Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Mexican Actress Linked to Penn-Guzman Interview; Could Sean Penn Face Legal Problems for Meeting el Chapo; Grim Start to Trading Week After Last Week's Chaos In Chinese Markets; CNN Talks to 2 Western Detainees Held in North Korea; Legendary British Singer David Bowie Dies. Aired 2-3a ET

Aired January 11, 2016 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(HEADLINES)

[02:00:55] ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, and welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. I'm Rosemary Church.

ERROL BARNETT, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Errol Barnett. Thank you for starting your week with us. Our two hours of CNN NEWSROOM begin now.

CHURCH: Mexican authorities want to question Actor Sean Penn about his meeting with escaped drug lord, Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman. Penn and Actress Kate Del Castillo sat down with Guzman in October while the cartel leader was on the run.

BARNETT: They took the image you're seeing now and later followed it up with an interview conducted via messaging and video. That interview was published Saturday in "Rolling Stone" magazine, just a day after Mexican forces recaptured Guzman.

CNN's Nick Valencia has details.

JOAQUIN "EL CHAPO" GUZMAN, MEXICAN DRUG KINGPIN: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For the first time, we hear from the drug kingpin himself. Despite being on the run, the drug lord, Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman, agrees to an interview with actor and activist, Sean Penn, A cinematic plot twist to an already surreal story.

GUZMAN: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

VALENCIA: In a report for "Rolling Stone," Penn writes the pair met face to face if October 2015, three months after his brazen prison escape. According to Penn, the meeting happened somewhere in the middle of a Mexican jungle and included tequila and tacos. His irrational fear of being watched by armed drones and being surprised by El Chapo's, quote, "chivalry."

These clips are part of replies from follow-up questions from Penn, sent to a Guzman representative who asked the questions off-camera.

GUZMAN: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

VALENCIA: The meeting, Penn says, was brokered by Mexican actress, Kate Del Castillo. It was 2012 when Del Castillo reportedly developed a friendship with El Chapo after posting a series of tweets critical of the Mexican government while celebrating the notorious drug trafficker. Del Castillo has not commented since publication of the "Rolling Stone" article Saturday night. CNN has reached out to her.

(on camera): Their communication continued over the course of the next three years, even after the 2014 arrest of El Chapo that landed him here at the Altiplano Penitentiary. They stayed in touch via Blackberry messages and letters. And it was that relationship between Del Castillo and el Chapo that eventually led to the meeting between Sean Penn and the notorious drug lord. It was a month of back-door dealings that included encrypted messages, disposable phones and clandestine communications with El Chapo's associations.

(voice-over): In a two-minute clip posted to "Rolling Stone's" website, El Chapo talks about drug trafficking, violence and his role in it all.

GUZMAN: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

VALENCIA: A senior Mexican law enforcement official tells CNN they want to question both Del Castillo and Penn, specifically about the location where the meeting took place.

Nick Valencia, CNN, Mexico.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[02:04:51] BARNETT: Now, as Nick mentioned there, Penn says his meeting with El Chapo was arranged by Kate Del Castillo. She is one of Mexico's most popular actresses, best known for her starring role as a drug cartel leader in the telenovella.

CHURCH: She's also made appearances in American TV series and films. Del Castillo was appointed ambassador for the Mexican Commission on Human Rights in 2009. And she's a known supporter of El Chapo.

Denny Cevallos is a CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney and he joins us now by Skype from Philadelphia.

Thank you so much for being with us.

Let's take a look at the legal ramifications here for Actors Sean Penn and Kate Del Castillo for their meeting with El Chapo. We know Mexican authorities want to question Penn for his October meeting with the drug cartel leader. What are the likely legal ramifications, do you think, for the actors?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: This isn't the first time that a journalist has traveled to meet with somebody that U.S. authorities considered to be a criminal or somebody just dangerous or bad news in general. So this is not a case of first impression. U.S. federal law prohibits harboring or concealing a fugitive. And simply going into the jungle or the woods to meet with a fugitive, as long as somebody's not handing him money, or otherwise helping him escape, arguably the case could be made that by meeting with El Chapo, then the journalist in this case may have assisted in the capture of this fugitive. So then, in this case, it would be a hard case to make that he was actually -- Sean Penn was actual harboring or concealing a fugitive under U.S. law. Mexican law could be a separate issue.

