Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
American Woman Found Murdered in Italy; Mexican Authorities Now Want To Question Actor Sean Penn Over El Chapo Guzman; Tuesday Night President Barack Obama Gives Final State of the Union Address; U.S. Appears to be Sending a Warning to North Korea; New Poll Shows Donald Trump Trailing Senator Ted Cruz. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired January 10, 2016 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST, NEWSROOM: All right. The next Powerball drawing is Wednesday. Maybe then.
All right. That's going to do it for me. Thanks so much for being with me this afternoon. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. Much more straight ahead with Poppy Harlow in NEWSROOM.
[15:00:19] POPPY HARLOW, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. 5:00 eastern. I'm Poppy Harlow in New York. Top of the hours. Thank you so much for joining us.
We begin with the shocking twist in the dramatic capture of drug kingpin El Chapo. Secret meeting between the cartel leader and actor Sean Penn may have led to his capture. Details from inside the meeting and how the famous Mexican actress you're looking at now, how she helped set all of this up.
But first, we begin with politics this hour in the race for the White House. Donald Trump rallying a large crowd in Nevada right now. He has spent the entire weekend on the campaign trail as yet another new poll shows he is trailing senator Ted Cruz in the crucial early voting state of Iowa. Cruz leading Trump 28-24 percent, according to the latest numbers today from the NBC/"Wall Street Journal"/Marist poll.
That the same poll buts Trump in a better position in New Hampshire. He is well ahead of the competition with 30 percent support there. His closest competitor, Senator Marco Rubio stands at 14 percent.
CNN's Maeve Reston joins us now from Trump's rally in Reno.
Once again, no surprise, hard after Cruz. And hard after this point of, you know, his questioning whether or not Cruz is actually eligible to be president since he was born in Canada. He won't let that one up.
MAEVE RESTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, let it go, Poppy. And you know, it's really interesting here, talking to folks in the crowd. There are a lot of voters here who say that Ted Cruz would be their second choice. So it's very clear why Donald Trump is doing this.
Just a few minutes ago, he talked about the citizenship issue for Ted Cruz. His mother born in the U.S. but -- is a U.S. citizen, but Trump is repeatedly returning to, I think we have a little of that sound where he talks about this being unclear issue in the course. So let's take a listen to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And here is the problem. It is called uncertainty. It's called -- you just don't know. Now, already Congress spin and another Congress spin, by the time, it's going to happen, nobody's more -- does anybody know more about litigation than Trump? OK? I know a lot. I'm like a Ph.D. in litigation, OK? And what is going to happen is the other side will bring a suit. Now, is he a natural born citizen? Some people -- I don't know. Honestly, we don't know. Who the hell knows?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RESTON: And so, obviously, he is really bringing this issue up again and again in the rallies here, going straight at this as being electability issue for Ted Cruz, trying to raise questions about his background, get voters to worry a little bit about whether or not Cruz is the strongest candidate to go up against Hillary Clinton.
Ted Cruz, so far, not taking the bait. He is really avoided trying to go back to Donald Trump on this issue. But has said this is a settled matter. That it is, you know, there's swap theories out there, but this is not something that should be a big issue in the race. So we will have to see how it plays out.
HARLOW: Right, absolutely. We heard him to say to Jake Tapper this morning on "STATE OF THE UNION." We are going to hear a little bit more from a constitutional lawyer on exactly that a little bit later in the program. Let's listen in, Maeve, to Donald Trump for a moment.
TRUMP: One of the most beautiful tackles made this year, right? No, I mean, -- it's boring. But although I love Tom Brady, I have got to tell you, I do love Tom. He is a great guy. But it's a different -- you know it's different -- but it's become soft and our country's become soft. Our country has become soft.
Do you know one of the reasons -- this is true -- reported by these people -- one of the reasons we haven't bombed the oil over there, you know, environmental impact. They didn't want to disturb the environment. No, no, this is true. Can you believe it? OK. Environmental impact.
You know one of the reasons they never built the wall? Along southern border to stop drugs and people and everything from coming? Environmental impact study. They couldn't get it approved, it's true. This is a while ago. Couldn't get an environmental impact study approved to build a wall to save lives, to be good for our economy, to stop drug traffic. They couldn't get it because --
HARLOW: All right. We will keep monitoring Donald Trump live in Reno, Nevada. But I want to talk more about this now with CNN senior political analyst, adviser to four former presidents, David Gergen.
Nice to see you, David.
