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Obama to Announce Executive Action on Guns; Interview with Grover Norquist; One Month Until Primaries Begin; Diplomatic Fallout Spreads to Other Nations; Armed Oregon Protesters Release Demands; Asia-Pacific Stocks Struggle to Recover from Monday's Sell Off; Obama Taking Executive Action on Gun Control. Aired 1-2a ET

Aired January 05, 2016 - 01:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[01:00:01] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And it sort of shocks your system because you can't say, well, it's because they're that religion or that gender or that ethnicity. It's simply the love of money. So it fit in with what I had been doing academically earlier but it took it to a whole new level of this is not explained away by history. This is a persistent problem with human beings, and we have to fight it with every tooth and nail that we have.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHN VAUSE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: This is CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles.

Ahead this hour, Republicans already taking aim at U.S. President Barack Obama's executive action on guns. We'll break down the details of the plan.

Donald Trump reaching into his own pockets for the first time to get his message on to television. Fact checkers, though, already crying foul.

And we'll take you to the federal building that's been taken over by an armed group in Oregon. They claim they're not leaving any time soon.

Hello, and welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. Great to have you with us. I'm John Vause. NEWSROOM L.A. starts right now.

The White House is bypassing Congress in the battle over gun violence. After repeated initiatives stalled on Capitol Hill, President Barack Obama is set to announce executive actions that will, among other things, expand background checks. Republicans say he's overreaching. Mr. Obama insists he's not.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These are not only recommendations that are well within my legal authority and the Executive Branch, but they are also ones that the overwhelming majority of the American people, including gun owners, support and believe in.

I'm also confident that the recommendations that are being made by my team here are ones that are entirely consistent with the Second Amendment and people's lawful right to bear arms.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Michelle Kosinski has more now on what the president is planning.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: You look at this, and you can see the administration trying to make changes in every way possible because these are executive actions and not act of Congress. Immediately you see those limits that they are up against. I mean, they are presented as proposals or guidance or encouragements. By no means are these new laws.

The biggest deal is the background checks. The White House now says if you are in the business of selling guns, whether that means two guns a year or 200,000, whether you're selling them at gun show or on the dark Web, you need to register and all of your buyers need background checks.

There will be harsh penalties if you don't do that. But the big question is out there. How's the federal government going to make you register, and how they're going to track you down if you don't.

The White House also sent a letter now to every state governor, encouraging them to make sure more information goes into the background check system. Things like people who might be disqualified for mental illness or convictions for domestic violence, but again enforcement is a question.

The White House wants to beef up the background check system itself with more staffing, more funding. It wants a lot more funding for mental health treatment in this country, again, though, those are asks. And Congress would have to approve that funding.

Michelle Kosinski, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: President Obama will officially announce his new measures from the East Room of the White House Tuesday morning. But already there's been a tsunami of criticism from many opposed to gun controls like Grover Norquist who's best known as the president of the anti-tax group, Americans for Tax Reform, but he's also on the Board of Directors of the National Rifle Association. He joins us now from Washington.

Mr. Norquist, thanks for being with us. Over the weekend you tweeted this. "To understand what Obama wants in our future, watch the 'Star Wars' movies and imagine that only the Storm Troopers have guns." So let's take a look at what the president is actually proposing here.

All dealers selling guns at gun shows in stores and on the Internet, they are required to actually run background checks, get licenses of anyone buying a gun. He also wants extra manpower to process background checks. He's trying to develop a smart gun technology.

That's not exactly the Storm Troopers at the City Gate. It's more like an angry Ewok with a pointy stick, isn't it?

GROVER NORQUIST, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN FOR TAX REFORM: Well, you have to look at where he's trying to go and what he has suggested. The praise for the Australian approach which is confiscation. Hillary is calling for taxing guns which dates back to 1993, her congressional testimony to try and price guns out of the hands of lower income Americans.

It's the direction that's they're trying to go in, which includes confiscation. And they've not denounced what happened in Australia but spoke of it admiringly.

[01:05:09] VAUSE: As an Australian, as someone who was there during that period of time when the conservative prime minister, John Howard, embarked on that gun buy-back scheme and took I think it was 800,000 weapons out of circulation, that's has been a very successful program. If you look at it, there's not been one mass shooting in Australia since the Port Arthur massacre and the murder rate has gone down.

