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WORLD RIGHT NOW WITH HALA GORANI
North Korea Claims H-Bomb Detonation; China Reacts; Fellow Passengers Force Israeli Arab Couple off Flight; Marking One Year Since Charlie Hebdo Killings. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired January 6, 2016 - 15:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HALA GORANI, CNN'S "THE WORLD RIGHT NOW" ANCHOR: Tonight, North Korea says that it's tested a hydrogen bomb. Many skeptics aren't sure it was an H-
bomb at all. Former Diplomat Christopher Hill and Bill Richardson will be my guests this hour to discuss.
Also, a series of New Year sex assaults shocked Germany. Who is responsible for a string of violent attacks?
And as we approached the anniversary of the Charlie Hebdo attacks, an exclusive interview with a cartoonist who survived the terror.
Hello everyone, I'm Hala Gorani. We're live at CNN London. Thanks for being with us this hour. This is "The World Right Now."
Well, nations all around the world are rushing to condemn North Korea's claim that it tested a hydrogen bomb. But experts already are saying
scientific data does not support North Korea's claim that it was more than a relatively lower level nuclear explosion, and the White House is
especially skeptical with it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This is a serious subject. The initial analysis that's been conducted of the events that's reported
overnight is not consistent with North Korean claims of a successful hydrogen bomb test. There is nothing that's occurred in the last 24 hours
that has caused the U.S. government to change our assessment of North Korea's technical and military capabilities.
Now, I hasten to add that we're continuing the work necessary to learn more about the nuclear test that North Korea conducted last night.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: That's Josh Earnest, the White House press secretary. So that's the view from Washington today.
Paula Hancock takes a closer look at North Korea's claim from Seoul.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kim Jong-un signs the order for nuclear test number four. A handwritten note from North Korea's leader saying the
country is "Starting the year with exciting noise of the first hydrogen bomb." If this is true, it would signal a huge jump in the country's
nuclear capability. A hydrogen device far more powerful than previous atomic bombs.
But South Korea's defense ministry says it would be difficult to believe it was hydrogen according to Yonhap News Agency. Officials say it could be
days before they know for sure. Some say they may never be 100 percent certain.
Condemnation from around the world has been swift. China, one of North Korea's few allies says it opposes the tests, saying it did not have prior
knowledge of it. South Korea's President Park Geun-hye calls it a provocation which threatens people's lives.
PARK GEUN-HYE, SOUTH KOREA PRESIDENT (through translation): It is important to take stern measures with the U.N. Security Council and
international community with the United States and our allies.
HANCOCKS: The United States, Japan, the U.K. and others adding to the condemnation. South Korea's military is on alert.
North and South Korea are still technically at war. A peace treaty was never signed after the Korean War.
North Korean observers say that what Pyongyang really wants is a conversation with Washington and a recognition of its nuclear power status.
A recognition which the U.S. has said it will never give.
Paula Hancocks, CNN, Seoul.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Now, the president of the U.N. Security Council says North Korea's claim is a direct "threat to international peace and security," and member
nations are urgently working on a draft resolution. So as we were saying, the international reaction was swift.
Matt Rivers is in Beijing. He joins me now with more on China's reaction. Matt, of course China and North Korea are allies. Do we know if China was
advised beforehand that this test would take place?
MATT RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Chinese officials told reporters in an afternoon press conference here in Beijing that they had no idea that this
was coming. And I think that helped add to their anger over this. Chinese officials were very swift in coming out unequivocally condemning this
latest test from North Korea. They have been frustrated with the North Koreans for some time after the nuclear test in 2013 that the North Koreans
The Chinese went along with the international community, went along with the U.N. Security Council and did not block sanctions that were levied
against the North Koreans, and this latest test has definitely made Beijing very unhappy and will likely put further strain in the China-North Korea
GORANI: All right, Matt Rivers in Beijing, thanks very much. I want to tell you a little bit about this. Without getting into too many, of
course, scientific details, it would be significant if North Korea tested a hydrogen bomb.
[15:05:05] Why? Here's the difference between an atomic and a hydrogen bomb. North Korea's three previous nuclear tests were conducted using A-
bombs, which are made with plutonium. A hydrogen bomb is uranium-based. So if indeed it's hydrogen it's a big deal.
Experts estimate that the blast from an atomic bomb would measure 10 to 15 kilotons. A hydrogen bomb would be much more powerful, close to a 100
Atomic bombs have only been used twice in warfare by American forces on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan in 1945. Hydrogen bombs have been tested but
All right. Let's get some perspective on the significance of North Korea's claim. I'm joined now from Denver, Colorado by Ambassador Christopher
Hill. You may remember that he led the U.S. delegation during the six- party talks on North Korea's nuclear program in '07.
Ambassador, thanks for being with us. One of the things you told our colleague at another network is, we have a big problem regardless of how
big the explosion was. Why do you think?