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Good to see you, Poppy.
HARLOW: We heard Donald Trump say, he's doing Ted Cruz -- this is a quote -- a favor by raising the issue of citizenship.
[15:05:01] GERGEN: Yes, sure.
HARLOW: I'm not sure Ted Cruz views it that way. But he is like - he says look. I don't want it to get mired in the courts to see - should win the nomination. Here's what Cruz said this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think most Americans they couldn't care less about a bunch of politicians bickering like schoolchildren.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, they care if you're constitutionally eligible, right? I mean, that is something -- you get asked about that.
CRUZ: But the substance of the issue is clear and straightforward. As a legal matter, the constitution and federal law are clear that the child of a U.S. citizen born abroad is a natural born citizen. And the dynamic that's happening, you know, it's interesting, three weeks ago, almost every Republican candidate was attacking Donald Trump. Today, almost every Republican candidate is attacking me. And that kind of suggests maybe something's changed in the race.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: David, how does Ted Cruz put this to bed once and for all?
GERGEN: I'm not sure he can in the time frame that he has got. And I don't know -- you know, from my point of view, Cruz is right. Every child born to an American couple overseas has been, in my experience, considered an American citizen. But by raising what I think is a red herring, it is, I think, having some impact on the race. They have looked about two, three weeks ago, that Cruz actually might pull away in Iowa. He had like nine or ten-point lead in some of the polls. That lead in the last two polls have been four percent. He is still ahead in terms of popular vote, but maybe this birther issue is having some impact already. It is hard to sort out. We don't have enough information to say for sure.
HARLOW: You know, it's interesting, "New York Times" did a fascinating piece on the division that this race is causing or has already caused in the GOP. It talked about the fact that neither Cruz nor Trump has backing of a single senator or a single governor. Does it matter, David, or does it actually benefit them because the American electorate is sick and tired of politics as usual?
GERGEN: Well, I don't think it's having much impact on the outcome of the race. What it does suggest is that a president Cruz or president Trump, if that were to happen, might have much harder time governing. They don't have the kind of natural allies even in their own party that you would like to have when you go in as president. So, I think -- I don't think it's a good sign. I think it means rougher waters ahead but maybe not in the elections. You're right, about, you know, because of the anti-establishment feeling you're giving another senator to support you doesn't make any difference usually. It may make a difference in Iowa, you know, in a contained race or place like New Hampshire. But when you do Super Tuesday, it's not going to make much difference.
HARLOW: So I mean, building on this, right, in this article, in the "Times," you got the former Nixon and Reagan at adviser, Pat Buchan, who ran himself twice in the '90s for president, here is what he said. Quote "the chickens have come home to roost putting the party back together again will be very hard after this nomination. I think the party's going to shift against trade and interventionism and become nationalist and tribal and more about protecting the border." Is he right?
GERGEN: Pat Buchan is a good analyst. I think that there is that danger that the Republican Party will come more of a native party. But if it does so, there is a threat that it could become a minority party. You know, the dream, Reagan's dream was to build a Republican party into a majority party.
HARLOW: Right.
GERGEN: And after you get caught up in side issues, it's really hard. And with giving the changing demographics of the country, hard to put together a majority and they need to be thinking of that. If they take a real thumping in November if that were to take place, they get -- you can't rally the country as a whole, they think of something. The better thing to do is go back to the drawing board and see if you can't refocus your party. That's what happened when Bill Clinton got elected. Democrats lost two in a row by nominating someone who is quite liberal. And when Clinton came in he moved the party to the center and made it more of a majority party for the presidency.
HARLOW: You had Chris Christie come out last week, David and warn, among others who said this that the fractures in the party, in the GOP, could actually help a Democrat win the White House. Do you actually believe that that some of the votes could shift away from a --
GERGEN: Yes.
HARLOW: You do?
GERGEN: I do. I think some people could stay home. I think that's a serious danger. Especially after you run anti-establishment race, one of the dangers you don't have apparatus to call on to get votes out and people are tepid in their support. The same thing Hillary's facing to some degree and she has sort of enthusiasm gap. And is that going to show up in the number of people that get out and vote? We don't know right now. But, of course, that's a concern in her campaign. [15:10:10] HARLOW: All right. David Gergen, stay with me. We got to
get a quick break. We will be back with more from David in just a minute. But we have a lot ahead this hour.
The White House promising unconventional speech for the president when you hear is final state of the union Tuesday night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't think I have ever been more optimistic about a year ahead than I am right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: What the president is planning. Is he proving he's not a lame duck?