CHURCH: But it was three months after the interview, wasn't it, that they were actually able to locate El Chapo?

CEVALLOS: Right. They were brought to meet with El Chapo and this interview might have come out or probably would have come out irrespective of whether or not El Chapo was, in fact, captured. But they have to have affirmatively assisted him in maintaining his fugitive status, in being able to elude capture and there don't appear to be mean facts yet that point in that direction. Other than Sean Penn and at least one other person going out there to meet with him and do an interview.

CHURCH: OK, so U.S. officials have called for El Chapo to be extradited to stand trial in the U.S. If that happens, how likely is it that Sean Penn will be forced to give evidence against him?

CEVALLOS: Consider the universe of charges against this defendant. They are not pending in one court. They are pending in several courts, and they have been for some time. I'm talking about indictments in different federal district courts. Just in the United States. As a general rule of thumb, when the federal government, when the Department of Justice makes a case, it makes a case, that case stayed made. Now, what that means is that they marshal all the evidence that they need before they go forward with an indictment because they plan to convict. So to the extent that El Chapo may have given an interview, most of that would come in as a confession under federal rules of evidence. But the real question is, does the federal government, does the DOJ even need any of the statements that El Chapo may have made in this interview, either on paper, or on video.

CHURCH: And what do you make of the publishing of this interview with Guzman, one day after he was recaptured, and how might that play into all of the legal ramifications here?

CEVALLOS: It certainly tells us a lot about his position or his personal position or view of what he is in this world. But when you read his actual answers, word for word in response to questions, some of them are very political. Some of them are saying a lot, but you have to read between the lines. So again, you take a step back and you ask from the DOJ's perspective, if you're a U.S. attorney prosecuting this case, yes, it's always helpful anytime any defendant sits down and puts his words down in some form of a statement, because the reality is, nobody can ever testify to the same story twice. And anytime anyone puts their story down on paper, there's always something there you can find that's helpful.

That being said, you have to answer the U.S. government probably has so much evidence against this defendant in so many different jurisdictions that the additional value of this interview -- it may ultimately be more interesting than creating valuable evidence against him.

CHURCH: All right. Danny Cevallos, thank you very much. We appreciate your analysis on this.

CEVALLOS: Thank you.

[02:10:04] CHURCH: And it is a grim start to the trading week after last week's chaos in the Chinese markets.

BARNETT: That's right. Looks very much similar to what we saw this time last week. You see there on the right side of your screen, the Shanghai Composite has dropped more than 5 percent, as has the Shenzhen Composite. Australia's S&P ASX 200 down more than a full percentage point now.

For more perspective on this, let's bring in Andrew Stevens. He joins us live from Hong Kong.

Andrew, the so-called Chinese circuit breakers were designed to prevent nose dives and fear. They kicked in twice last week. Based on trends today, they're not really preventing losses. What is the latest on all of this?

ANDREW STEVENS, CNN ASIA-PACIFIC EDITOR: Those circuit breakers turned out to be an own goal, because ITN fused investors and they panicked when they saw heavy-handed action from the government closing trading because the mark fell by 7 percent. Last week, I think the Shanghai Composite was open 29 minutes for the entire day. They were removed on Friday because they were having the opposite effect of what was intended. So the difference this week, you're seeing the market falling 5 percent now, but there is no circuit breaker which can stop the market. So it theoretically should be able to continue to fall and foul and fall and fall until it finds a natural level of support. This is how stock markets are supposed to work. What the Chinese authorities have learned to a cost of their credibility, you can't buck the markets. Let them decide where they should be. We're seeing investors continuing to sell because they think the markets are overvalued. A lot of people agree with that. They want to get out because they don't know what the Chinese government is going to do next. They just want to get out. That's what we're seeing at the moment.

