEMON: I was going to say, this is a comfortability poll, maybe we should call it that, because it shows that more voters, Republican voters, are comfortable, or at least more comfortable with the idea of Donald Trump possibly being the Republican nominee.

BASH: To me this is fascinating because, you know, you hear a lot from the Democrats saying, oh, you know, kind of rubbing their hands together saying, oh, we hope Donald Trump is the nominee because if he is, the Democrats are going to be thrilled and a lot of Republicans, anecdotally saying, oh my gosh, it would be terrible for the party. But this poll suggests that that's changing as well.

Check it out. The whole question about whether or not Republicans' chances would be better with Donald Trump at the top of the ticket, now 46 percent say yes, not Trump say 50. So, you know, it's still more people say no than yes. But it's a big difference from just in August where it was 38 percent who said that they did - that they thought that Donald Trump would put Republicans in a better place.

So, again, things are changing. Things are solidifying for Donald Trump, at least when you're looking at the national level. You know, we'll see what happens when the voters go to the polls - the caucus, what, 40 days from now?

LEMON: I think it said 40, 46 days. Yes, it's - yes, 40 days. So, there we go. Getting pretty close.

Dana Bash, happy holidays to you. You look gorgeous, by the way.

BASH: Oh, thank you, Don. Merry Christmas.

LEMON: Anyways. Merry Christmas to you. I appreciate it.

You know, Trump has been leading the national polls. We've been telling you about it. But remember in Iowa and Des Moines, that "Register"/Bloomberg poll, it showed Ted Cruz winning that state's caucuses February 1st. And Cruz may well win over more supporters as well after what many are calling a low blow from "The Washington Post." The paper pulled this cartoon depicting Cruz's daughters as monkeys. It was in response to a parody ad that Ted Cruz produced in which he reads to his - to his five and seven-year-old daughters. Well, Cruz, today, slammed the drawings. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have to admit, yesterday, when I saw that cartoon, not much ticks me off. But making fun of my girls? That will do it. That tweet that I sent, I typed that out on my iPhone. And, listen, I mean all of us learned in kindergarten, don't hit little girls. It's not complicated. Don't make fun of a five-year- old girl and a seven-year-old.

It used to be for a long time the rules across the board that kids are off limits. That should be the rule. Don't mess with our kids. Don't mess with my kids. Don't mess with Marco's kids. Don't mess with Hillary's kids. Don't mess with anybody's kids. Leave kids alone. And if the media wants to attack and ridicule every Republican, well, that's what they're going to do, but leave our kids alone.

(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: So let's talk politics now with Bob Cusack, editor in chief at "The Hill."

Bob, I hope you got some sleep. You were on with me last night.

BOB CUSACK, EDITOR IN CHIEF, "THE HILL": Yes. Thank you, Don.

LEMON: Kayleigh McEnany, a Republican strategist, joins us as well.

You know, Bob, you run a newsroom and the cartoonist tweeted this. This was this cartoonist said. "Ted Cruz's has put his children in a political ad. Don't start screaming when editorial cartoonists draw them as well." I want to ask you if he has a fair point but we have said for years, it's - with almost every presidential candidate, that the kids are really off limits, but does he have a point here?

[14:05:04] CUSACK: Yes. Ted Cruz is right, "The Washington Post" made a mistake. And, listen, news organizations do make mistakes, but this was out of bounds.

LEMON: Yes.

CUSACK: And I thought Cruz's remarks afterward, whether it's Rubio's kids, Hillary Clinton's kids, they really do have to - they're not running for an office. And, sure, OK, you're going to use kids in campaign ads. That's been done before. But, still, portraying them as monkeys, it gives the media a bad name. And, of course, it - this helps Ted Cruz because he's - once again, he's bashing the media and he has a very valid point.

LEMON: Yes. No, talking about this cartoonist. So, listen, Kayleigh, Ted Cruz used this cartoon and e-mailed his supporter list asking for an emergency donation as he hoped to raise $1 million in the next 24 hours. So offended by this carton and he's redistributing it as a campaign letter, what gives here?

