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Could Sanders Overshadow Clinton in Early States; Barry Bennett Says Trump Will Be GOP Nominee; Trump Called on a Cheater in Golf; Chicago City Attorney Resigns after Lying in Police Shooting Case. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired January 06, 2016 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:33:09] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: It's the bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

The countdown is on for key early voting states. Less than four weeks until the crucial Iowa caucuses. Meanwhile, to Nevada we go. Packed house as candidates from both parties crisscrossing the state. Any moment now, Hillary Clinton will be speaking at this grassroots event in Henderson. Her husband, former President Bill Clinton, stumped solo for her this week in Nashua, New Hampshire, for the first time.

Brianna Keilar is there in Nevada.

So set the scene and also tell me, is there any worry from camp Clinton that perhaps Bernie Sanders could overshadow her in these early states?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Maybe not here in Nevada where Hillary Clinton will be talking to people who she hopes will show up for her on Election Day in an organizer fashion, volunteer fashion here at a community center, a retirement community just outside of Las Vegas. I don't think she's too worried about Nevada, certainly not South Carolina which has the fourth contest. But right now all eyes are on Iowa and New Hampshire. This is where you're seeing her focus her attention this week. She's doing better, I will say, if you look at where she was in 2008 compared to then, Senator Barack Obama. She was about even with him at this point in time going into Iowa. Remember she came in third, a devastating loss, the beginning of the end. She's doing better than Bernie Sanders, but she can't get too comfortable with that especially with Bernie Sanders looking so strong right now in New Hampshire. He's been leading her there. So perhaps no surprise she started her week with two days with six stops in Iowa trying to make sure she can shore up that early contest state and maybe get momentum going into New Hampshire where she really needs it.

BALDWIN: Playing the hypothetical game, with you, my friend, what if she were to lose Iowa? How does strategy shift?

[14:35:00] KEILAR: If she loses Iowa with the polls in New Hampshire looking as they look right now, then her uphill battle becomes even steeper. And it doesn't mean that Hillary Clinton couldn't still clinch the nomination, but you start seeing her needing to go through many more contests to do so against Bernie Sanders. So the sort of best case scenario at that point is this becomes more of a protracted nomination process for her. And I think what she'd really like to do at this point is sort of sew this up early, let Republicans duke it out as she starts to focus on the general election. If she loses in Iowa, if she loses in New Hampshire, then that at the very least is something that gets put off.

BALDWIN: Brianna Keilar, thank you very much in Henderson, Nevada, ahead of the Hillary Clinton rally there.

On the Republican side, the former campaign manager for Ben Carson is speaking out since abruptly quitting just days ago.

Kate Bolduan is with me now.

Good to see you.

So Barry Bennett, you talked with him earlier today. He had some pretty provocative things to say about his former boss and also Donald Trump.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, his former boss and Donald Trump. The line that hit me is, "unless something cataclysmic happens, Donald Trump will win the nomination." This coming, as you said, from the former campaign manager until just six days ago for Ben Carson, one of the chief rivals to Donald Trump. He left the campaign over differences on direction and some of the advice and advisers Ben Carson was relying on through other people. But beyond that, it was surprisingly candid, him giving us his take on the race and on his former boss. Listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARRY BENNETT, FORMER BEN CARSON CAMPAIGN MANAGER: By the middle of March, this thing could be well over. At this point, it's getting harder and harder to see how Donald Trump isn't our nominee.

BOLDUAN: Do you still think that Ben Carson is the best candidate for president?

BENNETT: Well, I think Ben Carson has the best head and the best heart. But, you know --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: Does that mean he's most qualified, though?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's not a yes. That's not a yes.

BENNETT: Well, you know, I'm a realist, and I believe in data. I believe in polls. I have not seen a plan out there that is going to take down Donald Trump quite yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BOLDUAN: You heard right there, he has the best heart, best head. He still calls Mr. Carson the smartest man he's ever met, an inspirational figure, but he did not say he's the best candidate to be president. Very candid coming from a guy who just left running that campaign.

BALDWIN: Gives Donald Trump the nod.

BOLDUAN: Probably begrudgingly gives him the nod.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: We'll see you tonight, 7:00, Kate Bolduan in for Erin Burnett.

Thank you so much.

Moments ago, Donald Trump taking to Twitter, defending, what, his golf game? This, after Actor Samuel L. Jackson called out the Republican front-runner, saying Donald Trump doesn't always play by the rules on the golf course. We're about to talk to somebody who's interviewed Trump's former caddies and golf buddies.

