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El Chapo Behind Bars; Germans Protest Over Sex Assaults Allegedly by Refugees; Muslim Woman Kicked of Trump Rally; Philadelphia Police Ambushed by Gunman; White House Seeks Silicon Valley Help to Silence ISIS Online; Trump Ad Highlights Bill Clinton's Past Infidelity; Powerball Jackpot Hits Record $900 Million. Aired 1- 2p ET

Aired January 09, 2016 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[13:00:08] FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Welcome back. I'm Fredericka Whitfield.

Happening right now in the NEWSROOM, the world's most wanted drug lord back behind bars in the same prison he escaped from. Plus a silent protests turns ugly at a Donald Trump rally.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One guy was saying, get out. Do you have a bomb? Do you have a bomb? And I said, no, do you have a bomb?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: And new details about the man who authorities say confessed to ambushing and shooting a Philadelphia police officer in the name of ISIS. The FBI now telling CNN he made two trips to Saudi Arabia.

NEWSROOM starts right now.

All right, hello, again, everyone. And thanks so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

We begin with breaking news in the capture of Mexican drug kingpin El Chapo. A senior Mexican law enforcement official tells us the extradition of Joaquin Guzman to the United States is, quote, "very likely but will not happen right away."

Nick Valencia just arrived at the federal prison and joins me now live on the phone.

So, Nick, tell us more about this likelihood of extradition.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fredricka, I just got off phone with a senior Mexican law enforcement telling me that the extradition of El Chapo to the United States (INAUDIBLE) --

WHITFIELD: So sorry. We're going to have to try that again. That's a terrible signal. But Nick Valencia is there. And when of course we can reconnect with him, we can find out what kind of reinforcements have been put in place so that El Chapo doesn't make another escape or attempted escape there in the very prison that he escaped from six months ago.

All right. Let's dig deeper in other ways to El Chapo's capture and what will be next for the notorious drug kingpin, joining me right is Sylvia Longmire, former special agent for the U.S. Air Force Office of Special investigations. She's also a Mexico drug war analyst.

Good to see you.

SYLVIA LONGMIRE, FORMER SPECIAL AGENT, U.S. AIR FORCE: Good to see you.

WHITFIELD: OK. So how significant, in your view, is this capture and the significance of putting him in the very place that he escaped six months ago?

LONGMIRE: This is a real make or break moment for Enrique Pena Nieto's presidential administration. Very, very glad to hear that the extradition is likely. It's significant really more from a -- significant as far as symbolic victory, I guess you could say. The Sinaloa Federation is going to continue operations as normal but the fact that they're making such a decision to send him to the United States, make sure that he stays in jail, I think that's a good move.

WHITFIELD: OK. And Sylvia, we're going to try one more time to bring into this conversation you and I are having our Nick Valencia who is there outside the federal prison where Guzman is.

So, Nick, we're going to try this again. Hopefully we can hear you better. What kind of reinforcements have been made at that prison?

VALENCIA: Well, we spoke earlier to a law enforcement source here in Mexico who tells me That El Chapo is back in Altiplano prison, the most secured prison in Mexico, according to Mexican officials even though El Chapo was able to escape from that prison six months ago. They tell me the conditions under which he's being held right now, he's being heavily guarded, though they would not elaborate the details of whereabouts in that prison he was being held.

When he was here last year in 2014, I should say he was in a cellblock, the most ruthless convicted killers and murderers in Mexico, a cellblock of about eight people. I went inside that cell and was able to get a look myself, cellblock 20, where El Chapo was able to escape. The official that I spoke to did not say where El Chapo was in the prison, only to say, Fred, that he is being heavily guarded.

And to the point of extradition, this is the biggest question, of course, not just in Mexico but the United States, much has been made of extradition and high profile cartel operatives. We saw La Barbie in Atlanta federal courthouse earlier this week facing U.S. drug charges. Now we're told by a senior Mexican law enforcement official that the extradition of El Chapo is, quote, "very likely," but, quote, "will not happen any time soon." So there's no timetable as far as when he will be extradited to the United States. They only say that they have not received any formal paperwork from

the United States nor has Mexico made any formal steps to make that extradition happen. But again, a senior Mexican law enforcement source telling me that the extradition is, quote, "very likely" -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. So, Nick, stop right there. Let me bring in Sylvia and your response to that. Why would the U.S. want to pursue an extradition? How important would it be for the U.S. to try to prosecute him here?

LONGMIRE: First of all, they can get a lot of really intelligence information. One of the reasons that analysts took a look at Mexico's refusal to extradite him when they was caught the second time back in February of 2014, they were upset that we had not shared any intelligence information with them before with other individuals that have been extradited to the United States. Hopefully that will change.

