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Presidential Race; Ted Cruz's Birth Place; Democratic Race Neck and Neck; Video of El Chapo Raid; El Chapo Interview. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired January 11, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00] BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Critical acclaim. The album topping charts in the U.K. and the U.S.

DAVID BOWIE, MUSICIAN (singing): Something happened on the day he died.

STELTER: Highlighting Bowie's unparalleled ability to continue to push the envelope even after four decades in the industry.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Certainly an amazing, an amazing performer.

That's it for me. Thanks for watching. The news continues next on CNN.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Pamela Brown, in for Brooke Baldwin. Great to have you with us on this Monday.

And we begin with politics. New polls show just how tight the Republican race for the White House is getting in Iowa and how clear cut the leader board is in New Hampshire. Those are the two states with the first primary contests in the nation and they're now less than a month away.

Moments ago, Quinnipiac University released its poll of likely Iowa caucus goers and Donald Trump leads Ted Cruz 31-29 percent, well within the margin of error, with the rest of the field far behind. Also today, Monmouth University came out with the result for New Hampshire and now the third poll in a row that shows Donald Trump with at least a third of the GOP vote in New Hampshire, while the real race is for a distant second place among Ted Cruz, John Kasich and Marco Rubio.

And let me go now to CNN political director David Chalian for more on this.

David, it's interesting for Iowa. Quinnipiac found that while Trump is slightly ahead, his negative rating is much stronger with 26 percent saying that they would definitively not support Trump, but for Cruz that number was just 7 percent. What do you make of that?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, I just think that Donald Trump has always had a bit of a ceiling, but it hasn't mattered because his support is - has been large enough to be able to compensate for the fact that perhaps a quarter of the party may never go with him. He doesn't need that quarter of the party necessarily, Pam.

Here - here's -- let's look at the reality of what you've got here between these two polls that you just showed there. You have Donald Trump, the dominant national frontrunner, who is completely dominating in New Hampshire, and it was locked in a battle with Ted Cruz for Iowa. And that dynamic seeing Trump that strong in the lead off state, in the first primary state in New Hampshire and nationally, explains everything you need to know about what we're hearing on the campaign trail. This is why, over the weekend and continuing again today, Donald Trump is going after Ted Cruz deliberately and hard on a whole host of issues. Because if he can get a clean kill in Iowa and then New Hampshire, Donald Trump is on his way to becoming the Republican nominee for president.

BROWN: Right, you've seen him in just the past few days really ramping up his rhetoric against Cruz, especially with that birther issue. But just if you would, just give me a little history here to put these polls into perspective, David. How accurate are polls like this heading into the Iowa caucuses, especially in this case in which half haven't made up their minds?

CHALIAN: Well, it's important to remember, polls are not supposed to be predicted. So when we say how accurate is a poll, against what? It is - it is a snapshot in time. So here we are looking at where the support is now three weeks out from the caucuses. I tend to like to look at sort of the totality of the polling that's coming out. Yesterday there was a poll showing Cruz four points ahead. Today, Donald Trump is two points ahead. Put all of that together in the stew, if you will, and you see that you have a very tight race between Donald Trump and Ted Cruz in Iowa. That's the snapshot today. That doesn't mean that's where we'll be three weeks from now on the night of the caucuses, but that's where we are for the home stretch.

BROWN: That's right, because we have more debates to go. A lot could happen between now and then. Stay with us, David, because Trump, as we know, is stumping in New Hampshire today. Today held a rally and addressed supports along with some detractors. And he took time to slam the state's leading newspaper, "The Union Leader." There were also cracked at Senator Ted Cruz's birthplace, as we just discussed. And then, in classic Trump form, he tossed out a protester.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I felt very guilty. So I'm spending money out of guilt. All this - you see Bush, $69 million, Trump, like, nothing. He spent so much money advertising. Trump, Trump, Trump. At least he uses good pictures of me. Man, I was really handsome. Look at those pictures.

I had a hamburger. It was excellent.

Not supposed to use hair spray on my hair because it affects the ozone.

