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ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT
New Video: ISIS-Inspired Gunman Shooting Officer; Feds Arrest Two Refugees with Alleged Terror Ties; Trump Uses Bill Clinton's Affairs Against Hillary; Notorious Drug Lord Caught; En Route to Military Base; Maine Governor Insists Drug Remarks Weren't Racist; New Break in Manhunt for Paris Terror Fugitive. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired January 8, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:10] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Next, breaking news. A man pledging allegiance to ISIS shoots a Philadelphia police officer at point-blank range. New details at this hour about the man's violent past.
Plus more breaking news, Mexican's drug lord El Chapo captured in a deadly shootout. Tonight, how authorities caught one of the world's most wanted man.
And Donald Trump live this hour. A new poll shows Ted Cruz gaining on Trump nationally and holding the lead in Iowa. What's going on? Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening. Everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan in for Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, breaking news, a man pledging allegiance to ISIS opens fire on a Philadelphia police officer, shooting execution-style firing 13 shots at point-blank range striking the officer in his patrol car three times. We're now learning that the gunman has a criminal record and a violent past. Police just released this very dramatic video of the shooting playing out. The gunman getting so close that he even reaches inside the car and amazingly you saw it right there, the officer, Jesse Hartnett was able to get out, return fire hitting the shooter. That man was later arrested.
Around the country, Police Departments are warned of more attacks. The NYPD issued an alert to all of its officers calling for heightened vigilance in light of attacks on police both here and abroad.
Miguel Marquez is OUTFRONT right now in Philadelphia. So, Miguel, what more do we know about this gunman's motive?
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, authorities are digging into the life of Edward Archer. They know that he claimed allegiance to ISIS but beyond that, he said that the teachings of Islam were contrary to police work.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have an officer shot.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): A horrifying scene in Philadelphia. That's 30- year-old Edward Archer, say police, brandishing a nine-millimeter semi-automatic handgun, firing into the police car of 33-year-old Police Officer Jesse Hartnett. Archer moves to the window. The gun inside the car firing at least 11 shots, hitting the officer three times in the left arm.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shots fired! I'm shot! I'm bleeding heavily.
MARQUEZ: Incredibly, the police officer not only survived, he chased his attacker down, shooting him in the butt, stopping him while bleeding profusely. His left arm unusable speaking to the dispatcher all at the same time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have an officer shot.
COMMISSIONER RICHARD ROSS, PHILADELPHIA POLICE DEPARTMENT: And by the grace of God, this person foremost but as I can't explain it based on my beliefs in any other way. But under those circumstances, man, I can't imagine that almost anything you could have could protect you. That is chilling. Absolutely chilling when you watch that and if that doesn't just make the hair on your neck raise when you hear that, it's scary.
MARQUEZ: Police say the attacker used a handgun stolen from police in 2013 and confessed he was inspired by ISIS.
CAPTAIN JAMES CLARK, PHILADELPHIA POLICE HOMICIDE UNIT: He pledges his allegiance to Islamic State. He follows Allah and that is the reason he was called upon to do this.
MARQUEZ: Authorities now digging into the life and past of 30-year- old Edward Archer.
ROSS: According to him, he believes that the police defend laws that are contrary to the teachings of the Koran.
MARQUEZ: FBI searching through properties related to Archer trying to determine just how deeply, if at all, he is tied to international terror groups.
MARQUEZ: Now, despite the fact that he was hit in the arm, there were very serious injuries to Officer Hartnett. One went through the bone shuttering it, another hit an artery and there was a lot of a nerve damage throughout the arm as well. There's going to be a lot of surgery ahead and a lot of time before we will see that he can ever return to the police force -- Kate.
BOLDUAN: But it's still amazing when you see that video that that officer survived just amazing. Miguel, thank you so much.
And also tonight, disturbing details are emerging about two men arrested here in the U.S. on other terror-related charges. According to officials, both men are Palestinians born in Iraq who came here as refugees. One of them arrested in Texas, the other in California. They are charged with trying to provide material support to ISIS and also lying to U.S. officials about their connections to terror organizations.
Justice Correspondent Pamela Brown is OUTFRONT. So, Pamela, what more are officials saying about these refugees and what they were trying to do?
PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, officials are saying that this two men, 24-year-old Omar Al Hardan from Houston and 23-year-old Aws Mohammed Al-Jayab Maoman of Sacramento had allegedly been discussing with one another about training with terrorist in Syria online in 2013. Both men were from Iraq and came to the U.S. as refugees. The criminal complaint says that one of the men Al-Jayab had actually emigrated to the U.S. from Syria and then allegedly returned a year later to fight with terrorists before being allowed back into the United States in 2014. Al Hardan on the other hand is charged with providing material support to ISIS. Both of these men are accused of lying to the federal immigration officials about their alleged ties to terrorism. And, Kate, these arrests come five years after two other Iraqi refugees were arrested on terrorism charges after their fingerprints were found on bombs used against U.S. soldiers.