BARNETT: Andrew, and what about the Chinese currency, the Yuan, steadily losing value against the dollar recently, how has that played into all of this?

STEVENS: The Yuan has been sort of a proxy, if you like, for people's concerns about the state of the Chinese economy. So when they see the Yuan weakening and weakening and weakening, they assume the economy is in a bad state and that the government is weakening the Yuan to promote exports, make them cheaper, to help prop up the economy. So that was the psychology at work here. For the last two days, remember the Chinese government or the Chinese central bank has a very strong control of the level of the Yuan, where it should be trading. So they set a level of trade and the Yuan will fluctuate within a couple points of that level. So for the last two trading days, the Chinese authorities have set the Yuan a little bit stronger. But people, again, it comes back to that point about trying to buck the markets. People are very wary of what the Chinese authorities are doing. They have lost a lot of credibility. Even though the Yuan has been slightly stronger over the last couple days, it's still not restoring any nerves as we're seeing in the stock markets -- Errol?

BARNETT: So we're seeing this week without those circuit breakers kicking in. We'll see how this progresses in the hours ahead.

Andrew Stevens, from Hong Kong. 13 minutes past 3:00 in the afternoon there. Andrew, thank you.

STEVENS: Thanks, Errol.

CHURCH: And it was a night of stars and glamour as Hollywood's awards season kicked off with the 73rd Annual Golden Globes. "The Revenant" received top honors of the night.

BARNETT: The gritty film won for best picture drama, for best director, and for best actor, Leonardo DiCaprio.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEONARDO DICAPRIO, ACTOR: Two years ago, we found ourselves submerged deep in nature with all of its complications and all the beauty that it gave us cinematically. This film was about survival. It was about adaptation. It was about the triumph of the human spirit, but more than anything, it was about trust.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: And British comedian, Ricky Gervais, took on hosting duties for the night's awards and he didn't waste any time with barbs for Hollywood's elite.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICKY GERVAIS, COMEDIAN: I'm going to do this monologue and then go into hiding.

(LAUGHTER)

Not even Sean Penn will find me.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BARNETT: And we will have more from the Golden Globe Awards later this hour. Film critic, Richard Fitz William, will join us to talk about some of the most memorable moments from the night and some of the unexpected ones as well. CHURCH: When we come back, North Korea gives CNN exclusive access to

a prisoner that it claims is a U.S. citizen. We go to the reclusive country for a live report.

[02:15:07] BARNETT: Plus, more action on the Korean peninsula. We'll tell you about the latest reaction to North Korea's hydrogen bomb claims. Stay with CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(SPORTS)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BARNETT: North Korea says it's holding a U.S. citizen on charges of spying.

CHURCH: Authorities in the country have allowed CNN to speak with this man, who says he is a naturalized American citizen.

And CNN is the only U.S. broadcaster in North Korea. Our Will Ripley is in Pyongyang with this exclusive.

Will, what are we learning about this prisoner that North Korea says is a U.S. citizen and how hard will it be to confirm his citizenship status?

[02:19:42] WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Rosemary. The North Koreans after we arrived told us they were holding an American citizen accused of spying, but we didn't have any other details until shortly before our interview when we met Kim Dung Chul, who is 62-year-old. He showed us his American passport, which says he was born in South Korea. Kim claims that he moved to the United States back in the early '80s and became a U.S. citizen in 1987. The U.S. State Department is not confirming that he's a U.S. citizen. In fact, they're not talking about his case at all. But according to Kim himself, he says that he was living in China and crossing into North Korea to work in a special economic zone where foreign businesses employ North Korean workers. And it was through these border trips that they say he was collecting nuclear and military secrets and passing them along to conservative elements within the South Korean society at the university level and the government level. South Korean authorities we've checked with have dismissed these claims and called them groundless, but listen to what Kim told us about how this all worked.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RIPLEY: How did it work, how did you pass on the information you collected?

