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Philadelphia Police Officer Shot; President Obama Tackles Gun Control; El Chapo Captured. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired January 08, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: The man the FBI has called the most influential drug trafficker in the world has been caught. And we are now learning from a Mexican law enforcement official that several people died as authorities captured the Sinaloa cartel leader known as El Chapo.

The senior official say the takedown happened at 4:30 in the morning -- this is local time -- in the town of Los Mochis in Sinaloa and that those killed were from El Chapo's organization.

The nation's president tweeted immediately -- quoting him here -- "Mission accomplished. We have him. I want to inform the Mexican people that Joaquin Guzman Loera has been arrested."

With me now, Guillermo Galdos, journalist and filmmaker of "Drug Lord: The Legend of Shorty," Shorty being the translation for El Chapo. Duncan Wood, an expert on the Mexican drug wars, he leads the Mexico Institute at the Wilson Center.

But, first, we're going to go to CNN Latin America affairs editor Rafael Romo with the late-breaking details on how this went down.

Rafael, tell me everything.

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN SENIOR LATIN AMERICAN AFFAIRS EDITOR: Brooke, we're hearing two different stories from the Mexican side.

One story is what you have just reported, that a Mexican source, intelligence source, is telling us that there was an operation at 4:30 in the morning and there was a shoot-out where several people belonging to El Chapo's hit men died when they faced the Mexican navy. And that's where El Chapo was captured.

There was also a press release issued by the Mexican government where they say that there was a report of armed people in one house in the city of Los Mochis. This is in the state of Sinaloa. This is home base for El Chapo, where the Marines went. And there was some sort of shoot-out, but the forces were able to win that battle.

What is clear and what the Mexican president has confirmed is that the number one most wanted man in Mexico and the United States was Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman, was captured today. Mexican officials are also saying that within this hour there will be a press conference to confirm some of the details that we have been talking about.

This is huge for Mexico, Brooke. I can't overemphasize this. It is a man that they had been looking for, for 182 days since he escaped on July 11 last year. This was the second time he escaped. And he is the leader of the Sinaloa cartel, a vast criminal organization that traffics cocaine and heroin by the chunk to the United States, as well as other parts of the world, including Europe and Asia, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Rafael, thank you.

Guillermo, to you. You made the movie on El Chapo. The fact that they have now found him in this sort of deadly firefight back in his home turf of the Sinaloa state, your reaction to that, that he went home?

GUILLERMO GALDOS, JOURNALIST: When we did the film, what we wanted to prove was that at least everybody knew where El Chapo Was. El Chapo was always in Sinaloa. He always moved around the Golden Triangle, where we went to film. That's where his mother lives.

And that's where most of his associates come from. So, yes, I am surprised they recaptured him this fast. I thought that he was not going to allow him to be captured alive, because he knows that now he's going straight to America, or that's what I think is going to happen, because the Mexicans have shown that they were unable to hold him.

And now I'm sure the American authorities will want him quite quickly on American soil. But the big question, for me, is, OK, they have got El Chapo, but I can guarantee you that not a single kilo of cocaine will be stopped from being exporting to America or to other parts of the world on behalf to Sinaloa cartel because he has been arrested.

At the moment, there is a fight inside the cartel to see who is going to replace him. And I'm sure that somebody will start doing his job pretty soon.

BALDWIN: Guillermo, that's interesting what you say about cocaine. I'm sure he's long known obviously he's a wanted man and has sort of a hierarchy in place for if and when he's caught.

But I'm wondering if you know sort of the core group of El Chapo's inner circle, and who would have been with him potentially in the middle of the night when they found him?

GALDOS: Well, it would be people very close to him, security guards that probably grew up in the same area where he grew up and people that were willing to give their lives for him. What I know is that five people have been killed and six others have been captured.

