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Sean Penn Secretly Met with "El Chapo"; Trump Hammers Away at Cruz's Citizenship; Government Creates New Task Force Against Online Terrorism; Guns in America; Obama's Last State of the Union; Slain Reporter's Boyfriend on Obama's Town Hall. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired January 10, 2016 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:59:38] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour, 7:00 p.m. Eastern, 4:00 p.m. Pacific. I'm Poppy Harlow this Sunday evening. Thank you for joining me.

An Oscar winning actor in the United States now in the spotlight in the investigation into drug kingpin El Chapo: Sean Penn reporting for "Rolling Stone Magazine" the details of how he secretly met with Mexico's most notorious drug lord, Joaquin El Chapo Guzman while the cartel leader was a most wanted fugitive. Sean Penn had help. A television actress from Mexico made the arrangements for the meeting and like Sean Penn kept it all secret.

Mexican authorities are looking to speak with both of them. We have details from our Nick Valencia near Mexico City.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOAQUIN EL CHAPO GUZMAN, MEXICAN DRUG LORD (through translator): I want to make clear that this interview is for the exclusive use of Miss Kate del Castillo and Mr. Sean Penn.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: For the first time, we hear from the drug kingpin, himself. Despite being on the run, the drug lord, Joaquin El Chapo Guzman agrees to an interview with actor and activist Sean Penn, a cinematic plot twist to an already surreal story.

GUZMAN: Look, all I do is defend myself. Nothing more. But do I start looking for trouble? Never.

VALENCIA: In a report for "Rolling Stone" Penn writes the pair met face to face in October 2015, three months after El Chapo's brazen prison escape. According to Penn the meeting happened somewhere in the middle of a Mexican jungle and included tequila and tacos. His irrational fear of being watched by armed drones and being surprised by El Chapo's, quote, "chivalry".

These clips are part of replies for follow-up questions from Penn sent to a Guzman representative who asked the questions off camera.

GUZMAN: Well, from the age 15 and on, where I'm from, I was raised on a ranch called La Tuna. In that area and up until today there are no job opportunities. VALENCIA: The meeting, Penn says, was brokered by Mexican actress, Kate del Castillo. It was 2012 when del Castillo reportedly developed a friendship with El Chapo after posting a series of tweets critical of the Mexican government while celebrating the notorious drug trafficker. Del Castillo has not commented since publication of the "Rolling Stone" article Saturday night. CNN has reached out to her.

Their communication continued over the course of the next three years even after the 2014 arrest of El Chapo that landed him here at the Altiplano Penitentiary. They stayed in touch via Blackberry messages and letters.

And it was that relationship between del Castillo and El Chapo that eventually led to the meeting between Sean Penn and the notorious drug lord. It was a month of backdoor dealings that included encrypted messages, disposable phones and even clandestine communications with El Chapo's associates.

In a two-minute clip, posted in the "Rolling Stone" Web site, El Chapo talks candidly about drug trafficking, violence and his role in it all.

GUZMAN: Well, it's a reality that drugs destroy. Unfortunately, as I said, where I grew up there was no other way and there still isn't a way to survive. No other way to work in our economy to be able to make a living.

VALENCIA: A senior Mexican law enforcement official tells CNN they want to question both del Castillo and Penn specifically about the location where the meeting took place.

Nick Valencia, CNN, Almoloya de Juarez, Mexico.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: And according to the article written by Sean Penn during his seven-hour interview with El Chapo, the drug lord boasts about trafficking more heroin, cocaine, and marijuana than anyone else in the world. Guzman, of course, no longer at large -- you see him there apprehended by the authorities. Mexican Special Forces tracked him down and recaptured him after a firefight just about 48 hours ago.

Federal prosecutors in Mexico have said that they have started the process to extradite him to the United States where he is a wanted man facing charges in eight different states.

Ioan Grillo joins me now from Mexico City. He's a journalist. He's the author of several books including the upcoming "Gangster War Lords"; also with us from Los Angeles tonight, Joey Jackson, CNN legal analyst. Thank you, both, for being here.

Joey, to you first -- what could Sean Penn face, legally, in the United States or in Mexico, at least being compelled to testify?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Poppy, good evening to you. I don't see the criminal liability at this point without more. Remember what we're speaking about is we're speaking about a person who is on a journalistic mission. I mean one could argue if you're his defense attorney, Sean Penn that is, that he's performed quite a service --

HARLOW: Right.

