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ISIS Claims Responsibility For Terror Attacks In Jakarta; Multiple Explosions In Jakarta; At Least Two Killed; Five Attackers Killed; Manhunt For Attackers Over; Previewing GOP Debate; Details On Sailor Detentions; Trump And Cruz Front And Center; Fiorina In Second- Tier Debate; Rand Paul Bows Out; Republican Race; Carson's Campaign Chairman Resigns. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired January 14, 2016 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Rickman died while surrounded by his family in London. He was just 69 years old.

Thank you so much, everyone, for watching. My colleague, Wolf Blitzer, starts now.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 8:00 p.m. in Amman, Jordan, 1:00 a.m. Friday in Jakarta, Indonesia. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

We start with echoes of terrorists now in Indonesia. ISIS now claiming responsibility for a series of well-coordinated attacks in capital city. Explosions and gunfire rock Jakarta. It began when a suicide bomber blew himself up right outside a Starbucks. Gunmen opened fire as police fled the scene. They also threw grenades at police. At least two civilians were killed and dozens of people were wounded.

Our Senior International Correspondent Ivan Watson is joining us now live from Jakarta. Ivan, this is the world's most populous Muslim country. The attacks seem to be aimed at westerners. What is the very latest?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, it was an attack that started with a suicide bomb detonated in a Starbucks. It's about 150 feet from where I'm standing right now in a -- in a very busy intersection, a popular shopping mall that normally right now would be open 24 hours, the fast food restaurants. It's all quiet right now after this attack.

We then hear that two of the attackers tried to grab two people and pull them out into the street. We believe they tried to target foreigners and kill them. And then, there was another group of attackers on motorcycles who tried to attack a very nearby Indonesian traffic police booth that's in the center of the intersection back here.

In the end, two people were killed. One of them is an unidentified foreigner. Another was an Indonesian civilian. At least 19 wounded. Indonesian police say five attackers were killed in all. ISIS has claimed responsibility for this in a statement, Wolf, saying that they were trying to, quote, "teach the citizens of the crusader alliance that there is no safety in Muslim lands."

Indonesian police have identified one Indonesian, they call him Bachroum Niheim (ph). And they say that he is trying to start an ISIS network in Southeast Asia, linking the Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia. They have been carrying out big security operations last month, anticipating a possible attack. So, it is, perhaps, as a result of that that the number -- loss of life here was nowhere near the catastrophic bombings that were linked to Al Qaeda that Indonesia experienced a decade ago -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And, Ivan, it looks like they were going after these western targets like a Starbucks. You say fast food restaurants. I understand a Burger King was not very far away. Did -- in the statement that ISIS released, did they specifically say they were hitting western targets in Jakarta?

WATSON: They singled out that they're trying to target what they call the crusader alliance. And that's one of the terms that they used to refer to basically westerners, Christians, infidels and so on.

Now, it's important to keep this in context. Indonesia was battling in the last decade, in the decade after 911, an Al Qaeda linked movement Jemaah Islamiyah that carried out some pretty devastating attacks in Bali that killed hundreds of people at the start of the decade. 2009 was the last significant attack carried out by this movement.

Terrorism experts say that the Indonesian authorities had a lot of success basically breaking down this militant movement of putting a stop to its activities, for a large part.

And what we could be seeing here is a next generation. And there have been a lot of warnings coming from the Pentagon, coming from Australian law enforcement authorities. Fears that people who are going to fight on the battlefields in Syria alongside ISIS could be coming back and try to bring that deadly nihilistic ideology back here to Indonesia.

It's interesting, there's been a big response on social media here in the Indonesian language, hash tag, (INAUDIBLE.) That means we are not afraid. That's Indonesians speaking out against the ISIS ideology -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Ivan Watson in Jakarta for us with the latest. Ivan, thank you very much.

These ISIS attacks in Jakarta, they are part of a much larger picture. CNN has calculated that since declaring the so-called caliphate in June of 2014, ISIS has conducted or inspired 60 terrorist attacks in 20 countries that killed at least 1,150 people and has injured more than 1,700 others.

[13:05:02] Joining us now is our CNN Contributor Michael Weiss. He's also co-author of the book "ISIS Inside the Army of Terror." Michael, we seem to be talking more and more about these attacks. They're going all over the world right now. Should we anticipate more of this?

MICHAEL WEISS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR (via Skype): Yes, I think is becoming a new normal. And it's not really a new strategy for ISIS when it was known as Al Qaeda in Iraq. Abu Musab Al Zarqawi, the founder of that organization, remember, he was responsible for perpetrating horrific, the worse terror attack in Jordan's (ph) history that was known as their 911, in November 2005, attacking three separate hotels using suicide bombers.