[15:05:00]

But it's a big difference if you compare to the last time they arrested him. Last time, when he arrested, he was alone with one guy, with his wife and with his twins. Clearly, now, he knew that the security situation is -- it was difficult for him. And until recently, El Chapo did not run from the authorities. El Chapo run from his enemies, from rival cartels.

So now, obviously, Los Mochis and the area where he was arrested is a pretty hot area. There are two different cartels fighting to control that area. And, obviously, I think that it's not easy to walk around with 12 armed bodyguards and bulletproof cars, is it?

So I'm surprised they captured him alive. But now, again, if they have captured him alive, what I would like to see is the names of the entrepreneurs, the bankers, the lawyers, and all the people who allowed El Chapo to become El Chapo.

BALDWIN: Guillermo, stay with me, please.

Duncan Wood, let me bring you in, expert on Mexican drug wars. You lead the Mexico Institute at the Wilson Center.

I think the thing that Guillermo said that spoke volumes to me, if we're talking about deaths and injuries on the El Chapo side in this whole takedown, the loyalty, the loyalty that these people in his inner circle and I'm sure beyond have to this man is undeniable.

DUNCAN WOOD, WILSON CENTER: Yes, I mean, I think it's not just in his inner circle. I think we have to recognize that within the communities of Sinaloa, this is a man who has achieved legendary, mythical status maybe.

He's a man who has provided certain basic social services to poorer Mexicans where the Mexican government may have failed them. And, in addition, he's thumbed his nose repeatedly at Mexican authorities, saying come and get me, here I am. And they weren't able to do it.

And then, of course, he has escaped twice from prison. So the guy really does have that legendary status. And that's helped him in his attempts to hide from the authorities in the state of Sinaloa since he escaped this second time.

Now, the fact is, is that the Sinaloa cartel as an organization, and we have to see it not just as a criminal organization, but as a business, recognizes that its interests are closely tied with maintaining some form of legitimacy with the local community there. And that's what's led them to support not only El Chapo, but the crime group in general.

BALDWIN: But the fact, Duncan, that he wasn't killed, that he went alive -- obviously, we were not there. We don't know what was said in those final moments before he was hauled off, but what do you think he would have been thinking? What would he have been saying to the marines or the Mexican navy as they grabbed him?

WOOD: Well, pure speculation, of course, but remember that very recently they came close to capturing him. There was another gunfight. He escaped. He apparently fell off a cliff and was injured in that. There was another gunfight there.

BALDWIN: Yes. WOOD: I would imagine that he's surprised that he's been caught. And

to be honest with you, I think, as Guillermo and Rafael both said, this is actually a big surprise that the Mexican government with enormous help, I'm sure, from the U.S. authorities has been able to track him down.

So, part of his reaction will have been surprise. Secondly, I think he's going to be recognizing, of course, that extradition is imminent to the United States. And he will be thinking about what his strategy is going to be in terms of plea bargaining, turning over information.

And that can be enormously damaging not just for Mexican business interests who may have been involved with the crime group, but also, of course, for Mexican politicians, particularly at the local level. It remains to be seen what will actually happen when he begins to spill that information. But it's going to be incredibly interesting to find out.

BALDWIN: Rafael, back to you.

Remind me of the cases here in the United States that have really stacked up against him through the years.

ROMO: Yes, there are multiple cases in different jurisdictions here in the United States. And I can mention the states where he is being sought, where he is wanted, Arizona, California, Texas, Illinois, New York and Florida.

And we were talking about -- we were talking earlier about the fact that, for a long time, officials say that El Chapo has used places like Chicago as a hub to distribute cocaine and heroin to different parts of the United States.

So, you would expect officials to be talking to Mexico right now, to the Mexican government, and seeking a very, very fast extradition of Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman to the United States, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Rafael, thank you.

[15:10:00]

Zeke Unger, you're back with me, former bounty hunter, very familiar with this sort of extradition process and these centers in Mexico where he's likely perhaps sitting. But to you, when we learn about this fatal standoff, that multiple agencies were involved, what would that have looked like in the cover of darkness there in Sinaloa?