JACKSON: -- and that he has gotten El Chapo to admit to numerous things about his background, about his history, about his dealings and to come clean. And to the extent that he now, El Chapo, is in the jurisdiction of the Mexican authorities and facing prosecution, this could be valuable information moving forward.

[19:04:55] But if you're talking about a prosecution, there's not a crime and it's not a crime to speak to a fugitive. It's not a crime to take a picture with a fugitive as we're looking there. There needs to be some kind of aiding, abetting, assisting or providing material support.

So without having any other knowledge as to how he would have done that, simply going and speaking to him while potentially morally reprehensible, he's an international fugitive, what is Sean Penn thinking? Without more, I just don't see the criminality in terms of obstructing justice, hindering prosecution, harboring a felon or anything that would meet the elements of the statute as they're written at this point.

HARLOW: Ioan, what do you make of the fact -- I mean you've covered these drug kingpins including El Chapo for years and years. What do you think of the fact that he granted this interview to Sean Penn?

IOAN GRILLO, JOURNALIST/AUTHOR: I think it's very interesting. It shows this kind of weird merging of fantasy and reality that has been in the Mexican drug lord. Alongside, you've got an actor who's played gangsters. He played Mickey Cohen in the film "Gangster Squad" and then you've got a gangster who this film is being made about him and they both are enamored with each other.

Also, perhaps Guzman really wanted to meet Kate de Castillo, the soap opera actress who brokered this. She played also a drug queen pin in this soap opera. And, you know, many drug traffickers like to watch that. They like to watch these movies about themselves.

HARLOW: Joey, why would he say all of these things including on camera, that 17-minute video, you just saw some of it in Nick's piece that could be admissible in his trials here in the United States. Why would you do that?

JACKSON: It certainly would be admissible. I mean these are admissions about who he is, about his background, about why he engaged in the trade. No other way to survive.

And so you would have to think, I mean there is another film that is out there that deals with a Colombian drug lord that was very popular. Potentially, you know, maybe he wants a film to be made about himself to restore -- to restore, resolve his legacy. A lot of good things have been said by people there about him being Robin Hood and giving to the community. And so who knows psychologically what he was thinking as far as what this could lead to.

But from a legal perspective, obviously, Poppy, you know what we tell people all the time from a defense perspective, don't say anything to anyone at any time. So these are damning admissions and to the extent, again that he now is in the custody of authorities whether he'll be prosecuted in Mexico or the United States remains an open question, but the fact that he was talking cannot at all assist in any defense.

HARLOW: You knows -- and let's remember, obviously the headlines here, Sean Penn, big Hollywood star, you know, this drug kingpin apprehended, it's all on video, plays out like a movie in and of itself. But when you get down to why this matters -- it matters because so many people die from drug addiction. And he facilitated that --

JACKSON: Absolutely.

HARLOW: -- and enabled it on and on and on.

So Ioan, when you look at what really matters, which is that, does his capture do anything to slow the drug trade, does it help? Or is his cartel, the Sinaloa cartel so much bigger than just him as a figurehead?

GRILLO: Yes, it's much bigger. I think in the drug world, you could compare the Sinaloa cartel to, say, Coca-Cola -- the kind of leading brand. And like with Coca-Cola if you took away the CEO, the company still works. You got the people who are growing opium which is made into heroin. You've got people who are making crystal meth. You've got people tracking that to the United States, the people selling that. And that machine keeps on rolling every day.

But really you've got to look at the emblematic value of this. I mean Mexico, the United States you cannot allow a kingpin of this level to get away with this. To get to break out the top security prison, to be flaunting, you know, flaunting his wealth, flaunting his power, talking to Hollywood actors.

If you allow a kingpin to do this, what does it say to the young people growing up now looking at their options on the Mexican streets? People who say, what can I do to get by in life? Do I want to be like the Mexican president or do I want to be like Chapo Guzman?

HARLOW: Ioan Grillo -- thank you very much. Joey Jackson, thank you as well.

JACKSON: Thank you -- Poppy.

HARLOW: I do want to turn now to presidential politics. Donald Trump launching new attacks on Ted Cruz; Ted Cruz, of course, ahead of him in the key state of Iowa right now. The focus right now of Trump's attacks, whether or not Ted Cruz will be eligible to be president since he was born in Canada.

Before this, Trump famously questioned whether President Obama was actually born in Hawaii. Was he actually born in the United States? As for Cruz, he freely admits to being born in Canada to a U.S. citizen mother.

Maeve Reston joins us now from Reno -- that's where Trump held a rally earlier today. He will not let this up. He goes on and on and on about it. And it was interesting. M.J. Lee was telling us last night that some of the voters at his rally in Iowa were surprised and sort of bothered by this concern about Cruz's citizenship. It's working for Trump, it seems.

