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Saudi Arabia Severs Ties with Iran; Armed Protesters Take over Federal Wildlife Refuge Building in Oregon; Trump Slams Obama Who Met with A.G. over Gun Control; Obama Talks Gun Control. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired January 04, 2016 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:32:11] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: We are just past the bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

An important story here, this extremely volatile situation brewing in the Middle East, and I'm not talking about ISIS. I'm talking about Saudi Arabia canceling all flights to Iran, kicking out all Iranian diplomats. Hostilities reaching a head after Sunni- dominated Saudi Arabia executed 47 people in one day, including this prominent Shiite cleric, a move that infuriated Shia-dominated Iran. Sparking this is fiery protests erupting -- you see the pictures here -- at the Saudi embassy in Tehran. And the fallout moves beyond borders. Bahrain, Sudan, joining Saudi Arabia in severing all diplomatic ties with Iran.

So for the perfect perspective, CNN chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour, joins me now.

Christiane, can you first explain, we need to explain who this cleric was and if you think, given everything now that's happened, if the next step is military conflict.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's a really big leap to say military conflict between Iran and Saudi Arabia. I don't think that's in the cards at least no experts do, but this terrible, deep freeze in relations they've had for the last three decades-plus has reached yet another crisis point. It is not the first time they have broken off diplomatic relations but it happens at a time when the whole region is so unstable and where the region is meant to be trying to get together to defeat is. Saudi Arabia and Iran supporting different sides in Syria, for instance, in Iraq, in Yemen, and elsewhere. Back to who is this cleric? Sheikh Nimr al Nimr. He is a Shiite cleric, opposed to the Saudi monarchy, the dictatorship there and been an activist for more freedom for the Shiites because they are the minority in Saudi Arabia and they are and claim to be an oppressed minority. No one believes that he has any evidence of any violence or terrorism in his background but he was executed along with a number of convicted terrorists. So the death of the cleric is what angered Iran, on top of a whole load of other things that have been going on that angered Iraq. For Saudi Arabia's point, Iran they believe is just a meddler and is trying to take over a lot of what they call hegemonic power in the area and it's this manifest indication of this big rivalry, this regional rivalry between the two main axis of Islam, Shia dominated Iran and its allies, Sunni dominated Saudi Arabia, which is obviously the majority of Islamic faith, 85 percent of Muslims are Sunni. You have this massive butting of heads in a region already so volatile and at a time when the United States was hoping that Saudi Arabia, Iran and all other interested parties could get together to find a political way out of the war in Syria. So it's a big deal that they are at this terrible crisis point.

[14:35:11] BALDWIN: So then given this butting of heads and how you pointed out that Saudi Arabia and Iran obviously support different groups within what's happening in Syria, how then does this affect this U.S.-led coalition there and is?

AMANPOUR: Well, you know, it's really interesting to try to see how that will happen. Obviously Iran is not part of any military coalition, to the contrary, Iran backs the Syrian dictator, Bashar Assad, along with Hezbollah, along with Russia, of course. Saudi Arabia is much more on the side of those rebels who have taken up arms against Assad, but of course, many not just in the region, not just in Iran but around the world believe that certain elements of Saudi society and in the past the Saudi authorities have given way too much support, funded and allowed to operate all these extremists. Obviously, the ultimate manifestation of the Sunni extremism right now is ISIS, but all these extreme hard-line Salafis who are also in this fight in Syria. How to fix this is very unclear. I've just spoken to a leading Saudi insider who says that it might only be the United States who can come in and try to mediate this, but again, that's going to be very difficult.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: How? How?

AMANPOUR: Because the U.S. doesn't have -- well, the U.S. is a huge Saudi ally and gives Saudi Arabia a lot of money and a lot of arms but it doesn't have a huge diplomatic relationship with Iran beyond the Iran nuclear deal, and so it's very difficult. And let's not forget also that part of the crisis is because there are two Irans. You've got hard-line Iran. You've got those people who stormed the Saudi embassy in violation of international law and diplomatic immunity, mostly they are the so-called volunteers, the uniform militia known as the Basiej, who work with the Revolutionary Guard in Iran and backed by the supreme leader. They are the ones who did this.

At the same time, the more moderate president, Hassan Rouhani, and his foreign minister, Zarif, have condemned this publicly. There were umpteen press conferences and tweets and all these other things by President Rouhani and his ministers. And also Rouhani ordering the Iranian police to investigate and arrest those who stormed that embassy. They've made 40 arrests, according to Iranian media. And Rouhani has called what happened unacceptable and labeled the Iranians who stormed the embassy as extremists.

