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New Political Polls; El Chapo Arrest; San Bernardino Widow Attends Speech. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired January 12, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:30] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And here we go on this Tuesday afternoon. So great to be here live on Capitol Hill here in Washington, D.C. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

You can feel the energy. Big, big news here. The final year that the president of the United States will be delivering his last State of the Union Address here from The Hill. Much more on what to listen to and look for later this evening and later in the show.

But first, the news right now as it comes to politics, not here in Washington, it's on the campaign trail today. Just into us, these two new polls that are really shaking up the Democratic race for president in a huge, huge way. They show frontrunner Hillary Clinton, the fact that she could lose not just the first but the first two races for the nomination next month, I'm talking specifically about the Iowa caucuses, that is February 1st, and then the New Hampshire primary on February 9th.

This is how it shakes out. Look at the numbers with me. Quinnipiac poll, check it, showing Senator Bernie Sanders with a five-point lead over Hillary Clinton in Iowa. That is just beyond the margin of error. But the story, New Hampshire, Monmouth University poll shows the senator from Vermont has a double-digit lead over Hillary Clinton. Do the math. That is a 14-point lead. This is huge because this is his biggest lead yet. Two months ago Monmouth found Sanders was in a virtual tie with Clinton. And pollsters found in New Hampshire Sanders is now earning more support than Clinton from men, seniors, voters and the ladies, women. Sanders has 50 percent to Clinton's 44 percent.

Let me bring in the great Jeff Zeleny, who is here on Capitol Hill with me.

And, by the way, thanks for having me in your town.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: It's good to have you here. Welcome.

BALDWIN: Good to be here.

Let's begin with, you know, I feel like the - if there ever were a - if there ever was a kumbaya moment between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton in that whole, you know, exchange at the Vegas debate -

ZELENY: Right.

BALDWIN: Remember the whole, enough with her e-mails.

ZELENY: Enough with the damn e-mails.

BALDWIN: Yes, we're past that now.

ZELENY: We are. We are.

BALDWIN: Where are we now?

ZELENY: The reality is here, never mind these polls, but look at what the candidates actually are saying. And Hillary Clinton, in the last I would say week or so has aggressively gone after Bernie Sanders on a variety of issues. Her campaign, I'm told, has seen these numbers for about the last week or so. So they agree with the fact that in Iowa that they are a touch behind and in New Hampshire they believe they are far behind. Now the dynamic here could not be more interesting because we are so close to the vote here. And it matters because this is happening on the State of the Union speech. How the president is perceived actually is impacting both of them, but Hillary Clinton more because she's tied more to him. What Democrats are drawn to Bernie Sanders for is because they think he's an outsider. They think he is sort of, you know, kind of the Democratic side - the Democratic reverse of Donald Trump.

But take a listen to Hillary Clinton earlier today in Ames, Iowa. She was aggressively going after Bernie Sanders on the issue of guns.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We do have differences. And I think it's time and very important for people to understand what those differences are. We have a big difference over guns. You know that. And I think it's a telling difference because if you're going to go around saying you stand up to special interests, well stand up to the most powerful special interest, stand up to that gun lobby. Bring people together and let's have common sense gun safety measures.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So what Hillary Clinton is trying to do here is trying to issue some sort of a rallying call to Democrats to get them to look at Bernie Sanders' record specifically. I'm not sure if it's going to work, though, because his supporters like him so much already. One number that really struck me from that in the Iowa poll, honest and trustworthiness. And 93 percent of Iowa voters say he's trustworthy and honest. Only 66 percent say she is. So it's not that the Democrats don't like her, but they love Bernie Sanders.

BALDWIN: It's interesting that the trustiness has been an issue with her before and so she's pulling out her husband -

ZELENY: Sure.

BALDWIN: Who's been stumping for her, and also her daughter out on the trail today in New Hampshire. Here was Chelsea Clinton.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHELSEA CLINTON, HILLARY CLINTON'S DAUGHTER: And it's one of the reasons I'm so grateful that my mom is running for president because I very much believe she's the right president for my granddaughter and for - my daughter and for the children that she will have for when hopefully I'm lucky enough to become a grandmother.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Mention - the grandmother mention.