Chris Christie did not make the main stage and he didn't make it because he didn't make it, right, you know?

Clinton, Hillary Clinton, please, FBI, please, go after Hillary. I want to run against Bernie.

Ted Cruz has a problem because the question is, is he a natural born citizen? And I said, I don't know. I mean nobody knows.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're boring. Tell some jokes.

TRUMP: Get him out of here. Get out of here. Go ahead. He says he loves me. This guy. Didn't you give me the Bible? Did you give me the Bible?

[14:05:05] That cover for only $3,500. Does anybody want the back cover of a newspaper that lost all credibility? Huh?

"Time" magazine did a cover story on me this week. It's one of the best stories I've ever read about myself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: There you see tackling a wide swath of topics there. And also weighing in on this birther debate, GOP presidential contender Senator Rand Paul. CNN chief political correspondent Dana Bash is in New Hampshire for more.

Hey, Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, Pamela.

And no question that, you know, people like Rand Paul are trying to jump on the bandwagon for the same reason Donald Trump is bringing up this question about whether Ted Cruz is eligible to be president in the first place. It's because Ted Cruz is doing well. He says that. I was out with him in Iowa last week and he said, you know, this is what happens when you do well, people hit you. And he's right.

However, when you have somebody like Donald Trump who has the megaphone he has, who has the Twitter followers he has, I think 5.5 million, you've got to take pause. And Ted Cruz is continuing to insist - there's no there there. That he has a legal background. He is convinced that his - because his mother was born in the U.S., it is a nonissue. That is not stopping Donald Trump from trying to sow seeds of doubt inside the Republican electorate both here in New Hampshire and especially in Iowa because, as you said, that is a place where Donald Trump really needs to beat Ted Cruz.

Ted Cruz has been doing quite well there. Again, we were with him last week. He seems to have a pretty stellar ground operation. And so if Donald Trump ends up beating Ted Cruz there and he's doing so well here in New Hampshire, it's going to be hard to stop him and that's why he's stepping up his attacks on Ted Cruz, even though, Pam, he doesn't call them attacks. He just says he's trying to help out a friend and get all these legal issues out of the way.

BROWN: Yes, it's really interesting the way he sort of couches it. But what do you make of the fact that Rand Paul is jumping into this? If you look at the latest poll, I think he's at 2 percent. Is he just trying to sort of stay relevant here? What do you think?

BASH: Yes, I think that's exactly right. Look, Rand Paul and Ted Cruz actually have joined in a lot of fights together. I watched them do it on the Senate floor, whether it was railing against Obamacare or in a whole host of issues. They each sort of had epic filibusters and the other helped - each helped the other out during that time over the past couple of years. But this is presidential politics and Rand Paul isn't doing as well. I mean his brand of Republicanism, libertarian, kind of, you know, stay out of it, particularly on national security, it just - it didn't end up being the right time for him with ISIS on the rise and so forth. So, yes, he is trying to kind of stay in the mix here and keep on Ted Cruz, although I think it is really Donald Trump that is going to make a difference on this issue, if he does at all.

BROWN: That's right. Dana Bash, thank you so much.

And the race isn't just tightening for the Republicans. The NBC/"Wall Street Journal"/Maris poll finds Hillary Clinton's lead against Senator Bernie Sanders is within the margin of error. And in New Hampshire, Sanders is beating Clinton. That too is within the margin of error. Donald Trump, the Republican frontrunner, told his supporters that he's taking note of Sanders' move on Clinton.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would love, please, FBI, please, go after Hillary. I want to run against Bernie. Oh, that's a dream come true.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And with me now to discuss, senior political correspondent Brianna Keilar, who is in Iowa, and David Chalian, back with us.

Brianna, I want to start with you, though, because these polls show there that Hillary could face losses in both Iowa and New Hampshire. Is her camp worried about that? Are they ready for this?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I think this is a little close for comfort. I do also think they are ready and doing everything they can at this point. The Clinton campaign having confidence in their ground game. And really, Pamela, that this isn't a repeat of 2008 where she was caught flat footed and her campaign really didn't do all that they should have been doing to try to work towards a victory in Iowa. I think they feel that they are doing that at this point.