[19:10:08] MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: yes, and obviously here in Nevada, it's a very different constituency than in Iowa but it was really fascinating talking to folks in the crowd earlier today, some of them saying that they had never heard this aspect of Ted Cruz's background. Starting to question whether, as Donald Trump alleges, this really could be a potent legal issue for Ted Cruz.

And as you said, Poppy, today Donald Trump did a wide-ranging speech but would not let this issue go. Kept coming back to it again and again saying the Democrats will sue if Ted Cruz is the Republican nominee. I think we have a little bit of that sound to take a listen to.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And here's the problem. It's called uncertainty. It's called -- you just don't know. Now, already a congressman and another congressman and by the time -- it's going to happen. Nobody's more -- does anybody know more about litigation than Trump? Ok? I know a lot. I'm like a PhD in litigation. Ok?

And what's going to happen the other side will bring a suit. Now, is he a natural-born citizen? Some people -- I don't know. Honestly, we don't know. Who the hell knows?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RESTON: So a lot of people in the crowd saying, you know, that some of them saying that this is just a distraction. There are a lot of people we talked to here today who are deciding between these two men.

So it will be fascinating to see the way that this plays out. And I have to tell you, Poppy, that "Born in the U.S.A." played no less than five times on the playlist today at the rally. So I don't think that was a coincidence. Obviously Trump is not going to let this go for some time to come.

HARLOW: You wonder if someone has the job picking the music for these things -- right. Maeve Reston -- thank you very much -- joining us, live.

RESTON: I think so.

HARLOW: I think you're right -- live from Reno tonight. Thank you very much.

Ahead this, a lot of news to get to. The President's final state of the union address: how do you deliver on an ambitious agenda when you know half of congress is counting down the days until you're out of office?

Also next, with me Laurie Segall with an inside look at what happened when some of top executives from Silicon Valley sat down with some of the top folks at the White House, national security advisers, for one singular goal, finding a strategy to beat ISIS online.

Also how hard is it for a so-called good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun? You've heard a lot of the candidates talking about this.

Miguel Marquez in active shooter training, he found out for himself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Out of all the events we looked at, there are about 3 percent of the events where it was somebody with a firearm who stopped the shooter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: The White House announcing it is creating a new task force to help stop terrorists from using the Internet to recruit and radicalize. It needs help and it needs help from Silicon Valley. Government officials meeting this week with some top Silicon Valley leaders from companies like Apple, Facebook and Twitter just to name a few. They were asked for help in identifying these potential terror suspects.

The issue at the core of this, though, is where's the line on privacy, right? Because you've heard these tech companies come out and say they're also worried about protecting users' privacy. That's a legal issue, too.

Laurie Segall is with me now. This happened on Friday. It was a big deal because sort of the Washington folk went out to Silicon Valley for this and there has been a tension, if you will, between some in Washington and Silicon Valley. You just got off the phone with someone who was at the meeting. What happened?

LAURIE SEGALL, CNN MONEY TECH CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's funny because one of the first things he said to me was, they were on our turf. They came to have the meeting here. But what he said was he went in cynical but it turned into almost like a gigantic brainstorming session. So a little bit of color.

There were ten top security officials at the table, ten executives -- huge tech executives. We're talking folks from Facebook, Sheryl Sandberg, Reid Hoffman; Apple CEO Tim Cook. And they spoke a lot about -- they sort of threw out the agenda, right.

At first they just started talking and then it just went everywhere. They talked about tech solutions and taking on ISIS. One thing that was very interesting, the government asked these folks, they said we have anti-ISIS videos we want to serve up, almost anti-propaganda, how do we make them go viral? They asked the YouTube CEO how to make them go viral.

HARLOW: But you can't really. People have to want to make them go viral.

SEGALL: Yes. But, you know, when you're with a good group of tech folks, it's the best people to ask. And what one person from Facebook said was, you know, what we do is we identify people who might be suicidal and we serve up ads, we serve up ads that send positive messaging toward them or suicide hotlines. We tell friends to check in on them. What if we tried to apply that technique to folks who might be radicalized online?

HARLOW: That's interesting.

SEGALL: This was during the brainstorming session. Another really interesting point was can you monitor online how radicalized someone is becoming? They had this discussion around the table. Also can you do that without questioning your First Amendment rights?