KIM DUNG CHUL, U.S. CITIZEN HELD PRISONER IN NORTH KOREA: I bribed a local resident and had him gather important materials, such as military secrets, nuclear-related materials. I got these materials hidden in my car and secretly brought them to China where I handed them over. Or I would go to South Korea and deliver them directly. (END VIDEO CLIP)

RIPLEY: So Kim is now detained in Pyongyang. He has no trial date set. He has no idea if or when he'll be able to see his family, including his wife and two children. He's asking for the U.S. government and the South Korean government to come rescue him. We know that from government officials they are now looking into this case, but that's all we know right now. So this will be something we'll have to watch very closely -- Rosemary?

CHURCH: Will, you spoke exclusively to another prisoner, a Canadian pastor sentenced to life with hard labor. What did he tell you?

RIPLEY: His name if Hyeon Soo Lim. And this is a case that we have been following closely for almost a year now when he was arrested in North Korea on a humanitarian trip to an orphanage, nursery and a nursing home that his church in Toronto, Canada, had helped to establish. He's made more than a hundred trips to the country, but claims he was using his religion to try to overthrow the regime led by Kim Jong-Un. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RIPLEY (voice-over): Thousands of miles from home, a world away from his old life, Canadian Pastor Hyeon Soo Lim lives under the constant watch of North Korea and guards. So contact with his family or parishioners of his Toronto church. The 60-year-old works eight hours a day, six days a week, alone, digging holes in an orchard. At the labor camp where he's serving a life sentence, Lim is the only prisoner. The guards wait just outside.

(on camera): How are you feeling?

HYEON SOO LIM, PASTOR & CANADIAN HELD PRISONER BY NORTH KOREAN: Fine.

RIPLEY: Are you OK? Are you in good health?

LIM: Yes.

RIPLEY (voice-over): Lim speaks and understands English, but the authorities insist he answer our questions in Korean. We assume they're listening from another room in this Pyongyang hotel.

LIM (through translation): I wasn't originally a laborer, so the labor was hard at first. But now I've gotten used to it.

RIPLEY: Lim says he gets regular medical care, three males a day, humane treatment from a country with a poor reputation for human rights.

At his trial, North Korea claim he entered under the false pretense of humanitarian aid. They say he was using religion to try to overthrow the atheist regime.

Lim admits to openly criticizing North Korea's leaders, a severe crime in a country that forbids political dissent. "I admit that I violated this government's authority, system and

order," he says.

(on camera): Would you say your biggest crime was speaking badly about the supreme leaders of this country?

LIM (through translation): Yes, I think so.

RIPLEY (voice-over): Kim says he's not been forced to study North Korean ideology. He's requested a Bible, but hasn't gotten it yet. He says he prays every day.

(on camera): What do you play about?

(voice-over): "I pray for the country," he says. "I pray for North and South Korea to be unified so a situation like mine won't happen again."

After about an hour, the guards return. It's time for this pastor- turned-prisoner to go back to a life of confinement he never expected, but seems to expect.

Lim waits and wonders if he'll ever see his family and parishioners again. He says no matter what happens, he's at peace.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RIPLEY: I've spoken twice with Lim's family and they of course were happy to see that he appears to be in good health. We had him record a private message and we sent it to them so they could hear in his own words and he just talked about how valuable family is and how much he loves them. Of course, they're hoping to get him home and they're grateful for the North Korean government for allowing the interview to happen. But they're also pushing the Canadian government to use all diplomatic channels possible to help get him released. We'll have to watch this case as well -- Rosemary?

[02:25:20] CHURCH: Yeah, we certainly will.