ZEKE UNGER, BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, basically, when you have special operations groups that are working together, of course, this came together relatively quickly.

I'm sure that they had a tip or some information where he was, so they had to amass relatively quickly. They did an advance on the location. They got the bearings and where they were going to set up.

Evidently, the hardest thing in Mexico is to keep it a secret because of the corruption. And when these cartels get ahold of the information prior to the agents going there, you see that we end up with a firefight.

So, basically, I think what's going to happen is, I think that he will be brought back. The (SPEAKING SPANISH) will fail him. He will be brought back by the U.S. Marshals Service and brought to a federal correction facility here in the United States.

BALDWIN: And the U.S. would say, this time, he's not going anywhere.

Zeke and Guillermo and Duncan and Rafael, thank you all so much. We promise we will come back to you.

But we have to pivot it to the other breaking story here, as we're getting new information on this would-be assassination attempt of a Philadelphia police officer, new information on the shooter's criminal history. It's extensive and an update on how the officer, this hero officer, is doing.

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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BALDWIN: We're back with the breaking news on this Friday afternoon. Thank you for being with me. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

[15:15:04]

And let's look at our first picture. Here he is of this ISIS-inspired gunman who police say ambushed and shot a Philadelphia police officer 13 different times point-blank range, apparently as he confessed in the name of Islam.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPT. JAMES CLARK, PHILADELPHIA POLICE DEPARTMENT: He stated that he pledges his allegiance to Islamic State. He follows Allah and that is the reason he was called upon to do this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: His assassination attempt of this officer caught on surveillance video. And you can see how close he gets to this officer in this tight confined space of this patrol car, running up to the driver's side, firing round after round, and in this image, the shooter with his hands and his pistol all the way inside of that patrol car.

The officer was alone seated in there at the other end of this gun, the scene a Philadelphia police commissioner calls the scariest thing he's ever seen. He spoke just about an hour ago, talking about the terror unfolding in this frantic police dispatch call.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

JESSE HARTNETT, PHILADELPHIA POLICE DEPARTMENT: Got some shots fired. I'm shot. I'm bleeding heavily.

911 OPERATOR: All cars stand by. We have an officer shot, 6-0 and Spruce. Repeating in the 18th District, assist the officer 6-0 and Spruce. We have an officer down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm bleeding. Get us another unit out here, 6-0 and Spruce. Please send me some units to 6-0 and Irving (INAUDIBLE) weapon out here. It's urgent.

911 OPERATOR: Sir, we have officers en route to you.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Chilling, chilling to listen to that. Incredibly, three of the 13 bullets hit his intended target; 33-year-old officer Jesse Hartnett expected to make a full recovery.

Let's first take you straight to Philadelphia to my colleague Miguel Marquez.

Miguel, tell me more about this -- obviously, I want to hear about the officer and how he's doing, but also this gunman and what he said when he confessed.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

This is what officers, the police department here and the FBI are trying to understand right now. Is this claim of doing this in the name of ISIS, pledging his allegiance to the Islamic State, that he follows Allah and this is why he did what he did, is that anything that is based in reality? Is it something that he talked to others about? Is there any sort of evidence to suggest that he did this on orders from anyone or was encouraged by others or is this somebody who was self-motivated and basically a lone wolf type of character?

The incident that occurred here in Philadelphia last night and the work by 33-year-old Jesse Hartnett is unbelievable. The fact that this was an officer who was on routine patrol, had his window down in a West Philadelphia suburb and was just driving along, was flagged down by this individual, and then to see those photographs, one after another after another shot, the hand inside the car, as you say, at one point, and then the officer jumps out of the car, chases him down, shoots him in the butt, stops him, so that other officers can come and arrest him, all while losing blood.

