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Defense: Gray Spoke of Prior Back Problem; Attorney: "Affluenza" Mom Didn't Violate Any Laws; Trump Wraps Up 2015 Slamming Rivals. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired January 01, 2016 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00] BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: This is a 1991 here on CNN actually. Let's watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY KING, CNN HOST: You knew what it was?

BILL COSBY, COMEDIAN: Spanish fly was the thing that all boys from age 11 to death. We will be searching for Spanish fly.

And what was the old -- the old story was if you took a little drop, it was the head of the pin, and put it in the drink.

KING: Coca-Cola, it doesn't matter.

COSBY: It doesn't -- and the girl would drink it and then, hello, America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: OK. So, Jean, for our viewers, put those comments into context.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Spanish fly is eluding to drugs and women and woman after woman, including Andrea Constand is alleging she was drugged according to the criminal complaint and she then became the victim of a sexual assault, and he not only said that to Larry King, it was also in the comedy routine, part of a record album from the 1970s I believe.

So, obviously, one would say state of mind of Bill Cosby that this was important to him in many respects.

KEILAR: I interviewed, Joseph, Monique Pressley, Bill Cosby's lawyer yesterday, she said that proves nothing, the Quaaludes from decades ago prove nothing. This is -- you know, she sort of made this case that that was years ago, it is irrelevant.

But I assume that you do not see that and that is this some evidence, even his comments about Spanish fly that you may use in your lawsuit?

JOSEPH CAMMARATA, ATTORNEY FOR 7 ACCUSERS SUING COSBY FOR DEFAMATION: Well, first of all, can you expect that Monique Pressley is going to say his comments have any relevance or that it is important or that it is detrimental to Bill Cosby? Remember, you're talking to his defense lawyer.

KEILAR: Of course, obviously.

CAMMARATA: What is she going to say? Anything but that.

So, that means nothing. That's a zero.

In terms of whether or not it's important, of course it is. This is a man that's fixated with this mythical drug that can somehow alter the minds of unsuspecting women so he could have his way with them. That was his routine. And he wrote in a book of his, when he writes and speaks in his comedy routines, he is writing and speaking from real life true experiences that he has had.

So the use of Quaaludes, which is known to be a controlled substance that has very serious deleterious effect on one's ability to maintain their consciousness was used by Bill Cosby, and he admitted to using it to one of the seven women I am representing in Massachusetts, Therese Serignese.

Yes, she took, and then she became incapacitated. She maintains she didn't give consent to have sex with Bill Cosby. Bill Cosby testified he could not say whether or not she consented.

KEILAR: Yes.

CAMMARATA: So, the use of this Spanish fly, the use of drugs, that's all relevant to the issues at hand because many of the women, of the seven that I represent, and the other 40 some odd that have come out have said they have been drugged, and then following that have been sexually abused and assaulted. So, it remains to be seen who is telling the truth.

KEILAR: All right. Joseph Cammarata, thank you so much for being with us. Jean, really appreciate you as well. Happy New Year to you both.

CASAREZ: Happy New Year.

CAMMARATA: Happy New Year.

KEILAR: And next, there are some new details that are emerging in the case of the affluenza teen who is caught in Mexico after breaking his probation and skipping the country. We're now learning what he did during his time on the run.

Plus, defense attorneys for officers in the Freddie Gray case filed a motion, claiming that Freddie Gray may have had a pre-existing back injury before his fatal encounter with police. We'll have more on that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:37:22] KEILAR: The Freddie Gray case in Baltimore in nearing a crucial phase. New questions about Gray's health are being raised, just ten days before the trial begins for the police officer who drove the van where Gray was fatally injured. Defense attorneys for Officer Caesar Goodson say Freddie Gray complained about back problems weeks before he got into the police van and suffered a spinal cord injury on April 12th of last year.

Officer Goodson is charged with degree depraved heart murder. That's him there on the right in this series of photos of Baltimore police officers. The defense cites a recently unsealed police document that states Gray allegedly mentioned his back pain when he met with Baltimore police less than two weeks before his April arrest.

I want to bring in CNN's Miguel Marquez. We also have Baltimore defense attorney and CNN contributor Andrew Alperstein to talk with us.