CHRISTOPHER HILL, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO IRAQ AND SOUTH KOREA: Well first of all, the North Koreans have made it abundantly clear that they are
interested in developing a hydrogen bomb, whether they lied and said they've already been successful with it or whether they're still to be
successful with it. It's pretty clear that's what they're heading for.
And if they are successful with it and there's no reason to say they wouldn't be because they've been successful in just about every other
nuclear explosion. Then, we would have the problem of -- they would be putting a, some kind of warhead on to a missile. And the question is what
are we going to do about it?
So, I think the problem is very much there, whether or not this was a hydrogen explosion in the last 24 hours.
GORANI: And would you say that should be the biggest concern that North Korea is moving closer and closer to weaponizing this nuclear technology on
smaller warheads that could threaten neighbors and beyond?
HILL: That's precisely the concern, that they could weaponize this. Up until now, they've had devices underground. That's quite a different
matter. So, if they have succeed in putting this into a weapons design and put it into a rocket, which they haven't done yet but our concern is that
if they're moving quickly toward this, the strategy of so-called strategic patience may be a strategy that's too little and perhaps too late.
GORANI: So what do you think should happen now? You have Kim Jong-un now in power, clearly playing, according to many North Korea experts to,
perhaps, more of a domestic, internal audience than trying to use this as leverage. So, what needs to happen now to deescalate the situation here?
HILL: Well, no question, he is playing to a domestic audience. I mean, even hideous dictatorships have politics. And so, he is playing to that
domestic audience. No question.
But I think, we need to be very -- we need to realize that we have allies in the region who are very much concerned about this. So we need, first of
all, to emphasize to the South Koreans and the Japanese that our alliance means something, in fact, that our nuclear umbrella means something for
So, we don't want anyone talking in South Korea and Japan about somehow going off on their own nuclear program. So far that hasn't happened. But,
this announcement or the expectation that at some point they could do this, I think is very worrisome to those public. So that's, I think, job one.
I think the second issue has to be to really work with the Chinese and to set this as a top priority in the relationship we have with China. You
know, I know we have a million trade issues to deal with. I know we have all kinds of problems with China. We need to really focus on North Korea
as problem number one and see what we can do to overcome Chinese mistrust about the United States with respect to our strategic interests.
GORANI: And we're hearing that China wasn't made aware apparently, of this test. I mean, does anyone -- if China doesn't have leverage over North
Korea, what country has leverage over North Korea?
HILL: Well, you're absolutely right. I mean, the only country that has any kind of leverage is China and it's often overstated by us but it
certainly understated by them. So I think there is leverage in China. And we need to sit down with them and make sure they don't have any
apprehensions about what we might do.
For example, were North Korea to somehow collapse and, which is not to be ruled out but we don't see the scenario for it right now. Would we the
United States want to take some kind of strategic advantage of this, put U.S. troops on the China border, I doubt it but I think we need to be very
reassuring to the Chinese on this. I think the Chinese need to understand that there is no stability in that region as long as this North Korean
state is there. And so, for the Chinese to always worry about civility they might think about -- think twice about what North Korea's role in
[15:10:07] GORANI: All right. Chris Hill, former ambassador, Chris Hill, joining us from Denver, Colorado. We really appreciate your take. We'll
be speaking to Bill Richardson, the former New Mexico Governor who made many trips to North Korea as well after the break. Thanks very much sir
for joining us from Colorado.
Also coming up on the program, protests in the German City of Cologne after the mass sex attacks on women on New Year's Eve. Why the city's mayor is
under fire for her advice to potential victims?
Stay with us.
GORANI: As I was telling you before the break, Germany is grappling with more than 100 criminal complaints in connection with a mass of violent
assaults on women all on New Year's Eve.
It happened in the City of Cologne mainly and whether or not recent immigrants were involved, it is rekindling the debate over Germany's
acceptance of asylum seekers.
Fred Pleitgen has our story this evening.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A day after the allegations of mass sexual assault were made public, Cologne continues to
search for the perpetrators and for answers. How could things get so out of hand? More victims are coming forward and describing their harrowing
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE, VICTIM (through translator): Suddenly we were surrounded by a group of between 20 and 30 men. They were full of anger.
And we had to make sure that no one of us was pulled away by them. They were grabbing us and we were trying to get away as quickly as possible.
PLEITGEN: Police and witnesses continue to speak of a group of up to 1,000 men groping and often robbing women at Cologne's main railway station on
New Year's Eve.
More than 100 criminal complaints have already been filed.
Germany's interior minister criticized the police's slow response to the violence and said authorities must do better in the future.
THOMAS DE MAIZIERE, GERMAN INTERIOR MINISTER (through translation): We still do not have a clear picture as to who may be behind the crimes. All
we have are some clues. The actions of the perpetrators are not acceptable.