ZELENY: Right.

BALDWIN: Perhaps softening of a Hillary Clinton image.

ZELENY: No doubt. And for younger voters.

BALDWIN: Yes.

ZELENY: That's one thing that's so frustrating I'm told to Hillary Clinton herself.

BALDWIN: Yes.

ZELENY: Why do so many younger voters are turning to Bernie Sanders.

BALDWIN: Love Bernie Sanders.

ZELENY: He's a 74-year-old. The oldest candidate in the race on either side.

BALDWIN: Yes.

ZELENY: So that's why Chelsea Clinton is out there in New Hampshire. She's heading to Iowa this weekend. The full-court press of the Clintons is on. And they know what can happen. You know, they've seen it eight years ago. So I think it's not panic mode yet at all, but there's definitely a sense of anxiety and worry.

[14:05:08] BALDWIN: OK, Jeff Zeleny, thank you, my friend. I appreciate it.

ZELENY: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: And just a quick programming note for you here. Hillary Clinton sits down with Alisyn Camerota. Do not miss that interview airing tonight at 7:00 Eastern right here on CNN.

And it is not just Democrats in Iowa and New Hampshire who may be showing a preference for Bernie Sanders. I want you to listen to this huge interview. This is the vice president, Joe Biden, sitting down with our own Gloria Borger.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Bernie is speaking to a yearning that is deep and real and he has credibility on it. And that is the absolute enormous concentration of wealth in a small group of people with the middle class now being able to be shown being left out. There used to be a basic bargain, if you contributed to the profitability of enterprise, you got to share in the profit. That's been broken. Productivity is up. Wages are stagnant.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: But Hillary's talking about that as well.

BIDEN: Well, it's - but it's - it's relative new for Hillary to talk about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: OK. With me now I have Amie Parnes, senior White House correspondent with "The Hill" and CNN commentator Bakari Sellers, who used to be a state representative in South Carolina.

So great to see both of you.

And, Amy, let me - let me kick the conversation off with you. You know, to the point that Jeff Zeleny was making, not only is Bernie Sanders leading both in Iowa and New Hampshire, his biggest lead yet, and you saw that, ahead 14 points in New Hampshire. My question is this. For the Democrats who have been sort of sitting on the sidelines, who assumed they would be Hillary Clinton, you know, supporters, if he were to win both of those states, do you think that they would they take another look at Bernie Sanders? What might he be selling that they'd be interested in, Amy?

AMIE PARNES, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, "THE HILL": I think - I think they will, Brooke. I think the biggest thing is that he will go into South Carolina after Iowa and New Hampshire with momentum. And that's something that all candidates want. They want to go in, you know, saying, look, I was very electable in these two states. I have the momentum going into the next few states. But the question is, does he really, because she's really set up in South Carolina and Nevada in a really big way. She has the money. She has the organization in a way that Bernie Sanders doesn't. So I think that all kind of boils down to the fact - you know, I think that that will help her in the end even if she loses the first two states.

BALDWIN: To you, Bakari, the notion - I think it's interesting, as we've talked so much on the Republican side as to how the outsiders have really done so well. But now when you look at this - we'll call it maybe a Sanders surge in New Hampshire, the fact that he's up -

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN COMMENTATOR: Feel the Bern.

BALDWIN: Feel the Bern.

SELLERS: That's right.

BALDWIN: So it's - both - on both political parties, on both sides, far left, far right resonating. And that says that the establishment candidates, in at least two states thus far, aren't buying it.

SELLERS: Well, yes. But the Clinton supporters, I'm one myself, but the Clinton supporters around the country, I think that the word of the day is r-e-l-a-x.

BALDWIN: OK.

SELLERS: Relax.

BALDWIN: It's not panic mode, like Jeff Zeleny was just saying.

SELLERS: Not - not panic - not, not panic mode.

BALDWIN: Not yet?