Will Ripley joining us from Pyongyang with this exclusive.

We're getting this breaking news in. We've seen this on social media. Legendary British singer, David Bowie, has died after a battle with cancer. He was 69 years old.

BARNETT: That's right. Bowie was inducted into the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame in 1996, received the Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award in 2006. And we've just seen -- Rosemary mention social media. His son took on the website to say, quote, "Very sad and sorry to say it's true. I'll be offline for a while. Love to all." That message coming from David Bowie's son, as the world new reacts to the news of this legendary performer passing.

CHURCH: Rebecca Sun, a senior reporter for the "Hollywood Reporter," joins us now. This is devastating news for so many fans across the globe who have

followed him. I followed him myself when I was younger. He is a powerful legend in the music industry. Talk to us about what he leaves behind here and what we know about his fight with cancer.

REBECCA SUN, SENIOR REPORTER, HOLLYWOOD REPORTER: Yes, it's definitely a shock. I think that the statement that abruptly came out just a little under an hour ago said that he had been fighting cancer for 18 months. It was not publicly known at all. So we're still waiting for, you know, hoping for more details about what type of cancer it was. We really don't know.

But in terms of his legacy, this is definitely one of the iconic artists of the 20th century. David Bowie really pioneered a lot of, not just in music, but in culture, in terms of gender expression, androgyny, fashion. He was in film. He was involved in so many different types of projects for a better part of four decades. The whole idea of a concept album, David Bowie had one of the earliest concept albums, with Ziggy Stardust, inventing alter egos. Really immeasurable impact.

CHURCH: As you say, a lot of people so surprised to hear he was battling cancer. He's been out of the limelight for a while. He dabbled in acting for a time there, not as successful in acting as he was in singing. But talk to us more about his ground-breaking work. Because he just was an extraordinary artist of his time.

SUN: That's right. You know, I think that anybody who's a music fan can probably tell you his or her favorite David Bowie song. His music has been covered extensively by artists that came after him. His work really inspired a lot of the, you know, the whole, starting from the disco wave of the 1970s to glam rock in the '80s to, I would say that a lot of our pop artists now, Lady Gaga, Miley Cyrus, Katy Perry, all owe a huge debt to him marrying visuals to sound. Nobody did it quite like David Bowie did.

CHURCH: And what about his personal life? We know of his wife, of course. But we don't know much about his son.

SUN: Yeah, so his son, and part of that is because his son's surname, Duncan Jones, he took David Bowie's actual name. David Bowie was born David Jones. His son is a film-maker who made a well-respected sci-fi movie called "Moon" a few years ago. But we are about to hear more about his son soon because his son is the director of a film called "War Craft," an adaptation much the popular video game "World of War Craft." So his son is a great director, a pretty young guy. His marriage to Iman, you know, despite the fact that it's your typical model/rock star marriage, but it was actually very solid. They were together for a very long time. He lived for the past, you know, decade or so quietly in New York City. Although ironically, just in the past year or so, he became active again. And this is why his death is such a shock. He just released his 25th album two days ago, which was his 69th birthday, "Black Star." It's clear that David Bowie knew something that we didn't. But we now have a new album from him even though he's now gone. [02:030:09] BARNETT: And, Rebecca, Errol here with you on this

breaking story of David Bowie passing at the age of 69. You talk about an album he had just released. He was also to be honored at Carnegie Hall here not too far away. Just talk to us about where he was in his career. We hadn't seen much of him of late. But he was almost preparing for another act, you could say.

SUN: Yeah, I think so. You know, he has that album. He had appearances lined up. He actually has a musical currently. He wrote an off-Broadway musical that's running in New York, running for the next 10 days, starring Michael C. Hall. Very much somebody who was not preparing to wind down. So, you know, it's unclear. I don't know if his cancer took a sudden turn the way these things sometimes do, or if he just didn't want -- he wanted to keep working until he could no longer do so. And so -- but certainly, you know, after a period of -- he was relatively quiet, I would say, up until 2013 and then he came out with an album, "New Day," which did very well, and then another album two years later. So I feel like we were about to see more from David Bowie until this happened.