[19:05:34] BOLDUAN: So, Pamela, these arrests, they are already raising new questions about refugees resettling in the United States. What do you say?
BROWN: That's right. They're certainly fueling debate about whether refugee screening is sufficient as the U.S. is considering allowing in at least 10,000 Syrian refugees over the next year. House Homeland Security Chairman Mike McCaul held a press conference today saying that these arrests show why the U.S. should clamp down on letting Syrian refugees in. And Ted Cruz weighed in on the campaign trail today. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Just last night, two alleged terrorists were arrested. One in California and one in my hometown of Houston, both were Iraqi refugees. Both came in through the vetting programs that President Obama tells us are perfectly effective for vetting terrorists.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And the administration has said though that it has strengthened refugee screening more recently, with multiple layers of security including in person interviews and biometrics testing, and those coming from Syria undergo the most rigid screening that could take two years. The administration also points out a majority of the hundreds of thousands of refugees allowed into the U.S. are law- abiding -- Kate.
BOLDUAN: It's not going to stop the debate as you see it right there from Ted Cruz. Pamela Brown, thank you so much.
OUTFRONT with us now, Seth Jones, director at the security firm RAND Corporation and Phil Mudd, a former CIA counterterrorism official. Gentlemen, thank you so much.
Phil, first, let's talk about this case that Pamela Brown was just talking about. When you look at these two terrorists, one guy arrived here in 20009, the other in 2012, that's before ISIS was ISIS. What do you think is going on here?
PHIL MUDD, FORMER CIA COUNTERTERRORISM OFFICIAL: To me, the significance of this is not what happened in terms of immigration. It's the pervasiveness and power of the ISIS message. If you contrast where we are to where we were 15 years ago, you think about how infrequently al Qaeda appeared on TV with older guys who droned on periodically about Islamic scriptures. They didn't recruit as broadly as ISIS did. Now today, we have kids being turned on more quickly in ways they might have been turned on five or ten years ago. Pervasive message over social media. It's far more powerful I think Kate, that what we ever saw from al Qaeda, more pervasive, more frequent and a talks in their language.
BOLDUAN: And Seth, Phil is saying this is less immigration, more the strength of ISIS propaganda. But the idea of this -- these guys being refugees, this does speak to the fears of a lot of people that terrorists will exploit the refugee process to make it into the United States. How big of a problem is this, from your perspective?
SETH JONES, RAND INTERNATIONAL SECURITY AND DEFENSE POLICY: Look, I think the data is indicative here. And that is, the largest percentage of people that are threatening the U.S. and threatening to commit terrorist attacks, there were 56 arrested in 2015 last year on terrorism-related charges, very few of them are refugees. So that's not to understate the refugee problem and the possibility that we could have refugees that come to the United States that may want to commit terrorist attacks. The Bowling Green, Kentucky, a couple of years ago that Pamela mentioned was certainly a significant one. But there are very low percentage of the terrorism cases we see right now. I think the Philadelphia one is a great example of an individual in the United States that is threatening. So I think the pool of people that are able to access this kind of social media that Phil mentioned, it's a large pool and actually most of them are U.S. citizens.
BOLDUAN: And Seth, let's turn to that Philadelphia case right now. We're showing you that very graphic -- I mean, it's amazing that this officer survived. I know I said that earlier. But it truly is. This execution-type attack coming from this gunman in Philadelphia. He pledged allegiance to ISIS to police afterwards saying that is why he did what he did. Do you think this was ISIS-inspired or do you think this could have been ISIS directed?
JONES: Well, based on what we know right now, it looks like this was ISIS-inspired. Again, it's not clear. The investigation is very early on but I will say this, having read a lot of the ISIS propaganda in magazines like Dabiq, they very specifically encourage people, inspire individuals to conduct attacks against law enforcement and military forces, including in the United States. So this is one of their key prime targets that they are asking people to strike against.
BOLDUAN: And Phil, when it comes down to it, I guess a good question is, does that distinction matter?
[19:10:06] MUDD: It doesn't. I think were blind by it, first distinction though which for some reason, we have trouble analyzing in these cases. In the U.S. court, the first question is going to be, what's the mental state of the individual because whether you're talking about terrorism or murder, if the individual isn't sane, you can't prosecute them in a court of law. This person appears potentially to have some mental problems. You can't commit an act of terrorism if you're not sane enough to make a choice. So, before we say we have an ISIS-inspired and directed attack in Philadelphia, I'd like to ask the same question here. We'd ask in a criminal case, what's the mental capacity of the person conducting it? Somebody running around with a white cape in Philadelphia yelling, isn't a terrorist to me yet. I want to see what his mental capacity is.
BOLDUAN: And Seth, you kind of touch on this. So, ISIS has this history, a very recent history of pushing and telling and trying to inspire its supporters to attack the military attack, law enforcement attack, really whoever they can. Why does this message resonate if this does end up being a lone wolf? Why does it resonate so much with lone wolfs?
