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North Korea Claims H-Bomb; Fears Weigh on Markets; Killer's Friend in Court; Oregon Protest Continues; Reaction to Obama's Executive Actions on Guns. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired January 06, 2016 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[09:30:00] CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: But we will be talking -- I'll be interviewing the leader of the U.N.'s atomic agency, the IAEA, in a few hours. So hopefully we'll know a bit more then.

But the United Nations Security Council, you mentioned all those nations, have called an emergency closed door session to try to deal with this. That's in a few hours from now right there in New York. Now, if it is true, Carol, it is a dramatic escalation of North Korea's nuclear capability because, while it has tested slightly lower yield, lower strength nuclear weapons in the past, and while it does have bombs and warheads, a thermonuclear bomb, which is what a hydrogen bomb is, would be a dramatic escalation. And it's a very sophisticated and difficult scientific procedure. It's fusion and fission. And, therefore, it says, if they have done this, that they are moving very fast ahead with their nuclear program despite international sanctions, Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: So the question is, and I know these -- there's this emergency meeting going on, but can anyone possibly institute more sanctions on North Korea? I mean what can anyone do to stop North Korea at this point?

AMANPOUR: Well, it is difficult because North Korea actually has the weapons. So it's difficult. You can't go bombing or invading. You can't do the kinds of things that perhaps the west thought they could do in Iraq or Syria or elsewhere.

Now, what they do say, all the experts, is that it must be full engagement by the United States because the North Koreans are completely paranoid about the United States. I mean just totally paranoid about U.S. intentions. But it has to be a joint China, U.S. South Korea, Japan, all of these countries with any sort of influence in interest in this have to get together.

As you know, the United States has been slightly outsourcing its North Korea policy to China because China is meant to be having the most influence on North Korea. However, in the last few years, even China's influence on North Korea has diminished. There's been a much harder line between China and North Korea since Xi Jinping became president and not the close kind of relationship that used to exist between Chinese and North Korean leaders. Kim Jong-un has not met with Xi Jinping. So there's a lot of political posturing. But the scientific, the technological, all of that is going ahead in

North Korea. And the objective now is to try to stall it before trying to roll it back. And it's very difficult to see how that's going to happen but their -- there seems to be that's the only way, some kind of proper negotiation to get to that point, Carol.

COSTELLO: Christiane Amanpour reporting for us from London. Thank you.

U.S. markets are reacting this morning to what North Korea is doing. The Dow falling sharply on the news. Christine Romans is here to tell us more about that.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: You know, I'll tell you, stock investors like predictability, they like world peace, they like to see profits growing and economic growth. In the beginning of this year, all of those things have been thrown into question. North Korea the most recent example. So you've got Dow -- the Dow Jones Industrial average down sharply here and you've got the S&P 500, the stocks in your portfolio likely reflect the 500 stocks in the S&P 500, that's now down below 2,000. It has broken below the 2,000 level. So these are -- these are milestone kinds of numbers to start a new year.

You've also got slowing China growth. That's what was the really the catalyst at the beginning of the year, the few days, couple days ago, and rising interest rates in the United States. So these three -- three kind of fear factors driving the market sell-off.

Carol, there's sort of scaredy cat investing going on, as I call it. People are buying gold. People are buying bonds. The dollar is up. So you can see what's called -- you know, it's a fear trade. Out of stocks around the world and into some of these more safer havens.

COSTELLO: It just sounds so honest.

ROMANS: I know it does. And, you know, I'll tell you, Apple shares are down sharply this morning too and that's not because of anything that's going on in the rest of the world. That's because of concerns about, you know, Apple -- the demand for the Apple iPhone. So Apple is a widely held stock. You probably have it in your portfolio. That's down about 25 percent from its high last year. So some of the big names have been really hit. The broader markets getting hit here. Just a real tough way to start the year.

COSTELLO: All right, Christine. Christine Romans, thanks so much. I appreciate it.

ROMANS: You're welcome, Carol.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, 18 minutes in question. What did those San Bernardino killers do after they went on their deadly rampage? The FBI's calling for your help this morning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:37:39] COSTELLO: The man who bought the guns used during the San Bernardino terror attack is expected to make his plea in court today. Enrique Marquez is set to appear before a judge in just a matter of hours. He's facing a total of five criminal charges. Marquez's appearance comes as the FBI now reveals a gap in the terrorist actions after the rampage and before their deaths. CNN's Stephanie Elam is outside the courtroom with more for you this morning.