Also, breaking news out of Italy. An American woman mysterious found dead in her apartment. What her boyfriend just told CNN.
Also, the secret meeting between the infamous drug kingpin El Chapo and actor Sean Penn. Why it happened and the role of famous Mexican actress played in the entire deal.
Stay with us. You're watching CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:13:32] HARLOW: Looking at live pictures in the campaign trail right now. Hillary Clinton at a rally in Manchester, New Hampshire. She will be followed by her daughter Chelsea there on Tuesday.
In Reno, Nevada, on the right, you have Donald Trump swarmed there by people right after he finished his remarks. We will keep an eye on both.
On Tuesday night, the current president, President Obama, will deliver his final state of the union address. He is promising this address will not be a traditional one. That means no laundry list of policy proposals, no recapping of his accomplishments, instead, he will take a last shot in telling Americans why he wants this country to change more and what he think this country can be, something he hinted at in this preview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Not just the progress we have made, not just what I want to get done in the year ahead, but what we all need to do together in the years to come. The big things that will guarantee a stronger, better, more prosperous America for our kids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Back with me, CNN's senior political analyst, former adviser to four presidents, David Gergen. David, how do you read this? I mean, we have got a lot of hints as to
what we are going to hear in the state of the union address, no laundry list they say. Is this a president who you see as trying to fend off those that call him a lame duck or is this a president admitting that he is a lame duck and can't lay out a lot of policy proposals. I have to focus on a few key things?
GERGEN: I think this president wants very much to go out in a dramatic fashion, you know. He's already said he doesn't want to leave anything on the field. He wants to play this out. He has talked repeatedly about this being the fourth quarter of his presidency. His reputation in basketball, he pulls it out in basketball in the last seconds, he likes to make that final shot. I think he has that kind of spirit about him.
So I do think he is going to give us a laundry list of accomplishments. He wants to build his legacy and he wants if Hillary is going to be the nominee, he wants to make sure that he gets his approval rating up enough that it helps her win the White House. So he is going to tell us. And he has got people up in balcony, you know, family, say through Obamacare, for example. He is going to tell us a lot about his accomplishments.
But there is a historical president, back in 1944, and basically in his last state of the union address, Franklin Roosevelt laid out an agenda for the future. It was sort of very idealistic aspirational kind of agenda. It wasn't legislative agenda. But rather while these are the big things we need to do. And that became a template, a model, for a lot of Democrats that followed him. They went back to what FDR had said, you know. And Obama likes to play that kind of role. So I wouldn't be surprised if he does, you know, turn this into. It is a hard speech to give, it's a hard speech to make exciting. Hard speech to rally the country.
Only other thing I would say, Poppy, is I hope the speech does not ignore the international scene because there things are becoming unraveled so rapidly in so many different countries. And people around the country are hugely anxious about this. They don't understand what's happening around the world. They want somebody or somebodies to explain it to them so it doesn't seem like such a dangerous place.
[15:16:44] HARLOW: How does he effectively do that, David? If you're the one advising him as you have so many former presidents, how does he do that when people see him as being reactive to ISIS, his approval ratings are abysmal when it comes to dealing with ISIS. When it comes a week after diplomatic relations between Saudi Arabia and Iran completely broke down and North Korea says they set off a hydrogen bomb.
GERGEN: Well, exactly. So many things happening, North Korea has got a big bomb they exploded, the Saudis and Iranians are getting into it, fisticuffs, maybe be dangerous, to even more destabilizing in the Middle East. And just in the last few days, you know, the stock market has hat the worst beginning in history, based in large part on the turmoil in China. You have got all of these things happening. And I think the president
has to put on his commander in-chief hat during the speech for a significant portion of the speech and say what he is trying to do to solve it. His ISIS speech did not work. People came out thinking he's a holding action. He doesn't have a strategy for victory. He has a strategy to finish out his presidency. And I think what people are looking for, and it's going to affect the presidential race is, what do you think the United States really ought to do about this? Where is the leadership come? How do we keep the Trans-Atlantic partnership with Europe? Europe might fracture over the migration issue. He has got to be the lead player not only the United States, but the world to tell us how to deal with the huge challenges that are opening up.
HARLOW: And let me ask you, before I let you go, David, what the -- reaction to what the White House did this morning. They came out, announced that the guests seated in the first lady's box for the state of the union, they include that, a vacant seat for the victims of gun violence, also you have a Syrian refugee, staff sergeant Spencer Stone, the French train attack hero and also CEO of Microsoft, Satya Nadella. What do you make of those choices? It fascinates me.