JONES: Well, look, they are targeting the entire system. I mean, if this does end up being an ISIS-inspired attack and Phil is right, this is very early on, we need to look a lot of things. But they are against the entire system. I mean, what drives the Islamic State is Sharia or Islamic law. The U.S. obviously is free. We freely elect our leaders. Law enforcement organizations are the primary security arm of the U.S. inside of the U.S. and then overseas it's the role of the military and other government officials. So targeting law enforcement is targeting the primary arm of the government inside of the U.S. Homeland. I think that's what makes those kinds of individuals a potential target.
BOLDUAN: And Phil, real quick, I mean, obviously it's early on. Do you think this is lone wolf or do you think that they're going to find some other connections or there might be other people involved here?
MUDD: No. I think they are going to find he already had some motivation towards committing an act of violence and he looked at ISIS for justification online. I don't think we'll find connections here, Kate.
BOLDUAN: Early on. Still, that video is just horrific. That officer recovering in the hospital tonight. Gentlemen, great to see you. Thank you so much.
MUDD: Thanks, Kate.
JONES: Thank you.
BOLDUAN: OUTFRONT next, we are going to show you right now, we are seeing some live pictures of Donald Trump -- Donald Trump rally getting under way in South Carolina. Will his repeated attacks on Bill and Hillary Clinton, could they backfire?
Plus, breaking news, drug kingpin el Chapo captured in a deadly military operation.
We have new details of his dramatic capture. That's coming up.
And Maine's governor, he has a history of making blunt, some would say, insensitive remarks. Did he go too far this time?
[19:16:07] BOLDUAN: You're looking at live pictures right now, the Donald Trump rally in South Carolina. We're keeping our eye on that. At the same time, a new FOX News poll shows Donald Trump is still in the lead over his Republican rivals although that's looking at -- taking a look there, although Ted Cruz has gained some momentum since December nationally. That same poll shows Cruz beating Donald Trump by four percentage points in Iowa. Still, Trump is maintaining his lead in New Hampshire in a very big way where he has more than double the support of his nearest competitor. Trump's largest target though, isn't his GOP competitors these days, it's Hillary Clinton. He's using her husband's infidelities against her.
Chris Frates is OUTFRONT.
LENA DUNHAM, CLINTON SUPPORTER: The way that he's been treated is just more evidence of the fact that our country has so much hatred towards successful women and it's inability to separate their accomplishments from that of powerful men.
CHRIS FRATES, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Lena Dunham, creator of the hit HBO show "Girls" taking what sounds like a veiled swipe at Donald Trump who is recently attacking Hillary Clinton for her husband's sex scandals. A strategy of guilt by association. On Instagram --
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Women's rights are human rights and human rights are women's rights once and for all. Let's keep fighting for opportunity and dignity.
FRATES: On the stump --
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She wants to accuse me of things and the husband is one of the great abusers of the world? Give me a break. Give me a break.
FRATES: And on twitter, "I hope Bill Clinton starts talking about women's issues so that voters can see what a hypocrite he is and how Hillary abused those women. The worst thing Hillary could do is have her husband campaign for her. Just watch." A state Republican lawmaker even got it on the act, heckling Clinton about her husband's sexual improprieties at a New Hampshire campaign event.
CLINTON: You are very rude and I am not going to ever call on you. Thank you.
FRATES: Bill Clinton says, he won't fire back unless Trump becomes the GOP nominee.
BILL CLINTON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I don't have any response. If he wins the Republican nomination, we'll have plenty of time to talk about it. I have no interest in getting involved in their politics or doing anything else except trying to help Hillary.
FRATES: Trump says, he went on the offensive after Hillary Clinton called him sexist but admitted that if his attacks start hurting him with women voters, he'll back off.
TRUMP: I hit them pretty hard. And maybe they won't be attacking me anymore. Because, you know, I am somebody who has great respect for women, believe me, and I'll do a great job far better for women than Hillary will ever do for women. But I certainly can tone it down. There's no question about that.
FRATES: So, the attacks are good politics for Trump. He is trying to rhetorically hobble Bill Clinton just as he takes to the campaign trail to make his wife's case. And Clinton bashing is popular with Republican primary voters who deeply dislike the Clintons. Now, so much different story on the Democratic side where Clinton's rivals are largely avoiding the subject. In fact, this afternoon in Iowa, Bernie Sanders told the town hall that the race should be focused on the issues, not what he called Bill Clinton's disgraceful behavior -- Kate.
BOLDUAN: And to this point, the Clintons are trying to avoid taking that on themselves as well.
Thanks so much, Chris, it's great to see you.
FRATES: Thank you.
BOLDUAN: OUTFRONT with us now, Donald Trump campaign spokesperson, Katrina Pierson and the founder of the pro-Clinton Super PAC "Correct the Record," David Brock.