NORQUIST: Well, of course the United States is not Australia. And we don't want to be governed the way Australians are. We don't want guns confiscated here. But what we do know is in the last 20 years, the number of guns in the country is about doubled and gun -- has hit historic highs and violence has dropped in half. So as more Americans own guns, and of course one of the problems that Hillary Clinton and Obama has is that their understanding of America is rather old. 1993 when they were passing gun control, the assault weapons ban, and so on.

Since then, today, there are 12.8 million American citizens, more than 5 percent of the adult population, have a concealed carry permit. Can carry a gun on them any time they want to like a policeman in this country. That number has been jumping 1.5 million a year. The number I just gave you is a year old. So it's probably more like 14 million now. That number will go up again before the next election. And crime has fallen fastest in those states with the most concealed carry. Florida --

VAUSE: But causation is not actually -- is not actually an argument here because there are a lot of other factors involved. The economy was improving. You know, you can point to a whole host of issues which play into that. You can't just say people bought more guns, therefore it's more safe because I can say --

(CROSSTALK)

NORQUIST: No, no, actually --

VAUSE: In Australia, they don't have any guns, and the murder rate has gone down.

NORQUIST: Different country, different history. We're talking about --

VAUSE: Well, they're developed countries. They have similar heritage. But yes, please go on.

NORQUIST: And the crime rate and the murder rate in the United States began falling state by state when they passed concealed carry. It didn't happen in all 50 states at the same time. And it continued, even with lousy economies and good economies and bad economies over the last 20 years. So there is a direct correlation between more people with concealed carry permits, fewer rapes, fewer murders, fewer violent person-on-person crime.

VAUSE: But then why is it that there's an overwhelming number of people in this country, according to the opinion polls, both Democrats and Republicans, who want some kind of tougher gun control laws, whether it's more background checks, whether it's keeping guns out of the hands of the mentally ill? Even the U.S. Supreme Court in 2008 when it ruled in favor of the Americans' right to have weapons recognized that in that ruling, and this was Justice Scalia, that laws imposing conditions on the sale of guns can be consistent with the Second Amendment.

NORQUIST: Well, we have polls. They're called elections. And we have a majority of the House of Representatives and a strong majority in the Senate, including some Democrats, who consistently vote for the Second Amendment in the 50 states. More than 40 now have conceal carry issue laws. There about 90 pro-gun NRA supported bills passed last year. There's been a lot of talk about somehow maybe all of Bloomberg's lovely money flowing in to support gun control has changed the politics.

It hasn't. Bloomberg tried to buy two particular state Senate races in Virginia. Spent $3 million and lost on the gun issue. So this is an issue that when people vote, they tend to vote pro-Second Amendment, pro the ability of families to defend themselves and take care of themselves.

VAUSE: When 30,000 Americans are dying every year and 10,000 of that number are being killed in gun related homicides, you don't think that's a problem when the next nearest country has a fraction of that death toll?

NORQUIST: Well, obviously we'd like to see less crime, we'd like to see murderers and criminals put in jail for significant periods of time to take them off the streets. What the president has not been doing is enforcing those laws that do exist against criminals and making sure that violent criminals spend a great deal of time in prison and murderers get executed. That's not the position and it's not the direction the president is going.

VAUSE: Mr. Norquist, thank you for being with us. Appreciate your insights.

NORQUIST: You got it.

VAUSE: Please join CNN for a special look at "Guns in America" with U.S. President Barack Obama. Anderson Cooper hosts an exclusive one- hour live town hall event, see it Thursday night, 8:00 in Washington. That's 1:00 a.m. Friday in London for our international viewers. 9:00 Friday morning in Hong Kong. Only here on CNN.

[01:10:00] It's time for the music. Less than a month now until primary season in the U.S. presidential race, and Republican candidates are stepping up their rhetoric with bible verses and movie quotes.

And as Dana Bash reports, one candidate is even resorting to some artful use of footage from Morocco.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Temporary shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Donald Trump's first paid television ad is vintage Trump, blunt and provocative.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He'll quickly cut the head off ISIS and take their oil and he'll stop illegal immigration by building a wall in our southern border that Mexico will pay for.

BASH: And not without controversy. It turns out that footage of people flooding the border is not Mexico in the U.S. but Morocco in Spain. After the Web site PolitiFact uncovered the discrepancy, the Trump campaign insisted it was intentional to show the, quote, "severe impact of an open border." And on the forum, the reality star used to become the frontrunner, free media, Trump started 2016 as he ended 2015 -- going after both Clintons on CNN's "NEW DAY."

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She used the word sexist. I am sexist. And she was using very sort of derogatory terms. I said, how the hell can she do that when she's got one of the great women abusers of all time sitting at her house?