PLEITGEN: With Germany now announcing the country took in about 1.1 million asylum seekers in 2015. The New Year's Eve incidents are causing
many to criticize Angela Merkel's Open-Arms policy. But authorities say there are no indications refugees were involved.
Meanwhile Cologne's mayor is under fire for suggesting women need to be more careful.
HENRIETTE REKE, COLOGNE MAYOR (through translator): Women would also be smart not to go and embrace everyone they meet and who seems to be nice.
Such advances could be misunderstood. And that is something every woman and every girl should protect herself from.
PLEITGEN: As the search for the perpetrators continues, questions still remain as to how this night of celebration turned sour so quickly.
Fred Pleitgen, CNN, London.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[15:15:05] GORANI: Coming up, two Arab Israelis are taken off a flight to Tel Aviv after other Israeli passengers demanded it. We'll have the
airline's response on the wider question surrounding what happened.
Plus, more on North Korea's H-bomb claim. Find out why a hydrogen bomb test would be a game-changer from its previous nuclear detonation. We'll
be right back.
GORANI: Welcome back. And back to our top story. The former New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson has traveled to North Korea on several diplomatic
and humanitarian missions.
The governor also served as the U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations and the Energy secretary. He joins me now from Santa Fe, New Mexico with more.
Governor, thanks for being with us.
Let me ask you first, why do you think as relations were starting to warm between North and South Korea that North Korea would test a nuclear bomb
now, whether it's a hydrogen bomb or not?
BILL RICHARDSON, FORMER NEW MEXICO GOVERNOR: They're sending a message. "Look, we're not going to negotiate our nuclear arsenal. And if it is,
it's going to be very tough."
Secondly, they're saying, "Look, the only troubled spot in the world is not just the Middle East, it's us too, and we need attention".
And I think, thirdly, Kim Jong-un is buttressing it internally his support within North Korea. You know, he's a little -- he's been a little shaky.
He goes after his political opponents. It's a cult of personality. But coupled with, I think a view that the world isn't paying attention to him,
so he is proceeding with his nuclear development, which should be worrisome, even though I don't believe it was hydrogen bomb.
GORANI: All right. You don't believe, why not?
RICHARDSON: Because my understanding is that it was only six kilotons. For it to be a hydrogen bomb, it's got to be 20 to 50. The United States
and Russia have this. Other countries do too.
I don't think North Korea's technology has advanced enough to get there but it's clear that they have nuclear weapons, maybe 10 ballistic missiles.
Their sophistication and their technology is improving. And they put all their resources into the defense budget and into this kind of nuclear
research. So this is worrisome. Plus the fact that they have nuclear materials that they're selling for foreign exchange possibly to Pakistan,
Iran, possibly to terrorist groups, black markets. So this is not good. This is something the international community needs to exercise some new
GORANI: How concerned should the world be that North Korea is selling some nuclear materials to whether it's a, governments or a terrorist
organizations, is that a real tangible concern right now?
RICHARDSON: It is a tangible concern because I think what is needed is an agreement like the United States and Europe had with the Iran where an
exchange for North Korea ending their nuclear development, reducing it, nuclear materials, they get some kind of food, fuel, economic assistance,
lifting of sanctions. It has to be an enforceable deal, not like some in the past.
[15:20:02] But we can't just let the situation stagnate and North Korea continue this aggression without dealing with them. And it doesn't mean
you caved in when you're dealing with them. Dialogue, diplomacy is better than then trying to ignore them. Sanctions apparently have not kept them
from stopping their nuclear development.
GORANI: Right, I was going to say, but how does Kim Jong-Un change that equation, I mean, is this a leader, North Korean leader, based on what we
know of him, of course it's very difficult to gather any kind of information independently, accurate information. But do you think this is
the kind of leader that would be willing to sit down another set of round of talks with the U.S. and regional powers?
RICHARDSON: We don't know the answer to that. We know, I've dealt with some moderate people in his regime, in the foreign ministry that we might
be able to negotiate with, but he is a mystery. He seems to be worried about his own internal status with the party, with the military. There are
reports that he ends the life of his opponents. He is somebody that does not have much foreign policy experience. He is a young man, not served in
the military. So he is not like his father or grandfather that had long leadership resumes, anyway they may not have been the best but -- and he
refuses to see any foreign leaders, any envoys, he refuses to go to China or Russia.
GORANI: How do you convince him then? I mean what does the U.S. do here? What does China do as well because apparently China wasn't even made aware
that this test was going ahead. And China is presumably, North Korea's closest friend in the region?
RICHARDSON: Well China has to realize that they have to step up. You know, this detonation, this weapon was exploded near the Chinese border.
So this affects Chinese security. And there are reports that the Chinese are furious at North Korea and you're right. They have food, fuel,
economic assistance, sanctions, leverage over North Korea. They have to step up but I think it also means United States, South Korea, Japan, and
Russia, would just started new relationships with North Korea, a new rounds of diplomacy but maybe the U.N. maybe the pope. We need a new entry into
North Korea and this new leader. And see if there's a way we can reduce the tensions, because the tensions are enormous right now, especially with
this nuclear weapon.
