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Trump and Cruz Trade Punches During GOP Debate; El Chapo Situation Update. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired January 15, 2016 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[09:00:01] DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I guess the bromance is over.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Trump and Cruz's birther battle plays out in primetime. But who came out on top?

Also, Chicago bracing for protest. After the release of another police shooting video. An unarmed black teenager shot while running away. An officer standing over him, a foot on his bleeding body.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For him to essentially step on him, on top of it, it's just totally unreasonable.

COSTELLO: Plus, face-to-face with Mexico's most notorious drug kingpin. Why does Sean Penn think he's in danger after interviewing El Chapo?

Let's talk. Live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello, thank you so much for joining me.

It is official. The bromance between Republican presidential candidates Donald Trump and Senator Ted Cruz is over. With less than three weeks until the Iowa caucuses, Trump and Cruz stole the show with the first GOP debate of 2016. Both candidates taking off the gloves, hitting each other hard. Today Trump says Cruz's attacks, though, were inappropriate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: He came at me last night. It was inappropriate. And I hit him very heart. But, I mean, I had no idea that he was going to take it that way. He's got a problem. He's got to straighten out the problem. I don't know that he's a nice guy. I think he hurt himself last night. You know he's a good debater but he's very strident. And a lot of people aren't going like that. He's a very strident kind of a guy and I thought it was inappropriate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Even though there were seven candidates on stage it felt like more like a two-man show as Trump and Cruz went head-to-head.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not going to use your mother's birth against you.

TRUMP: OK. Good. Because it wouldn't work.

You have a big lawsuit over your head while you're running. Who the hell knows if you can even serve in office?

CRUZ: I'm not going to be taking legal advice from Donald Trump.

TRUMP: You don't have to.

CRUZ: Not a lot of conservatives come out of Manhattan. I'm just saying.

TRUMP: That was a very insulting statement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Today it is back to business for the Republican rivals. Two hours from now Trump holds a town hall in Iowa. And Cruz heads to South Carolina.

We're also keeping an eye on Senator Marco Rubio. Right now he is rallying voters in New Hampshire.

Let's get right to CNN's John Berman now. He has a more in-depth report on the big debate last night.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: You know, Carol, you put it great. I mean, the "Wall Street Journal" wrote this morning, the problem with the other guys on the stage is they were the other guys on the stage. I mean, there was so much energy, so much conflict between Ted Cruz and Donald Trump and they really gave us something in this campaign they haven't before.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN (voice-over): In the race between Donald Trump and Ted Cruz, the current Republican frontrunner, two things now abundantly clear -- it is truce off, it's game on.

CRUZ: Back in September my friend Donald said that he had his lawyers look at this from every which way. And there was nothing to this birther issue.

BERMAN: Cruz mocked questions Trump is now raising about the fact he was born in Canada and whether he is even eligible to run for president.

CRUZ: But since September the Constitution hasn't changed. But the poll numbers have.

BERMAN: Trump acknowledged yes, that is part of it.

TRUMP: Because now he's doing a little bit better. No, I didn't care before.

BERMAN: But if their most pointed exchange in this race so far he said there is more.

TRUMP: Here's the problem. We're running, we're running. He does great. I win. I choose him as my vice presidential candidate and the Democrats sue because we can't take him along for the ride. I don't like that. OK?

CRUZ: Well, listen, I've spent my entire life defending the Constitution before the U.S. Supreme Court. And I'll tell you, I'm not going to be taking legal advice from Donald Trump.

TRUMP: You don't have to.

BERMAN: The battle moved from Canada to New York in the charge from Ted Cruz that Donald Trump represents what he calls New York values.

CRUZ: Everyone understands that the values in New York City are socially liberal or pro-abortion or pro-gay marriage, focus around money and the media. Not a lot of conservatives come out of Manhattan. I'm just saying.

BERMAN: Trump responded uncharacteristically somber by invoking September 11th.

TRUMP: We rebuilt downtown Manhattan and everybody in the world watched and everybody in the world loved New York, and loved New Yorkers, and I have to tell you, that was a very insulting statement that Ted made.

BERMAN: For the most part the other candidates focused their fire on the president.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This guy is petulant child.

BERMAN: And Hillary Clinton.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She's under investigation with the FBI right now. If she gets elected her first 100 days, instead of setting an agenda, she might be going back and forth between the White House and the courthouse.

BERMAN: Though Chris Christie unleashed on Marco Rubio for dodging a question on entitlements.

[09:05:01] CHRISTIE: Now you had your chance, Marco. You blew it.

BERMAN: And Marco Rubio with just a few minutes to spare in the debate did some unleashing himself on Ted Cruz.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Ted Cruz, you used to say you supported doubling the number of green cards. Now you say that you're against it. You used to support a 500 percent increase in the number of guest workers. Now you say that you're against it. You used to support legalizing people that were here legally. Now you say you're against it. You used to say that you were in favor of birthright citizenship. Now you say that you are against it.

BERMAN: Cruz fought to respond.

CRUZ: At least half of the things Marco said are flat-out false. They're absolutely false.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: Now, Carol, we have some breaking campaign news this morning. My all-star at this hour, co-anchor Kate Bolduan confirms that Senator Lindsey Graham from South Carolina will endorse Jeb Bush this morning. Now, true, Lindsey Graham never exactly, you know, knocked everyone out in this campaign when he was running for president. But he's the first former candidate this race to endorse another candidate.