Guys, it's great to see you, once again. So, first, let's get to this new --
KATRINA PIERSON, TRUMP CAMPAIGN SPOKESPERSON: Great to see you.
BOLDUAN: Great to see you. New polls out from FOX. Katrina, these new numbers out, they tell a very interesting tale. Trump is still the front-runner nationally but he is still -- well, and I guess I should say, and he is running away with New Hampshire. But in Iowa, he is still trailing Cruz in this very same poll. What is going on? Iowa is first and we're getting close, Katrina.
PIERSON: Well, we're getting very close, Kate. But I mean, this is sort of typical. We see candidates in Iowa go up and they go down and I think we're going to see the same thing happen here. I've said before, I'm very confident that Mr. Trump is going to win Iowa. I think most voters on the Republican side and Democratic side understand that there is something intrinsically wrong with the political system in this country. And it's very obvious, when you've called the issues, whether it's the economy, whether it's terrorism, whether it's ISIS, Donald Trump wins those issues hands down.
BOLDUAN: Katrina Pierson, still confident they will going to pull it off in Iowa. Soon we will tell that -- so David, looking at this poll and looking to the general, other interesting numbers in here for you guys. New polls showing that Clinton is lagging behind all three of the top Republicans in this race right now. Three points behind Trump. Also behind Cruz. Also behind Rubio. The interesting thing here about the Trump and Clinton head-to-head, three points behind Trump now. Was 11 points ahead of Trump last month. That's a problem.
DAVID BROCK, FOUNDER, CORRECT THE RECORD, A PRO-CLINTON SUPER PAC: I don't think it's a problem. But I will agree with Katrina on one thing.
BOLDUAN: What? Note that for the record.
BROCK: But look, I think the relevant poll here is the one you started with which shows Cruz gaining on Trump. And that's why trump is lashing out at the Clintons. This has nothing to do with Democrats or Clintons. This is an intramural Republican fight. There's a small audience of Clinton haters, hated them 20 years ago, still hate them now, who probably are going to respond to the kind of red meat that Donald Trump is throwing out. But if you want to talk, I mean, Bill Clinton is out there. If you want to talk about Bill Clinton's real record for women, let's talk about family medical leave. Let's talk about health care for kids. Let's talk about the issues that people remember his presidency for. Not this much.
[19:21:28] BOLDUAN: An interesting number that David Brock just mentioned, is 20 years ago, Katrina. The Trump/Clinton war. These issues are not new. They have largely been litigated before. Why do you think this will work for your campaign this time?
PIERSON: Well, I think there has been an entire new generation of women who think that Hillary Clinton is a champion of women. When Hillary Clinton is really a champion of one woman and that's herself. And I do think that, I think anytime that we have an opportunity to talk about the Bill Clinton years and particularly on the economy, it's a perfect opportunity to reeducate voters on what actually happened when he vetoed those economic reforms several times while the government had to be shut down to force his hand. So, we can talk about this issues as well. The problem we have here is Hillary Clinton solely basing her entire campaign on being a woman. She lashed out at Donald Trump, called him a sexist and he responded. You'll note that when Ben Carson pulled ahead of Mr. Trump in Iowa, he didn't go after the Clintons. He only went after the Clintons when they went after him.
BOLDUAN: I want to get your take on one thing on why the Clintons haven't responded. But I want to bring this up. Because this is also part of what is new Katrina. This Instagram video. Trump in this Instagram video will show you some of it. It links Clinton to Bill Cosby, among others. Putting Clinton with Cosby from years past is like putting Clinton with Trump. I mean, putting Trump with Cosby from years past. Look at this from celebrity apprentice when Trump praised Bill Cosby.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You have this tremendous guy with a tremendous amount of money and one phone call you could have won the whole test. I really believe that if you called that gentleman, he would have called you even if you hadn't spoken to him in years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: A tremendous guy, a gentleman, is this really a smart to be taken on them?
PIERSON: Well, I think the common denominator here are the allegations that women have made against Bill Cosby, with Bill Clinton alike. And that's what we're talking about here. And in the past, when Hillary Clinton herself defended someone that she knew had raped a 12-year-old little girl. So, all of these things are relevant if she's going to continue to calling Donald Trump a sexist.
BROCK: Look, people need to know the history of this and the context. They are old charges. Twenty years ago. One thing people remember, Bill Clinton emerged from office with sky-high approval ratings. Hillary Clinton went in the Senate. So, as a political strategy, this is not a general election strategy. This helped the Clintons then and will only help them now. But what people forget is how damaging it was to the Republican Party. Remember in 1998, Republicans had historic losses in that midterm. Two speakers of the House had to resign because of their own personal infidelity and then the third one who came in we later found out was molesting young boys. So, we don't want to go down this slippery slope. There's a pot calling the kettle black. You know, Donald Trump has been looked at --
BOLDUAN: David --
(TALKING OVER EACH OTHER)
BOLDUAN: If it was good for the Clintons, why are they staying silent? Why not come out and say --
BROCK: That's got nothing to do with them. This is an internal Republican fight. I'm telling you, this is about Ted Cruz gaining on Donald Trump and Donald Trump racing to the bottom. This is a race to the bottom on the Republican side.