But when you look at the polls coming out of New Hampshire, coming out of Iowa, it appears that you're seeing the edges that both Hillary Clinton, what she had in Iowa and what Bernie Sanders had in New Hampshire, that that may be tightening a bit. To talk to Bernie Sanders, I interviewed him just a short time ago, he sort of almost gleefully said, you know, they began believing that her victory was inevitable. I don't think they believe that now, do they? So he's very happy about where things are in Iowa and Hillary Clinton also here in this state today fighting tooth and nail for all of the support certainly that she can get.

I think what's interesting though is you'll hear from the Clinton campaign, they'll say, look, we said that this primary was going to be competitive. I do think that - they certainly said that. But I also think that it has become more competitive, the Iowa caucuses, and the New Hampshire primary, than they expected that it would be. So it makes for a very interesting final few weeks here before these early contests.

[14:10:17] BROWN: Like you said, perhaps a little too close for comfort.

David, the NBC poll did these hypothetical matchups and it showed how Hillary would fair against some of the Republican contenders. And she only beats Trump, but losing to Cruz and Rubio in Iowa. But Sanders, on the other hand, he beats Cruz and Trump and ties Rubio in Iowa. Does that surprise you?

CHALIAN: So here's what's instructive about these numbers, Pam. It's not that that's where the race will be in those two general election battleground states. They're not just the first states in the nomination process. Both Iowa and New Hampshire are general election battleground states. But looking this far out to the general election, probably not very instructive.

But where it does matter is in Hillary Clinton's closing argument right now. One of the things that she is telling Democratic voters is that this eligibility matter, this ability to choose the Democrat that is going to defeat the Republican is so important in their vote. Well, if that's the case, these numbers cut against one of her closing arguments. And that's a tricky situation for her as she's trying to make this case that she's the one in her advertising, her message on the stump, she's the one that can take it to Republicans. These numbers cut against that and give Bernie Sanders a shot in the arm.

BROWN: Interesting perspective there. David, Brianna, thank you so much for that.

KEILAR: Sure.

BROWN: And up next right here in the NEWSROOM, stunning new video of the raid that captured one of the world's most wanted men. Inside El Chapo's hideout and what he saw moments before his capture.

Plus, does Sean Penn face legal trouble for his secret meeting with El Chapo? I'll speak live with someone who calls it naive and dangerous.

Plus, a manhunt underway for a suspect in the alleged gang rape on a playground. Chilling, new details about the victim and her father. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [14:16:09] BROWN: A battering ram breaks the silence, gunfire gives way to grenades, a commando screams. And when the smoke clears, the world's most wanted drug lord is captured alive. Take a look. You're looking at video right here that can only be described as extraordinary. The final, daring moments of a raid between the Mexican marines and the kingpin's loyal henchmen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Take it easy. Take it easy.

More grenades, more grenades.

Grenades, let them loose, fast.

We have an injury, we have an injury. Watch out, watch out, watch out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Just incredible to see that. This video first aired on a Mexican television network Televisa. And at the end of this daring 4:00 a.m. raid in El Chapo's home state of Sinaloa, five of his men are dead. But how did authorities find him months after he tunneled out of a prison without a trace? Some say this man on the left right here may have been his undoing. Actor Sean Penn. In a bizarre twist, it turns out he interviewed the fugitive back in October for an article in "Rolling Stone" magazine.

Joining me now to discuss all of this, CNN's Nick Valencia, right outside the prison where El Chapo is being held.

So, Nick, talk us through how this raid went down.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pamela, according to the Mexico attorney general's office, it was a multilayered agency effort with La Morina (ph), an extension of the Mexican navy, taking the lead on this. And as you mentioned, that video, first obtained by a Mexican network Televisa, it is stunning and dramatic. A 14-minute clip that shows the event that led to the downfall of the world's most notorious drug trafficker Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman.