[13:05:16] But it's significant because we can actually keep him in prison, send him to a super max facility where we're currently holding many other kingpin and drug trafficking VIPs in Florence, Colorado, but I think the intelligence value is probably the most significant benefit that we would get.

WHITFIELD: And at the same sometime, Nick, if I could bring you back into this equation, for Mexico, wouldn't it want the privilege, honor, you know, kind of even rekindle its reputation to prosecute him? And now we can see you there outside the prison there in Mexico. Wouldn't they want to be able to have the bragging rights to say that they were able to fully prosecute after recapturing him?

VALENCIA: Most certainly. And that's the line that we've heard from Enrique Pena Nieto, the president here in Mexico, in past interviews, that this was a sense of pride. The second time El Chapo was captured back in 2014, spending about six, seven months in prison he talked about how big a moment it was, how monumental of a moment it was for Mexican law enforcement only to suffer an embarrassment when El Chapo escaped from this prison you're looking at here behind me.

But again, Mexican officials going a step further this time. It appears in recent weeks that there's been stronger collaborations, stronger communication between the Mexican government and the U.S. government.

I mentioned that case of La Barbie, who was a high profile cartel operative, American born, he was the -- a Mexican-American that rose to the highest ranks of the cartels here in Mexico only to be extradited back to the United States.

We've seen it in past cases throughout the years of the drug war here in Mexico, but now this is a significant development because this is El Chapo. This is the most wanted drug trafficker, was the most wanted drug trafficker in the world, now in custody. Certainly the most wanted man in Mexico. And I mentioned, Fred, this was a sense of pride for them to have him,

but this senior law enforcement source here in Mexico telling me that the extradition will likely happen but not sometime too soon. Perhaps to save face here for the Mexican government. They don't want to capture him only to let him go just days after. So no timetable again given but we should expect that extradition to happen sometime soon -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. And Nick, again, you are outside the prison where El Chapo is being held right now. I wonder if you could describe that prison from your perspective, where you are, the kind of activity I have seen behind you, people walking, I've seen cars as well. But if you could describe for us kind of the scene, what you're witnessing there.

VALENCIA: Certainly. On the way here it's about an hour and a half outside of Mexico City. We went through toll roads and eventually just as we got to the outskirts of this area, in Almoloya de Juarez, where Altiplano is, we ran into some military checkpoints.

It's not too different from the scene that we saw last year after El Chapo's escape. This is a heavily guarded area, heavily patrolled area by the federal police as well as the Mexican military. Just off to my side here, it's about a mile away where that rural countryside home that El Chapo emerged from, from the tunnel that he escaped through, through that prison.

So this is an area, Fred. You know, I've spent some time here and have spoken to local residents. This is an area that has a very favorable view, if you will, of El Chapo. They believe he's done more for the country than even the president of Mexico. And that's the kind of thing that you find in these more small town communities, more rural communities. You find favoritism for drug kingpins. They're trusted more than the police officers are.

Also you can see behind me perhaps some construction going on. It's important to know back when El Chapo escaped in July of last year that it was this construction that Mexican officials pointed to that helped mask his escape. They believe that as that tunnel was being excavated, the noise from this construction, for this water sewage system here behind me actually helped EL Chapo get out easier.

Now of course there are skeptics, there are those who subscribe to conspiracy theories, believing that El Chapo just walked out the front door, others just don't believe that he has been captured and that he was captured without being killed or without being shot. But again, the Mexican government saying that he is in fact in this prison behind me, in this super max equivalent here in Mexico, and that he's being heavily guarded and that they don't to want take the chance of him escaping again -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Nick Valencia, thank you so much again outside that prison where El Chapo is being held.

Of course, you're seeing images, too, of six months ago after his escape. Nick Valencia had the opportunity to actually go into that tunnel, as you saw him descending in that ladder to kind of give us a firsthand view of exactly how he got out.

Sylvia Longmire, thank you so much for joining us as well with your expertise.

All right. We're also continuing to follow developing news out of Germany. Thousands of demonstrators filled the streets of Cologne. Police at one point firing tear gas and using water cannons to break up a rally after beer bottles were thrown at police.

[13:10:07] Protesters are furious after more than 100 sex-related assaults apparently taking place on New Year's eve. Authorities saying out of the mob of 31 people identified as alleged attackers, 18 of them, police say, are refugees.

CNN's Atika Shubert has been in the middle of the demonstrations and she's joining us now from Cologne where it is nightfall.