More on breaking news. The White House saying North Korea did not manage to carry out the hydrogen bomb test as they have claimed. So if it wasn't the H-bomb, what the heck was that? Stay here.

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[14:41:39] BALDWIN: I smile because this is about to be fun. Donald Trump. Donald Trump, no stranger to controversy, but this go-around, it is his time on the fairways that raises eyebrows. The Republican presidential candidate had tweeted, quote, "I don't know Samuel L. Jackson, to the best of my knowledge, haven't play golf with him and thinks he does too many commercials. Boring. Not a fan."

Let me back up. Here's the story. Trump is referencing an interview that Samuel L. Jackson did initially with United Airlines' "Rhapsody" magazine where he says Trump isn't trustworthy on the course.

Last night, the actor was on with Seth Meyers. Seth Meyers asked him about this, and here's Samuel L. Jackson's response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SETH MEYERS, HOST, SETH MEYERS TV SHOW: You claim here you have met him.

SAMUEL L. JACKSON, ACTOR: Yeah, I've met him a lot.

MEYERS: You played golf with him?

JACKSON: I played golf with him. I actually played golf with him with Anthony Anderson one day.

MEYERS: Gotcha. JACKSON: And we were all playing together. We clearly saw him hook a

ball into a lake at Trump National in Jersey. His caddie told him he found it.

(LAUGHTER)

MEYERS: Was the caddie soaking wet when he showed this?

JACKSON: No. He just took off running. Next thing we hear, we got it, Mr. Trump!

MEYERS: Gotcha.

JACKSON: He used to call me -- I have another person who can verify he knows me. Called me one day. I was here in New York. Always calling me, Samuel L., the Don. Who? Oh, Mr. Trump, how you doing? Are you busy today? No. You want to play golf? Sure. I'm not going to play but I've got a friend that wants to play, we're going to play at my club over here. Not in Manhattan but the other Trump club on this side of the bridge. When I got there, it was President Clinton.

MEYERS: Really?

JACKSON: Who could also verify that Donald Trump knows me.

(LAUGHTER)

MEYERS: Here's the bummer.

JACKSON: Don did show up and took bill in and bought him a jacket and gave me nothing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Love Seth Meyers asking him about this.

So this is far from the first time Donald Trump has been accused of doing whatever it takes on the greens. Moments ago, Trump took to Twitter and has responded. Here you go. He says, quote, "I don't cheat at golf but Samuel L. Jackson cheats with his game. He has no choice. And stop doing commercials." Moments later, quote, "Don't like Samuel L. Jackson's golf swing. Not athletic I've won many championships. Played them for charity."

With that, we talk golf and politics. Of course, we do. Let me bring in "Washington Post's" Ben Terris, who was among the first to raise the question a couple of months ago with this very extraordinary piece entitled "Does Donald Trump Cheat at Golf, a 'Washington Post' Investigation."

Thanks for playing along with us today.

Let me just get your reaction to Donald Trump's Twitter fest in the last couple of minutes over all of this back-and-forth with Samuel L. Jackson.

BEN TERRIS, WASHINGTON POST: Let me just say I have no idea about Samuel L. Jackson's game. He may cheat. I have no idea.

(CROSSTALK)

TERRIS: But I've talked to many people who have played with Donald Trump. A lot of people have said the same thing Samuel L. Jackson said. It sounds like he's a little bit of a cheater when it comes to golf.

BALDWIN: A writer says golf is like bicycle shorts, it can reveal a lot about a guy. You have great anecdotes, great quotes in your piece. Can you talk about what Donald chump is like on the course?

TERRIS: Donald Trump plays by his own rules. We've seen that in politics and the golf course. He's a lot of fun. Everybody who plays with him says he's a lot of fun. He's boisterous, he pats you on the back, he's a great host. But he'll pick up a ball. He'll say that he only hit four shots when he really hit six. He'll take a "give me" chip-in shot. I don't play golf, but these are apparently what you don't do.

[14:45:25] BALDWIN: I'm not a great golfer but I may cheat on occasion, but id guess I'm not running for president. But you also did talk to -- you talked to some folks in your piece who defend Mr. Trump and his playing ways.

TERRIS: Sure. First of all, even Rick Riley, who says he was the biggest cheat he ever played with, said it was a great time. He's also played golf with Bill Clinton and he took a bunch of Billagans. Maybe it's the most presidential thing Donald Trump has done is cheat at golf. Who knows? Also it's his golf course so he gets to play by his rules. It's the Donald Trump show.