The officer is very badly hurt. One of those bullets broke a bone, extensive nerve damage to his left arm as well. It's not clear how well he will do. But the fact that he was bleeding, speaking to the dispatcher, because we had the dispatch sound with him actually telling the dispatcher his own condition, shooting this guy, taking him down and directing other police to him just defies logic.

The police commissioner was shocked that he survived. The fact that he lost so much blood along the way of this is incredible, but now police looking into the life of Edward Archer and trying to figure out everything about him and just how real that claim of doing this in the name of the Islamic State is -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: The investigation has just begun. Obviously wishing that officer a speedy recovery, despite what happened to him. Incredible, what he was able to do. Miguel Marquez, thank you.

I have Steve Rogers with me, former FBI Terrorism Task Force, and Michael Smerconish, who hosts "SMERCONISH" Saturday mornings on CNN and who calls Philadelphia his home.

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: That's a Philly grit story, right? A wounded cop shot at 13 shots, hit three, and gives chase.

BALDWIN: Unbelievable.

SMERCONISH: Unbelievable. Thank God he's alive.

Hey, I just came up from Philadelphia. And here's what's on people's minds at home. We consider ourselves to be a world-class city. We have Independence Hall and the Liberty Bell and the National Constitution Center. The pope just visited. The Democrats are coming this summer.

And we're now wondering what form of terror has just hit the City of Brotherly Love? It's some form of terror. Was it directly connected to ISIS? Is this guy just off and committing these crimes in the name of ISIS? Frankly, does it even matter, if it spurs copycats? But has terror finally reached our city limits? Apparently so.

[15:20:01]

BALDWIN: Apparently, also, as we're learning a little bit more on this guy's criminal history, the police chief calling his criminal history extensive.

Steve, to you, Prior gun charges, apparently faced some sort of terroristic threat charge, threatened a woman in domestic dispute. That was dropped. Pleaded guilty last year for carrying a gun without a license, also pleaded guilty for simple assault. He was sentenced for a number of months.

Just looking into his past and sort of trying to connect the dots here...

STEVE ROGERS, FORMER FBI AGENT: Doesn't this speak to the issue of career criminals? They have to go behind bars and stay there forever.

This is the nightmare of police officers. We arrest these people. We put them behind bars, Brooke. Six months, seven months, a year, maybe two, and some of the worst criminals are released to go back out on the streets and to commit crimes.

You're absolutely right, my friend. The battle is here. America has been attacked because a police officer unfortunately in your fine city, who is the first line of defense for the American people, is now a victim of terrorism. We don't know and we don't want to lead people to believe that there is an exact terrorist connection, but it could be a lone wolf type homegrown terrorist act. And we have got to worry about, as you said, copycats. I'm very, very worried about that.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: So, moving forward, we talked about -- I keep bringing up the hatchet attack, but to me that is the first sort of memory. What was that, like a year ago here in New York. And ISIS has issued this directive to whoever, to freelance would-be terrorists to go after law enforcement specifically, run them over, and here you see what happened in Paris, that thwarted attempt a couple of days ago, and now what has happened here in Philadelphia.

It is frightening. But they need to find out more as far as motivation is concerned.

ROGERS: And they need to -- the Department of Homeland Security needs to start sending more funding to local police departments. They need the money for two-man patrols. They need the money for the equipment, but especially the intelligence gathering apparatus. They need a lot of that here on the ground in every city and town across America.

SMERCONISH: It's the first week of a new administration. Jim Kenney has just over as mayor of Philadelphia. Michael Nutter was on our airwaves last night talking about Anderson's gun event with the president.

BALDWIN: Right. Talked to him yesterday.

SMERCONISH: We have a brand-new police commissioner in Richard Ross. We had a world-class police commissioner in Chuck Ramsey. He's just left the job. So three, four days in, this is what they are dealing with, the new leaders.

ROGERS: And you have got to stand proud.