CHURCH: And that's what makes this all the more heart-breaking. Talk to us about what you know about why David Bowie went quiet for so long, in fact, coming out again in 2013, but quiet for so long compared to some other artists of his era.

SUN: You know, I think that I can only speculate that for somebody who was in the limelight for so long and really was -- fully embodied his artistry. I don't really blame the guy. For a normal person, they would want to retire around 55, 60, and he sort of did take a hiatus. I'm sure he was still creating and living well among his family and friends in New York, but just -- you know, perhaps it was just, everybody sort of needs to recharge their artistic muscles, recharge that creativity. You know, it wasn't like a permanent retirement. There was no big declaration, no big failure that drove him into privacy. It was just sort of his choice. And that was the thing David Bowie always did. He did what he wanted to, what he felt like. And whether that was take a break or come out with the new studio album, appear in a movie, do a musical, you know, that's what he always did.

BARNETT: And if you're just tuning in, we are covering this breaking development. Singer David Bowie has passed away at the age of 69. His publicist saying this is after a battle with cancer, not a publicly known struggle that David Bowie had been dealing with for the past year. We've already seen response from his son saying he'll be off social media for a while.

We understand U.K. Prime Minister David Cameron has already sent a message via social media as we all really absorb this news of a legend being lost.

Rebecca Sun is joining us from Los Angeles.

Rosemary and myself here at CNN Center, gathering all the latest information on this. And this will surely, Rosemary, be a shock to the world. CHURCH: Absolutely. We're looking at David Cameron's tweet there.

He says, "I grew up listening to and watching the pop genius, David Bowie. He was a master of reinvention who kept getting it right. A huge loss."

And he's so right. This is the situation with David Bowie who had gone quiet for a while, but we were expecting so much more from him.

We're going to take a very short break. Rebecca Sun has been with us there in Los Angeles. We'll come back with more on this story on the other side of the break. Do stay with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:37:38] CHURCH: We return to this breaking news in the world of music. Legendary British singer, David Bowie, has died of cancer. He was 69 years old.

BARNETT: Bowie was inducted into the Rock 'N' Roll Hall of Fame back in 1996. He received the Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award in 2006. The man at one time was known as Ziggy Stardust. He influenced music and styles from when he started in the '60s all the way to the present day. A really incredible career.

CHURCH: Yeah, and he continued working this entire time, dipping in and out of the public eye, and reinventing his career several times over and reinventing himself. His newest album, "Black Star" was released on Friday and is being met with critical acclaim.

So we want to go back to Rebecca Sun, who joins us again from Los Angeles. She's a senior reporter for the "Hollywood Reporter."

Rebecca, the world is trying to digest this. It's a shock, because no one was expecting it. A shock so much in actual fact, people and certainly the media were holding back and looking for confirmation. They were seeing this on social media, but they wanted to hear it directly. Of course with all the hacking of many accounts, people couldn't believe it. They needed to hear it straight from the publisher. Talk to us about there that process and this surprise that he was suffering cancer.

SUN: That's right. You know, I think that we first heard the news, there was a tweet that came out from David Bowie's official Twitter account, which is sort of a, you know, sort of represents his team. It's a verified Twitter account that suddenly linked to this Facebook message. His page saying that he had passed away after an 18-month battle with cancer. Like you said, it was sort of hard to believe because nobody had any indication that he was sick or that this was a possibility. Nowadays, hoaxes are very, very common. So there was a -- there were websites that immediately sort of, you know, announced that this was a David Bowie 2016 hoax. Those articles, in fact, were the hoaxes. We at the "Hollywood Reporter," and our sister publication, "Billboard," were able to get confirmation directly from David Bowie's representatives. And I think that's what other news outlets have now done. But certainly, you know, the nature of it, because nobody had any idea he was sick, especially so sick. There's just a lot of shock and disbelief going around. And people don't want to believe it. People love David Bowie. We don't want to believe the news.