PIERSON: But Kate, when you look at the most recent Hillary when Bill Clinton was on the campaign trail for her particularly against Obama, it didn't work out too well. And I don't think it's going to work out well this time either.
BOLDUAN: We will see. We're taking a live look at these pictures. We're going to show you some live pictures. Donald Trump, Katrina's man. He is on stage in South Carolina.
Guys, I have a feeling we're going to have to talk about Bill Clinton's past a little bit more. I hope you're ready to come back on and discuss.
BROCK: Happy too.
BOLDUAN: They both say in greater teeth. Great to see you, guys. Thank you so much.
BROCK: Thank you.
PIERSON: Thank you.
OUTFRONT with us next, we have breaking news. One of the world's most wanted drug lords, Mexico's El Chapo caught after months on the run. New details of how the capture went down.
And Maine's governor and his controversial comments about the heroin problem hitting that state.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They come up here, they sell their heroin and then they go back home. Incidentally, half the time they impregnate a young, white girl before they leave.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:28:57] BOLDUAN: Breaking news. We're learning new details tonight about the capture of one of the most wanted men in the world, the notorious drug lord, Joaquin El Chapo Guzman is now in custody. Mexican authorities caught Guzman in a bloody raid during which several people were killed. Right now he's being transported to this military base in Mexico City. He's expected to arrive here really any moment. El Chapo had been on the run since July when he made a daring escape from a maximum security prison through these underground, very elaborate tunnels. That was the second time breaking out of a maximum security prison actually. So how did authorities track him down?
Polo Sandoval is OUTFRONT.
POLO SANDOVAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Shirtless, shoeless and in handcuffs, this is one of the most wanted man back in custody tonight after a nearly six-month manhunt. Joaquin El Chapo Guzman was captured early this morning after a deadly shootout with the Mexican military. The drug lord was holed up inside a home in the coastal town of Los Mochis, Sinaloa. Mexican authorities say, five of El Chapo's men were killed during the raid. But the notorious criminal was captured unharmed.
[19:30:05] Among the items seized, armored cars, high powered rifles. And look closely -- that's a rocket launcher. That's evidence of the level of fire power available to ruthless cartels south of the border.
El Chapo was head of Mexico's Sinaloa cartel, a multimillion dollar organization responsible for supplying a lot of America's marijuana, cocaine and heroin.
Guzman was last seen in July when surveillance video captured his escaped from a maximum security prison in Mexico. He simply ducked behind the wall in his prison cell and disappeared into a mile-long tunnel below.
The escape was an embarrassment to the Mexican government.
Today, a triumphant President Enrique Pena Nieto wrote on Twitter, "Mission accomplished", and "We have him", in the attempt to restore confidence in his government.
ENRIQUE PENA NIETO, MEXICAN PRESIDENT (through translator): This is an achievement in favor of the role of law, an achievement which is the result of the coordination of our armed forces, of the Mexican army and the Mexican navy.
SANDOVAL: El Chapo's arrest in Sinaloa confirms what intelligence experts on both sides of the border had suspected since the daring escape, El Chapo would likely hide out in his home turf, a place where he's widely admired.
Questions now over what will come next for the drug kingpin, to remain in Mexico, a country where he's respected by some and feared by many, will he be extradition to the U.S.?
SANDOVAL: It's a very good question today, Kate. Of course, U.S. officials would like to see El Chapo Guzman eventually extradited here to the United States. Officials here in the U.S., Kate, very well aware that this man is very powerful, has a very far reach and potentially able to get himself out of any prison south of the border.
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, that's -- he definitely has a very good track record of it, that's for sure. Great to see you, Polo. Thank you very much.
SANDOVAL: You bet.
BOLDUAN: OUTFRONT tonight, Mike Braun, a former chief of operations for the Drug Enforcement Agency. He spent years tracking and gathering evidence on El Chapo and Art Roderick, a former assistant director for the investigations for the U.S. Marshals Service.
Gentlemen, it's great to see you.
Art, U.S. officials say that Mexican authorities have been closing in on Guzman since at least yesterday. How did they find them? Do you think it was a lucky break or do you think they had their eyes on him for quite a while?
ART RODERICK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: No, I think they had eyes on him for quite a while. I mean, if you go back and look at what happened in October of 2015 where they thought they almost had them and got a shootout. He fell off a cliff or fell off a ledge and supposedly hurt himself. I think they knew where he was. It was just a matter of pinning him down to a specific location.
If you look back at his arrest in 2014, you had the Mexican marines, you had DEA, you had ICE and you had the U.S. Marshals. I would not be surprised when this is all said and done and eventually when we get him back to the U.S., you're probably going to have those four agencies as the main investigative part behind catching him this time, too.