So, Atika, what more is being said? How is it being assessed, what took place over the last couple of days, what took place all day today? Thinning crowds at this hour from our vantage point to you now.

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're in the middle of the square now. This is actually where a lot of the assaults took place. In the square between the train station and the cathedral.

You can see here actually riot police have just come. They're taking a lot of the gear off. And I think that just goes to show they feel a lot more secure. They have much more control of the streets. All the protesters have gone home. And this is a very good sign, calm returning to the streets of Cologne.

But still a lot of tough questions ahead, particularly on Monday, that is when local parliament will meet to find out what exactly happened here on New Year's Eve. We now know from Cologne police that the number of criminal incidents reported were 379. That's from this square alone, in this city. And of those, more than half were believed to be sexual assaults.

So a lot of questions now being asked, what happened here? Where were the police? Who committed these crimes? We know that 31 suspects have been identified. Of those at least 18 were asylum seekers. And this is why there's so much anger and pressure now at Germany's refugee policy.

So we're hoping to get some more answers from police in the days ahead and can probably expect some tough words from lawmakers on Monday -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Atika Shubert, thank you so much in Cologne.

All right. Straight ahead in this country, a Muslim woman booed by a crowd at a Donald Trump rally. Why she was kicked out of the building and what she told CNN next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. Protesters getting kicked out of Donald Trump's rallies. Well, that's nothing new. But last night in South Carolina, a Muslim woman was escorted out for standing up. Listen to what happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[13:15:01] DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I know the game. And I know the game very well. And these people will come in --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: 56-year-old Rose Hamid was escorted out and booed by the crowd, as you see right there. She spoke with us about her experience and the people around her in the rally.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROSE HAMID, KICKED OUT OF TRUMP RALLY: You know, I don't know if he really knows what Muslims stand for. And I don't think that -- I don't even think he believes in the rhetoric that he's spewing. I think he's just saying stuff to get attention and to get his numbers up.

My purpose for going there, as was mentioned, was that I wanted -- I have this sincere belief that if people get to know each other one-on- one, that they'll stop being afraid of each other and we'll be able to get rid of all this hate in the world, literally. So that was really my goal. Was to let people see that Muslims are not that scary.

And the people around me were lovely. There was people who were very nice. They were sharing their popcorn. It was very nice people all around me, the people I had conversations with. But then what happened when the crowd got this, like, hateful crowd mentality, as I was being escorted, it was really quite telling of -- and a vivid example of what happens when you start using this hateful rhetoric and how it can incite a crowd.

Yes, the one guy was saying, get out. Do you have a bomb? Do you have a bomb? And I said, no. Do you have a bomb? So no, they were saying ugly, ugly things. One guy was saying, God is great. I'm like, yes, God is great. And one guy said, Isa loves you, which is the Arabic word for Jesus. And I said yes, I know, and Jesus loves you, too.

So it's -- the thing is that people don't even know what they're saying. They don't even -- they just get riled up in the hate- mongering and they don't even know what they're saying.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. Joining me with the latest from the campaign trail in Iowa is CNN political reporter Sara Murray. And people are ready for Donald Trump's arrival there in Iowa. What is the expectation from voters there? SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think that the event

you're looking at today is a very different feel from sort of the big raucous rally he had last night. You can see the voters behind me are seated. Donald Trump told a local radio station that he's planning on taking questions today. And the voters we talk to before that got rolling are really traditional Iowa Republican voters and some Democrats that are thinking of supporting Republicans who are going to see multiple candidates come through Iowa.

And what they really want to do is see them up close. Ask questions. A number of them want to hear more about Donald Trump's immigration plan or his plan for the economy. So I think we're really hitting these last couple of weeks where voters are buckling down and they want answers to their questions now to decide who they're going to ultimately support.

WHITFIELD: And, you know, we know that Donald Trump usually has Secret Service and there's always security at any of the events but are you seeing any real changes in how they are carrying out security, given that the crowds continue to be very big and given that there have been protests or people escorted out but there has never been, as far as we know, any kinds of acts of violence. It just really has been kind of a dissenting of views, right?

MURRAY: Right. I think there is no doubt that Donald Trump has been a very divisive candidate in this race. There are a number of people of course who have been offended by his comments about immigration, that have been offended by his comments about Muslims and about Syrian refugees. And I think that's part of the reason that we see so many protests at Donald Trump's event.

This is a little bit different. It's hard to say whether we'll see protesters at something like this which is sort of a smaller venue inside and seated. But I think this has just become a fact of life at a Donald Trump event. And it's really difficult for them to weed them out. They have security. People go through bags and, you know, anything that they think could be a weapon and of course taken away.