BALDWIN: If you were to play golf with Donald Trump, what would it look like?

TERRIS: It wouldn't look good. I would have to cheat more than him just to have a chance to play at all.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: How did Donald Trump respond to your hard-hitting golf investigation?

TERRIS: He didn't love it. First of all, he said in a press conference that it wasn't true, that he doesn't cheat at golf. He said about, in my story I talked to a bunch of people and included a quote from Alice Cooper from a previous story. And Donald Trump responded to that by saying that's a terrible thing to say about people, especially me, which I thought was pretty great. He then called me a dishonest reporter and a real creep, which made for a good Twitter bio. Not so bad.

BALDWIN: There you go. There you go.

Ben Terris, of "The Washington Post," thank you.

I should also clarify I don't cheat. I just flat-out move the ball in front of anyone I'm playing with. There you go.

Ben, thank you.

(LAUGHTER)

TERRIS: Thanks.

BALDWIN: Coming up next here, big news out of Alabama today. The chief justice of the state Supreme Court defying the United States Supreme Court, ordering probate judges in his state to stop issuing same sex marriage licenses. What is going on there? How is this even legally feasible? We'll explore all of that.

Also, her son was killed by Chicago police, and now a senior lawyer for the city has up and resigned over allegations of misconduct and lying in the trial involving this woman's son. That young man's mother joins me next. Hear her emotional message for that now ex- prosecutor. That is next.

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[14:50:45] BALDWIN: The city of Chicago under the microscope once against. A senior lawyer for the city just resigned amid allegations of misconduct. A federal judge ruled the attorney hid crucial evidence and then lied about it in the case involving two police officers on trial for a deadly police shooting. The civil case centers around the 2011 death of Darius Pinex. Pinex was shot and killed during a traffic stop on the city's south side. The officers testified Pinex's car fit a description they heard over police dispatch with a car wanted in connection with a shooting. It turns out dispatch didn't mention a shooting. The lawyer for the city reportedly denied the recording still existed. The attorney's conduct was called, in a word, "unacceptable."

Chicago's embattled mayor, Rahm Emanuel, echoed the sentiments but affirmed his support for the agency.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAHM EMANUEL, (D), CHICAGO MAYOR: There is zero tolerance for violating not only the public trust but your professional standards, and there will be no place for that. He has my support to make sure that this does not happen again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The judge has ordered a trial. Pinex's family attorney says the ruling raises questions about the city's role in perpetuating police misconduct.

Joining me in Darius Pinex's mother, Gloria, and her attorney, Steve Greenberg.

Thank you so much for the time, both of you.

Ms. Pinex, I'm so sorry for the loss of your son. GLORIA PINEX, SON KILLED BY CHICAGO POLICE: Thank you a lot.

BALDWIN: If I may just begin with you. Can you take me back to that day in January of 2011, what happened? What was your son doing then?

PINEX: He was on his way to drop one of his friends off at the station. He was driving eastbound going to the Dan Ryan to drop off his friend.

BALDWIN: And what happened after that?

PINEX: He was encountered by a Tahoe police car that pulled them over and curbed them. He handed over his driver's license and insurance, and ended up dying after that.

BALDWIN: He was killed by police?

PINEX: Yes. He was murdered, yes.

BALDWIN: When you talked to police after the fact, how did they explain to you what had happened?

PINEX: They didn't. When I got to the scene, there was no ambulance. There was a lot of police officers there, but they stood there cold and callous like I didn't deserve to know what happened to my son. I stood for hours in the cold waiting on answers and didn't get any answers.

BALDWIN: And I'm sure you asked and then eventually there was this massive trial last year. And a federal jury found that those two police officers were indeed justified for killing your son. But it turns out, as we mentioned a moment ago, this lead city prosecutor lied, intentionally concealed key evidence, lied about it. And now the news this week that he has resigned. Your reaction to that?

PINEX: He should have been fired a long time ago, especially when it came out in the middle of the trial about the tape and him lying in front of the judge like he did. He should have been fired. He shouldn't have had a chance to resign.

STEVE GREENBERG, ATTORNEY FOR DARIUS PINEX FAMILY: It's not just that the attorney lied. It's that this story from almost the beginning, from day one, was a lie. And that's really why this is significant in light of everything else that's going on, because there's this culture where they just overlook things or cover up things that go on, on the street, that promotes a distrust with the community. It hides the truth. And it allows police officers to act without any consequences.