GORANI: Bill Richardson, thanks very much, joining us from Santa Fe, New Mexico. We appreciate your analysis on this situation. A fresh approach
perhaps, will have some sort of impact there on a worsening situation after this test. We'll keep following that story, we'll tell you a little bit
about the science as well behind the test itself and what impact it could have on the region -- the region, the region's people and the politics of
Now, to another part of the world, a Greek airline is apologizing for an incident that forced two Arab-Israelis off a plane at the demand of other
Israeli passengers. The pair had already passed security checks when they boarded Aegean Airlines flight from Athens to Tel Aviv, but a group of
passengers complained to the cabin crew. The two came up clear after additional check.
They were checked not once but twice. But the protest from the other passengers continued. The two Arab-Israelis eventually said, "Fine, we'll
get off the flight". The company paid for another flight home for them and put them out for the night.
Richard Quest is following this story and another is from New York and joins me now live. I got to ask you Richard, I mean, what kind of
precedence is this setting? You have passengers on a flight saying these two Arabs should get off. Eventually, after hours of protest, some of them
blocking the aisles, they're removed from the plane.
Is this setting are dangerous precedent where people can say, I don't like that person's origin, I don't think these gay people should be on here, I
don't think these black people should be on here?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR & REPORTER: Well no, I think you're going a bit far there. I think that this is a -- this was a
security issue here and the Airlines fount it self...
GORANI: How is that a security issue? There were cleared twice?
QUEST: It started as a security issue, the airline then finds itself in an impossible situation. And that's been recognized by the chief executive of
Aegean who's written to say (inaudible) in the Palestinian side basically saying, apologizing for what happened and describing the actions of the
other passengers as unwarranted and unfair.
But, what is the airline going to do in that situation? You really only have three choices, you either remove all the other passengers, you cancel
the flight or you ask the two passengers who were in question to leave the aircraft.
[15:25:08] And, what they did apparently...
GORANI: Yeah. No, I was going to say, look, if I buy a ticket, I go through security twice and I sit next to someone who's not happy for me to
sit next to him or her. And they say, "I'm going to block the aisle until Hala is removed." And I'm the one removed? To me, that makes no sense.
GORANI: The person is unhappy with my presence, they should leave.
QUEST: Hang on a second. By the time this thing was resolved, or not resolved, by the time it came to an ending, the common view was that it was
better for the two passengers to leave the plane for their own safety and well-being and comfort, because it would have been so unpleasant for them
to have continued on that flight. But that doesn't ignore your point. I take your point on board, Hala. The reality is though, "What would you
have had the airline do?"
GORANI: You know, listen, this is starting to become, I mean, you saw it with these two Palestinians. But let me ask you this, I'll tell you what I
Those two Palestinian-Americans in November on a flight to Philadelphia on Southwest flight, you had one passenger said, "I heard them speak Arabic,
boot them off the plane." What did they do? They called 911, the cops came and the cops said, "Sorry, they passed security. You're just going to
have to accept that they're going to be able to fly home back to where they live."
QUEST: Hala, you have the whole plane to this. You had dozens of people on this particular Aegean plane that was starting a ruckus. The airline --
and look, I agree with you that what took place was highly unsatisfactory all around. But until somebody can come up with a solution that basically
doesn't just cancel the flight, it's not easy to see that Aegean didn't do that which was sensible and in the interest of the two passengers as well
in the final analysis.
GORANI: I just wonder if doing it this way, in other words, appeasing the crowd of people who for obvious reasons didn't want these two individuals
on the flight is going to set a precedent for future flights. If you're just unhappy with the one sitting next to you, you just prevent the plane
from taking off and you get your way.
QUEST: I think there's a difference between one or two people raising a bit of a fuss and, you know, and dozens of people on the plane saying
they're unhappy. I agree. What I would have done if I was Aegean, frankly, I would have canceled the flight or remove the other passengers. I would
have just said, "We're not having any of this nonsense, this flight isn't going."
GORANI: All right. Richard, they did write a letter of apology to the two individuals. They were put in a difficult situation. Thanks very much.
Richard Quest in New York, and Richard, we'll get you at the top of the hour on "Quest Means Business."
Thank you. This is "The World Right Now."
What is so much more dangerous about a hydrogen bomb? We've discussed its geopolitical significance of North Korea's H-Bomb claim.
Next, we want to understand the scientific importance. That's coming up.
And, French's satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo publishes a special edition marking one year since terrorists rampaged through their newsroom. Stay
[15:30:32] HALA GORANI, CNN ANCHOR: Let's hear the top stories this hour. The White House is disputing North Korea's H-bomb plan. The regime have
successfully tested a hydrogen bomb but U.S experts say that is not consistent with a 5.1 seismic event recorded.