GERGEN: They were fascinating choice. I thought it was really smart to have the empty seat because the president clearly, you know, the town hall with Anderson, you know, went well. And he cares about this so deeply. And I think he needs to bring this issue up and keep pushing it. And the array of other things, I think, does give us a clue what's going to be in the speech. You know, you see each one of these different things he's going to talk about the future, technology, Microsoft there, he is going to talk about the health care issues, talk about veterans. You can see the makings of his sort of vision of what the United States ought to be doing in the years ahead.
HARLOW: Yes. And that would be interesting when we find out at some point what this president will do in years ahead once he's out of office.
GERGEN: I know, he's -- yes. It's interesting, isn't it, how his energy has come back as president? Striking to watch this.
HARLOW: David Gergen, thank you so much as always.
GERGEN: Thanks so much, Poppy. Thank you.
HARLOW: You can see all of CNN's special coverage from the best political team on television Tuesday night. Coverage of the state of the union address, President Obama's final one, begins 7:00 p.m. eastern right here.
Still to come, the Mexican government not happy at all with these two actors. You recognize at least one of them, Sean Penn. They certainly have some explaining to do about how they found one of the world's most elusive drug lords when nobody else was able to. Details next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [15:22:52] HARLOW: The prison escape and recapture of the notorious drug lord El Chapo Guzman, it has, well, everything that perhaps you would see in a movie, bad guy, shoot-out, perp walk back to prison but none is fictional, it all real. And also, stunning news that actor Sean Penn was able to interview El Chapo before any authors in the United States or in Mexico were able to find him.
Want to talk about all of this with Brian Stelter, CNN senior media correspondent, host of "RELIABLE SOURCES," CNN legal analyst, Danny Cevallos.
The actress, by the way, you there in the screen, she is the one who helped facilitate this interview. Before I get to the two of them, let's get this report from Nick Valencia in Mexico City.
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Poppy, the article by Sean Penn, for "Rolling Stone," comes a day a half after the capture of El Chapo. In that two-minute clip, posted on "Rolling Stone" Web site, we hear from El Chapo in his own words about his life and his role in drug trafficking.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOAQUIN "EL CHAPO" GUZMAN, DRUG LORD (through text): I want to make clear that this interview is for the exclusive use of Miss Kate Del Castillo and Mister Sean Penn.
VALENCIA (voice-over): For the first time we hear from the drug kingpin himself. Despite being on the run, the drug world, Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman agrees to an interview with actor and activist Sean Penn, a cinematic plot twist to an already surreal story.
GUZMAN (through text): Look. All I do is defend myself. Nothing more. But I do start looking for trouble? Never.
VALENCIA: In a report for "Rolling Stone," Penn writes the pair met face--to-face in October 2015 three months after El Chapo's brazen prison escape. According to Penn, the meeting happened somewhere in the middle of a Mexican jungle and included tequila and tacos. His irrational fear of being watched by armed drones and being surprised by El Chapo's, quote, "chivalry." These clips are part of relies to follow-up questions to Penn sent to a Guzman representative who asked the questions off camera.
[15:25:00] GUZMAN (through text): Well, from the age of 15 and on, where I from, which is the Municipality of Badiraguado, I was raised on a ranch called La Tuna. In that area, and up until today, there are no job opportunities.
VALENCIA: The meeting, Penn says, was brokered by Mexican Kate Del Castillo. It was 2012 when she reportedly developed a friendship with El Chapo after posting a series of tweets critical of the Mexican government while celebrating the notorious drug trafficker. Del Castillo has not commented since its publication of the "Rolling Stone" article Saturday night. CNN has reached out to her. Their communication continued over the course of the next three years
even after the 2014 arrest of El Chapo that landed him here at the (INAUDIBLE) penitentiary. They stayed in touch via blackberry messages and letters. It was that relationship between Dell Castillo and El Chapo that eventually led to the meeting between Sean Penn and the notorious drug lord. It was a month of backdoor dealings that included encrypted messages, disposable phones and even clandestine communications with El Chapo's associates.
In a two minute clip posted "Rolling Stone's" website, El Chapo talks candidly about drug trafficking, violence, and his role in it all.
GUZMAN (through text): Well. It is a reality that drugs destroy. Unfortunately, as I said, where I grew up there was no other way and there still isn't a way to survive. No other way to work in our economy to be able to make a living.