Miguel, tell us about Gray's meeting with police almost two weeks before his controversial arrest and also the internal police document that describes it?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it is an interesting tale. This is a document that arose out of Gray giving information to the police regarding a robbery after Mr. Gray, this was on March 31st, 2015, Mr. Gray was arrested and then injured in that van on April 12th, about two weeks later. He died April 19th. The riots or worst of it was on the 27th of April.

And then on May 1st, the officer who wrote this internal memo basically said his memory was jogged by all of the conversation about it in the press about Freddie Gray, he remembered this detail that Gray told him that he had either, quote, a bad back, or quote, had suffered a back injury. But there was no mention of how serious it was, or what it was.

Prosecutors, basically defense attorneys want all of Mr. Gray's medical records in the trial. Prosecutors are saying, look, it's not necessary. This wasn't serious information and Mr. Gray died from a neck injury, not a back injury. So, all of this is beside the point, Brianna.

KEILAR: And is this something that the defense could use that would be relevant, that could be used very effectively?

ANDREW ALPERSTEIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, potentially. I think what's happened here is that this report came up middle of the first trial, Officer Porter whose trial completed a couple weeks ago, there was a hung jury. During the course of the trial, issues centered around what the officers knew and when.

And the medical information is being used and the science that exists in medicine to show how somebody's body would react to a certain injury and how quickly their systems would start shutting down was used as the basis for the state's medical information to say this is when the officers would have seen what they saw.

[14:40:04] Remember, this isn't a case about what somebody actually did to him but it is more about the officer's failure to do things, failure to provide medical care, failure to provide a seat belt. And with this failure to provide medical care, the critical issue is

what do the officers know when? And as to the driver who's coming up soon for trial as Miguel was pointing out, the issue when and what they knew becomes critical. So, if he had a pre-existing injury, that's something the defense is screaming about saying we're entitled to have this.

It came out middle of the first trial, so the defense couldn't have their medical people look at it in advance. Medical people for the defense already formed their opinions. The states' doctors say it has no relevance anyway because as Miguel said it is the back, not the neck. We saw what we saw on the autopsy.

KEILAR: Could this help the defense team get access to Gray's medical records? It's interesting the prosecution is saying, you know, you don't need those.

ALPERSTEIN: Well, the interesting thing is they asked for it before and the judge told them no. Now, next Wednesday there will be another hearing about them asking again saying, we didn't know this before, so we want to get his prior medical records. They're right now fishing around to see what they can find. Once they find it, then they'll know what to do with it. But right now, we are in discovery phase, not whether it will be used in trial.

KEILAR: And, Miguel, just to be clear, this memo a police officer wrote, this was done sort of thinking -- this wasn't something that was filed at the time, right? This was filed later?

MARQUEZ: It does not appear to be part of the actual investigation. It was after the fact on May 1st, this police officer --

KEILAR: After the death.

MARQUEZ: After the death, after the rights on an unsolicited basis sent this to different superiors in Baltimore police department saying, hey, I just remembered this, here it is. Prosecutors came across it, discarded it.

Defense lawyers want to dig into this. They're using it to get at the medical records. What they'll find is the big question.

KEILAR: All right. Miguel, Andy, thank you so much to both of you.

ALPERSTEIN: Thank you.

KEILAR: And next, what the affluenza fugitive allegedly did during his time on the run, and how his mother who is back now in the U.S. is defending herself.

Plus, my next guest knows a lot about affluenza. He wrote a book on the topic. He says it isn't the first time the defense has been used.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Fugitive Tonya Couch, mother of the so-called affluenza teen, is back now in the U.S., charged with helping her felon son flee. But her attorney is now speaking out, saying her client did not violent any laws. While legal experts say lawyers for her son Ethan who is still in Mexico may be attempting to stall his return to the U.S. by claiming human rights violations by Mexican authorities.

You remember, Ethan's drunk driving case sparked outrage when he was sentenced to probation, not prison, for hitting and killing four people in 2013, injuring several more. A judge deemed him too rich and too spoiled to know right from wrong.

Joining me now is John De Graaf. He's co-author of the book "Affluenza", co-producer of "Affluenza", the documentary for PBS.