Silicon Valley -- the government also asked Silicon Valley to open up the rolodex. They said we can't do this alone. We need to hire the best and brightest people. So you have --

HARLOW: But then they have to pay them what Silicon Valley --

SEGALL: Yes, exactly and also those perks are very different. The Silicon Valley perks are very different. It's really kind of "we're coming to you to ask for help" which is a big deal because --

HARLOW: Sounds like overall a pretty successful meeting.

SEGALL: Yes, it was. You have to remember that there's been so much tension between Silicon Valley and Washington because you had years ago the Snowden revelations. What happened then was people -- when Snowden leaked these documents people were very upset with tech companies. They said what are you doing with our personal data? Are you handing this over to the government? Are you protecting our privacy?

So anyone in Silicon Valley will say we don't want to appear too close to the government.

And then there's the encryption debate -- right. You've had Washington saying we might want a back door for encryption. You have Silicon Valley standing against that. So you have a lot of tensions but you did have President Obama about a month ago after the San Bernardino shootings say we really need to come to the table. HARLOW: Now, Laurie, what's interesting, you bring up that tension --

long time this has been brewing between some in Washington and the tech companies over the encryption and privacy issues.

In the first lady's box at the state of the union address will be Satya Nadella, the CEO of Microsoft. So what message do you think is being sent there?

SEGALL: That's a huge deal. I mean I think you're seeing a lot of Silicon Valley folks go over to Washington. You're seeing Washington really call on Silicon Valley. You're seeing more candidates when -- you'll see Hillary Clinton do some kind of event with folks from Y Combinator (ph) which big incubator in the valley.

So you're seeing this world come together in a really interesting way. But you know, we've seen ISIS utilize digital and social -- Twitter, Facebook in ways that we never envisioned. So we need these people. We need the people that built the technology to help.

HARLOW: Remember the chief technology officer of the United States now is Meagan Smith who ran a major division at Google not long ago and she said to me, you know, we in Silicon Valley have a duty to come work and help the government for a few years and that's just sort of an interesting phenomenon to see.

SEGALL: Meagan smith, by the way, was at that meeting so you're seeing that kind of come together.

HARLOW: There you go. The worlds come together.

Laurie -- thank you. Appreciate it as always. Much more of Laurie's reporting on this on CNN Money.

Coming up, this --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: -- the good guy, legally carrying a concealed weapon when a shooting breaks out.

[19:20:01] I hear shooting down a long dimly lit hallway. I take a peek then shoot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: So can a good guy with a gun stop a bad guy with a gun -- an active shooter? Our Miguel Marquez answers that question as he participates in an active shooting simulation. You'll only see it here next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: As the national debate on guns in America continues, there is one issue that keeps coming up and up and you hear from some of the presidential candidates, can a good person with a gun stop a bad person with a gun or an active shooter? This was part of the debate, the town hall on CNN with President Obama on Thursday night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If you look at the statistics, there's no doubt that there are times where somebody who has a weapon has been able to protect themselves and scare off an intruder or an assailant, but what is more often the case is that they may not have been able to protect themselves, but they end up being the victim of the weapon that they purchased themselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: So how likely is it that someone can stop an active shooter? Our own Miguel Marquez tried to answer that question. He participated, himself, in one of these simulations.

MARQUEZ: Poppy, with active shooter incidents driving the gun debate across the country, we came to the one place here in Texas that can show us how difficult it is to stop an active shooter.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUEZ: That's an AR-15 like the gun used in San Bernardino, the Aurora Colorado, movie theater massacre and Sandy Hook Elementary to name a few.

That's a .9 millimeter, popular handgun used in San Bernardino and many other shootings. The advanced law enforcement rapid response training at Texas State University trains law enforcement agencies nationwide in handling active shooter incidents. ALERT runs the largest training program in the country. It is the go-to organization for law enforcement agencies nationwide in preparing for mass casualty and specialized emergencies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's body armor. That's the standard body armor that my patrol officers wear.

[19:25:06] MARQUEZ: They run a scenario, the guns firing rounds made of soap. I was the good guy legally carrying a concealed weapon when a shooting breaks out.

I hear shooting down a long dimly lit hallway. I take a peek then shoot my own producer, Brian Vitaliano (ph), hitting him once in the chest.

As I moved down the hallway, another student pops out. I don't shoot him and am able to stop the gunman.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We hear the shots. We know the problem is down here. I'm kind of pushing him, let's go, let's go, because, again if we're coming to try to stop the active shooter, we got to get to the active shooter.

MARQUEZ: From 2000 to 2013, there were 160 active shooter incidents in 40 of the 50 states, both rural and urban areas. In the first seven years of the study, there were about six incidents each year then the frequency increased sharply -- more than doubling to roughly 16 incidents every year.