When I saw those gentlemen, this new administration on that TV screen, handle this admirably , for the nation to see how well your city is put together, I'll tell you what. I hand it to you.

SMERCONISH: First concern, of course, is the well-being of the police officer and figuring out what this really is all about.

You know what comes, though, tomorrow and the next day, the political ramifications of this. It will be fodder, I'm sure, almost immediately.

BALDWIN: You have a lot on your table come tomorrow morning, Michael Smerconish.

SMERCONISH: That's true. Thank you.

BALDWIN: Thank you very much. Michael Smerconish and Steve Rogers, thank to you.

From Philadelphia to Mexico, we go. As we have been getting these late-breaking details on this arrest involving multiple agencies swooping in middle of the night in the Sinaloa state. This is El Chapo's home turf. They caught him. We now have video, pictures inside of the raid. We will share that with you next here on CNN.

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[15:26:55]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: There's a lot of people out there who don't trust you, obviously, on the issue of guns. You keep saying you don't want to take away everybody's guns, but there's a lot of people out there tonight watching who don't believe you. There's a lot of people in this room who, frankly, don't believe you.

I want to thank everybody here who took part, everyone who made this vital conversation possible.

BALDWIN: The town hall just wrapped about two minutes ago. The president took a moment to really sort of walk around and shake hands with almost everyone in the room.

And then he was escorted out with Secret Service. It was a tremendous moment here live on CNN, this town hall space at George Mason University.

And I just want to get immediate reaction from some of the folks who were here in the audience and who got to ask questions of the president of the United States. Let's ask.

You were the very first, asked the very first question.

TAYA KYLE, WIDOW OF CHRIS KYLE: Your message of hope is something I agree with. And I think it's great. And I think that by creating new laws, you do give people hope. The thing is that the laws that we create don't stop these horrific things from happening, right? And that's a very tough pill to swallow.

We want to think that we can make a law and people will follow it. By the very nature of their crime, they're not following it.

BALDWIN: Were you satisfied with the president's answer?

KYLE: I think that, unfortunately, a lot of it there, there just isn't time to get deeper into issues.

But there's a lot more that of course I would have wanted to say. And I would like to ask him to please not use executive order and make one man's decision impact a lot of people and go through this due process and all of that.

But I think that there's probably a very tactful way to answer all of the good questions that were here tonight without fully addressing them or fully answering. I think he got close sometimes, but I also think there are some things that he could -- he kind of skirted around without really answering directly. The sheriff's question was one of them I don't think was answered directly. PAUL BABEU, PINAL COUNTY, ARIZONA, SHERIFF: What I wanted to hear

from the president is, we all want to get to the solution. I'm a cop. I want people safe. And that's what we do for our jobs. We put our lives on the line. We don't want to see anybody hurt, certainly not killed.

And how do we get to this issue, when it's mainly criminals who get their name because they don't follow the law? The real issue here is those with mental health concerns and criminals.

KYLE: I feel like there's going to be a figurehead for each side of the issue. It doesn't necessarily represent the entire population of the United States. Neither one of those, neither the president nor the NRA represents perfectly the large number of people in this country.

OBAMA: When I see you, I think about my own youth, because I wasn't that different from you, probably not as articulate and maybe more of a goof-off.

But the main difference was, I lived in a more forgiving environment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And his answer to me really -- it just really inspired me, really.

REV. MICHAEL PFLEGER, CHICAGO ACTIVIST: I don't know how many times he can explain or how many times he can say it. He's not trying to take guns away.

He just wants to try to curb the illegal guns and the easy access to guns to people that are going to use them for bad things and for killing people. People are dying out here. Children are dying on the streets of Chicago.

I'm tried -- I have another funeral of a 15-year-old this week coming up. And I think, how many times do you convince people? What does it -- what does he have to do to say: "I'm not trying to take your guns away; I just want to save some lives"?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you guys be in favor of removing restrictions for honest Americans --