This has always been part of their, sort of, second phase, if you like. It was establishing an Islamic state beginning in Iraq and then spreading into the neighboring countries, including Syria, but also escalating these foreign operations.

So, you're seeing them now at a clip, frankly, that we haven't seen. The frequency with which they're occurring, we didn't see in the aftermath of 911 or in the last decade and a half in the (INAUDIBLE) war on terror going after Al Qaeda. So, this is a quite dangerous state of affairs.

BLITZER: And there are hundreds -- I've been told, hundreds of Indonesians who have gone to Syria, and to Iraq for that matter, to work with ISIS, right?

WEISS: Absolutely. And, you know, look, Indonesia is one of the most pluralistic, you know, moderate Muslim countries, the most populous country. But it has a tradition of, you know, accepting and tolerating minority groups, Buddhists, Hindus, you name it. And you're seeing now this pushback in Indonesian society.

There's another element to this though, Wolf. Both Al Qaeda and Zarqawi had targeted Australia, Indonesian, and we mentioned the Bali attacks in 2002. The reason for this, the justification, was Australia had helped liberate East Timor from Indonesian colonialists. This is why this has helped Bin Laden, himself, justify the Bali attack on Australian holiday makers.

And in 2003, in his devastating debut in Iraq, Zarqawi, remember, blew up the United Nations headquarters in Baghdad. He also said it was because the international community represented by the U.N. had effectively handed a piece of territory to a Christian country. And it had belonged to Muslim land and it was given to a Christian country, being East Timor.

So, there's a lot of geopolitical baggage, if you like, that the Jihadis bring to bear on going after these southeast Asian countries.

BLITZER: Well, why would they go after targets downtown in Jakarta in Indonesia which has the largest Muslim population in the world? They know that in the process they're likely to kill fellow Muslims. Why would they do that?

WEISS: They -- I mean, remember, Wolf, this is -- this is templarism (ph). This is -- you know, this is an ideology, a doctrine that excommunicates Muslims that are deemed insufficiently pious which is to say they don't subscribe to the Salafi Jihadi version of Islam that Al Qaeda in Iraq or ISIS has put forward.

So, killing Muslims, I mean, this is -- remember, Muslims are the first to die at the hands of ISIS. They've been dying in droves in both Iraq and Syria. They consider Shia Muslims to be polytheistic and marked for death. They consider any Sunnis who collaborate or work with the Iraqi government or the United States or this coalition that's been assembled to go after ISIS to be similarly sort of uncle toms or fifth columnists and they can be killed just as easily as a westerner, a secularist, a Christian, a Jew, you name it.

BLITZER: Michael Weiss, thanks very much.

WEISS: Sure.

BLITZER: Up next, Ted Cruz and Donald Trump, they'll be side by side tonight in a South Carolina Republican presidential debate. But can Dr. Ben Carson break through the top two to the tier again to deliver a performance to boost his poll numbers? His campaign manager, his campaign chairman I should stay, is standing by live. We'll discuss.

And later, we have new details on why Iran detained those 10 American sailors after they drifted into Iranian waters. Stay with us.

[13:08:58]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Standing side by side and going toe to toe, the Republican presidential candidates getting ready to square off in the debate tonight, just 18 days before the Iowa caucuses. Donald Trump will, of course, be center stage once again. He'll be flanked by Senators Cruz and Marco Rubio. The battle between Trump and Cruz will also be front and center.

Our CNN Political Reporter Sara Murray is joining us now live from the debate site, North Charleston, South Carolina. Sara, Senator Cruz has started to fight back more aggressively against Donald Trump's attacks. How does -- how is this likely to play out tonight?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, Wolf, I think the time for playing nice is over. In past debates, we have seen Donald Trump hang back. But if you look at the rhetoric on the campaign trail the last couple days, it's been Trump hitting Cruz very hard over this citizenship question, the fact that he was born in Canada.

And Cruz has started hitting right back saying that Donald Trump embodies New York values, suggesting he's a little too cozy with Democrats. And Cruz saying that he would be better up against Hillary Clinton in a general election. All of this basically just happening over the last 48 hours, so I think that really sets the stage for where we're going to be tonight.

BLITZER: As you know, Senator Rand Paul and Carly Fiorina, they failed to make the cut for the main debate. Fiorina will take part in the so-called undercard debate. Rand Paul says thanks but no thanks. Is time running out for these so-called second tier candidates, including Mike Huckabee and Rick Santorum, both of whom will also be in the second tier debate?

MURRAY: Wolf, on the one hand, no one has voted yet. But on the other hand, the polls do not look great for these candidates who are in the undercard debate. I think if you're Mike Huckabee or Rick Santorum, you basically would need someone like Donald Trump or someone like Ted Cruz to completely collapse in Iowa and have hope that the conservative wing of the party turns to you.