Pete (inaudible), who runs ALERT authored that report. He says active shooter situations are so chaotic; in only a tiny number of incidents did someone with a gun stop a shooter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now out of all the events we looked at, there were about 3 percent of the events where it was somebody with a firearm how stopped the shooter.

MARQUEZ: In 2014, a Darby, Pennsylvania doctor shot and killed a gunman who had killed one person. And in 2008, a man with a concealed weapon stopped a gun man in Winamuka (ph), Nevada after the gunman had killed two people and injured two others.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not anti-gun at all. I have a concealed handgun license myself.

MARQUEZ: But in an active shooter situation, you would not want just anyone pulling out a gun and trying to save the day?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, what we say is there's a lot that goes into it. And so looking at the situation and saying what's happening right now.

MARQUEZ: ALERT emphasized a good guy with a gun could kill innocent people. They could be shot by police or other civilians mistaking them for the attacker or --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. Pop -- what we have is a malfunction.

MARQUEZ: Reporter: three times the .9 millimeter jammed while I was firing it and that was just practice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You literally have to strip the magazine out, work it like this, reinsert the magazine, and then you can shoot again.

MARQUEZ: Without hundreds or thousands of hours of training, a rookie mistake like a jammed weapon, just a few seconds to clear it could mean a good guy with a gun becomes another victim.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok. Very good.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUEZ: Despite knowing that that scenario was fake, despite having some training and understanding of what was coming and despite the fact that I took out the gunman, I still made the huge mistake of accidentally shooting my own colleague.

Gives you an idea of just how complicated these active shooter situations can be. And as they say at ALERT, it takes thousands of hours to be able to take on a situation like that -- Poppy.

HARLOW: Fascinating. Miguel -- thank you so much for that.

Coming up next, politics: the President's allies awaiting his last state of the union address.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: This is the last one. This is the last state of the union and there's no deceleration in this guy. There's no deceleration. This is the guy that we voted for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: That is one side, but the President's critics counting down the days until he is out of office.

So how will President Obama handle one of his last major addresses to the nation? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: This tuesday night, President Obama will deliver his final State of the Union address. He is promising this will be not a traditional speech, that means no laundry list of policy proposals, no recapping of his accomplishments. Instead he wants to talk about the future. Our Jim Acosta has a preview.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SERNIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Poppy, White House officials say the president will deliver an unconventional speech during his final state of the union on Tuesday. The president will talk about the America he hopes to see after he leaves office but there are still a few things he wants to accomplish over the coming year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFED MALE: The president of the United States.

ACOSTA (VOICE-OVER): The Obama years are flying by fast. Up next his last state of the union address in his video tweeted out by his chief of staff, the president said his speech will focus on his vision for the post-Obama years.

BARACK OBAMA, U.S. PRESIDENT: The big things that will guarantee an even stronger, better, more prosperous America for our kids. The America we believe in.

Every time I think about those kids, it gets me mad.

ACOSTA: At the top of the president's agenda for 2016, gun control. To remember victims of gun violence, one seat in the first lady's box at the state of the union will be left empty. As the president explained on a conference call with supporters.

OBAMA: We want them to be seen and understood that their absence means something to this country. ACOSTA: White House aides say the president will not only defend his

executive actions on guns but will talk about his plan to close the terror detention prison at Guantanamo, pass criminal justice reform and take the fight to ISIS. Obama administration veterans are getting nostalgic.

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: This is going to be an incredibly emotional moment I think for folks. I mean, I think about speech after speech. This is the last one. This is the last state of the union. And there's no deceleration in this guy. There's no deceleration. This is the guy that we voted for.

ACOSTA: Heading into the eighth year of these speeches to the country starting at the depths of a financial crisis -

OBAMA: Experts from across the political spectrum warned if we did not act, we might face a second depression.

ACOSTA: The president has turned gray right before our eyes. The most memorable moments, a Supreme Court justice grimacing at the president in 2010.

OBAMA: With all due deference to separation of powers, last week the Supreme Court reversed a century of law that I believe will open the flood gates for special interests including foreign corporations to spend without limit in our election.

ACOSTA: And Mr. Obama's last stirring tribute to the families of mass shooting victims in 2013.

OBAMA: The families of Newtown deserve a vote.

ACOSTA: The White House has hinted there won't be a long laundry list of proposals in this final state of the union, an acknowledgement that time is winding down and Congress is looking to the next election.