BASH: Trump rallied a huge crowd this weekend in Mississippi.

TRUMP: Outside we have thousands of people trying to get in.

BASH: But it is Iowa, just four weeks away, where Trump's fiercest competitor in the caucuses is spending his week.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is now the time that the men and women of Iowa step up.

BASH: Ted Cruz, on a 28-stop, six-day bus tour, is trying to turn his Iowa lead in the polls into an actual win next month, appealing to evangelicals by quoting scriptures.

CRUZ: Just pray and lift up this country. We stand on the promise of Chronicle II, 7:14, "If my people which are called by my name shall humble themselves and pray and turn from their wicked ways and seek my face, then I will hear their prayers."

BASH: And throwing down his best Clint Eastwood imitation.

CRUZ: When you hang a man, make sure to hang him high.

BASH: The Iowa caucuses are February 1st. New Hampshire's primary is the 9th. That's where Marco Rubio and Chris Christie started their days, making plays to be the alternative to Trump and Cruz.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The job is not described in the Constitution as entertainer-in-chief or commentator- in-chief or even frankly economist-in-chief. It is described as commander-in-chief.

If you can't be bothered to offer specifics on how you will perform that job, then quite frankly you don't deserve that job.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But anger is not a strategy and it won't make our government better and it won't make our country better, unless that anger is used to motivate us towards electing someone who actually can do the job.

BASH: Dana Bash, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: Seema Mehta joins us now. She's a legal writer for the "Los Angeles Times."

OK, 2016. Talking about the 2016 race. Hallelujah. Finally.

SEEMA MEHTA, POLITICAL WRITER, LOS ANGELES TIMES: It's finally here.

VAUSE: This has been the longest campaign ever and it hasn't even really started. What, Iowa is 28 days away?

OK. So Trump finished or began 2016 same way that he ended 2015 by attacking especially Bill Clinton.

MEHTA: Right.

VAUSE: He's gone up after him every single day for the last week or so. And this is what he is exceptionally good at. He may be fast and loose with the number of the facts and the truth.

MEHTA: Right.

VAUSE: Some people might say. May not be very good on policy but he's very good at picking a rival's weakness. Has he done that this time with the Clintons?

MEHTA: Well, we've seen this all along. I mean, he's apparently gone after several of his Republican rivals and very successfully, you know, just needled them, pushed them into, you know, pushing back and they've all fallen in the polls and he keeps on rising.

With Democrats I think it's a little bit different because there's a deep vein of support for Bill Clinton in the Democratic Party that goes I think even beyond Democrats' support of Hillary Clinton. I mean, there's a lot of fondness that -- in which people look back at the '90s so I don't know how effective this attack will be among Democratic voters but it's certainly a way to ump up his Republican supporters.

VAUSE: So keep them in line, because President Clinton did start the campaigning today by himself.

MEHTA: Right.

VAUSE: He was out there. He refused to respond to Trump's attack.

MEHTA: Right.

VAUSE: And also Hillary Clinton was given a chance to respond. And this is what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have adopted a New Year's resolution.

(LAUGHTER AND CHEERS)

CLINTON: I'm going to let him live in his alternative reality, and I'm not going to respond.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: A little slow but we got there in the end. OK. So do you think this is the strategy for Hillary Clinton now? There's nothing to be gained for her by going man-o-man with Donald Trump like that?

MEHTA: I mean, if anything, if Donald Trump continues these attacks and people starts seeing it as an attack on a woman it could actually work a little bit in her favor. And the other thing is, with Bill Clinton, he has to be careful with how he is on the trail. I mean, he's an incredibly gifted politician. Anybody on both sides of the aisle will admit that even if they totally don't agree with him. But we saw in 2008 when he was getting needled or when he was upset when then-Senator Barack Obama was on his rise, he lashed out.

[01:15:06] And he needs to avoid doing that. And we saw that in this campaign event today where he was -- he was, you know, cautious.

(CROSSTALK)

VAUSE: Very disciplined.

MEHTA: Yes.

VAUSE: He's on a tight leash. MEHTA: Exactly.

VAUSE: We have the campaign that's come after Donald Trump. You know, it's been pointed out in the video used in this campaign ad it's not actually the Mexican border. It's actually from somewhere in Europe.

MEHTA: Yes.

VAUSE: A Trump campaign manager told NBC News this. No, bleep, it's not the Mexican border but that's what our country is going to look like. This was 1,000 percent on purpose.

You know, in the past, wouldn't you say this have been a much bigger deal for other campaigns?