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yes, because I think he's pointing out an important hypocrisy that we see with some media organization, particularly with "The Washington Post." You know, they treat Republican candidates differently than they treat Democrat candidates. You know, if you remember about a year ago, "The Washington Post" was criticizing a Republican communications director for making fun of Obama's children. And now they've did the same exact thing except it was acceptable because it was a Republican candidate that they were attacking and it wasn't a Democrat whose kids were being attacked. So there's this hypocrisy that Ted Cruz has pointed out brilliantly in some media organizations. We saw him do that at the CNBC debate. We see him doing this with "The Washington Post." So he's e-mailing his supporters this ad as an example of that.

LEMON: But my question is, I think everyone agrees here that it is a mistake far this cartoonist to do it, even if the cartoonist is trying to - is doubling down. I think - I think it's wrong and I think most people think it's wrong. But by him e-mailing it out and raising money, my question, Kayleigh, is, is he the one who's keeping it alive at this point? When he said, look, my kids are off limits, all kids should be off limits, I think everybody agree was him. But by sending it out to raise money, you know?

MCENANY: No, but I think the point that he's trying to make is, look at how the media treats Republicans. Look at how the media has attacked me. He is not perpetuating the ad -

LEMON: So give me money?

MCENANY: He's just pointing out a hypocrisy. Yes, he's pointing out a hypocrisy that we see within the media. You know, he's not perpetuating it. He's merely showing his supporters, look, this is how I've been treated, come to my support. The media's scared of me, and this is an example of why they don't want me to be the next nominee.

LEMON: Yes.

MCENANY: They're attacking.

LEMON: Bob, do you - do you understand what I'm saying here?

CUSACK: Yes.

LEMON: He says the cartoonist is using his kids and now - in some sort of odd, back-ended way, is he now using his kids as well? That's my question. That's what it appears to be if he's asking people for money off of this ad.

CUSACK: Don, I think that's a fair question. And I've seen a lot of chatter on that on Twitter. You know, when you -- whether it's people in Washington with Congress or certainly on a campaign trail, there are people on campaigns who are like, thinking, how can I use this controversy to make money? And this is one of those situation where that's the political system, is that it's all about the money and he's certainly using this to make more money, but maybe he thinks it's that, well, they've already done it, it's gotten some attention, but is he bringing more attention to it by seeking money? Of course he is.

LEMON: Yes. All right. Let's get to the polls now. Donald Trump, 39 percent of the GOP vote with 40 days left until the Iowa caucuses. Many establishment Republicans - I just spoke to one yesterday - they think GOP voters will come around to who they think is more - a more viable candidate. But that - that does not look like it is happening now, Kayleigh. What is a GOP to do?

MCENANY: You know, the GOP is coalescing around Donald Trump, and historically we see that the frontrunner in December ends up being the nominee. And Republicans are getting to the point where they're accepting trump. And really the only way that - that I see Donald Trump falter -

LEMON: Wait - wait, wait, hang on, Kayleigh. Not to be argumentative, I just want to clear -

MCENANY: Sure.

LEMON: You think the GOP is really - because the Republican establishment doesn't appear to want Donald Trump as a nominee. The voters - the GOP voters seem to, but I - the Republican establishment doesn't seem to want him.

MCENANY: Sure, but the Republican establishment, they're a small contingency with a very loud voice and they're going to have to accept the will of the American people. Whether they like it or not, Donald Trump has a 21-point lead now.

LEMON: True.

MCENANY: He has a 17 point lead. When you average every single poll together, they have to accept Donald Trump or else, you know, they're criticizing their voting base. And this is why - you know, when Jeb Bush considered - came out and said that Trump is not a serious candidate, that he's a performer, that is directly insulting Republican voters. That is directly insulting the people who you purport to represent. You know, it's unacceptable and the establishment needs to back off because Donald Trump will be the nominee most likely. If not him, then Ted Cruz. And if they don't coalesce around him, they're going to be expelled from the party.

LEMON: Yes. And speaking of Jeb Bush, you mentioned, I've got to ask you, Bob, he's now behind Rand Paul.

CUSACK: Yes.

LEMON: I mean, in that territory. Is he going to get booted from the main stage, do you think, at the next debate?