BOLDUAN: Mike, after all of the escapes and everything he has on his record, are you surprised that they brought him in alive?
MICHAEL BRAUN, FORMER DEA CHIEF OF OPERATIONS: You know, actually, Kate, I am. I'm very surprised.
But the important message here is that even though Mexico used military force to affect the arrest, it was, nonetheless, an arrest, you know, part of a judicial process. So that's a small success added on to a very large success with the capture of El Chapo Guzman.
BOLDUAN: I mean, Art, are you more surprised that the marines didn't just finish him off or that El Chapo himself allowed himself to be taken alive?
RODERICK: Yes, I'm kind of surprised he didn't go the way of Pablo Escobar. But, you know, having said that, obviously, there was five individuals that killed and he eventually ended up surrendering. Obviously, this is a huge plus for law enforcement all over the world and hopefully, I know the phone lines have been probably burning up between the Department of Justice Office of International Affairs and attorney general's office down in Mexico City to figure out what the next step is and how quickly can we get him back here to the U.S.
BOLDUAN: So, Mike, in your mind, do you think it's a foregone conclusion that he will come back to the U.S.? I mean, yes, he has escaped Mexican prisons twice very successful, but after Mexican authorities took him back into custody, I mean, isn't it kind of a point of pride to be able to keep him and bring him up against -- bring him up on charges there?
BRAUN: Yes, Kate, that's a great point. Here's what it really comes down to. When he escaped in July, you know, that was, without a doubt, the most embarrassing event that's happened to the Pena Nieto administration, and there's only one thing that the government of Mexico can do to ensure that that does not happen a third time and that's to extradite El Chapo Guzman to the United States where he will be tried and there will be justice in the criminal courthouse someplace in the U.S., and he'll be locked up for the rest of his days at FCI, Florence, Colorado, where they will have to pump daylight to this guy for the rest of his life.
[19:35:01] BOLDUAN: Why can't Mexico keep him? Is it because corruption is so rampant and that he is so rich and his influence reaches so far, Art?
RODERICK: I mean, Mexico can obviously keep him. He's in their custody right now. But I think, you know, Mike is exactly correct. I mean, this is a huge embarrassment for the government of Mexico and I think, you know, I think at this point, they are probably going to give him up and it's just a matter of when and when the paper work exchange occurs between Mexico and the Department of Justice and hopefully when he gets back here, he will speak to us because he's got a ton of intelligence information that would be very helpful to all law enforcement agencies around the world.
BOLDUAN: A very big moment, a very big day for Mexican authorities and, quite honestly, for the U.S. because he has done a lot of bad here as well. Great to see you both. Thank you.
RODERICK: Thank you.
BOLDUAN: OUTFRONT next, Maine's governor not exactly sorry for these controversial comments about heroin dealers coming to his state.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. PAUL LEPAGE (R), MAINE: These are guys named D-Money, Smoothie, Shifty, these types of guys that come from Connecticut and New York. They come up here, they sell their heroin and then go back home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: And one of the Paris attackers still on the loose. Today, authorities find a major clue he left behind.
[19:40:02] BOLDUAN: Tonight, a Republican governor insisting he is not racist after these comments made while talking about the drug problem plaguing his state. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEPAGE: These aren't people that take drugs. These are guys with the name of D-Money, Smoothie, Shifty, these types of guys that come from Connecticut, New York, they come up here, they sell their heroin and then they go back home. Incidentally, half the time, they impregnate a young, white girl before they leave, which is a real sad thing because then we have another issue that we've got to deal with down the road.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: Well, today, Maine's Governor Paul LePage right there, he defended himself. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEPAGE: I was going impromptu in my brain, didn't catch up to my mouth. Instead of saying Maine women, I said white women. If you go -- and I'm not going to apologize to the Maine women for that because if you go to Maine, you will see that we are essentially 95 percent white.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: This isn't the first time LePage has come under fire for controversial comments, that is for sure. But did he cross a line this time?
OUTFRONT tonight, Don Lemon, anchor of "CNN TONIGHT", and former NYPD detective Harry Houck.
You're giggling. Hello, you're giggling.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: I'm giggling because he said, and you will see that we are 95 percent white. It doesn't mean that all of the white people agree with his comments. He doesn't mean that those white people --
BOLDUAN: He says it was a slip-up. Does that settle it for you?
LEMON: No. He doesn't need to settle it for me. I'm not his judge and jury. He needs to settle it to the people of Maine and I don't think that that does. Just because I think that he is unaware of his bigotry.
I'm not condemning him. I know how it is to be taken out of context. I know how it is -- I know all of those things.
But why the qualifier? There's no need for a qualifier for a white or for Maine and just because, again, I'm not going to apologize to the people of Maine or Maine women because they are white. Many of the white women maybe offended by his language.