And if you're Carly Fiorina, if you're Rand Paul, it's really hard to see a lane for them, at this point. They're not doing particularly well in Iowa. They're not doing particularly well in New Hampshire.

[13:15:06]

And I think Rand Paul expected this to be a very different landscape when he was getting into this race. He was -- his message is one for a war weary public and not necessarily one that feels nervous about ISIS.

BLITZER: Sara Murray getting ready for the debate. She's already there in North Charleston, South Carolina. Thank you.

We're also following a developing story in the presidential race. The finance chairman for Dr. Ben Carson's campaign has resigned. Dean Parker has been at the center of some turmoil inside the Carson campaign. His resignation follows a political article that said he was under fire for big spending, including a $20,000 a month salary. Retired U.S. Major General Robert Dees is Ben Carson's campaign chairman. He's joining us now from North Charleston.

What can you tell us, general, about the resignation of the finance chief, Dean Parker?

ROBERT DEES, CAMPAIGN MANAGER, BEN CARSON 2016: Well, we honor Dean Parker's contributions. Wolf, greetings to you. We honor his contributions and he's done good work at a pivotal time in our campaign. As you know, we've done very well raising funds. He has resigned from the campaign, stepping back to press pause for a while. We'll determine what his new role, if any, might be.

But I -- the bigger story of this is, we've had a wonderful acceleration of our efforts within just the past week with new policy on the street, national security, education, economy, health care, that is commonsense solutions that Dr. Ben Carson, as you well know, promotes, because he's the commonsense candidate and he's -- he's really -- Dr. Ben Carson has a lot of fans across America -- or others have fans, but Dr. Ben Carson has believers. And we're seeing that in Iowa and beyond.

BLITZER: He promises, in his words, Dr. Carson, to be less polite, more aggressive in tonight's debate. What should we anticipate? Will he go on the attack against some of the frontrunners like Trump and Cruz? DEES: Well, Dr. Carson is a master of the counterpunch. So you will

find that he will remain civil in his demeanor. He will focus on issues. He'll focus on what's important to Americans. He won't focus on volume. He'll focus on values. You won't see a temper in Dr. Carson. You'll see temperament. He will not be a divider, but he will be a uniter. He's the very person that can unite America. He's the very person that can go into the inner cities of America and speak common sense to those people, help them climb the ladder of opportunity out of the situation we're in. He's the one that can have a voice in Ferguson, Missouri, in

Charleston, South Carolina, and other places where divides, whether it's special interest groups or racial divide, are very problematic, worse than ever during this Obama administration.

BLITZER: Does Dr. Carson, general, believe that there's a cloud -- it looks like Donald Trump believes, a cloud hanging over Senator Ted Cruz, whether or not he, in fact, is a natural born U.S. citizen? Where does Dr. Carson stand on that?

DEES: Well, I can't speak for Dr. Carson and, frankly, we're not focused on Senator Cruz. His alleged financial irregularities are his business. I'll let him handle that with the media. Dr. Carson, though, has just put out the tax plan that helps solve some financial irregularities in the American family around the table. At (ph) the flat tax, proportional, very fair, no exemptions, no way to game the system. And so we're very excited about that. That's the finances we're worried -- we're worried about, is the people in America.

BLITZER: You're a retired U.S. army major general. You saw the video of those ten American sailors on their knees with their hands over their heads after they were detained by the Iranians. Their two vessels apparently slipped into Iranian waters. What was your reaction to what happened there?

DEES: Well, I think, like Senator McCain, my reaction was pretty visceral to seeing those sailors like that, in submission to another government. That should never happen. I also have learned, as an Army general, that the first report is seldom accurate. I was frankly suspicious when I saw the way in which they expressed the apology and the eye movements. It all, to me, said they were under significant constraints and perhaps even threats. So all of that needs to be investigated further.

I'm glad they're back safe with the Navy, safe, eventually, with their families, but I think this only highlights bigger problems we have with Iran. We have a failed nuclear deal with them. We're (ph) very dangerous as a nuclear developer. But also as we get ready to release hundreds of billions of dollars, over a hundred, to the Iranians, that they might further export terrorism across the Middle East and beyond is outlandish at best.

BLITZER: General Dees, thanks very much for joining us.

DEES: Thank you, Wolf. Appreciate what you do.

[13:20:01] BLITZER: Thank you. CNN's political team, by the way, will be watching the debate tonight

very closely to fact check the Republican candidates and bring you the highlights. Anderson Cooper leads the GOP debate wrap-up, a special tonight, 8 -- 11:00 p.m. Eastern, 11:00 p.m. Eastern, "AC 360: The GOP Debate Wrap-up."