CUSACK: That's a real possibility and that's what Trump predicted during the last debate. I mean Bush, this is a - he had a decent debate the last time. Certainly his best debate. But we're not seeing it in the numbers. Bush is going to have to do very well in New Hampshire. He's not going to do well in Iowa. And he's not doing well in New Hampshire right now. So the pressure is really picking up on - on Jeb Bush. And, I mean, listen, if you look at the Trump's numbers, it was the summer of Trump, it was the autumn of Trump and now it's a Trump Christmas. He is dominating the field and the establishment is freaking out.

[14:10:24] LEMON: Yes. Yes, they are. I'm not sure if you're on my show tonight. I don't know. I have one show - I get one show in front of the other. But, listen, Merry Christmas if I don't see you between now and then. Thank you, guys.

CUSACK: Merry Christmas, Don.

LEMON: Appreciate it. Appreciate it.

Up next -

MCENANY: Merry Christmas, Don.

LEMON: Thank you.

Up next, happening right now, demonstrators from Black Lives Matter converging on the nation's largest mall. This after the group's organizers were hit with a restraining order barring some of them from taking part in that rally.

Also, Disneyland trip denied. Two Muslim families from the U.K. saying they suspect that their plans to fly to Los Angeles were rejected because of their religion and suggests a tone of American politics may have played a role.

And the woman accused of running down pedestrians on the Vegas Strip makes her first court appearance. Her attorney suggesting it may not have been intentional. You're going to hear what they had to say when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: We've been telling you about what's going on at the Mall of America. The protests will go today at the Mall of America, but without three Black Lives Matter leaders. A Minnesota judge late Tuesday granted the mall's restraining order request against the activists, but she would not order the group to cancel its protest. The rally is now getting underway. CNN cameras were not allowed inside. I should tell you that the east side of the mall is shutting down. It's not clear what additional steps the mall has taken to curtail the protests, but we are getting report that other parts will be closing. One of the managers at one of the stores says, following the mall's instructions to close her doors until the protesters are over. So I imagine several stores there are getting ready for this.

[14:15:19] So the scene, check it out, this is last December when nearly 2,000 protesters took over part of the mall at the height of the holiday shopping season. They with rallying against the police killing of several unarmed African-American men. This year's protest revolves around the recent shooting death of Minneapolis resident Jamar Clark (ph). The Mall of America says it is satisfied with that rulings, but one of the Black Lives Matter leaders, who was banned from the protest, says there are plenty more organizers to replace him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUSAN GAERTNER, ATTORNEY, MALL OF AMERICA: We are very pleased with the ruling. The court, yet again, said the law of Minnesota protects private property owners such as the Mall of America.

MICHAEL MCDOWELL, BLACK LIVES MATTER: There's so many of us that are, you know, stepping up and doing the work that, you know, like, you can take 10 of us out and we have ten more that are able to step into that place and like do the exact same thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: CNN legal analyst and defense attorney - criminal defense attorney Mark O'Mara is with me now.

So, Mark, just as we hear -

MARK O'MARA, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hi, Don. LEMON: They're taking some precautions. We're also being told that some of the officers were searching bags upon entering the mall. They said that the traffic in the mall today is down. And, again, they were shutting some of the doors. So my question to you is - I want to say that CNN did invite a representative of the mall to join us. They decline. Also we invited some of the Black Lives Matter folks on. They declined as well because I guess they're concerned now about, you know, getting in trouble for doing this. But what's your reaction to the ruling, Mark?

O'MARA: Well, first of all, the ruling was a nice way to try and, you know, split the baby in half. Allowing the protest to go forward was I think tantamount. They had to do that - or paramount. They had to do that because we do have the right to protest and we do have the right to speak. It's that First Amendment that is one of the foundations, the cornerstones of who we are and the way we get to demand redress against the government.

So, with that as a premise, this isn't even a question yet about Black Lives Matter, do they get to protest. We've had cases in the U.S. Supreme Court and other courts about the Nazi party being able to protest, the Klu Klux Klan being able to protest. We've even had a situation where people wanted to protest against veterans at veterans' funerals and we had to allow a certain amount of that. So this is a question of our right to freedom of assembly.