BOLDUAN: Why say white women if you're not making a racial distinction?
HARRY HOUCK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Maybe because 95 percent of the people there are white, and that's why he can only make an assumption.
LEMON: Why would he say it?
HOUCK: First of all, let's go back to the three names that, the hoody names.
BOLDUAN: D-money, Smoothie and Shifty.
HOUCK: OK, great, you memorized that, that's really good.
LEMON: But that could be an Italian gang, that could be whatever gang --
HOUCK: White guys with names like that. So, the fact that whoever assumed black people when he said, they're the real racists. The people that are pointing the finger at him until he says the other comment about the white women. Now, maybe --
BOLDUAN: When he blames the media, which he did, he blames the media, do you think that's true?
HOUCK: Listen, do you think if a liberal Democrat had say that, we'll be talking about right now?
LEMON: Yes, of course they would be talking about that right now.
BOLDUAN: I think so.
LEMON: Yes, we would be talking about it. I would be talking about it on my show.
HOUCK: Now, listen, first of all, that governor, he knows two of those guys were from other states, that we're locked up.
BOLDUAN: D-Money and Smooth. Does that change it up at all for you?
LEMON: No, because they are criminals. They are heroin dealers. So, fine. No one is arguing that. If he is the governor of that state and I do give him credit for trying to get rid of the opiate problem by doing that, he's created this problem inadvertently, it's not his fault, inadvertently with heroin, because heroin is now cheaper and people who are hocked on opiates --
HOUCK: This is political correctness gone amuck. Come on, Don.
LEMON: This is not about political correctness --
HOUCK: It really is.
LEMON: -- because he did this qualifier. Just because you're not aware that you are bigoted or that you have a bias doesn't mean that you are just because you're unaware --
HOUCK: What if one of those drug dealers did get a girl pregnant, then is that racism?
LEMON: What does that have to do with it?
HOUCK: No, I'm just saying, what if it was a true statement?
LEMON: Black guys getting white women pregnant, but who cares? Why does it matter?
HOUCK: Maybe one of them did get a white girl pregnant.
LEMON: What does it matter? It could be a pink girl.
HOUCK: It doesn't matter. Is it the true? Is it the true?
LEMON: That's the thing. You understand what I'm saying about not being aware of something?
BOLDUAN: Are you saying that Harry Houck is unconsciously bigoted?
LEMON: Maybe Harry is unaware of how offensive he's being right now and maybe you're not aware that you're being bigoted right now.
HOUCK: The fact is, it is. The fact is I don't buy any of this political correctness at all.
LEMON: It's not political correctness.
HOUCK: This is political correctness.
LEMON: I am a free political correct person that you know.
BOLDUAN: That is truth.
LEMON: If that is not in your head --
HOUCK: I don't see that come out of your mouth.
BOLDUAN: Here's the one thing that kind of blows me away. He says he misspoke, he meant to say Maine women, not white women.
[19:45:02] Maine and white, I don't often confuse those two words.
LEMON: Why are you qualifying the women of the state? Why are you -- what does it matter if it's a white woman, a black woman, Asian woman or an Hispanic? If you're the governor of the state, you represent all women. So it doesn't matter at all.
BOLDUAN: The problem here is -- one of the big issues is this governor has a long history of saying what a lot of people see as very insensitive things. I mean, he has said some thing that no other governor has said.
LEMON: And a long history of saying that he is unaware. If you're a governor, you're supposed to be aware, right? And so maybe you say, I didn't mean that in the way --
BOLDUAN: Should the governor be held to a higher standard?
HOUCK: Smoothie is a white guy.
LEMON: So what?
BOLDUAN: Would he have said white women, though? That's the question.
LEMON: Harry, you're not understanding. It doesn't matter.
HOUCK: So basically you're reading his mind?
LEMON: It doesn't matter.
No, I am not reading his mind.
HOUCK: Based on your belief of political correctness.
LEMON: No, that's not what I'm saying. Did you hear what he said? His mouth got ahead of his brain. If you listen to his press conference, he said, I hate being a politician. I'm not a politician.
HOUCK: Of course he's a politician. He's a governor, for crying out loud.
BOLDUAN: Is the other problem here is that maybe what he said and how he said it, that he was trying to draw attention to a problem?
LEMON: I'm sorry if I offended you and maybe I should be more aware and maybe there's some unconscious bigotry that I have or bias that I have that I'm not aware of and I'll work on it.
HOUCK: I think it's a big deal because he backed Christie and the Democratic Party is using it.
BOLDUAN: This is all politics, you think?
BOLDUAN: The one who raised this first, though was --
HOUCK: I can't help that.
LEMON: Carry on.
BOLDUAN: Dropped your pen.
Gentlemen, it's great to see you. I love my job. OUTFRONT next -- I thought I was going to have to really split up a
fight tonight. I'm glad I didn't have to. Maybe later.
