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Presidential Race Heats Up; David Bowie Dies; Affluenza Mom in Court. Aired 3-3:30p ET
Aired January 11, 2016 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:01]
PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you so much for that.
Top of the hour now on this Monday. I'm Pamela Brown.
And the world's most wanted drug lord now awaiting extradition to the U.S. after he was captured in a hail of gunfire, a battering ram breaking the silence, grenades, then screams from a commando who had been hit, the final daring moments of a raid between the Mexican marines and the kingpin's loyal henchmen caught on tape, a lot going on there.
This video first aired on the Mexican television network Televisa. And by the end of this daring 4:00 a.m. raid in El Chapo's home state of Sinaloa, five of El Chapo's men are dead. Incredibly, he's been returned to the very same prison he tunnelled out of.
Joining me now to discuss, Brandon Webb, former Navy SEAL and founder of veteran-run news site SOFREP.com. He's also the author of the bestselling book "Among Heroes."
Brandon, thanks for being on with us.
I think a lot of us are watching this and wondering, what's going on here? It's seemingly chaotic in that video. Does it surprise you El Chapo was taken alive and only one Mexican marine was hurt?
BRANDON WEBB, FORMER U.S. NAVY SEAL: Well, actually we broke a story on SOFREP this morning of how JSOC Delta Force and the U.S. Marshals were actually advising on this operation.
And the operation the Mexican government called the Black Swan was actually targeting El Chapo's head assassin. And so El Chapo just seems like a stroke of luck that they actually found him. And he was -- when they raided the compound, he was actually trying to flee in a stolen vehicle, and the federal agents apprehended him.
But it is a little bit surprising that he was taken alive, but I think, just by watching that video, you can get an idea of how dynamic that operation -- operations like these can be.
BROWN: Yes. There's a lot of yelling. You hear that, people seemingly giving up their positions. Is it unusual that this raid wasn't more, I guess, stealthy? Is this an unusual tactic? WEBB: No. I think, just from watching the video, that these guys were going slowly and methodically through that house. And it's hard to tell if they are using stun grenades or they're using actually grenades themselves, but it's just these types of operations are very dynamic and it doesn't always happen as you see it in the movies.
BROWN: And you can do so much preparing, but, unfortunately, sometimes, things change.
Hang on for a second, Brandon Webb, because we want to go to Fort Worth, Texas. That's where the affluenza mom just stepped into court. Let's take a listen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we're here on an application for writ of habeas corpus bond reduction. Is the state ready?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The state is ready, Your Honor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the defense?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, Your Honor, we're ready.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. For the record, let me have the names of the lawyers for the state.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (OFF-MIKE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (OFF-MIKE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And for the defense.
STEPHANIE PATTEN, ATTORNEY FOR TONYA COUCH: Stephanie Patten.
STEVE GORDON, ATTORNEY FOR TONYA COUCH: Your Honor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. And Ms. Couch is here also.
All right, who is going to open for the state?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will, Your Honor. We will waive opening.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very well.
Mr. Gordon and Ms. Patten.
PATTEN: Thank you, Your Honor.
As you know, I have filed an application for writ of habeas corpus (OFF-MIKE). We raised two issues on the application for writ of habeas corpus. One is the issue of whether there is probable cause to support the arrest warrant and whether there were false statements made in the arrest warrant affidavit that was the basis for the arrest warrant issued in this case.
We have conferred with the state and we will -- we are not waiving that issue. However, we will just be addressing the second issue in the application for writ of habeas corpus, and that is the amount of the bond that is set in this case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very well.
PATTEN: And, at this time, we call -- we would ask that our witnesses that we have subpoenaed (OFF-MIKE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very well. Where are your witnesses?
PATTEN: We have Sheriff Dee Anderson. We have (OFF-MIKE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on right here, sir.
PATTEN: (OFF-MIKE)
[15:05:05]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on up.
Is this it?
PATTEN: No. There is a (OFF-MIKE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
Come on up, ma'am.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Raise your right hand. I swear you in. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you give today in this case on trial will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
PATTEN: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Sheriff Anderson, give my court reporter your full name, please.
And, sir, you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stephen James McWilliams.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.
All right, who is your first witness?
PATTEN: Stephen McWilliams.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.
PATTEN: And, at this time (OFF-MIKE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, the rule is invoked, so you are going to have to remain outside until you're called in to testify.
Sheriff? Where is the sheriff? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wait, ma'am. I don't want you to leave yet either.
PATTEN: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Ms. Patten invoked the rules, so, Sheriff, I want both of you guys to stay outside and don't discuss the case with anybody, other than the lawyers or the investigators, all right, until you're called.