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president's message is mostly going to be focused on looking beyond the next election and making sure we're making decisions that are going to ensure that our children and their children inherit a country that's as strong and as safe and as prosperous as it's ever been.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[19:35:00]

ACOSTA: While the president has focused on his domestic agenda in recent days, White House officials say there will be a major portion of the "State of the Union" dedicated to the war on ISIS. In recent days the White House has revamped its efforts for countering ISIS terrorists on social media. After Paris and San Bernardino, top aides say defeating ISIS will be an overarching issue of the president's final year in office. Poppy?

HARLOW: Jim, thank you very much. Joining me now, Don Baer. He is a former White House communications

director and also he was chief speechwriter for former president Bill Clinton. He is now CEO of (INAUDIBLE). Thank you for being with me.

You know what the pressure is like right now. Because you've written a lot of the state of the union addresses. This one is a play for legacy, no question. All about the future they're saying. How does he handle this, how does he walk the line when especially on foreign policy he has so many, frankly, headaches right now?

DON BAER, FMR. CLINTON WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: There are different ways to look at this state of the union. Often it's a report card, often it's a setting of the agenda for the future, for the next year. We have to remember what it really is about. It's about the state of the union, of our country together.

I have a feeling that President Obama is going to leave us Tuesday night where he started. To go all the way back to July the 27th, 2004. What happened that night at the Democratic Convention in Boston where he was the keynote speaker, it's the moment where he first really burst on the American scene and he said, "there's no liberal America, there's no conservative America, there's one United States of America."

And I think that is the tone and the theme I'm betting that he wants to sort of project and also to make it clear there's lots of reason for optimism about where we are as a country notwithstanding everything we hear in the elections and from different people right now trying to sort of say things aren't the way they should be. I think he wants Americans to believe they're good, but we can make them better if we come together.

As far as foreign policy is concerned, I hope that he's going to say America has to lead in the world, that when we don't lead in the world, there are things that happen that really we can't control and while we cannot be the only actor, we have to be the essential actor and I do believe that he will lean into that as well.

HARLOW: I thought it was interesting to hear Dennis McDonough, the White House chief of staff, suggesting to Jake Tapper this morning that this president is not going to be endorsing any of the democratic candidates during the primary process. "a," what do you make of that, and when is it appropriate, do you think, for a sitting president to pick?

BAER: Well, you know, historically, you've seen different rhythms with regard to that and a campaign like this, and, of course, Secretary Clinton really comes from his administration, many of the people who have worked for President Obama are working for her campaign at this point.

HARLOW: Right.

BAER: But, you know, I suspect he also understands that can swing in different ways. And he wants this to be her election to win. And, of course, Senator Sanders is playing an important role in this as is Governor O'Malley.

So at this juncture, I think it's premature to expect that. That doesn't mean as you move through the primaries towards a greater certainty about who the candidate is going to be you won't see him supporting her.

HARLOW: Let's play, quickly, Hillary Clinton's new ad which directly targets Republican candidates who want to dismantle pretty much all of this president's policies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFED MALE: Think about it.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would bomb the [bleep] out of them.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: One of these Republicans -

UNIDENTIFED MALE: Carpet bomb them into oblivion.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: - could actually be president.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: Sit down and shut up.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: Enacting their agenda -

UNIDENTIFED MALE: I think we should repeal Obamacare.

TRUMP: Our wages are too high.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: Defund planned parenthood.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: Backward, even dangerous.

So ask yourself, who's the one candidate who can stop them? Hillary Clinton. Tested and tough. To stop them, stand with her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: What do you make of the strategy there, positioning herself as the best person to protect this president's legacy even when his approval numbers aren't where any president would want them?

BAER: Well, but, again, let's wait and hear what he's going to say on Tuesday night. Remember the impact that his voice has. To try to help the American people remember the progress that has been made. Right? I mean, this is all the question of half full versus half empty. If you believe where we are as a country is glass half full at this point and you want to continue to move forward, certainly to make some adjustments as necessary because policy always requires that, then that's where Hillary Clinton wants to be. You know, this is not a time to turn backwards. This is a time to keep moving forward.

HARLOW: Don Baer, nice to have you on.

BAER: Thank you.

HARLOW: I bet you're glad you don't have to write the speech. No pressure this week for you. You don't have to write the speech for Tuesday night.

BAER: Very, very relaxed tonight. Thank you.

HARLOW: Thank you very much. Nice to have you on.

You can see the state of the union, our special coverage begins here on CNN with the best political team in television Tuesday night at 7:00 p.m. Eastern.