VALENCIA: A senior Mexican law enforcement official tells CNN they want to question both Del Castillo and Penn, specifically about the location where the meeting took place.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VALENCIA: We are now getting contradictory information from the Mexican government as to whether or not they knew about this meeting between Penn and El Chapo. Senior law enforcement official in Mexico tells me that the next cab government did not know about the meeting until it was published on "Rolling Stone's" website on Saturday night.
However, separate source tells CNN that the Mexican government did know about the meeting and it actually helped them lead to the capture of El Chapo on Friday night. It does, however, beg the question if the Mexican government did know about this meeting, why it took them an additional three months to pinpoint El Chapo -- Poppy.
HARLOW: Nick Valencia in Mexico City, thank you very much.
Our senior media correspondent, Brian Stelter here and also CNN legal analyst Danny Cevallos.
Brian, let's begin with you. The timing of this article and your first thought when you saw Sean Penn got to El Chapo before anyone in law enforcement could.
BRIAN STELTER CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: It was shocking, for sure. My first thought what that Sean Penn was in some ways is doing a service here, getting El Chapo On the Record for the first time in decades. He talks about dealing drugs, he talks about how and why he does it, his excuses for doing it, is valuable information. But the way it was obtained was very, very strange. Not the least of which because Sean Penn is an actor and activist, not necessarily a journalist and also because he gave El Chapo prior approval of the article.
HARLOW: And this doesn't happen in journalism. STELTER: No, this is something journalism schools teach you not to
do. The subject of the story was given the article. He got it read it and approve it. Now, "Rolling Stone" says this drug lord never wanted changes in the article. But the mere existence of prior review is very, very unusual.
HARLOW: Danny, did Sean Penn break any laws in Mexico or in the United States by seeking out, speaking with, a drug kingpin one of most wanted men in the world and not going to authorities and saying, by the way, here he is, that we know of yet?
DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: First, let's start with the United States. Now, I say this with the caveat that federal law is so expansive, so broad in its power, both within the U.S. jurisdiction and abroad that there may be a creative prosecutor that may come up with some federal law that was violated. However, as a general rule, citizens don't have a responsibility to go out and report the where about the whereabouts of criminals to assist police officers affirmatively. There is no affirmative duty to go out and do that. So I imagine there's even less of a duty when you are abroad to help local law enforcement.
Now, Mexico may allege that he is in some way assisted a fugitive. But at the same time, they would have to show that he somehow assisted that fugitive in staying a fugitive where all indications are at this point that the very act of seeking out El Chapo may have contributed to his capture.
HARLOW: Brian -- right, and.
STELTER: That's where it gets really interesting.
HARLOW: But Brian, at the same time, when you look at "Rolling Stone," the magazine editorially is responsible for what's on its pages. How do you fact check a drug kingpin?
STELTER: It doesn't seem like there was much editing of this article at all, never mind fact-checking. And there are claims in the article that don't make a lot of sense. I so think this was a different editorial process than "Rolling Stone" was used to. Seemed like Sean Penn worked directly with Jann Wenner, the publisher of the magazine on this.
And we should mention, Sean Penn has written for the magazine before. He has also interviewed Fidel Castro. He has interviewed other people before. In some ways, it is a little bit reminiscent of John Miller, Peter Arnett, other journalists who were able to interview Osama bin Laden in the late 1990s. Again, they extracted important information from bin Laden. It was a dangerous, risky assignment back then. The difference here is that Sean Penn is an actor, no formal training as a journalist. So it is strange in that way. Also, keep in mind, this article was going to be published before El Chapo was captured.
[15:30:41] HARLOW: Either way.
STELTER: Yes. This was in the printing press, about to go to the printing press, when he was captured. That means that Sean Penn wasn't planning or -- there was no indication that he was giving information about the whereabouts to authorities.
HARLOW: What timing, though.
Danny what about protection in Mexico? I mean, obviously the laws are quite different in Mexico and the United States. You have also got Mexico sort of, you know, shamed by the fact that he escaped once from their prison. Andy he kind of, I don't know, could we see Sean Penn face any charges in Mexico?
CEVALLOS: Isn't it interesting that we've been talking about extradition from Mexico back to the United States, and now people may be talking about can Mexico force Sean Penn to appear in Mexico for an investigation? Now, he is not charged with anything yet. But can you force this citizen, U.S. citizen out of the U.S. to at least answer what we are hearing as called answer some questions or whatever the Mexican government wants to do for their investigation. And it is a far bigger thing to demand that U.S. citizen leave the country just to answer some questions.