BALDWIN: Let me read just a statement from the law department spokesperson saying this lawyer's behavior was inexcusable. Quote, "The law department holds its employees to the absolute highest professional and ethical standards and does not tolerate any action that would call into question the integrity of the lawyers who serve and represent the city of Chicago."

I mean, I think, Steve, to your point, listen, all this talk about specifically recently about Chicago, although I have a feeling Ms. Pinex would say it's been going on for a while, police culture, I know this raises all kinds of questions for you. What will you, what will Ms. Pinex do legally speaking moving forward?

[14:55:14] GREENBERG: Well, moving forward, we're ready to rack up another jury and go ahead with the trial --

BALDWIN: You are?

GREENBERG: -- with the true facts we now know. Sure, if we have to, we will.

The city law department released that statement. It's a great statement except that this came out in the middle of trial, and they did nothing about it then. They spent -- it's now come out $450,000 trying to justify the attorney's actions, fighting us tooth and nail for the last year over whether what he did was even wrong. They blamed us and said it was our fault. They said that the evidence that was hidden was actually favorable to the defendants, which it wasn't. Any adult would know it wasn't. And then only after the judge came out with what's the most strongly worded opinion I've seen in almost 30 years of practicing did they then allow the attorney to resign. So they haven't done one thing.

BALDWIN: On that note, let me pivot back to you, Ms. Pinex, because I know you say he should have been fired, he's resigned. I know there are questions about what should, could happen to him. For you, this won't bring your son back, but what would justice look like in this case for you?

PINEX: Well, justice would look like the officers being punished, being put in jail for murdering my son unjustly. And this thing is big. It's a whole conspiracy. Everyone that played a role in covering up my son's murder needs to be fired. Clean the system. Get the system together. That's all I'm saying.

BALDWIN: If this attorney was sitting right in front of you, what would you say to him?

PINEX: He got exactly what he deserved. You don't deserve to be a lawyer doing stuff like that. He said that the courtroom was for legitimate cases. Well, the courtroom wasn't for your shenanigans. How about that? And we are going back to court again. Thank you, Judge Chang. And he won't be there.

BALDWIN: We'll follow up with you when that happens.

Gloria Pinex, again, my condolences.

Steve Greenberg, appreciate it.

GREENBERG: Thank you.

PINEX: Thank you.

BALDWIN: And a reminder, President Barack Obama joining Anderson Cooper tomorrow for an exclusive one-hour live town hall to discuss gun violence in America. Please tune in, 8:00 eastern here on CNN.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BALDWIN: All right, we continue on with some breaking news. Thank you for being with me. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Big, big news out of Baltimore. We know there are six separate police officers all facing charges in relation to the death of Freddie Gray from last spring. That first officer whose trial just recently ended in a mistrial, that officer, William Porter, we are now being told, according to this judge here, Barry Williams, has ordered that police officer to testify in two upcoming trials. This is why it's key here. Number one, the next trial of the driver of that van, that transport van, in which Freddie Gray was taken and at some point in time ultimately potentially led to his death. He was the driver, so this officer would testify in his trial. And also in the trial of Sergeant Alicia White. The defense says they will file an appeal at the appeals court tomorrow morning on this. But this is a big deal.

Joey Jackson, one of our legal analysts, is sitting next to me.

The notion that you have this initial mistrial of this officer, now this judge is saying, you must testify --

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Huge.

BALDWIN: Huge -- in these upcoming trials.

JACKSON: It is, because we know Porter, of course, was tried and there was a mistrial. The jury couldn't reach a conclusion as to guilt or innocence. It's more significant, Brooke, because he is saying, officer Porter, that he told the driver of the van, Goodson, who is going on trial and whose motion this is about, that he told him about Freddie Gray being in dire straits or needing medical attention.

BALDWIN: Needing help, needing medical attention.

JACKSON: In addition to telling sergeant white that who was a supervisor at the time.

Now, I think this whole ruling, though, could be fraught with much difficulty. Why do I say that? Remember, the retrial that's coming up involving officer Porter based on that hung jury in June. So in the event you have a retrial, do you not have a constitutional right to invoke your right against self-incrimination? That is, I don't have to testify because things I can say could be used against me.

Now, there are two outs to that, and they're issues of immunity. The one out is that the prosecutor could have offered what we call transactional immunity. That's blanket immunity that gives immunity for all purposes, they drop the case and everything is OK. The prosecutor makes a calculated assessment. We tried you, it was way hung jury, now we have to move on to the other officers, so maybe we don't retry you and we give you this immunity. The other immunity is called use immunity. That is you can testify but anything you say --