Up next, my exclusive sit-down interview with Jordan's King Abdullah II. His response to Donald Trump's controversial Muslim ban comments, the refugee crisis, the war against ISIS, a whole lot more. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Outlaws of Islam. That's how Jordan's King Abdullah II characters ISIS. Jordan's leader has been here in Washington this week. He's been talking anti-ISIS military strategy with top leaders over at the Pentagon. Yesterday he spoke briefly with President Obama at Joint Base Andrews outside of Washington, D.C.

[13:25:03] I also had a chance to sit down with King Abdullah, where we -- where he weighed in on every important issue out there, including the exploding refugee crisis, the Republican presidential frontrunner Donald Trump's call to temporarily ban Muslims from entering the United States and the continuous relationship -- very contentious relationship at times with Iran.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The Republican presidential candidate Senator Ted Cruz has called allowing Syrian refugees into the United States as the word "lunacy." Donald Trump, the Republican presidential frontrunner now, says taking in Syrian refugees could be a Trojan horse in the United States. When you hear these comments, what's your reaction?

KING ABDULLAH II, JORDAN: There are Trojan horses in there. We definitely know that. And so you have to be careful about the screening. But at the same time, we can't let probably the 80 percent of the other refugees or the 90 percent of the other refugees suffer at the same time. It's so always going to be a balance of your moral code of being able to look after people that are in plight, to the balance of security. And this is something that we've always had to deal with.

BLITZER: How many Syrian refugees has Jordan accepted?

KING ABDULLAH II: Well, more -- we have about 1.2 million, 1.3 million refugees at the moment. But, obviously, we've accepted more than that because some have come in, some have gone back into Syria and some have gone to other countries.

BLITZER: Because as you know, here in the United States, there's a big debate about allowing Syrian refugees into the United States. About 1,500 so far have been accepted. The administration says maybe 10,000 will be able to come in. Do you believe the U.S. is doing enough to help Syrian refugees? KING ABDULLAH II: Well, we had been challenged recently because

there's 12,000 or 14,000 refugees across our border on the eastern side that have not been allowed to come in except for very strict screening. Part of the problem is they've come from the north of Syria, from Raqqa, (INAUDIBLE), which is the heartland of where ISIS is. We know that there are ISIS members inside those camps. And we have tremendous pressure from NGOs and other countries that keep telling us that we have to let them in. We vet about 50 to 100 every day. We do have our government, our military and our hospitals, as well as NGOs on the other side look after them. But the pressure we get from the international community saying, look, we've already got 1.2. So from a humanitarian point of view and a moral point of view, you really can't question our determination. But these -- this particular group has a major red flag when it comes to our security. And so we're being very, very careful on vetting. So I tend to understand when other countries are concerned, but at the same time we can't ignore the plight of the refugees and we have to let people in.

BLITZER: What's your reaction to Donald Trump saying that there should be a temporary ban on Muslims coming into the United States until the U.S. can figure out what's going on right now?

KING ABDULLAH II: Well, I think that's the same challenge that we're being pushed to at the moment with the group that we're talking about. We're saying to those, you know, we've had this comment given to us by the United States that you need to allow these refugees into the country. So we're going back to the United States where these comments have been made saying, look, we understand, we are trying to bring these people in, but we're trying to make sure that the mechanisms that we put in place, make sure it's never going to be fool proof, but we're going to try and make it as sterile as possible.

But like I said, you know, we're accepting 50 to 100 every day from an area that we know there's major danger. Obviously it's those that are ill, the elderly, women and children. I know some people can be callous and say, well, let all the women in, but as we saw in California and we've seen in Paris recently, women, unfortunately, have been part of terrorist organizations and terror strikes. But we can't ignore and just keep refugees isolated. So you just got to be smart and you've got to -- you've got to think with a heart.

BLITZER: Because Donald Trump isn't just talking about refugees, he's talking about all Muslims on a temporary basis not being allowed to come into the United States. You're a major Muslim leader of a Muslim country. You hear these comments. Your reaction?

KING ABDULLAH II: Well, you're into an election cycle, so I don't think it's fair for you to ask a foreign leader to express his opinion on candidates in your country running for election.

BLITZER: In President Obama's State of the Union Address, he said that the fight against ISIS should not be labeled another World War III because that, he says, plays into the hands of ISIS propaganda. You've called this war against ISIS almost like a World War III. Do you see this war against ISIS now as World War III? [13:30:00] KING ABDULLAH II: Well, I've said that the war against the

(INAUDIBLE), the outlaws of Islam is a third world war by other means, which is probably slightly different. And how I've explained it, it's not just ISIS.