OUTFRONT for us next, a lone fingerprint found. Is that enough to find the last Paris attacker still on the run?
And a stolen gun was used in today's shooting of a Philadelphia policeman. Ahead, could smart gun technology have stopped it?
[19:51:06] BOLDUAN: New tonight, a massive international manhunt for Paris attacker Salah Abdeslam is on as authorities have stumbled upon a major new clear.
Jim Sciutto is OUTFRONT.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: From the streets of Philadelphia to Europe, the reach of the terror threat growing broader as Philadelphia police investigate the alarming ambush of a police officer in the name of ISIS, on this city street in Brussels, police have found the possible hideout of one of Europe's most wanted terrorists. Salah Abdeslam, one of the Paris attackers whose been on the run since the deadly rampage in November may have hidden at this apartment.
Investigators say they found Abdeslam's fingerprint there, along with material to make explosives and three suicide belts, clues at the terror group's operations inside Europe.
ROBERT BAER, FORMER CIA OPERATIVE: These guys have networks in Belgium and other parts of Europe where they can operate, they can assemble and make explosives, they can hideout, they have safe houses. They clearly have documentation that lets them elude the police.
SCIUTTO: And now, Paris is reeling from another act of terror that took place on the one year anniversary of the Charlie Hebdo shooting. French police say the attacker that entered a police station with a meat cleaver Thursday was carrying a pledge of allegiance to the ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.
FRANCOIS MOLINS, PARIS PROSECUTOR (through translator): He pledges allegiance to al Baghdadi and says that his actions is in relation to the deaths that are taking place in Syria.
SCIUTTO: French authorities say the threat there is far from contained.
BAER: I guarantee you, the more violence there is in the Middle East the longer it continues, the more violence we're going to see migrate to Europe and eventually the United States.
SCIUTTO (voice-over): Belgium police raided the apartment about a month ago, got that fingerprint about a month ago. Why are they waiting until now to let it out there? May be they are running out of leads and have evidence the apartment was used before the attack. Both open questions but what is clear ISIS fighters were hiding in plain sight in a major European city both before those Paris attacks and possibly after, as well -- Kate.
BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Jim Sciutto, thank you so much.
Coming up for us next, technology from smart phones applied to guns. The high-tech tool that could save lives.
[19:57:06] BOLDUAN: Tonight an ISIS inspired gunman is in gusty after attempting to assassinate a Philadelphia officer. The gun used was stolen. If the gun had been built with the kind of smart phone technology President Obama is pushing, could this attack have been prevented?
Victor Blackwell has tonight's "IDEA".
VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a call for innovation from President Obama.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If we can set it up so you can't unlock your phone unless you got the right fingerprint, why can't we do the same thing for our guns?
BLACKWELL: Tom Lynch, CEO of Georgia-based Safe Gun Technology, says we can.
TOM LYNCH, CEO, SAFE GUN TECHNOLOGY: Victor, what you're looking at is an AR-15 Bushmaster that's been retrofitted with our Gun Safe Technology solution. This is a prototype and it is a fingerprint application that once installed on the AR-15 or any gun will prevent anybody from firing it unless you're an authorized user.
BLACKWELL: The $320 system would recognize up to ten users who the gun owner could de-authorize at anytime.
(on camera): OK, so show us how it works.
LYNCH: Sure. You see the switch there, that replicates a rear palm safety you see on many popular handgun models. We installed it so that as you grab the gun as you would to put into action, it depresses which activates the entire system. You see the scanner come on. Put your finger against it. Hear that click?
BLACKWELL: That click?
LYNCH: That click unlocked the gun. BLACKWELL: Nothing.
LYNCH: Now think about your kid going and finding the gun and playing around with the gun. That's what you want to expect.
BLACKWELL (voice-over): Other companies are developing similar systems. Lynch says his device recognizes authorized users 99.9 percent of the time and blocks unauthorized at even higher rate but most Americans are skeptical.
In 2013, the National Shooting Sports Foundation, a firearms trade association, found that 74 percent of Americans believed smart gun technology would not be not very or not at all reliable.
LYNCH: You have to prove it works. And this is something that is, when you need it, it's life threatening so it has to work.
BLACKWELL (on camera): Some smart gun designs have been around for more than a decade but politics and a lack of significant funding kept them from reaching gun stores and being a bigger draw. However, a California-based tech foundation has awarded more than $1 million in grants to developers including Lynch's company to research, design and ultimately launch smart gun technology.
(voice-over): Lynch says his company needs $1.3 million to produce and test a commercial version. After the investment it could be in gun stores in less than a year. Only time and money will tell if the potentially life saving technology becomes as common as a fingerprint reader on a phone.
Victor Blackwell, CNN, Columbus, Georgia.
BOLDUAN: Thank you, Victor.
If you miss CNN's town hall with President Obama, "Guns in America", you can watch it tonight at 9:00 Eastern.
Thank you all so much for joining us.
"AC360" starts now.