Good morning.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

Yes, when he is hear before a judge, it's expected to happen very quickly for Marquez today. He is facing those five charges, which include conspiring with the shooter in the December 2nd rampage in San Bernardino, with Farook, that's from 2011 and 2012, to provide material support to terrorists. And then there's those two counts related to those assault rifles that he purchased years before the attack happened. So there's charges related to that. And then also marriage fraud and making a false statement for his sham marriage to a relative of Syed Farook. All of that is part of what he is charged today. What we are expecting is that he's going to plead not guilty and then the trial date will be set. So all in all it should be very, very quick.

But the other development in this San Bernardino case is what the authorities are looking for from the public. They have pieced together the timeline of the day of the shooting, of the four hours involved with Syed Farook and his wife, Tashfeen Malik. But there is an 18 minute window that they still don't know where they were. And so that is why they're coming to the public saying, can you please tell us if you had any interaction or if you saw them on that day. And the time period that they're looking at, Pacific time, is 12:59 p.m. to 1:17 p.m. And the say that they believe that the couple was near the interchange of the 215 and 10 freeways at the beginning of that window, and by the end of the window, they think they were at the Waterman (ph) exit on the 10 freeway.

And I say that simply because the authorities say they just want to tie up any lose ends. They want to know where they were, what they may have been doing in case anybody else may have had any contact with them or may have aided them in any way. They just want to make sure that they have looked under every stone and they know what they were up to. So they're looking for the public's help. And if they have any help that -- that they haven't already given to these authorities, they're hoping people will come forward because they've done this by look at surveillance videos, traffic cameras, witness accounts. And so if there's anything else out there, they're hoping people will come forward, Carol.

[09:40:09] COSTELLO: All right, Stephanie Elam reporting live from California this morning.

A pre-trial hearing today for Baltimore Police Officer Caesar Goodson. He's the second of six officers charged in the death last April of suspect Freddie Gray. Goodson was driving the police van in which Freddie Gray suffered a severe spinal cord injury that led to his death a week later. And this police officer's charges include second degree depraved heart murder and involuntary manslaughter. It is not clear if Goodson will actually be physically in court. His trial is set to begin on Monday.

The armed occupation after a federal wildlife refuge in Oregon is interesting its fifth day. Tonight, the sheriff's department will host a question and answer session with local residents about the potentially violent situation and when it might be over. It could be a while. The protesters say they want two local ranchers who are convicted of arson to be freed from prison. They also want federal land reopened to farming, logging and mining. Moments ago, protest leader Ammon Bundy tweeted, "we have remained peaceful. If the authorities raid us unnecessarily, we can't guarantee that continues. We are prepared to defend ourselves."

CNN's Paul Vercammen joins us -- joins us live with more from Princeton, Oregon.

Good morning.

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

And one of those occupiers is LaVoy Finicum. He's here right now.

You spent the night out here with -- with your --

LAVOY FINICUM, ARMED PROTESTER: (INAUDIBLE) by shaking hands.

VERCAMMEN: OK, we'll shake hands. A gloved hand, apologize.

FINICUM: All right.

VERCAMMEN: But you spent the night out here --

FINICUM: I did.

VERCAMMEN: With your cowboy rifle, as you described it.

FINICUM: I did.

VERCAMMEN: Is it loaded?

FINICUM: Yes, it is. Of course.

VERCAMMEN: Why did you spend the night out here with your rifle?

FINICUM: The reason I'm here -- and let's -- let's -- let's just get a couple of things straight off the bat here. Let's -- let's not make this whole issue about me. And the reason I'm here, sitting in this chair, the reason I'm here in Harney County, the reason I'm here in Oregon at all is because of the Hammond family. I would be home with my family if I was not -- if it was not for the Hammond family being in prison, I would not be here. So let's get that out on the table. This is not about me. It's about the Hammond family and -- and their livelihood been stripped away. So let's -- let's get that out on the table right away.

VERCAMMEN: But we're talking to you because you have been a spokesman for the group, as you have.

FINICUM: Yes, that's fine.

VERCAMMEN: And what we're trying to understand is, what would it take for you to give up? And we're also trying to understand why you have a loaded rifle here and how far will you take this? I mean --

FINICUM: Why -- why would you ask the question, what would it take for me to give up? You know, that's -- that's a poor question. I'm not giving up on anything. I mean maybe try a different question and I'll try a little better to answer that.

VERCAMMEN: Well, let me rephrase. We were talking off camera about this.

FINICUM: Yes. Yes.

VERCAMMEN: You've made a list of demands. Let's just say -- we haven't heard independently that this has happened -- but let's just say the federal government comes to you and says, if you leave this refuge peacefully maybe there won't be trespassing arrests, that sort of thing. We're trying to find out, what would the resolution be to this? What is it that -- exactly that you do want? I mean does it even sound realistic that the Hammonds are going to be freed by the same federal government that put them in prison?