So, John, we're getting some new details now about their time, the Couches' time on the lam in Mexico. "The Dallas Morning News" speaking to an employee at the hideout in Mexico. And the employee told them that one night, Ethan went to a strip club. The manager followed him to the hotel to have his mom pay for his bar tab.

So, you look at that, you think there's no question that this is a kid who has a case of affluenza.

JOHN DE GRAAF, CO-AUTHOR, "AFFLUENZA: HOW OVER CONSUMPTION IS KILLING US": Well, yes, I think he is an extreme case of affluenza. I think this is also a case of the golden rule in action, namely that whoever has the gold makes the rules. This kid really got off clearly because of the wealth and influence his family had and connections with the judge.

And, you know, I certainly don't justify that. I don't think affluenza defense is a decent defense. I used the term more in a sociological sense, that it's a larger disease of materialism in our society.

KEILAR: So, explain that even in sort of -- I mean, this as you say a very extreme case. But what are the hallmarks, the lack of consequences? What do you think?

DE GRAAF: I think hallmarks of affluenza are sort of obsession with the idea that the goal in life is material, that is to have as much stuff as possible, we see it in a societal basis, the idea we have to have the grossest domestic product, the most money. He gets the most -- dies with the most toys wins.

This concept that the aim in life is have ever more stuff. I think this is a disease. It's a sickness. I think it has spread quite a bit through our society, and Ethan Couch represents an extreme case of that.

He also represents the fact that if you have a lot of money in society, you can avoid consequences and, you know, maybe even a better example would be the bankers who speculated away all kinds of funds prior to the financial crisis in 2008 using other people's money and yet not a single one of those has gone to jail yet to my knowledge.

KEILAR: I know you're right on that. Back to the Couches, this move by Ethan Couch where he is trying to

avoid deportation from Mexico to the U.S., trying to stay in a Mexican jail, what do you think about that?

DE GRAAF: Well, sometimes heard about Mexican jails, maybe it would be nice if he had to spend a little time there to reflect on what had happened.

The real question here is somebody has to be held responsible. If Ethan Couch has affluenza, and has no sense of consequences for any of these things because he wasn't brought up to know right from wrong, then why were his parents not prosecuted? Why didn't somebody do jail time for the horrific crime of essentially murdering four people with vehicle homicide?

KEILAR: Is this sort of typical? I mean, you have the proprietor of this strip club following Ethan Couch back to his hotel so mommy can pay for his strip club bar tab, which is -- I mean, that's something else, right? This really close mother-son relationship, is that something that's typical in these cases of affluenza that you've studied?

DE GRAAF: I don't know because I haven't thought of it as much in a very psychological sense. I've thought of it more as a social disease, as I mentioned. But it does seem that this kind of enabling on the part of parents, and particularly rich parents, and I don't want to by that suggest that all rich parents treat their kids that way.

KEILAR: Sure.

DE GRAAF: I don't think that's the case at all.

[14:50:01] But in this case, it's clear. You can't make this stuff up. I mean, this is such an extreme case.

KEILAR: Oh, unfortunately -- oh, bummer. I think we just lost his satellite signal.

We were wrapping that up, but fascinating interview there with John De Graaf, thank you so much to him for that.

Next, a political message in the sky. Someone hired sky writers to slam Donald Trump. This is a message actually above the Rose Bowl parade -- the Rose Parade. You really have to see this what the message said. We have it next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Three, two, one! Happy New Year!

(END VIDEO CLIP) KEILAR: That is Donald Trump and his family ringing in the New Year at his massive Mar-A-Lago estate in ritzy Palm Beach, Florida. But the GOP front-runner couldn't let 2015 come to an end without a few eleventh hour insults of his rivals.

Trump held his last campaign events of 2015 in Hilton Head, South Carolina. His talking points -- Jeb Bush, Hillary Clinton and non- aerosol hairspray.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I look at this guy Jeb Bush. He spent $59 million on his campaign and he's down in the grave. He's nowhere.

Every time I turn on an ad I see an ad about Trump. I mean, it's not that bad of an ad either. It's like, you know, if you're going to do an ad, do an ad.

Look, he's a low energy person, let's face it. It bothers me when I see a guy spending $60 million on ads against me a lot of it, right? I say why is he doing this? Doesn't he have something better? He should go home.

Low energy can be applied to Hillary. I just don't like to use the same thing twice on one of my enemies, right?