If, on the other hand, he is charged with a crime, we are going to see a fascinating reversal here because this is a bilateral treaty. That means that both sides should honor the other's request within the rules and parameter of the treaty.
HARLOW: And I think will a celebrity be treated differently at all than an average citizen?
STELTER: Of course, Sean Penn wants a conversation to be what he says is our failed drug war. He wants El Chapo in some ways to be humanized, personalized by the story. I'm not sure that has been the result, though. It's a pretty despicable story from the perspective what El Chapo says about why he deals drugs for a living.
HARLOW: Danny, quickly?
CEVALLOS: And depending on your perspective, Poppy, when you talk about Sean Penn being a celebrity, you could make the argument that in his home country, El Chapo is a far bigger celebrity than Sean Penn ever was, respectfully to both sides.
HARLOW: All right. Brian, thank you. Danny, thank you. Appreciate it.
Coming up next, I'm going to take you to Italy, an American woman's mysterious death there in Florence triggering a murder investigation. Police found Ashley Olson with bruises and scratches on her neck in her apartment. Up next, hear what her boyfriend just told CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:36:01] HARLOW: Into breaking news out of Italy. U.S. state department confirmed the death of an American woman in Florence. You are looking at images of her there, mysterious circumstances triggering a homicide investigation for Ashley Olsen, a 35-year-old artist from Florida found dead in her Florence apartment. Police discovered her with bruises and scratches around her neck. No suspects have emerged yet. Police did speak wet her boyfriend who became concerned when he didn't hear from her for days. Friends say Olsen was frequently spotted around Florence walking her beloved dog, beagle named Scout.
CNN contributor Barbie Nadeau is in Rome.
And I know you spoke with her boyfriend who is the one who ultimately found her when he went with the landlord to knock on her apartment door after not hearing from her for days. What did he say to you?
BARBIE NADEAU, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, he basically said he couldn't make any comment whatsoever because of the investigation. But we do know that they had a fight some three days before her body was found. And that he had tried to call her. She didn't answer. And then eventually her phone just didn't work at all. And that's when he became very concerned that something had gone wrong.
He went to the landlady, she opened the apartment, found her body without any clothes on on the sofa in her apartment in Florence. She rented alone. She lived a very tiny studio apartment. But really, you know, the life so many people dream of, go to Florence, live this life. She has moved two years ago after her marriage broke up in the United States to join her father who is an architect and an instructor in an institute there in Florence. So she really was getting her life back together. It seems that she had lots of friends, very well- liked, very well-known, very recognizable, you know, just really, no one has anything so far by any means bad to say about her, Poppy.
HARLOW: I know they are doing an autopsy. Do we know when that might be done?
NADEAU: The autopsy is scheduled for tomorrow, which means we may get some information tomorrow afternoon. For sure, we should hear something by Tuesday. May take longer for toxicology reports, though.
HARLOW: And what about reports that we are just hearing about in the last few hours about her Instagram account, specifically some posts made in the days before her death?
NADEAU: That's right. A couple of weeks ago she, according to Instagram account which is still public, she started posting pictures that someone had taken of her and she had use #ihaveastalker, #thisiscreepy. But we don't know those were she got those photos that she found them on Instagram, if someone sent to her. But some people who have been interviewed in the neighborhood where she lived in Florence said that she did talk about her fear that someone was taking these pictures of her, that I'm sure is part of the investigation.
The police took her computer. They are looking for anything they have on that personal computer that could lead them in the direction of her killer.
HARLOW: Absolutely. So sad. Just 35 years old.
Barbie, thank you very much, live for us in Rome tonight.
Still ahead, President Obama lays out his plan to tackle gun violence in America. Is it enough? I will speak with the father who lost his son to gun violence nearly ten years ago. What he said he would ask the president.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:42:16] HARLOW: Michael Fineman was gunned down by a stranger while he was out to dinner with his wife. He was an army medic, a father of three, he was remembered for his boundless energy and his verve for living. At his funeral a friend described him as quote "a tornado of a man who was so animated." The quote "if you had to tie his hands down the guy would never be able to talk." His killer was finally captured after a two of month manhunt and that's when Fineman's wife spoke publicly about her loss.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THUY FINEMAN, HUSBAND WAS GUNNED DOWN IN CAFE: And I just hope justice will be served so my husband Michael will be able to rest in peace. I miss Michael a lot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: That was in 2007. And Michael's father, Elliot, vowed to honor his son's death by fighting for tougher gun control.