In Germany, police say more than 150 criminal complaints have now been filed in cities across the country after a speight of violent assaults on
women on New Year's Eve. There have been protests in Cologne where most of the attacks took place.
Qatar's news agency says the country is recalling its ambassador to Tehran. Qatar becomes now the latest nation to scale back its diplomatic ties to
Iran. And official says the move followed the attacked on the Saudi embassy in Tehran over the weekend. It happened after Saudi Arabia
executed a Shiite cleric, Nimr al-Nimr.
In the U.S., the house speaker has responded to President Obama's executive action on guns. Paul Ryan called the action a distraction and said,
President Obama should be more focused on tackling ISIS.
Former Republican candidates running for president have vowed to undo the order if they are elected in November.
And by the way, join CNN for a special look at guns in America with the U.S. President, Barack Obama. Anderson Cooper hosts an exclusive one-hour
live town hall event Friday at 1:00 a.m. in London on CNN.
The world is reacting to North Korea's claim with a surprising level of unity. It is basically condemnation from all corners. China, Russia, and
the United States. But the H-bomb test, if it did happen, is not the regime's first controversial step in the nuclear realm. The global
community seems unable to stop those efforts. Will Ripley reports.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: August 1998, supreme leader Kim Jong-Un is just 15 years old when his father, the late leader Kim Jong-il fires a
multistage rocket over Japan. Demonstrating North Korea's frightening potential to develop missiles to reach around the region. Then this,
October 2006, North Korea announces its first underground nuclear test, joining the small group of nations that posses nuclear weapons.
GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: The United States condemns this provocative act.
RIPLEY: The U.N. slaps crippling sanctions on an already struggling regime. But North Korea forges ahead, claiming nukes are its only
lifeline, protection from the U.S. government which it says is hell bent on toppling the regime.
In 2007, Pyongyang agrees to halt its nuclear ambitions in exchange for international aid, but it short- lived and the program resumes.
December 2012, in spite of U.N. resolutions condemning rocket launches, North Korea fires what it calls a peaceful satellite into space. Increased
sanctions stoked the north's anger further.
State media announcing a third nuclear test in February of 2013, with each test, North Korea gains valuable new knowledge in weaponizing its nuclear
technology. In May, another bombshell, North Korea claiming it has miniaturized nuclear weapons, war heads small enough to put on a missile.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the situation is very dangerous. There's constraints on his program and North Korea seems determined to build its
RIPLEY: North Korea also seems determined to develop rocket technology despite the sanctions, including recent upgrades to its launch site. U.S.
intelligence believes the facility has an underground rail line, moveable building and a cover over the launch pad, all designed to hide activity
from prying eyes in the sky. But North Korean space scientists we met in September told us their purpose is peaceful.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our launch is no threat to the U.S., said this researcher, speaking to us outside from Pyongyang's new satellite center.
RIPLEY: What can you say to the world to prove that this is not a ballistic missile program in disguise?
Why on Earth we would have any intention of trying to drop nuclear bombs on the people of the world, including the United States, said the director of
scientific research and development. But North Korea's own state media boasts a growing nuclear arsenal and willingness to strike if provoked,
this latest escalation leaves many wondering just how far is North Korea and its unpredictable young leader willing to go.
Will Ripley, CNN.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[15:35:02] GORANI: To understand why a hydrogen bomb is more dangerous than the plutonium tests North Korea has carried out, let's bring in Tom
Foreman. He is in Washington. What's the major difference? We knew it would be more significant if it were an h-bomb.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well if you think about context, that's why you will find out it is different. Take a look at the nations of the
world, of big nuclear powers out there, United States, Russia, France, China, Great Britain. These five all have hydrogen bombs. When we talk
about their atomic arsenal, that's what we're talking about.
But you to the next four, Pakistan, Indiana, North Korea and Israel, they may have hydrogen but we don't know. They tend to have lesser weapons.
So let's talk about the difference between them.
If you look at an atomic bomb in simply scientific terms, this is the fission atom, splitting apart of an atom. This is a fusion process.
You're smashing together atoms. Both release a lot of energy. This one a whole lot more.
This is a single explosion, complicated to make this work actually, especially in a miniaturized scale but it's not as complicated as a
hydrogen bomb, which is basically an atomic explosion that then triggers this fusion explosion. So it's a two-stage thing here. This shows a
higher level of technical expertise.
And while the atomic bomb will tend to be physically bigger, a bigger carrying case, it will produce a smaller blast in atomic terms compared to
a hydrogen bomb which can be smaller but produce a bigger blast addressing what Will was talking about just moment ago how the idea of it being
transportable on a missile. If they have a hydrogen bomb, they're closer to being able to deliver it somewhere, Hala.