[02:40:28] BARNETT: And also -- Rebecca, Errol here -- the idea of a man who lived and worked in front of the camera, in the public eye for so long. We've seen with other celebrities, like Robin Williams, for example, who had his own medical issues and suffered quite privately. His widow has now publicized in the time that led up to his death. It's a very difficult thing for a star like David Bowie, someone who even transcends being a human, being immortal with so many kinds of pseudonyms and other names and characters that he made himself, he would have had to have this very private struggle with cancer these past 18 months.

SUN: Absolutely. I think that cancer as most of us unfortunately know, it does take a physical toll and, you know, because he had sort of been away from the public eye. I mean, he did put out an album, but it's not like -- I don't recall him going or seeing him on television recently or anything like that. You know, and you actual hit on an interesting point when you talked about David Bowie sort of being a little bit transcending human, because for him, so much of his Ziggy Stardust persona and all of his alter egos was really sort of this alien creature, someone who seemed like he could be somewhat fantastical, immortal. Obviously, none of us -- you know, we know that he's just a man like any of us, but it's just -- I don't think we were prepared for it. 69 is not really that old. Definitely surprising.

CHURCH: Yeah, I think all of us are still trying to absorb this. And let's talk about his newest album that was released Friday, "Black Star." What do we know about that? It was met with critical acclaim, as we've just reported.

SUN: That's right. What's interesting about "Black Star," actual, now knowing, even before what we know now, the reviews of it, the songs in that album were really a meditation on death and dying, executions. It was a very -- death is a very strong theme throughout that album. He does have one song on it called "Lazarus," which is a character from the Bible, who Jesus raised from the dead, so a lot of themes about mortality. And again, you know, if you revisit that now, knowing that he wrote this, likely concurrently while he was battling cancer, while knowing that his own life was nearing its conclusion, it really puts it into a different light. And I think that his fans ought to revisit -- well, you know, listen to this album really with the perspective of what is David Bowie trying to communicate now, knowing this is going to be his last work.

BARNETT: And his work has spanned decades. Another interesting aspect of all of this, we're all kind of wondering now, where did we first hear or see David Bowie. Rosemary remembers following him from when she was younger. I remember a movie he was in, in the '80s, some campy movie about a labyrinth or something.

CHURCH: "Labyrinth."

BARNETT: Yeah, a larger than life character. We'll all have these various and different reference points.

If you had to sum him up to one large performance or album, what will he be remembered for, if you can narrow it down to one thing?

SUN: You know, I think all of those things and I think a lot of it will depend on the individual's age, like you said. How old you were when you first sort of came into pop cultural consciousness. For me it was also "Labyrinth," growing up in the '80s, and that's become a cult classic. But I think his Ziggy Stardust work will be one of his most memorable. That whole look and that whole idea of creating an album where you are actual playing a different character throughout that entire record is something that other artists have attempted, but none quite as indelibly as David Bowie. That whole glam rock that he sported with the crazy hair and the makeup and the androgynous clothes and the spandex. It inspired -- there was a film that came out late '90s, "Velvet Gold Mine" starring Yuan McGregor and Christian Bale. That was sort of directly inspired by David Bowie and Iggy Pop, those great glam rockers from Britain in the '80s. But I think Ziggy Stardust will be one of the most -- I mean, he is one of the most memorable characters from 20th century pop culture.

[02:45:34] CHURCH: I have to agree. For me, it's Ziggy Stardust. And what was so extraordinary about David Bowie as an artist, as a singer, as a legend, is his ability to reinvent himself. And Madonna was able to copy that same, moving forward, always changing, this persona to reinvent yourself and reinvigorate your artistry. So talk to us more about how often he would do that, how he would dig deep and find these new personas that he would put out there.