Found somewhere CEO of national gun victim's action council, Elliott Fineman joins me now. Thank you for being with me.
ELLIOT FINEMAN, FATHER OF MICHAEL FINEMAN, KILLED BY GUNMAN: Thank you for having me, Poppy.
HARLOW: No doubting you have been watching this conversation very closely, the town hall here on CNN with the president about guns this week. Tell me about your son and your fight in the aftermath of his death.
FINEMAN: Well, my son's killer, it would turn out to be, had been in a mental institution two times and, despite having been in an institution two times. And despite having been in an institution two times, was legally able to buy the gun that killed my son.
When I was able to function after hearing about my son's murder, I decided that I would dedicate the rest of my life to working on the gun issue and to bring my skill set -- I had my own practice. I was a strategic marketing adviser to Fortune 500 companies, to bring that skill set into the fight for same gun laws.
HARLOW: You wrote a CNN.com op-ed this week after the president's town hall and you said this. You said the president needs executive action that cannot be obstructed by Congress. It is only possible under a declared national state of emergency for the gun violence epidemic. Examples of executive actions that are necessary would be blocked by Congress, absent and declared national state of emergency include universal real background checks, suspending the gun industry's immunity from lawsuits, monitoring ammunition sales and banning those on the terror watch list from buying guns.
You say the president needs to call those a national state of emergency. And you also say that if you had a chance to ask him that question that's what you would say, why not call this a state of emergency? Do you think that's realistic? Do you think that could happen?
[15:45:04] FINEMAN: First of all, it's not only realistic, it's almost required under the national emergency's act. When there's a threat to the public safety in health, the president is obliged to call the national state of emergency if it can't be contained by normal means. We have a death rate of 82 people losing their lives every day to guns, a cost over $625 million a day. If that's not a national emergency, I don't know what is. And he should call it because the executive orders that he can issue under a national state of emergency are the ones that need to be issued. The ones that he issued absent calling one are meaningless.
HARLOW: He did issue more money funding for mental health issues and care for example. And as you said, your son was murdered by someone who had been to a mental institution twice. Does that give you any hope to see that included?
FINEMAN: The mental health is something we should always invest in. It's an important social goal and one that we should cherish and work for. But it's just a red herring that the NRA and the pro-gunners throw up every time there is a gun massacre.
The fact is that the mental health is not the reason we have people doing gun massacres who have mental problems. In all of the other developed countries such as ours, England, France, Italy, Germany, Japan, Canada, Sweden, they have the same percentage of people with mental health issues as we have. But they don't have people with mental health issues committing gun massacres. Why? Because they have sane gun laws and they keep the guns out of hands of people with mental health issues.
HARLOW: Let me ask you this, Elliot. Ultimately for there to be sweeping change like what was proposed after the Sandy Hook massacre in Newtown, Congress needs to do it, frankly. It can't be the president, can't be executive order. And we have not seen an appetite for that among our leaders in legislature right now to get something through. Do you have any hope that Congress will? And is this a single voting issue for you and those that you know? Will they vote on guns? As the president said in his op-ed in the "New York Times" this week, he said I will not vote for certain lawmakers if they haven't done x, y and z on guns. Is it a single voting issue at this point for those you know?
FINEMAN: It's a fantasy to think that Congress will do anything about the gun violence issue because the math doesn't work. There are 17 pro-gun states, Utah, South Dakota, Wyoming, Alabama, where the senators represent what the people want and they will never vote for any sane gun law. That 17 states means 34 senators are gone. So to pass anything you need 60 senators, and that would require getting 60 out of the remaining 66 to support it. It's not going to happen. The only way we're going to get sane gun laws for the president to declare a national state of emergency, and we have a petition on our Web site, www.gunvictimsaction.org. And you can go there and sign that petition. We've got to let him know that there's 500,000 of us that want him to do what he needs to do and what he's supposed to do.
HARLOW: Elliott Fineman, thank you very much for joining me. And also, I'm just so sorry for the loss of your son. Thank you, Elliott.
FINEMAN: Thank you, Poppy.