[14:55:02] Because I consider them enemies. We view this as war. Don't we view this as war? It's war.

Last week, she's been hitting me really hard with the women card, OK? Really hard. And I had to say, OK, that's enough, that's enough.

And we did a strong number. She's not going to win.

By the way, I love the concept. I love, love, love having a woman president. Can't be her. She's horrible.

Obama doesn't want to hit them too hard because he's afraid he's going to pollute the atmosphere. No, this is serious. So, he's got a problem with the carbon footprint. You can't use hairspray because hairspray is going to affect the ozone.

I'm trying to figure out, let's see, I'm in my room in New York City. And I want to put a little spray so that I can -- right? Right?

(APPLAUSE)

But here where they don't want me to use hairspray. They want me to use the pump, because the other one -- which I really like better than going bing, bing, bing, and then it comes out in big globs, right, and stuck in your hair and say, oh, my God, I have to take a shower again. My hair's all screwed up.

He said even if you don't win what you've done is incredible. You've totally changed the landscape of politics. I said, you don't understand. You don't understand. If I don't win,

I will consider this, and I mean this, a total and complete waste of time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Well, you had to look up to see it. It was a message in the skies above the Rose Parade in Pasadena, California. Take a look at this video. The message in the sky reads, quote, "America is great, Trump is disgusting, anybody but Trump."

Sky writers dashed out the message just as the last float left the gate.

Joining me on the phone we have CNN correspondent Sara Sidner in Los Angeles.

I know, Sara, that you were there at the parade. How many planes did it take to create this message in the sky? And did you get a sense from anyone about how they were responding to it?

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): People are going crazy on social media. That is very apparent. If you go on Twitter, you can't miss it at this point.

A lot of people didn't see it at first because the parade, as you mentioned, was kind of coming to its end. But the parade goes for about two miles. But we actually -- somebody tapped us on the shoulder and said, hey, what's going on.

And we looked up in the sky and I saw about six planes. And at first they were flying in perfect formation. I thought that maybe it was military planes. I wasn't sure.

And all of a sudden we saw it spewing out letters. And I thought what is it going to say? And then the message came.

You mentioned the message. We couldn't even get the entire message in a picture because it was so enormous. You can see this message from about a ten-mile radius. And of course it dissipates. And then they did it a second pass, they did it a second time.

So, you could see it while driving. You could see it far, far, far away from the parade. It was pretty impressive to a lot of people. A lot of people trying to figure out what it was going to say, and then we got different pieces from different people sending us tweets saying, oh, wait, here's the rest.

And then finally you could see the whole message, which was, you know, America is great, Trump is disgusting, anybody but Trump.

We also went online, Brianna, trying to figure out where this came from. Who is the group behind this? Is it one of his rivals or a super PAC or who is this?

And there is a website that has a lot of the same messages on that website. So, we're wondering if there's some correlation but haven't heard back from them -- Brianna.

KEILAR: So, we don't exactly know who's behind this but maybe some clues there. OK. Sara Sidner, thanks so much for that report. Rather odd story. Thank you so much.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

KEILAR: It is the top of the hour. I'm Brianna Keilar. And we are back now with our breaking news of a manhunt after a possible terror attack in Israel.

Two people were killed when a gunman opened fire on diners who sat outside a pub in Israel's capital. This happened in broad daylight, but this killer was actually able to get away. He's still on the loose.

And we now have some incredible surveillance video that gives us a glimpse of the shooter. Standing here next door in what appears to be a market, and then he puts his bag down on the shopping carts and steps out into the open and fires off round after round. The video shows a glimpse of the shooter. There's another video. Here's another perspective.

Right now on the phone is actually the woman who took some of those photos that you just saw of the aftermath of the shooting.

Megan Robertson is a senior producer at "The Huffington Post."

Megan, tell us, you were vacationing. Tel Aviv is a gorgeous place, very lively city. You were near this pub when you heard the gunshots. Walk us through what you saw next.

MEGAN ROBERTSON, THE HUFFINGTON POST: Right, exactly. Thank you, Brianna.

So, we were -- a friend and I were about a block and a half away or about half a block away, just finishing up buying a couple things and about to head actually to that area where the shooting happened when we heard the gunshots ring out.