MEHTA: Right.

VAUSE: These guys seem to be Teflon.

MEHTA: Well, that's been the sort of amazing to watch. I can give you -- if you look back at what any political prognosticator or talking head said last year, you know, when Trump said something bad about Mexicans, that's would be the end. When he said something bad about Megyn Kelly and women, that would be the end. When he said something bad about John McCain, a war hero, that would be the end. And none of it mattered. I mean he has just tapped into something visceral that the electorate is feeling this time around where even if they don't necessarily agree 100 percent with what he's saying, they like that he's saying something, is not afraid to say what he wants to say.

VAUSE: It's the ability to turn negative into a positive is astounding.

MEHTA: Right. I have never seen anything like this. And it's pretty amazing to watch.

VAUSE: Yes. And it's only just getting started. Cue the music.

Seema, thanks for coming in.

MEHTA: Thank you.

VAUSE: Cheers.

Well, tensions are boiling over between Iran and Saudi Arabia. Up next, other Middle Eastern countries are choosing sides. We'll have more on the ongoing protests and the risks of escalation.

Plus, we'll go live to Beijing to check on Chinese stocks, see if they can rebound after a bad day on Monday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(SPORTS) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[01:20:32] VAUSE: Now to the escalating tensions in the Middle East. Iranians launched new protests in Tehran on Monday angry over Saudi Arabia's recent execution of a Shiite cleric. Saudi Arabia cut diplomatic ties after its embassy in Tehran was attacked over the weekend. Neither side is showing any signs of backing down and now Bahrain, Sudan and the UAE have also set it off and cut back diplomatic relations with Iran.

Joining us now with more on this, Fred Pleitgen in London.

So, Fred, I guess the question is what's the next move here for the Saudis? What happens next?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, for the Saudis, we're going to have to wait and see whether they're going to continue to up the ante. It was very interesting since they cut their diplomatic ties on Sunday to see what they did on Monday. And then to see them actually continue to escalate the situation where the Saudis came out and said that they believe that it was the Iranians who were undermining the security of Saudi Arabia, of course on the one hand with the storming of the embassy in Tehran.

But also of course with some of the political moves that the Iranians have been making in the region. The Iranians then cut off economic ties, stopped flights between Iran and Saudi Arabia. Also banned Saudi citizens from going to Iran. Still allowing hajj pilgrims from Iran to come to Saudi Arabia. So we'll wait and see whether there's more escalation and whether other predominantly Sunni countries will also join the Saudis in also cutting off ties, John.

VAUSE: Fred, we're also expecting a news conference from the Iranian government official. I guess, you've been to Tehran a lot. How often do these guys actually hold news conferences, and what are we expecting from this?

PLEITGEN: Well, it's a fairly regular occurrence to have news conferences by the government, specifically also by the Foreign Ministry as well. So this is something that does happen on a regular basis. Now it's interesting to have seen the reaction that came out of Tehran. On the one hand of course you still have the demonstrations that are going on. You still have the very public anger at the execution of the prominent Shia cleric Nimr al-Nimr, which in many ways of course is what set this diplomatic brawl in the first place.

But on the other hand you also have the Iranian government seemingly trying to, on an international level, conduct damage control. Now what they've done over the past 24 hours is that the Iranian ambassador to the U.N. has voiced regret over the fact that the Saudi embassy in Tehran was stormed. He assured the United Nations that the Iranians would continue to provide security for embassies in Iran and also that the Iranians would continue to arrest those who were behind the embassy storming. They've said that they've already arrested 40 people in conjunction

with this. And I can tell you from monitoring Iranian state media that there are other top level Iranian politicians, not the least of which is the president of the country, who has also condemned the fact that the embassy was stormed. So clearly the Iranians while on the one hand still very much taking a hard line vis-a-vis the Saudis, they are also to a certain extent acknowledging that the storming of the embassy is not something that was in their interests.

VAUSE: Yes, Fred, thank you. Fred Pleitgen there in our London bureau. Thanks, Fred.

Well, for more on tensions between Iran and Saudi Arabia, we go to Bob Baer here who's here in the studio. Our intelligence and security analyst.

OK, Bob, I guess everyone wants to know, where does this end? How does this end? How do they de-escalate this? Do they want to de- escalate this?