FINICUM: I -- I certainly hope that they'll free them. They're the ones who put them in. They're the only ones whose can get them out. So, yes, it is very realistic that they could be pardoned and allowed to go home to their family. That is very realistic, yes.

VERCAMMEN: And so some people look at you right now, knowing that in this county you've caused tremendous fear. You're occupying this reserve resulted in the school district shutting down schools. Some people might be looking at you and saying, what's the difference between you and another terrorist? I mean are -- is this a form of terrorism?

FINICUM: Some good questions. Let's -- let's consider who has been terrorized. You know, who is the terrorist? OK? What family has lived in fear and terror for a decade -- don't burn your hand -- a decade and who is now in prison? Has not that family been terrorized? Has not that family been put in fear? And now has it come not to fruition that they've been thrown in prison, not once but twice for the same account? Not a separate account. Not a separate issue, but the same issue? They have been thrown in prison a second time. Where is double jeopardy? Where is our nation not rising up in disgust for being tried a second time, imprisoned a second time after complying with everything they were asked to do the first time? This is the issue. That is the terrorism. That's the fear. That's the family's that are hurt.

VERCAMMEN: Well, we thank you for taking time out.

So here we are outside, day five. We have not seen, by the way, any members of law enforcement, whether they be sheriff's deputies or federal agents.

[09:45:06] And so this sorts of hands off stand continues. Back to you now, Carol.

COSTELLO: Paul, I wondered if you could ask LaVoy just one more question because, you know, I'm sort of --

VERCAMMEN: Sure.

COSTELLO: -- the plainspoken sort of type, right? Can you just ask him point blank is he prepared to open fire on federal agents if he feels it's needed?

VERCAMMEN: Carol Costello is asking are you prepared to open fire on federal agents if you think it's needed?

FINICUM: When you're raised in this country, we're all raised around firearms, hunting, clinking (ph) tin cans as kids, hunting jack rabbits, the first thing that we're taught as kids is do not point guns at people. And so I have no intention in pointing guns at anybody that are not pointing guns at me.

So let's just be neighborly. Let's just be kind. Let's be civil. Please don't point guns at me and I shall not point gun at you. And how about we leave it at that?

VERCAMMEN: Just to follow up on all of that, you came here for the demonstration.

FINICUM: Yes.

VERCAMMEN: And then you wound up occupying this reserve. Did you have a vision that way more people would join you here at the reserve? Is it possible that you had an idea to get exposure for your cause and something went sideways?

FINICUM: Let me explain something. I didn't -- had no intention of being here. I came up here from Arizona to place some flowers on the Hammonds' front door to show sympathy. I did not know that this was going to go down. It was the meeting just before that march that the Bundy boys, which I am good friends with, said we need to do more than just march and hold signs. He said this is what we're going to do. And I rode with them once, and so, by dang it, I'll ride with them again. And so I'm here and I did not know I was going to be here. I thought I was going to be home, but here I am.

VERCAMMEN: We thank you for your time out, and home is a rather big place for LaVoy. He has 11 children and 19 grandchildren and two more grandchildren on the way.

Back to you there, Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Paul Vercammen reporting live. Thank you.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the president lays out his plan to stop gun violence but will his plan work? We'll talk to a Charleston County sheriff next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:50:38] COSTELLO: An emotional President Obama addressed the nation on Tuesday, calling for an end to the nation's plague of gun violence, and shedding tears as he recalled those who had lost their lives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And from every family who never imagined that their loved one would be taken from our lives by a bullet from a gun. Every time I think about those kids, it gets me mad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: The president unveiled a four-part plan to curb gun death, including expanding background checks, hiring more FBI and ATF agents, increasing funding for mental health care, and encouraging states to report those who should be kept from buying guns and developing gun- safety technology.

But those who oppose any kind of gun regulation pounced, saying the president was using tragedy and tears to force an emotional response. Conservative columnist Ben Shapiro accused the president of, quote, "crying if he doesn't get his way in Congress", while "National Review" writer Charles Cook called the president's speech "embarrassing, dishonest and weak".

One presidential candidate did not pile on, however, and that was Donald Trump. Here's what he had to say on Fox News.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOICE OF DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDDIATE: I think he was sincere. I mean, it's a thing that he feels -- you know, I think he's incorrect about it. They're just taking chunks and chunks out of the Second Amendment. But, you know, I think he probably means well. You know, the concept is wrong. What they're doing, it's a mental health -- we have a huge mental health problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So let's talk about this some more. I'm joined by Al Cannon, he's the sheriff from Charleston County, South Carolina. Welcome, sir.

SHERIFF AL CANNON, CHARLESTON COUNTY, SOUTH CAROLINA: Thank you, Carol. Good morning and happy new year.