GORANI: All right. And that's the big concern. Tom Foreman, thanks very much. Tom in Washington.
FOREMAN: You're very welcome.
GORANI: Now let's take a closer look at the speculation versus the evidence for today's event. Rebecca Johnson is the director of the
Institute for Disarmament Diplomacy, I should say. She joins me here in London. Rebecca, thanks for being with us.
All right. You just told me you were up when the news first emerged that there had been some sort of seismic event. That was no earthquake. That
was an indication that perhaps a nuclear test had taken place.
REBECCA JOHNSON, DIRECTOR, ACRONYM INSTITUTE FOR DISARMAMENT DIPLOMACY: And the e-mails came through immediately from colleagues both in the far
East, in Japan and South Korea and the U.S. saying we think this is a nuclear test. And then, a little while later, the news started to trickle
in suggesting it could have been a thermonuclear, an H-bomb test, if you like.
GORANI: And what do you think? H-bomb or not? Because the U.S. is now saying not so sure. It doesn't look like the evidence backs it up. And
why? Because the size of the bomb, smaller than an H-bomb. The other thing is the actual seismic event was between 4.9 and 5.1.
JOHNSON: I think that's a misunderstanding of what...
JOHNSON: Probably what could have been tested was what's known as the primary, which is actually the atomic, diffusion (ph) explosion that then
triggers the fusion that gives the massive explosion that we think of as an H-bomb.
So, you know, those kind of explosions tend to take place above ground. We hope to God that North Korea never tries to do an above-ground test.
So, they could have done a test for them to be able to make an H-bomb and therefore make much smaller warhead that they could possibly put on to a
GORANI: So you're not saying this wasn't a hydrogen bomb, like some are.
JOHNSON: No. I'm skeptical because North Korea in the past has sometimes exaggerated...
JOHNSON: ... what they are trying to do. But I'm also aware that when skepticism is being expressed a few months later, they do another one.
GORANI: What you are saying is that the evidence does not disprove the fact that this was an H-bomb?
JOHNSON: No, and I -- you know, and I've been looking and I've been in touch with colleagues...
JOHNSON: .. at the treaty organizations, the CTBTO, the treaty organization for the comprehensive nuclear-test-ban. They are still
assessing both the seismic and they've got -- on the International Monitoring System, they've stations in South Korea, in Japan, in China even
in Canada which are now picking up the radio nuclear signatures both from gases and...
GORANI: But do they -- I guess that -- but do the...
GORANI: Does North Korea have the know-how and technology? This is extremely sophisticated technology.
JOHNSON: The technology to do the primary for an H-bomb is not that much more sophisticated. What becomes sophisticated is can they niminiaturize
it for warheads to put on to their ballistic missiles. And I think there's still some ways -- away from that.
GORANI: Yeah, when you say way...
JOHNSON: But I think what they've demonstrated is a real intention. And that is part of -- because they see having nuclear weapons as essentially
being a currency...
JOHNSON: ... on the international power market.
GORANI: They are bargaining chip for them.
JOHNSON: More than that.
JOHNSON: I think they see it. They are a small, weak, isolated government. And, unfortunately, nowadays, there are only nine nuclear
[15:40:04] GORANI: Yeah.
JOHNSON: And most of them are increasingly insecure.
GORANI: And one of the biggest concerns and we discussed this with Bill Richardson and Chris Hill, is, you know, you are saying they are some way
away from miniaturizing this technology, putting it on warheads and being able to attack other countries, another parts of the world with nuclear
weapons, which would be the nightmare scenario.
But are they now able to sell their nuclear material abroad? Can they do that already?
JOHNSON: Actually, I mean, they are proliferator. It's mostly the materials that they've been selling and some of the technology...
GORANI: They've done it before?
JOHNSON: And some of their ballistic missiles. I don't think they would themselves even be in a position or want to risk selling the technology of
the explosions (inaudible) because the vast majority of states are non- nuclear. They are covered by the nonproliferation treaty.
Now, North Korea pulled out of that treaty and unfortunately the world didn't respond as should have happened. The second thing is, very sadly,
the major treaty that has over 180 signatories, the comprehensive test-ban treaty which should prohibit all testing and in fact should allow if only
entered (ph) into force.
JOHNSON: Inspectors to go to the site of that seismic signal and find out, was it an earthquake or, as we think, was it an underground nuclear test.
But that treaty has not entered into force, because mistakes made at the time of negotiations, meaning that the country like North Korea has
actually to exceed (ph) to the treaty before it can.
So what needs to happen now is a much stronger kind of treaty, treaty negotiation that will actualliy prohibit the use, the testing again but
without those blocks.
JOHNSON: And the deployment of nuclear weapons. That's the kind of treaty that we know need.
GORANI: I see. Fortunately, we're far from being anywhere near that stage. Rebecca Johnson of the Institute for Disarmament Diplomacy, thanks
so much for being with us. We appreciate your analysis. And don't forget, you can check out our Facebook page where we post our interviews and our
stories that we cover today on the program. Facebook.com/halagorani,cnn.