But, you know, there's nothing to stop someone from standing up with a sign and protest. And that's just something that the Trump campaign has had to roll with.

WHITFIELD: All right. Sara Murray, thank you so much.

All right. Republican presidential candidate Ted Cruz is sitting down face-to-face with CNN addressing immigration and questions about his American citizenship.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR, "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER": Carly Fiorina saying the other day that -- she says it's odd that it wasn't until 2014 that you renounced your dual citizenship, your citizenship with Canada. Now I know you said you didn't even know about it until "Dallas Morning News" wrote about the story I think in 2013? Did you ever go back after that "Dallas Morning News" story and try to

find out more about your parents' time in Canada, whether they did -- I mean, did they vote in Canada when they were there?

[13:20:08] SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No. No.

TAPPER: No, they did not?

CRUZ: My mother didn't because she was a U.S. citizen. And my mother -- look, the Internet has all sorts of fevered swamped theories but the facts are simple. My mom was born in Wilmington, Delaware. She was an American citizen by birth. She has been an American citizen all 81 years of her life. She's never been a citizen of any other place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. Don't miss Jake Tapper's full interview with Republican presidential candidate Ted Cruz on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION" tomorrow morning 9:00 Eastern Time.

All right. A Philadelphia cop ambushed and shot in the name of ISIS. Coming up, new information in the investigation and the search for ties to terror organizations.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: We're learning new information about the gunman accused of ambushing and shooting a Philadelphia police officer in the name of ISIS. The FBI is now investigating two trips Edward Archer made to the Middle East in 2011 and 2012. The Philadelphia police commissioner says the surveillance video of the attack is absolutely chilling. He says it's amazing the officer is expected to make a full recovery.

CNN's Miguel Marquez has more of the stunning images and the latest on the investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCHER: All cars stand by. We had an officer shot.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A horrifying scene in Philadelphia, that's 30-year-old Edward Archer, say police, brandishing a 9-mm semiautomatic handgun firing into the police car of 33-year-old police officer, Jesse Hartnett.

Archer moves to the window. The gun inside the car, firing at least 11 shots, hitting the officer three times in the left arm.

JESSE HARTNETT, PHILADELPHIA POLICE OFFICER: Shots fired. I'm shot. I'm bleeding heavily.

MARQUEZ: Incredibly the police officer not only survived, he chased his attacker down, shooting him in the butt, stopping him all while bleeding profusely, his left arm unusable, speaking to the dispatcher all at the same time.

UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCHER: So we have an officer down.

COMM. RICHARD ROSS, PHILADELPHIA POLICE: The grace of God, first and foremost, but -- because I can't explain it based on my belief in any other way. But under those circumstances, man, I can't imagine that almost anything that you could have could protect you. And that is chilling. Absolutely chilling when you watch that. And if that doesn't just make the hairs on your neck just raise when you see that, it's scary.

[13:25:07] MARQUEZ: Police say the attacker used a handgun stolen from police in 2013 and confessed he was inspired by ISIS.

CAPT. JAMES CLARK, PHILADELPHIA POLICE: He pledges his allegiance to Islamic State. He follows Allah and that is the reason he was called upon to do this.

MARQUEZ: Authorities now digging into the life and past of 30-year- old Edward Archer.

ROSS: According to him, he believed that the police defend laws that are contrary to the teachings of the Koran.

MARQUEZ: FBI searching through properties related to Archer trying to determine just how deeply, if at all, he is tied to international terror groups.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right. That was Miguel Marquez reporting. Meanwhile the wife of a Texas man locked up and charged with supporting ISIS says he loved America. 24-year-old Omar Faraj Saeed al-Hardan is accused of providing resources and materials to ISIS for more than a year. His wife insists that he has done nothing wrong.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HANEEM AL KOKISS, AL HARDAN'S WIFE: I'm not good because my husband is in jail. And my son is not good. He just cry. He needs his dad. They take everything. And my phone, and my iPad. I don't know why. He not do nothing. He loves America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Al-Hardan and his accused accomplice Aws Mohammed al-Jayab are both Palestinians who were born in Iraq and came to the United States as refugees, according to the U.S. Justice Department. Authorities say al-Jayab traveled overseas to fight alongside terrorist organizations and lied to U.S. authorities about it.

All right. To help fight ISIS online, the White House is turning to Silicon Valley. Obama administration officials met with top tech executives from Facebook, twitter and even Apple CEO Tim Cook to try and craft ways to combat radicalization online.

Joining me right now is Nicole Wong. She worked in the White House and was one of President Obama's top experts on technology.

Good to see you, Nicole.