So there's a massive, you know, fight within Iran as well between extremists and more moderates, as well as this fight between Iran and Saudi Arabia, and this fight between Shia and Sunni Islam for control and for power and for majority influence in that region. BALDWIN: As always, Christian Amanpour, thank you very much.

We're watching closely along with you. Thank you.

Coming up next, more on our breaking news here. These armed activists who have taken over this federal building in Oregon, as they've challenged the government over land. Just listed their demands. But my next guest asks, why isn't everyone calling these people terrorists? We'll discuss that. Back after this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:41:47] BALDWIN: Let's get you back to what is happening in Oregon right now. Moments ago, we heard from this group behind this armed takeover of the federal building there. Here they were.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMMON BUNDY, RANCHER: You have asked us for what is our name, and other than just citizens that care and feel like it's time to we make a stand to protect our human rights, we didn't know what to say but we felt that we'd give ourselves a name so we could be supported that way and be more organized in that effort, and that would be Citizens for Constitutional Freedom. Our purpose, as we have shown, is to restore and defend the Constitution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: My next guest wonders why they have not been labeled as insurgents or terrorists.

She is Janell Ross, a reporter at "The Washington Post.

Janell, thank you for joining me.

JANELL ROSS, REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Happy to be here.

BALDWIN: You make an excellent point but, I don't know if you were watching, we took it live. Here you have this group, apparently now has given themselves a name. I talked to someone who lives in the area and they're like, we don't really know who these people are, they're armed to the teeth, hunkered down in the federal building which is illegal, holding a news conference. Is this a little bizarre to you?

ROSS: All fairness to the people assembled and under a newly announced name there in Oregon, they are American citizens and they have the right to protest and assemble and exercise their right to assemble. What probably makes the situation most noteworthy and different whether acknowledged or not, at least some of the people are armed. In fact, as they have sought to, I suppose, explain conditions there in Oregon, many are heavily armed and prepared to stay in place for years, and said they would be prepared to die in the event that someone tried to come in and remove them. That is several steps above a peaceable protest to which they do have a right.

BALDWIN: To your point, why aren't they being labeled terrorists? Why?

ROSS: In all fairness, I think there are many labels that might be applicable here. I think the real question is, why is there such speed to label, such as terrorists or thug or any number of labels, those involved in protests or even those interlopers on a peaceful protest I guess or on Americans' TV screens. At the same time, this seems to be this reticence and sort of slow pace at which we arrive at the point at which for instance in South Carolina after events there last year, a mass shooting, there was extended debate whether that was a racial crime and whether or not that was domestic terrorism.

Meanwhile, we have a significant issue in this country with domestic terrorism. It outpaces slightly Islamic terrorism, which we spend a lot more time talking about. And then therefore I'm saying to you that, again, there may be many words that are applicable and reasonable here. Some people may feel the proper word for what's happening in Oregon is terrorism, perhaps sedition, insurrection, but we don't use that word because we're talking about white Americans presumed to be innocent, presumed to be individuals with their own minds and their own opinions that don't apply to an entire group, and we certainly don't assume them to be violent from the get-go.

[14:45:48] BALDWIN: I think words are important from a law enforcement and a charging perspective and a societal perspective. I want to quote you, because you make this point, "It is hard to imagine that none of the words, particularly "insurrection" or "revolt" would be avoided if, for instance, a group of armed black Americans took possession of a federal or state courthouse to protest the police. Black Americans outraged about the death of a 12-year-old at the hands of police or concerned about the absence of a conviction in the George Zimmerman case have been frequently and inaccurately lumped in with criminals and looters." You make the point, if it was a group of Muslims, this would be a totally different story.

ROSS: I think so. It seems based on recent events that, at minimum, the progress at which we would get from wondering what happened and what might be motivating these events to a series of very serious and some cases deeply insulting labels being applied to people automatically because of who they are, not because of what they are doing.

BALDWIN: Janell Ross, thank you for taking the time, with "The Washington Post." I appreciate it.

Coming up next, right now, President Barack Obama meeting with Attorney General Loretta Lynch, discussing what executive actions he can take regarding gun control in this country. Republican candidates going off on this potential move. We expect to hear from the president any moment.