SELLERS: Not yet. Not yet. And the reason being is because when you start to get to states who look more reflective of the Democratic Party where you had a large number of minority voters, Hillary Clinton's going to do extremely well. When you start in South Carolina and then you get to Super Tuesday where you have many southern states that are going to be choosing their nominee, you'll see that the electorate doesn't look like the electorate in Iowa and New Hampshire.

I still think she'll do very well in Iowa. I think Brooklyn and other places where she's - you know, her headquarters, think that New Hampshire's probably a long stretch. But New Hampshire is Bernie Sanders' home.

We just can't discount what Bernie Sanders is doing, though. Bernie Sanders is -

BALDWIN: With the young people.

SELLERS: Oh, he's running a hell of a campaign. Let's - let's not confuse it. He tapped into an energy that's there. We see by the number of donors he has, we see by the fact that he secured Killer Mike's (ph) endorsement. I mean it's just - it's a new energy. It's a new type of energy. Hillary Clinton's going to have to step her game up a notch, and I think she will. I'm supporting her because she's a fighter and she's not going to give this thing up.

BALDWIN: Amie, do you want to jump in on that?

PARNES: Well, I think, you know, what you have seen is, I don't know if they're scared. I think scared might be a little too - going too far. But you have Terry McAuliffe campaigning for her last weekend. Bill Clinton is coming back to campaign for her. Chelsea Clinton is going to be there. Four senators, four women senators. You know, they're putting everything they have, 11 out of 12 eggs as one source told me recently, into this Iowa basket to prove that they can win. And they're thinking a win is a win is a win. So even if they win by three points, they're going to count that as a win.

BALDWIN: What about - let's pivot to Joe Biden. I mean here he sits down, give this phenomenal interview to our college, Gloria Borger.

SELLERS: Yes.

BALDWIN: And he, you know, praises Bernie Sanders.

SELLERS: It was epic trolling of Hillary Clinton. That's what I call it.

BALDWIN: I mean let's - if you haven't seen this, for anyone watching, part of the - part of the quote was, this is what Vice President Biden - "Bernie is speaking to a yearning that is deep and real and he has credibility on it," whereas for Hillary Clinton he says "it's relatively new for Hillary to talk about that." This is one of the longest serving politicians who spent many a year here where we're seated, vice president of this country. How do you take that if you're in Camp Clinton?

[14:10:09] SELLERS: I'm not - first of all, I'm not taking your bait. I'm not going to say anything ill about the vice president of the United States. Absolutely love Joe Biden.

BALDWIN: No, he's wonderful.

SELLERS: He's wonderful.

BALDWIN: But he knows what he's doing.

SELLERS: But he knows what he's doing.

BALDWIN: Even though he walked it back a little bit this morning.

SELLERS: And I think - I think - I think that Hillary Clinton reads that and turns the page. And Hillary Clinton understands that there is an energy out there, that we have to talk about income inequality, that African-Americans want to hear about mass incarceration. You have to talk about these issues with some level of compassion. She has to take the guard off and she's doing that, but she has to do more of it.

People - I have a 10-year-old stepdaughter and one of the most amazing things is, I want her to be able to touch Hillary Clinton and be able to see her and understand that she too can be president of the United States. That's the most amazing thing.

BALDWIN: But - but - but - but, let me go to Amie.

Amie, you know, the vice president didn't make it about, you know, Hillary Clinton. His point was about Bernie Sanders.

PARNES: Right. And that's - that's huge today. I'm talk - I was talking to sources recently -

BALDWIN: It's noteworthy.

PARNES: Yes, it really is. For someone, like you said, who's so experienced and well versed in this, that was a bit shocking. I think that, you know, he does know what he's doing. And that - that was a bit of a sting to the Clinton campaign, particularly this far down the stretch when they need someone, they need an endorsement like Joe Biden's. And so I do think that hurts a little bit for them.

BALDWIN: Amie Parnes and Bakari Sellers, thanks, you two, I appreciate it.

SELLERS: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, can we talk about Sean Penn, responding now for the very first time to the backlash over his secret meeting with El Chapo. And it turns out Sean Penn was being watched during that trip. We have pictures. This is just a little sneak peek for you. Much more on that.