NICOLE WONG, FORMER WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF TECHNOLOGY OFFICER: Great to be here. Thanks, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: So what's your understanding about what the White House is looking for from tech companies?

WONG: Well, so I wasn't at the meeting yesterday but when you look at the announcements that came from the White House and the participants at the meeting, it was a really important start to what's clearly a longer conversation between the government and the tech sector and it's part of a broader government effort to counter extreme violence.

So in addition to the meeting in Silicon Valley yesterday, the White House announced a task force with the Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Justice to counter violent extremism. And separately the State Department is establishing a global engagement center to help amplify the voices of others around the world who speak out against violent extremism. All of these, including the meeting yesterday out here in the valley, are pieces of a to address a very complex threat . And I think --

(CROSSTALK)

WHITFIELD: Yes, very complex. Sorry to interrupt you. But, Nicole, you know, so I wonder because there has been a lot of criticism over the years from, you know, technology experts about the government, you know, being fairly behind as it pertains to technology and helping to educate people who operate government, how to be more advanced in the use of technology.

But at same time, when you talk about the White House talking to these tech companies, private enterprise, how does the White House go about getting government and private enterprise to partner up or share resources to enhance national security by way of, you know, social media and, you know, the digital imprint?

WONG: Yes, so I think you're exactly right. And having been in the private sector and the public sector, that conversation that happened yesterday is critical.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

WONG: We want an open and candid dialogue between government and these tech companies about accurately understanding how the technology works, understanding how the companies are seeing individuals use their platforms, and for the companies to understand something about what the government is trying to do to address these problems broadly.

So I think the starting point is an accurate understanding of the technology itself. Having said that, the technology itself isn't a solution to the broader problem. As we were just talking about, there are political components, social components and that's a much more complex area. The technology is a piece of it. But it's certainly not the silver bullet to stop the growth of extremism.

WHITFIELD: All right. It's also fascinating and of course it is still very complex.

Nicole Wong, thank you so much for being with us. Appreciate it.

WONG: My pleasure. Thank you.

[13:30:01] WHITFIELD: All right. He is not a presidential candidate but Bill Clinton is now the focus of a negative political ad and there is new tough talk on the campaign trail. Hear who is delivering the jabs now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. Welcome back. I'm Fredericka Whitfield.

Hillary Clinton is getting some high-profile help on the campaign trail this weekend. Actress Lena Dunham is stumping for the Democratic frontrunner in two key states, New Hampshire and Iowa. Like Clinton, the star and creator of HBO's "Girls" is an outspoken advocate for women's rights.

Republican frontrunner Donald Trump is suggesting when it comes to some women's issues, Clinton is a hypocrite, he says, which Trump focused on in a new social media ad highlighting sexual scandals involving Hillary Clinton's husband Bill Clinton and a few Clinton associates.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Women's rights are human rights and human rights are women's rights once and for all. Let's keep fighting for opportunity and dignity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Well, Bernie Sanders, he was also asked to weigh in on the issue. And this is what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What Bill Clinton did, I think we can all acknowledge was totally, totally, totally disgraceful and unacceptable. But I am running against Hillary Clinton. I am not running against Bill Clinton.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. Joining me right now from New York Democrat strategists Nomiki Konst and in Washington Angela Rye.

Good to see both of you.

Angela, let's talk about this. And whether it indeed has a place on the campaign trail. Fair game? ANGELA RYE, FORMER EXEC. DIRECTOR, CONGRESSIONAL BLACK CAUCUS: I

don't think that Trump's tactics are fair. Just because something is a good or even in some instances a smart political tactic, it does not make it appropriate. And I think that what he's done and certainly with this last ad is certainly beyond the bounds and it's inappropriate given the current scandal facing Bill Cosby and his -- of course, the recent charges.

[13:35:09] I think it is horribly unfortunate that they would go that far. And I'm sure that Bill Cosby, there are probably pictures surfacing and floating around with Bill Cosby and Donald Trump as well. So it's a little beyond the pale here.

WHITFIELD: And so, Nomiki, you have to -- anyone has to just know that the Clinton campaign expected this, right? Hillary Clinton would have to brace herself for what was likely to be either answering for or to, you know, her husband's, you know, indiscretions. But at this juncture in the game, is there sufficient criticism, you know, that Donald Trump is taking it too far?

NOMIKI KONST, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Absolutely. I think, you know, Donald Trump is trying to make himself out to be the next feminist leader. And I don't really know what base he's speaking to when he said things like, you know, women -- some women on the campaign trail have faces like dogs or that he's talked about their menstruation cycles, or that he said when Hillary Clinton went to the bathroom it was disgusting.