This is The World Right now still ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Is it more difficult to be funny now than before?
LAURENT SOURISSEAU, HEAD OF PUBLICATION, CHARLIE HEBDO (THROUGH TRANSLATION): No. We always manage to find the urge to laugh, because we
have the will to live.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: He was at the center of the terrorist attack that unfolded in France one year ago tomorrow. And now the cartoonist known as Riss sits
down with CNN' (inaudible) how the magazine and country have both changed so much.
And taking the petal off the metal, we'll give behind the wheel of a new smart car, driverless car. We'll be right back.
[15:45:14] GORANI: It's now the world's most famous satirical magazine because tragedy pressed (ph) Charlie Hebdo into the spotlight exactly one
year ago tomorrow.
On January 7th, 2015, terrorists stormed their newsroom. They killed 12 people, including some of France's most famous cartoonists.
Now I have it here. And this is the thing about Charlie Hebdo. You might think it's funny. You might think it's in bad taste. Whatever you think
of it, it's always a talker. Charlie Hebdo is marking the anniversary of the special edition. The cover says "One year on, the assassin is still
And now it features a characterization of God, of all Gods, in monotheistic space in keeping with the magazine's controversial stone (ph). You have
this God figure running away with blood on his hands and Kalashnikov strapped to his back. Some people are very unhappy about it.
Now the killing continued, of course, in France days after January 7th. Five people died in related attacks. French people came together in the
aftermath often under the banner jesus al.ie. You remember those days I'm sure. And it wasn't the end of this terror for France as we all know.
Now cartoonist Laurent Sourisseau known as Riss survived the attacked. He's the magazine's head of publication and he gave an exclusive interview
to our Jim Bitterman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SOURISSEAU (THROUGH TRANSLATION): This past year has been very difficult. We had to rebuild the newspaper. We have to rebuild ourselves. Confront
our pain. So it is on the one hand personal struggle. It was a personal fight. So here we are one year later with a vision which might be even a
little more pessimistic today than it was one year ago.
BITTERMANN: Is it more difficult to be funny now than before?
SOURISSEAU (THROUGH TRANSLATION): No. We always manage to find the urge to laugh, because we have the will to live, to laugh is like going to the
restaurant. It's like going to a musical for drinks. It's a pleasure that one has to continue to have. We don't have less of an urge to laugh.
BITTERMANN: I think you said that you are no longer going to do any caricatures of Mohammed. Why is that?
SOURISSEAU (THROUGH TRANSLATION): I didn't say that. I said it was a question of circumstances and we don't rule out anything. Maybe one day
again we'll draw Mohammed as a matter of principle.
BITTERMANN: Are you worried today about another attack? Are you always looking over your shoulder?
SOURISSEAU (THROUGH TRANSLATION): We always have to be careful. We still have police protection. And at the newspaper, we installed top security
measures. But, yes, we work with that idea in the back of our mind. That maybe something someday may happen again.
Is freedom of speech more difficult to have than before? I think it is still as hard. I think it wasn't easier before. We need to separate two
things. The French law allows for a lot of freedom. In the end, that's what counts, that the law prevails to protect us. After that, one has to
have the courage to seize that right and put it to use. We can't sink into self-censorship.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: And that was one of the cartoonists. On last night show, I interviewed the Republican Congressman Mo Brooks about his opposition to
the president's gun control plans. And during my questions, I stated that Mr. Brooks had voted against specific legislation expanding background
checks in 2013. In fact, he did not vote on that piece of legislation. And we're happy to set the record straight there.
A lot more ahead on The World Right Now, driving smarter, not harder. Our correspondent takes this connected car for a spin at the Consumer
We'll be right back.
[15:50:36] GORANI: Pull up a comfortable chair and pop some popcorn. That's what I'm doing this evening. Because the streaming video service
Netflix is now available to binge watchers in India, Poland, Russia and 127 other countries. And to all of you, I say to you, I'll see you next year
because you have to lot to catch up on.
The company CEO said Netflix is now live in nearly every country but China. He told us at the consumer electronics show in Las Vegas "You are
witnessing the birth of a global T.V. network." Just one of the big tech advancements coming out of that show. Samuel Burke joins me live from
Vegas with more.
Samuel, I remember when Netflix was being written off like it was going to be the next blockbuster. I remember when it was the DVDs that you have to
send back through the mail. And look at it now?
SAMUEL BURKE, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: They had that plan to split the company into two, just DVDs and on the other side this thing called
streaming at the time, that caused the stock to take. But they recovered. They decided not to split the companies and it forged on as one very strong
That number that you cited, Hala, at 130 countries it's available. That's just the amount of countries they turned on to switch board today during
that speech that Reed Hastings, the CEO of Netflix gave here at CES. .In total, they are available in about 190 countries. I just Googled, they're
just about over 200 countries in the world. So incredible (inaudible).