ROBERT BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST: I don't think it ends well. I mean, you know, we were -- this is the New Year. Let's make some predictions. The war in Syria. The Saudis are losing in a sense with the Russians coming in. The Iranians are fighting there as well as Hezbollah. A bunch of Iranian officers have just been killed. Hezbollah is losing a lot of people but they're not slowing down. And they intend to defeat the Salafis, which is supported by Saudi Arabia. So we've got this proxy war going on and what we're worried about, of course, is a direct conflict between Saudi Arabia and Iran.

VAUSE: Is this conflict that we're seeing now playing out very, very visibly between Iran and Saudi Arabia the result of something new or is it the result of an old conflict which is just now boiled to the surface?

BAER: It's an old conflict.

VAUSE: Yes.

BAER: Goes back to '79. The Iranian Revolution. You had the Mecca mosque takeover in '79. You know, it's a defensive Saudi Arabia that it's lashing out. I mean, this is an existential threat for them and the monarchy feels it's at risk and is fighting back.

VAUSE: Bahrain, Sudan have cut diplomatic ties. UAE says it's scaling back diplomatic ties but will continue to trade. I guess in some ways that shows how difficult it will be for the Saudis to try and isolate Iran, if the UAE is still going to do trade with the Iranians.

[01:25:09] BAER: Well, the UAE has a very large Iranian population. And there were a very large Shia population as well. They are worried about that. And there's also political problems in the UAE. Security officials, friends of mine, are in jail now who oppose this war in Yemen. I mean, so the Gulf is teetering on instability. And Bahrain of course has got 70 percent Shia. You know, where does this go? Will the Iranians escalate, and they

very well could in Bahrain and then the Saudis would have to send their army in there and fight it out.

VAUSE: So everyone is saying that this won't come to (INAUDIBLE). But you know, the wise body of opinion is that this might end up in a shooting war directly between the Iranians and the Saudis. They mentioned a reporter they're too far apart. This will end up in some kind of an in escalation in their proxy wars in the region. Do you buy that?

BAER: I think it will go first proxies. It will escalate there. Syria and Iraq as well as Yemen. And I think what we're all worried about is an accident. It very easily could happen in the Gulf. We've been trying to de-conflict with the Iranians but the Saudis and Bahrainis, anything can happen at this point. Somebody is going to fire a rocket and there's going to be a response. The U.S. Navy, by the way, is on full alert for some sort of accident.

VAUSE: On full alert within the region, the 7th fleet based in bahrain?

BAER: Yes. In Bahrain, they've got in Bahrain and also the Mediterranean.

VAUSE: Yes.

BAER: Because there's so many munitions and troops flying around and the de-confliction as we saw with the shooting down of the Turkish -- you know, the Turkish shooting down of the --

VAUSE: Yes.

BAER: The Russian airplane. You know, why not in the Gulf?

VAUSE: Very quickly, does this mean the Iranian nuclear deal is in trouble?

BAER: I think the Saudis' intention is to put it in trouble this, for Saudi Arabia, is a disaster. Any rapprochement with the United States is not in their interest. And they would like to see a distancing. This put on ice.

VAUSE: Appreciate it. Thanks, Bob.

A short break here. When we come back, anti-government protests in the U.S. state of Oregon have turned into an armed occupation in a remote area. We'll take a look at how things got to this point.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[01:30:45] VAUSE: Welcome back, everybody. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles. Just after 10:30 on a Monday night. I'm John Vause.

The headlines this hour.

(HEADLINES)

VAUSE: Armed protesters in Oregon have released their demands. They say will not leave the federal building they are occupying -- they've been there since Saturday -- until the ranchers who inspired the protests are released. They also demand the government give up control of the wildlife refuge where they're currently holed up.

The protests originated when father and son ranchers, Dwight and Steve Hammond, were convicted of arson on federal land. They turned themselves in on Monday but underscored the protesters do not speak for them.

Here's Paul Vercammen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, it all started over the weekend with a demonstration in Burns for the Hammonds. And then one group splintered off and came here and took over the unoccupied refuge. And that basically surprised some of the demonstrators and many of the townspeople.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMMON BUNDY, RANCHER: Let's go take a look at all the wasted taxpayer dollars.

VERCAMMEN (voice-over): The media allowed to go where law enforcement has not, inside the refuge cluster of one-story buildings occupied by an armed group that now has a name, Citizens for Constitutional Reform.

(on camera): How long do you plan to be here and have you already made a statement?

BUNDY: We've definitely made a statement, but statements are not good enough. We intend on going to work and assisting the people of Harney County.