I mean, the rhetoric that comes out of his mouth is not appealing to anyone. If this is his way of being the next, you know, Betty Frieden and Gloria Steinam, it's not working. The problem here is that -- you know, Donald Trump is not talking about the real issues that face women. Issues that Hillary Clinton has represented over the past, you know, 40 years, from her commencement speech in 1969 at Wellesley College to her work at the Children's Defense Fund to talking about paid family leave, the gender wage gap, the issues that the swing voter women care about. And those are the women that he's going to have to woo if he's the nominee to win and he's not winning them right now.

WHITFIELD: So do you see, Angela, potentially this backfire for Donald Trump, while he might be thinking that this is great strategy and it's in your face, you know, against the other frontrunner on the Democratic side, that potentially it could hurt him?

RYE: Well, I'm reluctant to say at this point, Fredricka, that anything will backfire against Donald Trump because at every turn where I thought things would backfire against him they have not. What I will tell you just honestly as a woman I hope they do in part because of all of the things that the other guests just mentioned but also because Donald Trump has done some things that I think should be called into question.

He had an affair that ended a marriage. He had a marriage where during a deposition, his wife said at the time that something that could have happened that was like spousal rape. He also recently talked about, you know, he would date his daughter if he weren't married and if she wasn't his daughter.

There are some other things that also need to be called into question. So I am certain that opposition researchers are working really hard to find out what those things that blemishes on his record that would come very close to what Bill Clinton did. I think the other thing that we should talk about that's very important and I actually commend Bernie Sanders, not only on we're not -- we don't want to talk anymore about your damn e-mails but when he said in that rally the other day which is I'm running against Hillary Clinton.

I need to run against Hillary Clinton and her record for and against women. This isn't about Bill Clinton, or whether or not she chose to stay with her husband. That is her business. So unless Donald Trump wants to talk about his business, he should certainly stay out of hers.

(CROSSTALK)

WHITFIELD: So then -- yes, go ahead.

KONST: Well, you know, and that's the real story here is that Donald Trump's record with women and his history with women is fair game. Bill Clinton might -- he might say it's fair game but the reality is, Hillary Clinton is the one running for office and she has a tremendous record with women. There are no blemishes on her record when she has advocated for women over the past 40 years.

WHITFIELD: And I wonder if there is another big message here or, you know, this helps provoke another conversation which is, whether it's Hillary Clinton or whether it's any woman who is in the race like this, if she's held to a different standard trying to explain or having to answer to, you know, her spouse's activities or is this because the Clintons are high-profile, do we see or will we see the same kind of scrutiny for any of the male candidates, and the discretions or behaviors of their spouses, Angela?

RYE: Well, we know that Hillary Clinton has always been held to another standard. And I think that what she's done very well is always been able to demonstrate what the standard will be for her. And so when she was asked early on if her opinion that women who have -- who are assault victims should be believed and she responded, and when they pushed back with the names of the women who accused Bill Clinton, she said she stuck by her answer.

So she shouldn't have to go beyond it. She's well in control of this message. And I think if she continues to say, listen, I still believe that women's rights are human rights, I'm still going to support women being equally paid like men, and I'm still going to support victims of abuse and believing them and not blaming them, I think that that's all she needs to do. But again, I do think, as the other guest just mentioned, Donald Trump's record is fair game. If they want to talk about Hillary, that's fine and the way that she's been responding has been very good.

WHITFIELD: All right. We're going to leave it right there. Ladies, Angela Rye, Nomiki Konst, good to see both of you ladies. Appreciate it.

[13:40:03] RYE: Good to see you.

WHITFIELD: All right. The documentary series "Making a Murderer" is a huge hit on Netflix right now. Thousands are people are supporting the main character saying he's innocent. Next, why some aren't so sure.

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WHITFIELD: OK. Film makers, the Netflix documentary "Making a Murderer" say they are not sure if the man at the center of their hit series is innocent or guilty. Some viewers, they're not sure either.

The story starts with Steven Avery being exonerated after 18 years in prison for a rape after DNA evidence was examined but he quickly found himself in trouble with the law again. This time it was for the murder of 25-year-old photographer Teresa Halbach.

Well, like Avery's first sent in prison he maintains his innocent, even claiming that police set him up, twice. But the sheriff's office isn't buying it.

CNN Money correspondent Laurie Segall dives into the details of this complex case.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody's listening. What do you want to say today?

STEVEN AVERY, CONVICTED MURDERER: I'm innocent.