Washington's big night is Tuesday. Guess what's going on tonight? A lot of style on that red carpet. It is Hollywood's night. The Golden Globes.

CNN is live on the red carpet, next.

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19:40:05

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HARLOW: It is the 73rd Annual Golden Globes and my colleague Isha Sesay has a far more glamorous job than I do this evening. Live on the red carpet with Queen Latifah. Isha.

ISHA SESAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Poppy. Live with Queen Latifah who is nominated tonight for playing the role of Betty in a wonderful TV movie. I got to ask you how you feel.

QUEEN LATIFAH, ACTRESS: I feel amazing. This is great, look at this. You know, your peers who kicked butt this year. I'm one of them. It's great.

SESAY: I saw you on "Ellen," you made the point that you won before but you weren't able to have your moment. Tonight could be your moment.

QUEEN LATIFAH: I know. I should write a speech or something just in case it is my moment, but right now I'm just enjoying it and I'm prepared. I got some good comfortable Jimmy Choos on. I'm ready to hit the stage.

SESAY: Who are you wearing? You look stunning.

QUEEN LATIFAH: (INAUDIBLE) Mishka.

SESAY: Please have a wonderful night. I know they're rushing you back in.

QUEEN LATIFAH: Thank you. Keep doing what you to. Appreciate you.

SESAY: Thank you, thank you. We managed to grab her, Poppy. Queen Latifah on her way in. She's nominated. She looks splendid. There's a little bit of a kind of tense atmosphere right now on the carpet. It's less than 15 minutes to showtime, Poppy and they're rushing the stars in. Poppy.

HARLOW: And another star is the host tonight, Ricky Gervais, we all remember his last hosting. What can we expect from him tonight?

SESAY: I think we can safely say outrage. He will be offended. I think that's a pretty safe bet. He's already said, Poppy, that he's basically said I'm sorry, he's already said I'm sorry for everything that comes out of my mouth. He also said he's going to start drinking pretty early, so, yes, there could be some bruised egos a couple hours from now.

HARLOW: Oh, I can't wait to see it. Isha, you look stunning. Have a great time.

SESAY: Thank you.

HARLOW: I wish was there with you. Isha Sesay, live on the red carpet of the 73rd Annual Golden Globes.

We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

[19:45:15]

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HARLOW: Nearly five months after reporter Alison Parker was shot and killed on live television her boyfriend still keeps Parker's last affectionate note posted inside the home they shared in Roanoake, Virginia.

The note reads simply, I love you. Parker was dating anchor Chris Hurst. They both worked at the same local station in WDBJ 7 in Roanoke. Chris keeps her memory close. He still wears ties on the air that Alison picked out. He hasn't removed her dresses from the closet that they shared.

Hurst told the "Washington Post" recently "I'm not ashamed of what I've been going through and what I've been feeling. If I start to lose my memory of her, that is what I'm most fearful of." Chris Hurst joins me now. Thank you for being here, Chris.

CHRIS HURST: Sure, thank you, Poppy.

HARLOW: You were there on Thursday night at President Obama's town hall on CNN. What did you make of what he said?

HURST: Well, I was glad that he was engaging with people of all sides of this issue, and I think that it's very important for all sides to be represented when we have a discourse about this issue. I think that you have to look at the material of what he said and understand that it certainly doesn't seem like it is a lot in terms of policy and language. But to me, it's the occasion, you know, considering we have a broadcasting background, you have a town hall with the president on this issue, did any of us in the media think that would happen a year ago?

[19:50:00]

HARLOW: Right. It's an interesting point. You wrote recently about how the news covers the gun debate, right? You wrote it is time for American newsrooms to change how they cover gun violence saying "our conversation has been reduced to reporting each mass shooting as urgent breaking news and then most of the time shrugging our shoulders until the next one. Meaningful journalism on gun violence shouldn't just look at the mass

shootings or other high profile incidents, but also acknowledge and report on the populations most at risk of being killed by a gun. Young black men in homicides and white men from suicides. Guns are also killing those in the later end of the millennial generation, in fact, guns are how millennials are most commonly dying.

How has your loss of Alison shaped you as a journalist and especially how you cover this?

HURST: Well, for me, I don't really cover this other than, you know, now I have to continue to read these stories to my audience of shootings that happened in Roanoke, and shootings that happen all across the country and, of course, it pains me every single time I have to relay details of what happens.

I think it has changed basically my perspective on how I kind of view how these issues get covered nationally which then trickles down to the local level and to me, this issue needs to be covered so substantively at a local level because it is the unreported incidents that really would have the most chance to be affected by any possible legislation or any possible conversation about that.