VERCAMMEN (voice-over): Ammon Bundy, who was involved with his father, Cliven, in their own standoff with federal officers in Nevada, says he came here in Oregon ranchers, Dwight and Steven Hammond. The father and son were sentenced to five years in prison for arson after a supposed control burn on their property spread to U.S. government land. But Bundy calls the Hammonds case the result of a failed land grab by the government.

BUNDY: Because of that refusal to sell their ranch, these federal agencies began an attack on this family.

DAVID WARD, SHERIFF, HARNEY COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: You said you were here to help the citizens of the county. That help ended when a peaceful protest became an armed occupation. The Hammonds have turned themselves in. It's time for you to leave our community.

VERCAMMEN: On a tour, we saw no weapons, just a dozen or so people who took over unoccupied buildings. The group the federal government has aggressively swallowed up ranch land, harassed farmers, hurt the economy in places just like this, wide-open Harney County.

UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTER: We've come here to work. We did not sit as children and stamp our feet and demand that children things are met. We're going to go to work. We're going to try to help restore these ranchers that have lost their ranches.

(SHOUTING)

VERCAMMEN: While many in town echo the support for the Hammonds and other ranchers, some are upset the occupation led to schools being shut down for the week. And one man called this takeover just plain weird.

(on camera): The occupiers say one of the reasons they chose this refuge is it is so remote. Harney County is the largest county in Oregon. It's bigger than six states and its population less than one person per square mile.

Back to you, John.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: Paul Vercammen, thanks.

At this hour, law enforcement has yet to take any action on the situation. Steve Moore, a CNN contributor and retired special agent for the FBI,

joins me now with more.

There's some criticism about why the FBI hasn't moved in, saying if this was any other group, a pro-ISIS group, carrying ISIS flags instead of calling themselves patriots, this would be a very different situation. If it was the same group of armed men inside that building, but they were for a different cause, would the tactics be different here?

[01:35:13] STEVE MOORE, CNN CONTRIBUTOR & RETIRED FBI SPECIAL AGENT: They would be exactly the same. When you go through your "should we attack" checklist, race and gender and group names aren't in them. The smart thing here is that nobody in there can hurt anybody. They can make crank calls but they are isolated.

VAUSE: So they're not a danger right now. And this is something which essentially the FBI earned the hard way. If you can leave them alone, wait them out.

MOORE: Absolutely. We learned the terrible way in Waco that if you force people, they will do horrible things. And you lose 100 people and you start -- 100-plus people and you start thinking, I'm not going to do that again.

VAUSE: What's the time frame here? Just wait for -- is there a limit?

MOORE: I'd build a fence around the place. I don't think you're going to have to wait long. You have a group of people with disparate agendas. One is there because he doesn't like Islam. One is there because he wants to support this. These people are going to get tired of each other very quickly.

VAUSE: Does everybody count on that that there's going to be internal division?

MOORE: Actually, they do.

VAUSE: You know that's going to happen.

What would trigger a change in the wait-and-see approach?

MOORE: The change might be whether you had supporters coming up from behind the law enforcement and causing threats or whether these people started shooting with long-range rifles out the window.

VAUSE: What about the problem of under reaction. In this group of the Bundys, where they essentially challenged federal agents, and nothing happened, there's been no prosecution.

MOORE: Astounding.

VAUSE: Yeah. If they don't get charged then, they're back at it. What's the message?

MOORE: You make the point, if you under-enforce, under-react, you get Ammon Bundy, who pointed guns at law enforcement in Arizona, and now he's doing it in Oregon. There has to be a line drawn. We don't want lives lost, but you can't ignore anarchy. And this is anarchy.

VAUSE: A lot of people are saying this is terrorism. And there's a whole lot of stuff out there on social media calling these people Ya'll Qaida and --

(LAUGHTER)

-- and that kind of stuff. So legally, is this the definition of terrorism?

MOORE: The FBI certainly considers it terrorism. This is what we'd call domestic terrorism. And the people who are investigating this, I guarantee you, are investigating under the domestic terrorism statute and the domestic terrorism law.

VAUSE: Let's say someone was arrested in this situation. You get to a point where they move in, it all comes to an end, what charges do they face? I know it depends on what happens, but let's say it ends peacefully.

MOORE: What you'll do is go after the charges that will send the best message. Just because it was investigated as domestic terrorism doesn't mean you can't go in on the substantive charges and say he pointed a gun at a law enforcement officer, that's assault with a deadly weapon, attempt to kill a law enforcement officer, taking over of U.S. property. You don't have to charge him with terrorism but you can charge him with a bunch of the crimes they've already committed.

VAUSE: And those charges, that's the important part here. That's what sends the signal this is a nation of rules.