It doesn't take long for the video to get dramatic. About a minute in you see one of the soldiers for Mexico say that he's injured, he's hurt. You see some heavy gunfire, grenades. Eventually, at the end of it, five (INAUDIBLE), five assassins working for El Chapo Guzman would die. And El Chapo, of course, would be taken into custody.

Meanwhile, also generating much conversation here is that interview you were talking about between Hollywood actor Sean Penn and El Chapo. A rare and exclusive interview. Perhaps the first interview that El Chapo has ever given. Reportedly coordinated by a famous Mexican actress here named Kate del Castillo. It was back in 2012 that del Castillo established a relationship with El Chapo after issuing a series of tweets critical of the Mexican government, as well as praising - seemingly praising El Chapo's leadership in the country, saying that she trusted him more than her own president. And that two- minute clip from the interview in this undisclosed part of Mexico, we learned a little bit more about El Chapo, his role in the world of drug trafficking, and also get a sense of his bravado.

BROWN: And of course the big -

JOAQUIN EL CHAPO GUZMAN (through translator): Well, it's a reality that drugs destroy. Unfortunately, as I said, where I grew up there was no other way and there still isn't. Look, all I do is defend myself. Nothing more. Bud do I start looking for trouble? Never.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: It's believed to be one of the first times we've ever heard El Chapo in his own words.

Meanwhile, let's talk about the extradition here. I just got off the phone a couple of hours ago with a senior Mexican law enforcement official who tells me that they believe El Chapo could be in a U.S. court as early as this summer. Of course, that all depends on just how many injunctions are filed by the defense attorney of El Chapo. It could take up to a year. And they expect that El Chapo's defense attorney will fight this till the last minute.

[14:20:03] Pamela.

BROWN: I know DOJ working on the formal extradition request right now.

Nick, thank you so much. We appreciate that.

And joining me now to talk about all of this, Raul Reyes, attorney, immigration analyst and "USA Today" contributor, as well as Brian Stelter, CNN senior media correspondent and host of "Reliable Sources."

Thank you both for coming on.

A lot to talk about here. I can - a lot of people, Brian, surprised by this article released Saturday night in "Rolling Stone" magazine where Sean Penn actually interviewed El Chapo back in October. Tell us about that. What was said? You actually interviewed the founder and publisher of the magazine.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I was just able to get off the phone with Jann Wenner, the publisher of "Rolling Stone." He's the one that got this incredible call from Sean Penn in the fall saying, I think I have a meeting I have arranged with El Chapo. I think I can go down to Mexico for this meeting. So Jann Wenner said, yes, please, go forth, please go ahead. They ultimately published this story over the weekend.

And I'll tell you what's amazing, Pamela, we now know that El Chapo is back behind bars. But this story was going to come out on Friday when he hadn't been captured yet. Had not be recaptured yet. So this story was going to come out while this man was still a fugitive. You can imagine the uproar there would have been about trying to - using the article to try to find El Chapo's whereabouts. As it turns out, he's back behind bars. But the story, as Nick was

saying, is really valuable because you know hear from this drug lord, this drug kingpin, in his own words. Jann Wenner telling me he has no regrets about the story. In fact he believes any other publisher would have done what he did.

BROWN: Interesting.

And, Raul, on the other hand, you say this interview was naive and dangerous. Explain why you think that.

RAUL REYES, ATTORNEY: Sure. I think it was naive for the magazine to send him on this type of assignment, as well as for Sean Penn to go because you have to remember, this is a cartel that functions in 50 countries. And one of the hallmarks of this cartel is that it does not just target people with whom it - it, you know, it has a beef or with whom it feels disrespected by. It also targets their families. It puts - Sean Penn has put himself at extraordinary risk. And as - and as well as his family and associates.