Now, does it happen on private property? I'm a little bit concerned with the judge's decision. Respect it, but I'm concerned with it to say that a mall is now private property. Granted it is owned by one person and one conglomerate. I get that. But a mall has now taken the place of the town square in American life. So if you're going to have a conversation, you're going to talk to your peers, to other citizens. You're now not going to do it at the town square like we did 200 years ago. You're going to do it at a mall. So I like the fact that they allowed the protest to go forward.

Now, I'm sorry that people don't like the fact of what Black Lives Matter has to say or how they say it, but this is a conversation, Don, you and I have talked about this for a couple of years. These are very difficult conversations. Everybody wants to hide from them. We don't want to talk about it. We don't want to talk about it around Christmastime. This is exactly when we need to talk about it is today.

LEMON: You read my mind. I was just thinking about that last night, that when you go home to your family, it's probably when you should talk about it because otherwise you won't get the chance to do it. I know it is uncomfortable.

I have to ask you, being the legal person here though, you know, given the judge's - it's, like I said, it's a limited ruling, a limited ruling.

O'MARA: Yes.

LEMON: What does that mean for the mall security? What does it mean for the protesters? Are they confused in a way? Like, we - yes, we can protest? Or we can't protest? Yes, we can stop these people and we can't. It's - it's a little bit confusing.

O'MARA: It is very confusing. And I'm only hoping that that confusion is going to be dealt with, with a better perspective than was dealt with, with the request for a TRO, because what I don't want to happen is -

LEMON: So should they let them in?

O'MARA: I think they should let them in. I - here's what I think should have happened. The Mall of America should have said to Black Lives Matter, and by that matter anybody else who wants to come in and protest, please, let's do it this way. Let's have some ground rules. Here's the area. Here's the way to do it. Here's a place - not too much limitations, but a cooperative agreement, just like we did in every other protest we've seen where there's a place to do it, there's a place not do it, there's a way to do it, a way not to do it. But the idea of saying, thou shalt not come here was stupid. I think it was ill-advised. Whatever lawyer they listened to who said, let's try and keep them out. Not only do they focus the nation's attention on it, but now we've make Mall of America, who could have been a positive influence in this occurrence, look like the bad guys that they didn't have to. This is a - an event, a protest, a conversation that has to occur. They could have said yes instead of no.

[14:20:08] LEMON: I wonder if this - you said that the mall has now - is now the public square in many ways. Does this set some sort of precedent or any - when it comes to how we can gather and protest?

O'MARA: Well, you know, I think it should. And it certainly is a compromise. This is not well settled law. There's no question that that mall is private property. But it's private property that they invite everybody to for the hours they invite them to it. They - why is Black Lives Matter, Don, much different than the Salvation Army when they are there with their bell saying, please give to our Christian organization? Much less controversial, but the idea of free speech is not dependent upon the message, it's dependent upon the fact that we allow the messenger to say this stuff, even if we don't like what they say. And that's where the mall missed the ball in this case.

LEMON: But, Mark, you know as an attorney that, you know, the Salvation Army probably got a permit. They asked the store's permission, blah, blah, blah, the mall management and they gave it to them. But in this case, nobody's asking for permission here. They just want to come in and do their thing. That's one of the distinctions. I've got to go, Mark.

O'MARA: Agreed. And I agree.

LEMON: All right.

O'MARA: And the rules should be followed on both sides. I agree with that.

LEMON: Thank you.

O'MARA: Thanks, Don. LEMON: Thank you. Merry Christmas. See you soon. To your lovely wife as well.

O'MARA: Merry - same to you.

LEMON: All right.

Up next, tragedy on the Vegas Strip. The woman accused of mowing down dozens of people on a busy Vegas sidewalk appearing in court today. Why her attorney says, you know, it's too early to know what her motivations were.

Plus, the NFL playing defense today after ESPN reports the league backed out of paying for a study of traumatic brain injuries. That story coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:25:26] LEMON: Welcome back, everyone.

The woman accused of intentionally plowing her car into a crowd on the Las Vegas Strip has just appeared before a judge for the first time. Her name is Lakeisha Holloway. She is charged with murder with a deadly weapon. She's also charged with child abuse and leaving the scene of an accident. One person was killed, 37 others injured. I want to turn now to CNN's legal analyst and defense attorney Joey Jackson. Also with me, CNN's Stephanie Elam in Las Vegas.