But again, China is the holdout. And that's what's very difficult. Interesting because here at CES we see so many tech companies that have
done well in China, that have experienced incredible revenue growth because of China. But those are gadget companies. If you are a company like
Netflix, Facebook, Google, Twitter, where you are dealing with content and many times censorship, they are not prospering, because of course they
can't enter china.
GORANI: And it's the original programming as well. I mean we'll see if China eventually becomes one of their markets. All right, driverless car,
did you -- I supposed you take a driverless car for a spin, hopefully there's nobody is driving it.
BURKE: All right, thank you for the spin. This is the third year that I've been in a self-driving car. I tried to call on that because you still
need a driver in of it. This is Microsoft's smart car. The thing that really stood out to me about this car, Hala, is that now that you don't
have to drive, they want to put you back to work. You can use Cortana, that's Microsoft's version of Siri to write e-mail. I was in the driver
seat or is that the driverless seat dictating e-mails to it while it was focusing on the road.
So now maybe the company that don't have us working enough on our Blackberrys and in our iPhones all the time can get as working in our cars.
But what really stood out to me in this smart car was the fact that they were showing me that you really need smart infrastructure. We always think
that for smart car it's all about what's in the car. But Microsoft believes you're going to have to have smart stoplights for instance. It's
not just enough the camera can't really read the stoplight well enough on a driverless car.
So they think you're going to need smart stoplight for instance, but something else that really caught my attention was the car slow down when
there is a passenger hitting from view between two cars. The smart car slowed down because it detected a smart bracelet that she was wearing. The
Microsoft has in the future. They just sent to the smartphone near the car that it might slow down if a passenger is just too close to this self-
At the end of the day, this is the about safety and all the experts say "Car is machine, smarter than man, " and that there'll be much safer than
we are on the road.
GORANI: All right. Thanks very much. Samuel Burke having fun in Vegas. Once again testing out all the gadgets and the cars and the rest of it.
And we'll catch up with Samuel a little bit later.
Now, the new Star Wars film continues to shatter box office records. Its popularity is giving Star Wars related merchandise big boost. The creator
though of the original Star Wars stormtrooper helmet says sales of the helmets have jumped to ten-fold. Interestingly, and you may not know this,
though, they are barred from being sold in the United States. Do you wonder why? Nick Glass explains.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICK GLASS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Not so long ago, not it should be said in a galaxy far, far away, something menacing emerged out of the whiteness and
just kept on coming. A production line of Star Wars storm troopers. And a proud Englishman stood on a patch of grass in the London suburbs and showed
us his gleaming helmet. This is the guy who fought George Lucas in the British courts and won.
[15:55:20] How many courts did you have to go through?
ANDREW AINSWORTH, STAR WARS STORMTROOPER DESIGNER, MANUFACTURER: Three.
AINSWORTH: The High Court, the Appeal Court and then the Supreme Court.
GLASS: And you won every time?
AINSWORTH: We won every time.
GLASS: And though Ainsworth still has the same workshop, he had when he helped on Star Wars precisely 40 years ago. George Lucas was in pre-
production on the first movie at Elstree Studios s an hour or so away and wanted props quickly. Ainsworth was given just two small graphic images to
AINSWORTH: They were lovely for someone like me. That's more than enough information to just animate in two days, the helmet.
GLASS: Two days?
AINSWORTH: Two days, yes, from sculpting the molds and making the molding process work and getting, you know, moldings off because he had one -- to
add mold and then subtract from another mold.
GLASS: This is Ainsworth's original metal mold from 1976. For almost 30 years, he forgot about it until he needed money for school fees, made a few
more helmets and sold them. George Lucas promptly sued him.
AINSWORTH: Because we honestly believed nobody can stop you being the artist that you are. They can't take it away from you. They can't cut
your hands off and say you can't use them anymore. It was that ridiculous to us. It's no-brainer. You have to defend it.
GLASS: The case lasted nine long years. Ainsworth is only just paid off his huge legal bill.
How much was it?
AINSWORTH: I rather not say. But it was an awful lot.
GLASS: Hundreds of thousands, or millions?
GLASS: The British ruling was that the helmet was a piece of industrial design. Sold out copyright so production could resume. With the new Star
Wars movie out, demand as increased at least ten-fold and Ainsworth is finally about to make some money.
Back in '76, 20 for the helmets.
GLASS: And now?
AINSWORTH: We sold it for 500 of the originals. But we have to cut it to 200.
GLASS: Can you ever imagine it would turn out like this?
GLASS: Because they didn't.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Thanks for watching this has been The World Right Now. I'll see you here tomorrow. Same time, same place. I'm Hala Gorani. And Quest
Means Business is up next. So don't go anywhere.