MOORE: We're not playing -- that's exactly the message you want. If we go in and shoot them up, then we're showing that the rules are bendable.

VAUSE: The Wild West.

Steve, thanks for coming in.

MOORE: Thank you. Appreciate it.

VAUSE: A short break here. When we come back, China's slumping stock market is hoping to bounce back from a pretty bad start to the New Year. We'll go live to Beijing to see how the numbers look right now.

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[01:41:53] VAUSE: It's been 20 years since Los Angeles had an NFL team. Three different clubs are looking to relocate. The Raiders, Rams and Chargers all filed paperwork with the league to move to the greater L.A. area starting with the 2016 season. NFL owners are scheduled to meet next week in Houston to talk about this. Three- quarters of the league's teams would have to vote in favor. Stocks in the Asia-Pacific region are struggling to recover from

Monday's market sell-off. A look at the numbers right now. Shanghai saw the biggest drop on Monday down nearly seven points, down now by 1.3 percent. Hong Kong also down more than 0.5 percent. The Australian ASX 200 is closed and inching down more than 0.5 percent. The Nikkei closed today as well, but also closed down in negative territory as well, down by almost .5 percent.

We'll get to Paula Hancocks in just a moment.

We'll start with Matt Rivers live in Beijing.

Matt, it's been a wild ride there for Chinese stocks. What's behind the volatility and are regulators doing anything to try to calm investor fears?

MATT RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There's several different theories out there about what's caused the volatility. Yesterday we spoke a lot about the manufacturing index here in China and how it just has had another poor month in December. That would be the seven out of the -- seven out of the last eight months where manufacturing numbers have gone down here in China. Today, one of the things they brought up would be about this ban that is set to be lifted here in China. It was last year in -- after some summertime volatility we saw that China imposed a ban on major shareholders from selling stakes in listed companies for six months. That ban is set to end on January 8th. That would be Friday of this week. So in talking to some analysts they suggested that perhaps yesterday looking ahead to that January 8th date, investors were a little spooked in the sense that all of a sudden all of these shares flooding the market once these major shareholders are able to sell some of their stakes again on January 8th. So in response to that, earlier today, the regulatory commission here in China put out a statement this morning right before markets opened here, and they said while being a little vague they would not allow such a major sell-off to occur. They didn't say how they'd prevent it from happening but they are exploring ways to make sure that such a large sell-off does not occur. And it was shortly after that we saw a stabilization today in Chinese stock markets, even though the Shanghai Composite is down a little bit right now. It's nothing compared to the volatility we saw yesterday. So things for the moment appear to be a bit more stable here in China.

VAUSE: At the end of the day, it's all relevant, I guess.

Let's go to Paula Hancocks in Seoul.

Paula, they used to say when America sneezes, the world catches cold. Now that seems to apply to China. At least as far as stock markets are concerned. What's the situation there?

[01:45:00] PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you just shared the numbers, John. We're not seeing that bounce-back that certainly some investors would have been hoping for after Monday's sell-off. The markets are still negative territory. And we're seeing many analysts saying that they believe that there could be a fair bit of volatility this year. Now just cast your mind back to last summer when we saw that massive sell-off on Chinese stocks. It took a fair while, a few weeks until the rest of the world's markets really reacted and caught that negative sentiment. On Monday, it was instantaneous. That's an interesting note to make. The fact that this volatility has started right at the very start of this day, of this year, excuse me. It's not just China that investors are watching. Geo political tensions always play a great role when it comes to spooking investors. What's happening between Saudi Arabia and Iran is dampening sentiment. This isn't calming down. Even more countries within the Middle East are becoming involved in this dispute. It's a very strong oil-producing region. Saudi Arabia and Iran are both big oil producing nations. So oil prices are in focus as well. We've seen a huge amount of volatility with oil prices over the last year and, with this extra tension, that could only increase -- John?

VAUSE: Paula, thank you.

Paula Hancocks, giving us the latest and some context from Seoul. And also Matt Rivers in Beijing. Thank you to you both.

A short break here. When we come back, with President Obama about to announce gun control measures, we'll hear from buyers at a very big gun show. Details still to come.