LAURIE SEGALL, CNN MONEY TECH CORRESPONDENT: "Making a Murderer" tells the story of Stephen Avery. A man convicted of a gruesome murder. The Netflix documentary makes the case that in 2005 police in Manitowoc County, Wisconsin, may have planted evidence to ensure a guilty verdict. The filmmakers say they were just documenting the case.

LAURA RICCIARDI, CREATOR, "MAKING A MURDERER": We did not have a horse in this race. It was of no consequence to us whether Steven Avery was going to be found guilty or not guilty.

SEGALL: But the county's current sheriff, Robert Hermann, tells us the series doesn't paint the full picture.

ROBERT HERMANN, MANITOWOC COUNTY SHERIFF: I don't believe that this is a documentary because it leaves out a lot of information.

SEGALL: He points to some key pieces of evidence not mentioned. For example, details about the victim's car.

HERMANN: That vehicle had DNA on it from Steven Avery. And the DNA, a major piece that was found by Calumet County sheriff was located under the hood, on the hood latch. [13:45:06] It was -- and it wasn't blood DNA. It wasn't blood. It

was perspiration. The leg irons and shackles or handcuffs that were found at the residence, I think that's a key piece.

SEGALL: Evidence the filmmakers say was not crucial.

RICCIARDI: There was no direct evidence of Steven Avery's guilt in the Halbach case so this is circumstantial evidence. In our opinion, it was less significant evidence than the evidence we actually presented.

SEGALL: So what about all those smoking guns?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're aware now that the first time that Toyota was reported found was two days later on November 5.

SEGALL: A key scene implies one of the officers may have seen the victim's car days before it was discovered on Avery's property, implying a setup.

HERMANN: He did not have the vehicle in front of him. He had a plate number that was given to him by the Calumet County Sheriff's Office. And at that point, he took the information and ran it in to make sure that it came back missing. That's a common practice.

SEGALL (on camera): Even though he said the name of the car but certainly appeared as though he had more knowledge of it.

HERMANN: From the information he received from Calumet County, that's the only knowledge he had.

SEGALL (voice-over): And then there was the victim's key that was found at Avery's trailer, but only after it was searched multiple times.

HERMANN: He moved a bookcase and kind of handled it roughly and that's when I believe the key fell out. Can, you know, things get overlooked? Yes, they can. And in this case, they did. It's not because it was planted there.

SEGALL: As far as the outrage around the country, the sheriff stands by the investigation.

HERMANN: Quite frankly, I feel we did nothing wrong. We had a lot of people involved. And my deputies played some important roles and found some key evidence, and I'm not ashamed of that.

SEGALL (on camera): Do you believe that Steven Avery is innocent?

HERMANN: I believe he -- that justice was served and I believe he is guilty.

SEGALL: Laurie Segall, CNNMoney, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE) WHITFIELD: All right. Let's talk more about this mystery really. I'm joined now by CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson. Good to see you. And CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Danny Cevallos.

All right. Good to see both of you. So more than 500,000 people have signed petitions for the release of Steven Avery and his nephew, Brendan Dassi. So what's the likelihood that one or both of these men would actually go free, Danny?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Let's say slim and super slim as to all of them. I mean, the chances are virtually zero. If we're talking about a petition for a pardon, to the extent anyone's petitioned the president of the United States, he has no power to pardon a state convict. So that's zero. When it comes to petitioning Wisconsin governor Scott Walker to issue a pardon, he has pardoned exactly 0.0 convicts since he's been in office.

So it's highly unlikely that we're going to see him pardon this particular defendant. And he's come out, I believe, and said that he would not. So always tell -- I tell people, pardons are very, very difficult to get. They're a very hard process. And you're not entitled to anything in the pardon process.

WHITFIELD: So, Joey, I wonder, what -- you know, what's revealing to you in this case as it pertains to this kind of crime solving by way of a Netflix project?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, Fredricka, good afternoon to you. Good afternoon to you, Danny. The problem -- the major problem here is, I think, one of lack of trust. And when I say that, you have an instance where you have someone who's clearly exonerated and found to be actually innocent with respect to the first murder involving Penny Bernstein. He spent 18 years in jail. And he's demonstrated compellingly that you have a sheriff and a prosecutor who willfully ignored existing evidence in addition to, you know, essentially colluding to convict him.

And so on the backdrop of that when there's this civil case that's going on and $36 million and people are being deposed and swearing testimony and essentially his attorneys are devastating the police department, the prosecutors, everyone, is showing that, you know, what they did was deplorable to him, all of a sudden, all of a sudden he gets implicated in another murder. And I think it just generally leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth in terms of mistrust.