COSTELLO: Happy new year to you, too. Sir, is the president using emotion to promote his political agenda?

CANNON: Well, Carol, interestingly, I'm not sure I heard the president say anything a whole lot different than he has in the past. I will quickly add that I think insofar as upgrading and updating the FBI data sources for the net (ph) system is a good idea. That's something that should be done. Don't know that that necessarily requires the president to publicly include that as a part of his gun issue message, but I certainly support that aspect of it. I just don't think that that's going to accomplish anything insofar as the other elements of what the president had to present.

I will tell you, I do have a strong concern as it relates to -- you know, sheriffs, Carol, have a lot of dealings with mental health- related issues, both in terms of the tension in jails as well as searching as an enforcement arm for probate courts and those that deal with people who have mental illness or substance abuse problems. I'm concerned that this -- I think health, mental health care professionals need to be more engaged in this discussion in terms of how do you approach this without further stigmatizing the issue of getting mental health services. And I'm afraid that one element of the president's message may well tend to discourage people from coming forward in seeking mental health services.

The other aspect in terms of the doctor/patient relationship where they're putting more of an obligation on doctors to report people, patients that have mental illness-type issues that perhaps shouldn't be, there are already a lot of state laws in place that require health care professionals to report certain things. And that was a factor, by the way, in the Aurora case, if I recall, in terms of the medical college. But I think it really jeopardizes the doctor/patient relationship and puts doctors in a precarious position when it comes to the issue of assessing whether or not they have some obligation to report.

[09:55:13] COSTELLO: I understand where you're -- I understand where you're coming from, sir, I do. But, you know, you and I could probably both agree something needs to be done about mental health and gun use in this country.

CANNON: Absolutely.

COSTELLO: But you can't have that debate in the halls of Congress, so what should be done? Because Congress isn't going to talk about it.

CANNON: Well, you know, I think -- I've expressed this at least to Attorney General Holder -- I think that the president and the former attorney general have missed an excellent opportunity to do -- take a position on something that I think is a major factor in the culture of violence that's involved with violent crime and gun violence. And that is making the statement that, you know, it's inconsistent that the military spends millions if not billions of dollars developing virtual training, virtual video training. And Grand Theft Auto, one of the highest grossing video games, you get points for killing police officers.

So there's a culture of violence out there that's promoted by what I call Hollywood, broadly defined, and the president and the attorney general, I think, could have taken advantage of their position to the bully pulpit to tell Hollywood they need to tone down some of the movies, the lyrics, and all that promote this culture of violence that I think is a major factor in the gun violence as it relates to particularly those local shootings, not talking about the mass shootings so much.

COSTELLO: No, I understand. I understand.

CANNON: The local shootings. I think they've been in an excellent position --

COSTELLO: I understand.

CANNON: -- to have taken that position.

COSTELLO: And my final question for you, sir.

CANNON: That's something positive that could have been done. Yes, ma'am.

COSTELLO: Will you -- you know, the president talked about these more stringent background checks. Will you support those background checks in your state?

CANNON: Well, I think we've taken some measures to do that in South Carolina. The general assembly has made reporting by particularly the mental health courts who have adjudicated individuals as being mentally ill. But it's a different --

COSTELLO: But if the federal government institutes more stringent gun-control laws, and it affects your state, which it will because it's federal law, will you say that's OK. Let's do it?

CANNON: Well, it depends on what that is. In the first place, I don't have any authority to enforce federal laws. But I've not heard anything that I thought would be a significant aid in reducing the kind of violence. Even if, for example, the shooting -- the tragic shooting we had at the church here. That individual, certainly he's involved in the drug environment. That means he's going to have access to weapons. So whether he was able to buy a weapon from a dealer or a background check was run and something was missed, the fact of the matter is, in that environment, guns are readily available. And if you can get drugs, you can get guns.

So I think one of the problems we have, Carol, is that we look at this through our eyes instead of looking at it through the eyes of the criminals, and we underestimate the creativity and the initiative and the commitment that they have to find a weapon. And a background check is -- one of the interesting things, Carol --

COSTELLO: I have to leave it there. I'm so --

CANNON: I understand. But it will be interesting, of all of the people that have been prevented by background check from purchasing the firearm, a follow-up study to show how many of those eventually committed gun-related crimes, I think, would present a very interesting picture at how successful the system was.

COSTELLO: Well, it would be great to study the use of guns. You're right, but we can't do that either in this country because there are roadblocks set up, and that is tragic.

Sheriff Al Cannon, thanks for being with me. I appreciate it.

CANNON: I think that kind of study could be done.

COSTELLO: Thanks for saying that. I appreciate it. I've got to go.

I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)