First out to Stephanie outside of that courthouse.

What happened in court, Steph?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: She was not in there long at all, Don. I was in the courtroom when Lakeisha Holloway made her first appearance in court. I'd say she was in there for probably two minutes. She was very quiet, reserved. She answered the judge, "yes, ma'am," "yes, ma'am." I think I heard her say it twice and that was it.

What they have decided to do is go ahead and ask for the preliminary hearing to not happen until after this 30-day status check, which means the next time she'll be in court, when we may hear her plea, will be in January, January 20th. So at this point we haven't heard from what she's going to say, but what we have heard is from her lawyers after her time in court, giving a perspective of where her mental state might be. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH ABOOD, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: She's distraught. I mean, this is tragic for everybody involved. And as the days go by and the gravity of what happened sinks in, I expect that she's going to be in a very difficult mental state. We want her family to reach out to us. We want to try to get the best picture we can of who this young lady is and what the circumstances are that put her in this position. SCOTT COFFEE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: She's under surveillance. She's got

guards. There's medical personnel, mental health personnel that are nearby. She's in a unit where she can't hurt herself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ELAM: And they also said that she is distraught about the fact that she can't see her daughter. They say she's a loving mother and she is concerned about this, but they also acknowledge the fact that her life is going to be different from here on out. They also said that it's likely that she will plead not guilty when it comes time for that, Don.

LEMON: What a bizarre story. Still so many unanswered questions, Joey. Her motive remains a mystery. But this crime is clear and it is - it's - I mean it's brutal, right?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Oh, absolutely.

LEMON: How would you defend her?

JACKSON: You know, I think attorneys, Don, have to take one of two tacks. The first thing is to explain what happened and the second thing is to justify what happened. What am I speaking of? In terms of explaining what happened, they're going to say that this was an accident. It was simply negligence, which is carelessness. And we see the illusion of that because he was talking about, that is Abood her attorney, that she was distraught. So that sets up sort of, OK, she's distraught, not paying attention. If it's an accident, that's misdemeanor because in, you know, speaking in English, that's six months jail. It's vehicular manslaughter, which is a misdemeanor, versus something drastically different, like intent and murder.

LEMON: Intentional, yes.

JACKSON: So if you explain it, which they could do, that's what you're looking at. Whether that flies with a jury is another matter. The second way, Don, they can go about this is to justify it. Now, obviously, this is not justifiable. But when you go to someone's mental state, and if her mental state is such that she just didn't appreciate the nature and the consequences, she was catatonic, she was suffering from some temporary delusion, that gets you into insanity and that gets you out of criminality.

LEMON: And -

JACKSON: So those are the two ways.

LEMON: Her background, her mental state.

JACKSON: Right.

LEMON: Stephanie said, you know, her mental state was going to come into play obviously here. Also, her circumstances probably surrounding where she lived, if she was homeless or not, because, Stephanie, there is some back-and-forth about whether she was homeless. What are you hearing? Was that talked about today at all?

ELAM: No, it was not talked about today. Today's session inside the court was literally I would say about two minutes long. But we have heard that police believe she was living out of her car here in Vegas for about a week before this incident happened with her young daughter in the back of the car, they think going from parking garage to parking garage. They don't believe that she actually had an address here, that she came from Oregon at some point. Why she came here, that's still not clear. Many, many questions and many gray areas because, also, remember, she left the scene but she immediately drove around the corner to another casino where she talked - parked her car, went up to the valet, told them what happened and then asked for that valet to call the cop. She has no criminal record beforehand. So this is going to play into how they build this case, saying this is not someone who has a history of doing this.

LEMON: Right.

ELAM: So how does this works? So that's - we're seeing more of how the defense is looking to build their case here.

LEMON: Hey, quickly, you mentioned the daughter. She's distraught about seeing her daughter. What's happening with the daughter? Where is she? Who's taking care of her?

[14:30:9] ELAM: Our understanding is that she is in protective custody. That family members are looking to try to get in --