And Fredericka, listen, I'm not one who's generally into conspiracy theories and, you know, who shot JFK, et cetera. But speaking from a real perspective, just examine for one moment two issues. The first issue is if you look at South Carolina and the whole Michael Slager and then Walter Scott's running away, he shoots him in the back. And then what do you see? You see the planting or attempted planting of evidence before our own eyes.

We've shown it many times where you see that the officer looked like he drops something there. And so it just sends a message like, hmm, could this really have happened? And then I direct you to exhibit B which now going on in Chicago involving Laquan McDonald, where there was a shooting with Officer Van Dyke, the officer's indication of exactly what happened are totally different from what we see on video and now there's evidence coming out that they coerced witnesses to say the same thing.

[13:50:15] So what goes to the whole narrative of can we really trust the investigatory authorities who bring forward the evidence, and that's really the issue that the documentary captures, and makes us think, is he really guilty of this crime?

WHITFIELD: So, Danny, do you see, you know, pluses and minuses to this kind of crime solving?

CEVALLOS: First of all, Mr. Jackson's exhibits A and B are cases that have nothing to do with this particular case. The reality is, the defense's position in this case was that they essentially conceded every fact the prosecution had in the sense that yes, there was a key. Yes, there was some other evidence, but then they asked the jury to believe additional things, which is yes, all these things were found where they were found, but also believe that the police put them there. That the police came up with this elaborate ruse where they would sneak onto the property and plant this evidence.

So it's a -- it's quite a gambit. It's a risk. Even Mr. Jackson will acknowledge that. This kind of defense is the "I didn't do it by way of all of that evidence exists," but somebody else did it, jury. We want you to believe these additional facts that many people conspired to bring this about. In a way it's sort of a lofty affirmative defense. And it's ambitious and it may not work in every case.

WHITFIELD: Well, that's why so many people are enamored by this project on Netflix.

Guys, we got to go. Joey, Danny --

JACKSON: I wanted to respond to my learned colleague. But I will see him in the building, and I will, you know, converse with him at that point.

WHITFIELD: You all can talk about that exhibit A and B a little bit later offset. All right. Thanks so much, gentlemen. Good to see you. Appreciate it.

JACKSON: Thank you, Fredricka. Have a great day.

WHITFIELD: All right. You too.

All right, watch CNN tomorrow morning at 11:00 a.m., Brian Stelter talks to the women who made the series on "RELIABLE SOURCES" tomorrow morning, 11:00.

All right. Next, it just keeps going up. I'm talking about the Powerball. We gave you a little hint of that video. The Powerball jackpot hits a new height. And we are live, next as we're just hours away now from the drawing. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:55:12] WHITFIELD: Oh, to dream. The largest jackpot in U.S. history is now $900 million. Insane. We're counting down to the big Powerball drawing tonight.

CNN business correspondent Alisok Kosik is running the numbers and snatching up tickets at every, you know, commercial break that she can.

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WHITFIELD: So, Alison, roughly what would a single winner walk away with?

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: OK, so if you decide to not take the annuity, which would be the 30 years of payments, you would wind up with a lump sum of $558, but that is before taxes. You see, this kind of income is like taxable income like you would get what you earned on your job. So that means, let's say you're a New York City residents, you would end up with $348 million, that's after taxes. So not too shabby.

Reason you got people streaming in here, still buying tickets, a few left before -- several hours before that drawing tonight, Saturday night. Interestingly enough, Powerball fever getting real hot in here. You know how hot? One guy walked in and bought 1,000 lotto tickets. Doing the math, that's $2,000 for paper.

WHITFIELD: Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. That's great. And so how many tickets have you purchased?

KOSIK: OK, so far I've only bought two, but I just gotten started. I don't have enough cash on me at this point. I hope I wins. But you know what, all of this just takes one ticket, right?

WHITFIELD: Right. That's right. It all -- and then I hear the best recommendation, you got to sign the back of it, just in case you misplace it and somewhere down the line, you come across that winning ticket.

KOSIK: Good point.

WHITFIELD: Yes?

KOSIK: Very good point.

WHITFIELD: OK, all right. Avoid some problems. OK. Maybe after work at some point today, I've got to find the best place, what I feel is the lucky place, to get my ticket as well.

KOSIK: You do.

WHITFIELD: Yes, and then I'll be calling you for advice on what do I do with all these winnings if my numbers are selected.

KOSIK: You got it. Call me any time, Fredricka.

(LAUGHTER)

WHITFIELD: I'll call you. I'll call you on the hotline. All right, Alison Kosik. Thank you so much. Good to see you.

All right. The next hour of the CNN NEWSROOM begins right after this.

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