Also ahead, a member of ISIS being blamed after an explosion in one of the world's great tourist spots. We will take you there live.

And new video of the fugitive in the Paris attacks after the mass shootings. See where he went and what he did.

I'm Brooke Baldwin, live here on Capitol Hill on this Tuesday ahead of the president's final State of the Union. We'll be right back.

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[14:16:10] BALDWIN: You are watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin, here live in Washington. But the big story today continues to be out of Mexico, this secret passageway hidden behind a mirror leading to the world's most wanted drug kingpin to this maize of underground sewers. You're looking at Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman's escape route that Mexican marines wouldn't find for 90 minutes as they frantically raided his house. New CNN video of his hideout shows kitchen counters littered with trash, bullet holes in walls and doors. But it's these pictures right here of actor Sean Penn may have led police to that squallered, second story house in Sinaloa, Los Mochis, Mexico, and eventually led to his capture. It turns out as Sean Penn and Mexican actress Kate del Castillo travelled to meet with El Chapo for that controversial "Rolling Stone" interview, intelligence officials were indeed watching.

Joining me now, Martin Savidge, who is live outside that prison where El Chapo remains behind bars.

My goodness, where to begin on this one? Tell me more about this meeting and how did it lead authorities to El Chapo?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Mexican authorities have said that that story, that interview, was essential to the capture of El Chapo. I'm referring to Sean Penn's interview. I don't think what they mean is that anything that was said in that interview is what did it for them. Clearly from those photographs you've just shown, it's the fact that the meeting took place and that authorities appear to be tailing either Sean Penn or Kate del Castillo, the Mexican actress, or both of them. And as a result, they began to piece together that, oh, they're going to meet with El Chapo and this meeting is going to take place in a mountain hideaway up there in the mountains of Sinaloa.

What we don't know here is the connection that gets them to the house two months later in Los Mochis and that is quite some distance both in time and travel. So it would imply that maybe Mexican authorities had some other kind of information, some other kind of intel from another source that led them to that house. We don't' know. They haven't explained it yet.

Meanwhile, from that interview with Sean Penn, one of the things that was talked about was El Chapo's life on the run. What's it like. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How has your life changed, how have you lived it since you escaped?

JOAQUIN "EL CHAPO" GUZMAN (through translator): Lots of happiness because of freedom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever use drugs?

GUZMAN: No, sir. Many years ago. Yes, I did try them. But an addict? No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How long ago?

GUZMAN: I haven't done any drugs in the last twenty years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: The irony is, of course, that his freedom was cut short quite quickly as a result, it seems now, of that very interview. And he's, once more, inside this maximum security prison.

Sean Penn, by the way, has been asked how he feels about all of this. The only comment he would give to the Associated Press was, he said he has nothing to hide. That's it.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: I saw that. Martin -- Martin, thank you very much.

Still ahead here on CNN, with 20 days to go until the Iowa caucuses, we'll talk with a political veteran who says a Trump or Cruz nomination will mark the end of the Republican Party as we know it. What he says party leaders should then do about that.

Plus, there will be one empty chair at tonight's State of the Union Address here on Capitol Hill, that chair to honor and remember victims of gun violence. Something my next guest knows about all too well. She lost her husband in those San Bernardino shootings. She will attend tonight's State of the Union. We'll ask her what she wants to hear from the president, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:24:14] BALDWIN: And we are back here live on Capitol Hill. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Tonight, President Barak Obama will go before Congress and the

American people in his final State of the Union Address. His speech expected to be optimistic, reflective. These are some bits and pieces we're getting from the White House ahead of time. But it will also tackle key domestic and foreign policy issues. Here is a look ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want us to be able, when we walk out this door, to say, we couldn't think of anything else that we didn't try to do. That - that we didn't shy away from a challenge because it was hard. That we weren't timid or got tired or somehow we're thinking about the next thing, because there is no next thing. This is it. And never in our lives again will we have the chance to do as much good as we do right now. I want to make sure that we maximize it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:25:10] BALDWIN: The president will touch on the country's gun violence epidemic this evening and there will be an empty chair in the first lady's balcony box to symbolize the victims, including the people of San Bernardino, California. Several first responders and family members of victims of last months' terror attack will be in the gallery, including my next guest. She is Trenna Meins, the widow of Damian Meins, who was shot and killed just a couple of weeks ago. Joining her here, congressman from California, Mark Takano, who represents Damian's hometown of Riverside.