Now to put this in context, in Mexico over the last say seven years, we're - we have maybe 165,000 homicides. The majority of which are linked to these - to the drug cartels. And from a legal standpoint, although there's nothing in the interview that seems to suggest that Sean Penn necessarily broke any laws, at one point in the interview he does mention that El Chapo, Mr. Guzman, told him that a list of U.S. corporations that accept illegal funds from his cartel, but that Sean Penn declined to name these corporations. I think that any federal prosecutor, who wanted to make a name for himself, could certainly launch a challenge and try to subpoena Sean Penn to tell him, well, who - who are these major foreign corporations. And in this instance, although he's functioning as a journalist, the First Amendment protections do not necessarily apply because generally it was a test for whether someone is a journalist is whether it is their full-time occupation, whether they make their living as a journalist, in which case although Sean Penn has written before for "The Nation" and many other respected publications, I don't think he would be able to establish the case that he is a working journalist.

BROWN: You raise a really interesting point, Raul.

So, Brian, he says, you know, look, Sean Penn is an activist. He's an actor. Is this journalism?

STELTER: It's, in some ways, an act of journalism because getting someone on the record, it's providing new, valuable information, new quotes, new context. In some ways "Rolling Stones" performed a public service here by getting this drug lord on the record. The flip side of that is, it happened in a highly unusual way and something called story approval happened here. You almost never hear of this. El Chapo was given the article ahead of time, allowed to read it and request changes.

Well, "Rolling Stone's" publisher say no changes were actually requested, so it didn't matter. But I've got to tell you, in many newsrooms, I would say most newsrooms, that would have not have been allowed. So that was a very unusual situation. But for what it's worth, the magazine says they're not expecting any legal challenges here. It will be interesting to see if Sean Penn personally though faces some legal challenges.

BROWN: Well -

REYES: It's also interesting I think when you consider the reaction in Mexico because I think in this - in this story we look at this story as just the latest maybe grandstanding or showboating by Sean Penn. Sort of a curiosity tied into the notoriety of El Chapo. In Mexico, where so many people have experienced the loss, they have witnessed - they have firsthand witness to the violence that racks their country as a result of this cartel, there has been much more negative reaction. The Mexican government has already said they would pursue an investigation.

Kate del Castillo, who is a very popular actress in Mexico, she has faced enormous pushback from the Mexican press. One of the leading newspapers in Mexico City accused her of functioning as a type of PR representative for El Chapo. So people there are very unhappy about it.

And one important thing to consider, the Mexican government has been humiliated by the escape of El Chapo and now for this to happen again, I would not be at all surprised if the Mexican legal system - Mexican attorney general moved ahead with some type of charges against Kate del Castillo, which could jeopardize her upcoming Netflix series, which is slated to shoot in Mexico in six months, as well against Sean Penn. And, remember, the Mexican justice system, very different from ours. No presumption of innocence. Most charges result in a conviction. So what - what happens ahead remains to be seen.

[14:25:15] BROWN: What could the charges be, Raul, against them?

REYES: The charges against them under - now, this is under the Mexican legal system. It could be that -

BROWN: Right, because in the U.S. people I've spoken to say it would be unlikely they would - Sean Penn could face charges. But, go ahead.

REYES: It would be unlikely in this country. In Mexico - under the Mexican justice system, which is radically different from ours - and I want to preface this by saying I am of Mexican heritage. This is not a slam for Mexico. Judges have great discretion. The ego and the self- interest of various prosecutors, they have a great amount of personal involvement of cases. Cases in Mexico, for instance, whether you're talking domestic disputes or high level cases such as this one, which could bring charges of harboring a fugitive, or cooperating a fugitive, they generally take place entirely behind closed doors. You do not know anything about the trial until it has concluded when you receive the verdict. So the Mexican government has wide discretion under their legal system to move ahead with charges against Sean Penn.

BROWN: All right, Raul Reyes, Brian Stelter, very interesting discussion there. I could go on and on. Thank you so much.

REYES: Thank you.

STELTER: Thank you.

BROWN: And up next right here in the NEWSROOM, new details and fresh questions emerging after an 18-year-old girl was allegedly raped by five men in a Brooklyn park. Police releasing video of the suspected attackers taken shortly before the incident. My next guest, a city councilwoman, says morale in the city has hit an all-time low.

And breaking news, an unusual airstrike in the fight against ISIS. The U.S. dropping bombs, aiming for huge amounts of ISIS controlled cash. We'll take you live to the Pentagon, up next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)