SUN: Yeah, I think that you can sort of track -- again, I think that the longevity of his career, it really mirrors just the changing trends, many of which he was driving himself, you know, throughout, you know, pop music, through the decades. You know, going from, you know, disco, morphing into glam rock, and then sort of a stripped down, sort of his elder statesmen years, where he didn't continue wearing makeup and outlandish clothing, but instead it was a very tailored, you know, such a handsome man, right, in his later years. But he matured himself along with his sound, along with his look, and I think that was really vital to continuing to be a relevant artist while maintaining that iconic legend status. I remember his, you know, duets with Queen and just a lot of -- there's so many different incarnations of David Bowie that to be able to continue to be a chameleon in those ways was really, is a rare gift.

BARNETT: One aspect we've not talked about, of course, is his relationship with his wife, the supermodel, Iman. During the '80s, an interracial relationship was kind of a headline grabbing thing. Can you speak to us about their relationship and carrying this in the public eye, this rock star with a supermodel?

SUN: Absolutely. There are a lot of angles to that. One is certainly it seems like the cliche of the rock star with the supermodel. Most of those unions end poorly. But they had a very solid relationship. They were always so in love for decades. That's very rare, especially, again, between a rock star and a supermodel. The interracial aspect is very -- I think is very, very significant. They got together at a time when this was highly unusual. Enormous amounts of social pressure, criticism, but very ground-breaking for two role models to sort of set forward a new model and say, this is what love looks like. This ought to be acceptable, to sort of normalize that. They were definitely, you know, a progressive in that regard. Until they were no longer unusual, which is a great thing.

CHURCH: Yeah, indeed. And, Rebecca, I do want to just read out that post that was sent out on Facebook. "And David Bowie -- if we can just bring that up -- "David Bowie died peacefully today, surrounded by his family, after a courageous 18-month battle with cancer. While many of you will share in this loss, we ask that you respect the family's privacy during their time of grief."

And of course, we learned from that, just the very private man that he was, even though this incredible public persona that we all saw, we were all witness to through history, but when it came to this, to death, he did this very quietly and very privately, and clearly, this is a request of the family to just please respect them at this time.

[02:49:48] SUN: You know, again, absolutely. And I think in a way that's not entirely surprising. Because I think he was a guy who had very clear delineation between his public and his private life. Anything that he chose to reveal about himself, you know, his sexuality and things like that, was a deliberate choice. But the fact that he was not really a -- somebody who was constantly in the tabloids for trouble-making, not a lot of controversy that was, you know, that he wasn't sort of instigating himself. Mindful of just sort of pushing the social barriers, so to speak. You know, he was very private. You know, he -- people who knew and lived -- his neighbors in New York City and people, his friends, he had a very quiet and private life, which is exactly how he wanted it, to have that boundary.

BARNETT: Rebecca Sun, senior reporter with the "Hollywood Reporter, speaking to us from Los Angeles as we cover this breaking news here on CNN, the iconic legend and singer, David Bowie, has passed away at the age of 69. His publicist says this is after an 18-month battle with cancer.

Rosemary and I, here at CNN Center, will continue to get more details on this and reaction from around the world.

Please do stay with CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SINGING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) (WEATHER REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:55:31] CHURCH: More now on the breaking news in the world of music. Legendary British singer, David Bowie, has died of cancer. He was 69 years old.

BARNETT: He was inducted into the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame in 1996, received the Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award in the year 2006. But he is the man known as Ziggy Stardust at one time. He's influenced music and styles from when he began his career in the 1960s all the way until the present day. In fact, he just released an album last week, Friday.

CHURCH: And he continued working this entire time, dipping in and out of the public eye, and reinventing his career several times over. His newest album that Errol just mentioned, "Black Star," was released on Friday and is being met with critical acclaim. We're going to have more on this at the top of the hour. Please stay with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SINGING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)