BROWN: I'm going to bring in Paul Callan right now, because, clearly, there's a lot of activity going on in that courtroom in Fort Worth, where Tonya Couch, the mother of the so-called affluenza teen, is there on a hearing about bond.
So, Paul, break down what's going on for us.
PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, at a bond hearing, the primary focus of the court is whether the defendant is likely to flee.
So, I'm sure that all of these witnesses are going to have a bearing on that. Has she expressed a desire to flee the jurisdiction? That's number one.
Number two is how strong is the case against her. Defense attorneys have said it looks bad for her when you read about it in the press, but she really didn't commit a crime under Texas law. I suspect that they are saying, hey, she didn't realize he wasn't allowed to leave the jurisdiction. They were just going on vacation to Mexico and she was going to come back with him.
So, the prosecution, on the other hand, says that she took $30,000 out of a bank shortly before going to Mexico. So that kind of would contradict that thought process.
And it's all about in the end, though, whether she can be trusted to return to the court. The second thing, of course, is the judge has mentioned in previous statements to the defense that maybe she'd have to wear a -- some kind of a bracelet if he does lower the bail. I'm sure that's going to be discussed by witnesses as well.
BROWN: And the bond, $1 million. Is it likely, Paul, the judge will reduce that bond?
CALLAN: Well, when I hear a judge talking about you might have to wear a bracelet if the bond is reduced, it sounds to me like he would.
He's inclined to reduce it. That is very high bail. You usually see bail like that in murder cases. And this is not a murder case for her. This is just a -- this is a case of helping her son flee the jurisdiction.
So I would expect that it wouldn't surprise me if the bail was lowered and maybe she's put on some kind of a house arrest situation. But we will have to see what the judge does.
BROWN: OK. Let's listen in. Thanks, Paul.
STEPHANIE PATTEN, ATTORNEY FOR TONYA COUCH: How do you know her?
STEPHEN MCWILLIAMS, SON OF TONYA COUCH: She's my mother.
PATTEN: And how old are you?
MCWILLIAMS: Twenty-nine.
PATTEN: Where do you -- what county do you live in?
MCWILLIAMS: Tarrant County.
PATTEN: Is that in Burleson?
MCWILLIAMS: It's in Forth Worth.
PATTEN: Forth Worth, Tarrant County.
Who do you live with?
MCWILLIAMS: My wife and two kids.
PATTEN: And your wife is how old?
MCWILLIAMS: Twenty-eight.
PATTEN: Now, we're here today asking for a -- one of the things that we're asking, for your mom's bond to be reduced.
MCWILLIAMS: Yes.
PATTEN: Do you understand that?
MCWILLIAMS: Yes, ma'am.
PATTEN: Are you aware of what her bond is currently set at?
MCWILLIAMS: Yes.
PATTEN: And what is that?
MCWILLIAMS: One million.
PATTEN: One million dollars?
MCWILLIAMS: Yes.
PATTEN: Is there any way that your mom is able to post a $1 million bond?
MCWILLIAMS: No.
PATTEN: Are you aware of any prior convictions that your mother has?
MCWILLIAMS: No. PATTEN: And is it your plan if her bond was lowered and she was able
to post the bond that she would go and live with you?
MCWILLIAMS: Yes.
PATTEN: And that would be in Tarrant County?
MCWILLIAMS: Uh-uh. Yes, ma'am.
PATTEN: The people that live in your home, are there anyone who lives in your home with criminal convictions?
MCWILLIAMS: No.
PATTEN: Are you aware of your mom's financial situation?
[15:10:00]
MCWILLIAMS: Yes, I am.
PATTEN: Now, is it your understanding -- is your mom married?
MCWILLIAMS: Married, but they are separated.
PATTEN: And she's married, but separated from whom?
MCWILLIAMS: Fred Couch.
PATTEN: Who is not your father?
MCWILLIAMS: No, he's my stepfather.
PATTEN: And they have been married and divorced in the past, is that correct?
MCWILLIAMS: Yes.
PATTEN: Does your mom own any real property?
MCWILLIAMS: No.
PATTEN: Does she have any personal property that you're aware of?
MCWILLIAMS: No.
PATTEN: Let's talk about bank accounts. Your mom did have a bank account. Is that correct?
MCWILLIAMS: Yes, ma'am.
PATTEN: And you were given a power of attorney to be in charge of that account, is that right?
MCWILLIAMS: Yes.
PATTEN: Yes? MCWILLIAMS: Mm-hmm.
PATTEN: And that was before, let's say, December of 2015, right?
MCWILLIAMS: Yes.
PATTEN: Have you recently tried to access her bank account?