HARLOW: Two nights from now, President Obama will give his final state of the union speech. One of his great challenges, a world in turmoil and millions of Americans living in fear of terror. What can the American people, the world, need to hear from this president in his final state of the union address?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:52:21] HARLOW: Just days after North Korea claims that it tested a powerful hydrogen bomb, the U.S. blew a b-52 bomber over South Korea, their warning sent from the United States. North Korea, just one of the many foreign policy headaches, frankly, facing President Obama right now as he prepares to give his final state of the union address.
Let's talk about what's ahead especially on the foreign policy front, Aaron David Miller is with me.
Thank you for being with me. You are a scholar on the Middle East. You've been so many years studying it, advising leaders so many leaders on it. You wrote this op-ed article in a journal this week titled "how foreign affairs will shape Obama's final year and legacy. We know that his state of the union address will be in part about reassuring Americans that they're safe at home. What do you think he can do in his final year to actually make that happen?
AARON DAVID MILLER, VICE PRESIDENT, WOODROW WILSON CENTER: I mean presidential rhetoric is a funny thing. We have this notion that somehow words can inspire, words can motivate. But words are no substitute for results or actions.
In the first year of any administration, words are difficult to use to persuade. In the eighth year where a president's image on foreign policy is clearly locked in the public's mind as unsuccessful, I think it's going to be extremely difficult for the president to make a case that somehow he can reassure the country on a couple of issues, one in particular, the fear of another terror attack.
HARLOW: Right.
MILLER: It's going to be a tough case to make. And the other issue is this administration has a tendency, fair or unfair, to allow their rhetoric to outstrip their capacity to act and get results. So this is going to be a tough sell. HARLOW: What do you mean about that? Are you talking about drawing
a, quote/unquote "red line on Syria" and then not acting on it?
MILLER: There is that. And there is the repeated efforts to use rhetoric to demonstrate the fact the president thinks Assad. Bashar Assad must go. And you know, the cruelest of irony is that Bashar Assad is like to be around much longer than Barack Obama. Call for comprehensive freeze. Middle East peace agreement, training Syrian opposition, $500 million commitment. All of these things, it is tough hand the president was dealt. I mean, you have got to be fair. But the reality is words won't do it anymore, particularly in the eighth year of a presidency.
HARLOW: So should he say less on that front? I mean when it comes to is, for example, you've got 64 percent of Americans as of mid-December who were disappointed, disapprove of his ISIS strategy. Should he say less on that and do more?
[15:55:01] MILLER: I mean the problem is, yes, he should say yes and not overpromise even while he tries to reassure. I mean clearly he doesn't want to create the image that Americans should live in fear. After all, 14 years after 9/11, there still hasn't been a successful attack on the United States directed --
HARLOW: Right.
MILLER: -- by a foreign terrorist organization. The problem is, Poppy, that he faces either lost causes or long shots abroad. And wherever you go, I mean three out of the four or four out of the four tests that the North Koreans have undertaken, have occurred on the president's watch.
HARLOW: Right.
MILLER: They could make the argument, of course, this the Iranian nuclear agreement prevented the Obama administration from having to deal with two nuclear crises rather than one. But the reality is the president is, in some respects, going to be driven by events. He has really no longer in control of them. And this I think is the real danger. You get another set of San Bernardino --.
HARLOW: So let me ask you this quickly though. When you look at Iran, I want to read you what the speaker of Iran's parliament said today, basically coming out, warning Congress on adopting any quote- unquote "anti-Iranian measures." Saying if the U.S. government does not prevent Congress' anti-Iranian measures, Iran's parliament will adopt reciprocal measures.
Given the breakdown in the last week of Saudi-Iranian diplomatic relations whatsoever, how big of a challenge is that for this president in his final year?
MILLER: I think it's a big deal because it almost ensures the fight against the Islamic state is going to be more complicated. The Iranians will continue to back Bashar Assad, the Saudis will back the Sunni opposition and including groups we don't like and sectarian tensions between Sunnis and Shia are basically going to increase in Yemen, in Iraq, and clearly in Syria.
So, now the images that there is a world on fire out there, and the president is going have a very difficult time controlling it, and that, I expect, is going to be his a greatest foreign policy in the year ahead that it's going to be tough, really, to find comprehensive or definitive solutions to any of these problems.
HARLOW: Aaron David Miller, thank you so much. Nice to have you on.
MILLER: Nice to see you.
HARLOW: Straight ahead, the actor and the kingpin. Details surrounding the secret meeting between infamous El Chapo and actor Sean Penn. I will speak with a Chicago cartel attorney, the man alleged drug lords turn to for defense. What is next for El Cahpo? And what about Sean Penn?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