And a young mayor is assassinated hours after taking office, killed in front of her family. Was her murder some kind of warning? Those details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [14:50:30] BALDWIN: Right now, President Obama is making good on his promise to put gun control at the top of his agenda before he leaves office next year. Moments ago, the president began a meeting with his attorney general ahead of the FBI and other Justice Department officials here. They are meeting to map out exactly what executive action the president can take, bypassing Congress, to keep guns out of the hands of people who just shouldn't have them.

This morning on CNN, Donald Trump slammed the move.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & CEO, TRUMP ORGANIZATION (voice-over): Pretty soon you won't be able to get guns. It's another step in the way of not getting guns. It's supposed to be negotiated. You're supposed to cajole, get people in a room, you're supposed to deal with them. You have the Republicans, you have Democrats, you have all these people that get elected to do this stuff and you're supposed to get together and pass a law. He doesn't want to do that because it's too much work, so he doesn't want to work too hard. He wants to go back and play golf.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's bring in our senior Washington correspondent, Joe Johns.

Joe Johns, talk to me about as we're waiting get a little bit of the video from the president, hear from him specifically, what exactly is the president looking to do?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, there's no way of telling how far the White House is going to go with this. We know the administration has expressed interest in expanding background checks for people trying to buy guns. One of the things apparently under consideration from CNN's reporting is an executive action clarifying language in the federal regulations that controls who has to get a license to sell guns and therefore is subject to the requirement to do background checks. So right now the regulations say you don't need a license unless you're in the business of selling guns for profit but it's not quite clear what "in the business for profit" means. Beyond that, as recently as last month, the administration expressed interest in a number of changes that might or might not require federal legislation, depending on how the White House decides to thread this needle, including preventing people who on no-fly lists from obtaining firearms, closing the so-called gun show loophole, an exemption from background checks on private sales of firearms, including the ones sold at gun shows. I think the consensus is anything the administration does with teeth on it is likely going to get tied up in the courts and the president only has a year in his term so a legal battle could mean nothing happens.

BALDWIN: I want to ask you about that. This is red meat on the trail for Republicans. We'll talk about that later as well.

Joe Johns, thank you very much, my friend. Let me let you all know this is huge here on CNN. President

Obama will be joining Anderson Cooper for a live town hall specifically on gun control Thursday night, 8:00 eastern, right here on CNN. And we will be there that afternoon at George Mason University in Virginia ahead of that big day here on CNN and for the country.

Coming up next, a young mayor assassinated hours after taking office, killed in front of her family. Hear who is being accused in her murder.

Plus, breaking news from Wall Street today. Look at this. The Dow plunging down 400 points. We're just a tick over an hour before the closing bell. We will hear who has investors very nervous on this first Monday of the New Year.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:56:50] BALDWIN: As promised, we were having a conversation with Joe Johns in Washington about specifically the executive action that the president will be making at some point with regard to gun control in this country. He was just meeting with U.S. Attorney General Loretta Lynch in Washington. Here's a look at that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Happy New Year, everybody.

Before the New Year, I mentioned that I had given charge to my attorney general, the deputy director at the ATF and personnel at my White House to work together to see what more we could do to prevent the scourge of gun violence in this country.

I think everybody here is all too familiar with the statistics. We have tens of thousands of people every single year who are killed by guns. We have suicides that are committed with firearms at a rate that far exceeds other countries. We have a frequency of mass shootings that far exceeds other countries in frequency, and although it is my strong belief that for us to get our complete arms around the problem, Congress needs to act.

What I asked my team to do is to see what more we can do to strengthen our enforcement and prevent guns from falling into the wrong hands, to make sure that criminals, people who are mentally unstable, and those who could pose a danger to themselves or others are less likely to get a gun.

And I have just received back a report from Attorney General Lynch, Director Comey, as well as Deputy Director Brandon, about some of the ideas and initiatives that they think can make a difference, and the good news is, is that these are not only recommendations that are well within my legal authorities and the executive branch, but there are also ones that the overwhelming majority of the American people, including gun owners, support and believe in. So over the next several days, we'll be rolling out these initiatives. We'll be making sure that people have a very clear understanding of what can make a difference and what we can do.

And although we have to be very clear that this is not going to solve every violent crime in this country, it's not going to prevent every mass shooting, it's not going to keep every gun out of the hands of a criminal, it will potentially save lives in this country, and spare families the pain and the extraordinary loss that they've suffered as a consequence of a firearm being in the hands of the wrong people.

[14:59:55] I'm also confident that the recommendations that are being made by my team here are ones that are entirely consistent with the Second Amendment and people's lawful right to bear arms.