MCWILLIAMS: Yes.
PATTEN: Are you able to make any withdrawals from that bank account?
MCWILLIAMS: No, I'm not.
PATTEN: What's your understanding of the status of her bank account?
MCWILLIAMS: There is a court order put on it and there's a large hold on the account.
PATTEN: OK. So when you try to access the account, you're not allowed to access it?
MCWILLIAMS: No.
PATTEN: And what are you told when you try to access it?
MCWILLIAMS: Nobody knows. They just said it's locked up and they don't know who did it or when they did it or why.
PATTEN: But it did say that there was a court order, is that correct?
MCWILLIAMS: Yes.
PATTEN: And so neither you or Tonya or anyone else is able to access her account, correct?
MCWILLIAMS: No.
PATTEN: Are you aware of any cash that she would have if she's not able to access her bank account?
MCWILLIAMS: No.
PATTEN: Is it your understanding that any property that she had in her possession when she went to California is no longer in her possession?
MCWILLIAMS: Yes, it's not longer -- they can't find it.
PATTEN: So are you aware of any cash she can access to post a bond?
MCWILLIAMS: No, there's no cash.
PATTEN: No property that she can sell to post a bond?
MCWILLIAMS: No, no property. PATTEN: So, I guess you're not going to be charging her rent if she
moves in with you. Are you?
MCWILLIAMS: No. No.
PATTEN: At the time that -- well, let me retract.
Back in December of 2015, are you aware of any court order ordering her to be in any court at that (AUDIO GAP) obligation to appear in court in December of 2015?
MCWILLIAMS: Not that I'm aware of.
PATTEN: Are you aware of her ever violating any promise to appear in court?
MCWILLIAMS: No.
PATTEN: Are you aware of her ever violating any bond condition?
MCWILLIAMS: No.
PATTEN: The vehicle that -- it is alleged that she owned a truck. Have you heard that allegation?
MCWILLIAMS: Yes.
PATTEN: Does that truck, did it belong to her or someone else?
MCWILLIAMS: No, it belongs to somebody else.
PATTEN: It did not belong to her?
MCWILLIAMS: No.
PATTEN: Does she own any vehicles?
MCWILLIAMS: No.
PATTEN: Does she have titles to any vehicles?
MCWILLIAMS: No.
PATTEN: Is it your understanding that the freeze that's been put on her account is by...
BROWN: Hearing for Tonya Couch, the mother of the affluenza teen.
We will be right back after this quick break. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:17:44]
BROWN: Let's go back to the bond hearing for Tonya Couch, the mother of the affluenza teen. This is her other son right here testifying, the half-brother of Ethan Couch. Let's take a listen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Probation, juvenile or adult probation, has as a part of it a lot of conditions that the judge ordered. Do you understand that?
MCWILLIAMS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And in that way, it's a lot like a bond. Bond conditions are a whole lot like probation conditions. Do you understand that?
MCWILLIAMS: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Things like, don't drink. Did your mother typically keep alcohol in her house when she was living here?
MCWILLIAMS: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Never?
MCWILLIAMS: Well, not since the -- he came out on probation, no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. You don't know anything about lots of drinking that went on in your mother's house?
PATTEN: I'm going to object, Your Honor. I thought that the purpose of this hearing was to determine whether the bond is too high. If we want to go into the probable cause of her arrest warrant affidavit, then we can do that. But I thought that we were just limited to the bond amount.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not offering this to have anything to do with the merits of the case against Tonya Couch, Your Honor. This has to do with her ability, as this witness has testified, to comply with bond conditions.
And it's the state's position that she not only was aware of -- well, I an approve she was aware of the probation conditions involving Ethan Couch, that she knowingly disregarded them, and that goes directly to her ability and her willingness to comply with any conditions you may set.
PATTEN: Your Honor, I would object that that's also irrelevant, because they are conditions that she wasn't under. And we're talking about her and obligations on her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think what he's talking is in the future if I give lower bond, so I overrule it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're aware that your younger brother Ethan drank while on juvenile probation, correct?
MCWILLIAMS: I wasn't aware. I saw the video. That's all I'm aware of.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. (OFF-MIKE) Your mother, does she work?
MCWILLIAMS: No.
[15:20:00]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Does she have any particular license that entitles her to do any type of work?
MCWILLIAMS: I know she used to. I don't know if she does anymore.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what type of work was that?
MCWILLIAMS: It was a nursing...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An LBN, correct?
MCWILLIAMS: I don't know. I just know it was in nursing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Now, she's going to live with you, correct?
MCWILLIAMS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, who else lives in your house?
MCWILLIAMS: My wife and two kids.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And how old are your children?