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(WEATHER REPORT) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[01:50:53] VAUSE: A chilling new video from ISIS reveals there may be a new Jihadi John within the organization. In the 10-minute video, which hasn't been independently verified, a man with a British accent is heard threatening and insulting British Prime Minister David Cameron calling him an imbecile and slave to the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: It's desperate stuff from an organization that really does do the most despicable acts and people can see that again today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What I asked my team to do is see what more we could do to strengthen our enforcement and prevent guns from falling into the wrong hands, to make sure that criminals, people who are mentally unstable, those who could pose a danger to themselves or others are less likely to get a gun.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: U.S. President Barack Obama explaining the unilateral action he's taking on gun control. He's expected to announce executive action Tuesday that will include a definition of gun dealers, to include some private sellers and, in turn, require background checks from their customers and that would tighten the so-called gun show loophole. Currently, private dealers can sell without conducting background checks.

Gary Tuchman went to a popular gun show in Virginia to see what the impact of the new rules might be.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Organizers refer to it as miles of aisles. You can buy guns from retail booths and from private dealers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm selling a Mossberg 12 gauge volt action.

TUCHMAN (on camera): How much?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: $200.

TUCHMAN: And this gun is what?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a Mossberg 16 gauge bolt action.

TUCHMAN: How much?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: $150. TUCHMAN (voice-over): Business at what's called the nation's gun show

in Chantilly, Virginia, is good. So good, the ATMs have run out of money. There are first-time buyers galore.

(on camera): What's made you decide to buy a gun?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's the possibility that our laws might change and we're not going to have that ability to protect ourselves.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): President Obama taking executive action on guns has alarmed many of the people here.

Annette Elliott is the president and owner of the company that puts on the show and about 85 others in the U.S. each year.

(on camera): What do you think the president of the United States really wants to do when it comes to guns?

ANNETTE ELLIOTT, PRESIDENT & CEO, GUN SHOWS: Well, I think the end game with a lot of Democrats is to confiscate them.

(CROSSTALK)

TUCHMAN: Is that what you think?

ELLIOTT: We're afraid of that, sure.

TUCHMAN: Is that what you think the president wants to do?

ELLIOTT: Maybe. Yeah, I think maybe he does.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): Another reason the show is jammed?

ELLIOTT: The ISIS threat has increased business. Immediately increased business.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I used to be a zero gun, you know, guy. But nowadays, you don't even know who your opponents are. You have to be ready.

TUCHMAN (on camera): Opinions are not black and white. There are people who feel there should be an increase in firearms regulation. But what's extremely prevalent is a deep distrust and suspicion of the motivations of the federal government.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a Winchester 300 short.

TUCHMAN: How much do you want to sell it for?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm looking for about six.

TUCHMAN: $600?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): If you buy a gun from someone in the business of dealing in firearms, federal law requires background checks. And that's what's happening here. The information is then fed into computers before customers are allowed to buy their guns. Police are present to arrest people when the computer checks indicate criminal violations.

But the private dealers are not legally required to conduct background checks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'd ask you for a Virginia driver's license, that way I know you're from within the state.

TUCHMAN (on camera): If I gave you a fake license --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would have no idea.

TUCHMAN: Would you trust me? Do I have an honest face? Would you sell it to me?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I trust you. You look like an honest face.

TUCHMAN: That's being said, sometimes if you don't think someone has an honest face, you don't sell it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a civilian version of the M-14.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is Smith & Wesson .40 caliber. It's a lot like a Glock.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): Gary Cochran is one of the retailers doing a booming business here.

GARY COCHRAN, GUN RETAILER: We sell any kind of gun. Any kind of legal gun you can buy.

TUCHMAN: He's also one of the minority who think things should be more stringent.

COCHRAN: I'm for expanded background checks. If somebody is engaged in the business, they ought to do a background check. I've been at this 30 years. I've never sold a gun without a background check.

[01:55:16] TUCHMAN: Many believe the government needs to be more concerned about mental illness than making it more difficult to buy a gun. They are aware things are going to change.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's Obama. He wants to do what he thinks is in the best interest of the country. I disagree strongly with him on this issue.

TUCHMAN: Gary Tuchman, CNN, Chantilly, Virginia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: Join CNN for a special look at guns in America with U.S. President Barack Obama. Anderson Cooper hosts an exclusive one-hour live town hall event Thursday night at 8:00 in Washington. That's 1:00 a.m. Friday in London, 9:00 Friday morning in Hong Kong, only here on CNN.

And the president is expected to deliver those remarks on his executive action from the White House around 11:00 a.m. eastern time on Tuesday. CNN will, of course, have live coverage before and after that announcement. Please join us then.

You have been watching CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles. I'm John Vause.

For our viewers in North America, "Amanpour" is up next. For everyone else, the news continues with Rosemary Church and Errol Barnett right after this.

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