And as you read what I said in my op-ed, it is young men and women of color and it is older white men who kill themselves, and, you know, we have a pretty standard news policy at our station not to cover suicide, not to cover murder/suicide. But maybe there is a way to cover these issues with a little bit more tact and care so we can try to prevent these issues from occurring.

HARLOW: You recently finished a series called "The Long Good-bye." It was about hospice care that Alison was working on before. You finished it. I mean, I don't think any of us can imagine what that is like, but it was so important to her to have it on the air. You finished it. Tell me what that was like for you.

HURST: There was some amount of catharsis to it but it was incredibly difficult. She - the day before she died she came home, we were having lunch and she told me about how she secured the series with a man and his wife with Alzheimer's, she was going to follow him, following her as she progressed in her stages of Alzheimer's but was receiving some wonderful hospital care. She intuitively knew that a lot of times hospice doesn't get discussed until it's too late to provide the kind of comfort giving care that's intended. And so she wanted people to break down their barriers of having these different difficult conversations. So it was a tremendous honor to me to be able to finish that in her honor. And the morning anchor (INAUDIBLE) also did a series of stories as well because Kimberly was a mentor to Alison, big sister to Alison and loved her very, very much.

HARLOW: If Alison could see what you're doing now, what the Parkers, her parents, Andy and Barbara who we had on last night, are doing, maybe she can, right?

HURST: Right.

HARLOW: What do you think she would say?

HURST: Keep paddling. That's what we've been saying from the beginning. She was a kayaker. She loved to be out on the water. She was fearless and she was tenacious. No matter if it was a class-five rapid, she'd go into it and hit it hard. You know, there have been times when I have wanted to just stay in bed, actually the past two days I've been waking up earlier and earlier and there's been that tight burning anxiety that I've had, just trying to realize this is the life, this the course that I've now been on, but when you have to decide what your plan "b" is going to be, we were going to be happily ever after and it didn't end that way. That you just need to keep paddling. Her parents have done that. I've tried to it, too. I think she'd be proud.

HARLOW: What about action - I mean, look, her dad has now made it and Barbara, her mom, their life's mission to change gun policy in this country. For you, you're a journalist, right? And your job is as a journalist, you can't do what they are doing. Do you ever think about sort of what your work on that front should be or what you want it to be?

HURST: I do definitely talk with many people who are part of the survivor network that now I'm a part of. You know, this club that nobody wants to join.

HARLOW: Right.

HURST: And I feel tremendous empathy with them. I think that their stories need to be told because they illuminate some of the issues, some of the aspects of this issue that don't often get talked about. Right now I'm OK with just doing the things that Alison and I had planned to do together.

So you mentioned "The Long Good-bye" series. I also rehearsed to dance in "The Nutcracker." She was a phenomenal dancer. Wanted us to dance in the local ballet production of "The Nutcracker." So I invested myself into that. Now I'm trying to be gentle with myself. The counselors I speak to for my own well-being, people in hospice care who deal with death on a daily basis they say be gentle with yourself and to dose your grief. That's what I'm trying to do.

[19:55:10] HARLOW: No question. Take good care. Chris, thank you very much.

HURST: Thank you.

HARLOW: We'll be right back.

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HARLOW: Ahead of the president's final state of the union address on Tuesday night, the number. Tonight's number is 19. That is President Obama's approval rating in terms of how much it has fallen. It has fallen 19 percent since he first addressed the joint session of Congress back in January 2009. That's according to Gallup.

For comparison, former President George W. Bush saw a decline in his approval rating of 23 percent between his first and last state of the union. Former president Bill Clinton's approval ratings increased six percent from the first to the last address.

CNN has full coverage of the president's state of the union. It is this Tuesday evening beginning at 7:00 p.m. Eastern Time.

Ahead on the eve of the president's final state of the union address, our Gloria Borger sits down for an exclusive one-on-one interview with Vice President Joe Biden. Hear their wide-ranging conversation on "Anderson Cooper 360" tomorrow night at 9:00 p.m. Eastern only right here on CNN.

I'm Poppy Harlow in New York. Thank you so much for joining me this weekend. Coming up, a "Parts Unknown" marathon. It starts with Miami right now. Then Hawaii at 9:00 p.m. Eastern. At 10:00, Anthony Bourdain visits Cuba. Staying in the Caribbean for Jamaica at 11:00. Then on to Mississippi at midnight.

Thank you, again, for being with me. Have a great week. I'll see you back here next weekend.