MCWILLIAMS: Eleven and 4.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have any contact with your mother prior to her arriving back in Tarrant County?
MCWILLIAMS: I talked to her in the L.A. County jail.
BROWN: I want to bring in Paul Callan now to give some legal analysis from this bond hearing for Tonya Couch, the mother of the affluenza teen.
And right there was her other son being questioned about whether or not she should be able to go out on bond.
Paul, how could she be trusted after she allegedly fled to Mexico with her son, who was out on probation?
CALLAN: Well, that's going to be a very tough question for this judge to answer, Pam.
You know, this witness is -- they are really trying to establish only that she doesn't have any money. But, obviously, from the cross- examination you heard by the district attorney's office, the prosecutor, he established that the father has a lot of money.
So, maybe the money could come from him to raise the bail if it's lowered. That's obviously the implication they want to leave with the judge. And on the issue of fleeing, I will tell you that there's an affidavit that's been filed with the court papers indicating that she withdrew $30,000 from a bank account and said to the father of the kid who is in Mexico, you're not going to see us anymore just before they fled to Mexico.
Now, I'm sure you're going to hear that later in the hearing from the prosecution, that she remains a flight risk and that substantial bail is still going to be required. So, I think you're going to see a lot of back and forth in this hearing between the prosecutors, who say she cannot be trusted.
And the final thing is we may hear something about her mental condition. They had been affidavits submitted indicating she suffers from mental illness. And, usually, when somebody suffers, they are not reliable in terms of coming back to court.
BROWN: In fact, she's supposed to go under a mental health examination.
Paul Callan, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
CALLAN: Thank you.
BROWN: And coming up right here in the NEWSROOM, two parties, two horse races, Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton deadlocked in Iowa and New Hampshire, Donald Trump and Ted Cruz deadlocked in Iowa. Hear who is joining the birther group against Cruz.
Plus, a tipster tells police the threat against cops is not over yet and the man who reportedly confessed to the shooting of an officer in Philly for ISIS is tied to a larger group.
And the death of a legend, David Bowie dead after a secret battle with cancer. Gene Simmons from KISS joins me live on what Bowie did for him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:27:35]
BROWN: Well, she is widely regarded as the Democratic front-runner, but a new poll shows there's a serious possibility Hillary Clinton could lose the first two primary contests in the nation in Iowa and New Hampshire, both now less than a month away.
The NBC/"Wall Street Journal"/Marist poll finds Hillary Clinton's lead against Senator Bernie Sanders is within the margin of error.
And in New Hampshire, Sanders is beating Clinton. That too is within the margin of error.
Let me turn now to CNN political correspondent Brianna Keilar, who is in Pleasantville, Iowa.
So, Brianna, you just spoke with Senator Bernie Sanders about the poll results. What did he have to say? BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he was, you
could say encouraged. I would say he was almost gleeful about this when we asked him about these tightening numbers in Iowa.
He said he believes this is really where the race is, that he's only a few points behind Hillary Clinton. And, of course, that's something he would want his supporters to believe and he is within the margin of error, so even though is three points behind, this is considered statistically a neck-and-neck race.
It was interesting, though. Here is what he said when I asked him about Hillary Clinton and her latest attacks on him when it comes to guns. He basically said that he feels in a way that she feels vulnerable. This is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: You told "The Des Moines Register" you think she's panicky.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (VT-I), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I think, clearly, they began this race believing that their victory was virtually inevitable. I don't think they believe that today.
Secretary Clinton is running ads on television talking about electability, she is the candidate that can beat the Republicans. Well, if you look at all of these polls, the recent ones in New Hampshire and Iowa, face to face with Donald Trump and the other Republican candidates, we end up doing a lot better than Hillary Clinton does. So, I think in terms of electability in the general election, I think Democrats might want to look at Bernie Sanders as the candidate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Now, something that Bernie Sanders was not as excited about, I will say, are the numbers coming out of New Hampshire.
NBC News/"Wall Street Journal" has him up four points, but that's very close. Obviously, he was hoping -- being a neighbor of New Hampshire from the state of Vermont, he's hoping to pull out a win there in New Hampshire that would obviously be an upset, but, right now, the race is tightening there.
Pam, if you -- Pamela, if you talk to the Clinton campaign, they will stress, look, we said this was going to be a competitive primary season.
But I think that there may be something to what Bernie Sanders said. I don't know that they expected it would be this close at this point -- Pamela.
BROWN: Yes, as you said earlier, perhaps a little too close for comfort.
Brianna Keilar, thank you so much.
And the new polls show the Republican race for the White House is getting tighter in Iowa --