So thank you so much for taking the time. And just my heart goes out to you and, of course, all the family members from San Bernardino and all these shooting that we cover far too often. So, thank you.

TRENNA MEINS, WIDOW OF SAN BERNARDINO SHOOTING VICTIM DAMIAN MEINS: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Can we just begin with your husband? Can you tell me a little bit about him?

MEINS: He was a very intelligent man. A very docile man. He loved the diversity in the office and he loved working with the kids. So he was - he was a wonderful human being. He did not -

BALDWIN: The kids, as in these two lovely daughters off camera here?

MEINS: Not only those -

BALDWIN: The children from the center? Right.

MEINS: Right. Not only - not only those children, but for the school kids.

BALDWIN: Right.

MEINS: And he really was a community service individual. So he tried to help everyone and his idea was to help everyone if he could and to do even the smallest things for anybody. It was - it was the right thing to do.

BALDWIN: It's all the little things, I always say.

MEINS: All the little things.

BALDWIN: You know, I was on the air when it happened and our heart, obviously, breaks for all of you all in San Bernardino. But, you know, I've talked to too many gun violence victims and I ask, tell me about the call, because everyone got the call.

MEINS: Well, the call was, we heard on the news - I heard on the news.

BALDWIN: That's when you first would have found out.

MEINS: That's when I found out. And I texted him and I called him and he didn't respond. And then our friend called me and said that he was going to come down. Everybody was trying to call him and trying to find out where he was because it was kind of mayhem. Everybody was running around. Nobody could - nobody knew anything yet. And then we went down to the Reunification Center. We stayed there until 8:00 at night when the last bus came in. Then we were taken into the room and said - and told that the wounded were in the hospital and those family members had already been notified. And that we were to go home and we would be contacted the next - the next day and - for a positive identification. So we got home about 10:00 that night.

BALDWIN: And I - I already know the answer to my next question as far as why you would ask Trenna to come to be seated with you at the State of the Union, but there are so many families. Why specifically did you ask her?

REP. MARK TAKANO (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, Trenna and her family and Mr. Meins are constituents of mine. And I lost two constituents. I was able to reach Trenna and speak to her personally. You know, we've had a much tougher (INAUDIBLE) I had to reach both families, but I wasn't able to reach the family of the other victim who lived in my district, but whose family actually lives outside the district.

BALDWIN: Sure.

TAKANO: So, really, it's a matter of, you know, those of us in the area, the other members of Congress lost, you know, one or two members of their districts and - but I felt it was also important that the families of the victims were represented here. My colleague, Mr. Aguilar (ph), has done a wonderful thing in inviting the police chief and the sheriff and some of the other first responders.

BALDWIN: That's right.

TAKANO: But I really felt it was important for our community that we also had the real faces of the victims.

BALDWIN: I'm wondering, before you lost your husband, how familiar with you - with gun laws were you in this country or, you know, the knowledge of, you know, loopholes or background checks or is this something you very quickly have become an expert on? MEINS: Well, we did talk about it before. We're a family that we have

guns. Our family has guns. There's hunters and there's policemen -

BALDWIN: Sure.

MEINS: And SWAT team members in our family that - that have guns. We went ahead and we have talked about shooting and gun control. We've also talked our views on that before. But since this has happened, we have found a lot of loopholes that we didn't know existed and we would like that - those loopholes to become tighter so that not everybody has to worry about this, or at least it's more difficult for them to go ahead and do this.

[14:30:07] BALDWIN: Right. Do you feel like the president's executive actions have gone far enough for you?

MEINS: Not for me, but it's a good step.