He is a senator from a key early voting state, South Carolina. That could matter. And he worked very closely in the Senate with Marco Rubio, the Gang of Eight. The immigration bill. So he worked with Rubio yet he's still endorsing Jeb Bush. So could be seen as the snub there.

COSTELLO: Well, we'll see if it matters. John Berman, thanks so much.

After the debate Donald Trump sounded off on Ted Cruz and the controversy surrounding his Goldman Sachs loan and more in this interview with CNN's Dana Bash.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Do you see Ted Cruz as your biggest competition right now?

TRUMP: No, not really. I mean, we're going to see what happens but certainly I don't see him as my biggest competition. I see him as competition. Certainly he's competition and others are competition. All smart people up there.

BASH: On the question about his loan that he got from his wife's bank, Goldman Sachs, do you think it's a nonissue as he was saying because it was the "New York Times" who first reported it?

TRUMP: Well, you're going to have to figure that one out. That's a different issue. I mean, that's something that's very easy. I mean, they're not making it a nonissue. He's had a million dollars. He got it from Goldman Sachs.

Don't forget, Goldman Sachs loaned him money. When Goldman Sachs asks for a favor, do you think possibly he's going to do it for them? I think so. So that's a problem right there. That's why I'm self- funding. I'm putting up my own money. I'm not borrowing any money from Goldman Sachs. I put up my own money. I'll put up a lot. I'll be putting up -- I'll be putting up probably $30 million, $40 million before the primaries are over.

BASH: If you take it the whole way, you could have the potential to need to spend more than that. What's your ceiling?

TRUMP: Oh, I'll spend more than that. I have unlimited. I have a lot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right, joining me now with her perspective on the latest Republican face-off, Rich Galen, a Republican strategist, and Katrina Pearson, national spokeswoman for the Trump campaign.

Welcome to both of you.

RICH GALEN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Nice to be with you, Carol.

KATRINA PEARSON, NATIONAL SPOKESWOMAN, TRUMP CAMPAIGN: Hi, thank you.

COSTELLO: Nice to have you both here. So, Rich, Trump and Cruz dominated. No doubt about that. Did anyone else break away from the pack, though?

GALEN: No, and one of the problems I think everybody had was somebody needed to do that. Certainly somebody among the -- I mean, forget about Carson. But one of the other ones needed to do that. One of the other four. And I thought they all did pretty well which isn't good enough. I mean, if the -- you know, when the river is rising everybody rises with it. That doesn't get you away from anything.

And I thought somebody needed to make a breakout. Everybody had their moments because here's one of the things we know. That when you get deeply enough into the campaign, these debates become easier. You're used to your rhythms, you're used to your opponent's rhythms.

And the big thing is, and especially in a two and a half hour debate, is that you learn how to pace yourself so you have the energy to go through until 11:30 at night. So I thought everybody did pretty well.

COSTELLO: You did? OK. Well, let's center on Ben Carson because you did bring up his name.

Katrina, Ben Carson's star seems to be dimming. He talked last night about the X-O atmosphere and dirty bombs. It was kind of confusing. Is Carson over?

PEARSON: Well, I think Dr. Carson has had a splash and you know, I'll just -- I'll go back to what you started out earlier, Carol, and say this is a two-man race at this point, and everybody else is competing for the number three spot.

You know, Mr. Trump did very well last night and I can tell you a businessman that has never run for office before, to get this far in a presidential primary and hold his own against a Harvard trained litigator, I can tell you today Team Trump is very proud of their candidate.

COSTELLO: All right. So along those lines, Rich, you heard what Donald Trump said about Ted Cruz and we heard Ted Cruz brushing off allegations that he did not disclose a loan from Goldman Sachs as is required by law as a simple filing error. He even tried to raise money telling supporters that the "New York Times" launched a, quote, "all-out assault" designed, in his words, to discredit and destroy his campaign. But is this more than that?

GALEN: Well, it depends on who's side you're on obviously.

PEARSON: Well, it might be.

GALEN: The -- I mean, what the Cruz team says that he did file on his personal filings that he had to file with the Senate while a candidate. So it's not like nobody knew about this. They didn't understand all the rules, they say, about how to file.

[09:10:11] But let me go back to something else. Being a two-man race isn't terribly helpful. It doesn't hurt but it is not as helpful to Donald Trump as this being a three or a four-person race where the other three or four people are all fishing out of the other side of the pod. So that the -- one of the things about going into Iowa and New Hampshire is that Christie and Bush and all the other establishment candidates are all trying to go after the same voters.

That's good for Trump because it splits their votes. So I think the Trump team needs to re-jigger their talking points this morning. It's not terribly helpful to be a two-person race. Better that it be a six-person race with Donald Trump 30 points ahead. That's the comfort --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: OK. So going --

PEARSON: But if you look at the numbers in the polls, the Republican primary voters are definitely saying we don't want an establishment guy. The only guy that's gained any traction in the last month or so has been Marco Rubio.

GALEN: I'm sorry, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings.

PEARSON: So it essentially is a two-man race.

GALEN: I'm just telling you that's where you did wrong.

COSTELLO: OK. So let's talk about how Donald Trump scored when he stood up for New Yorkers. He told MSNBC he could win states Republicans have never won before like New York state and New Jersey.

Katrina, is that his strategy?

PEARSON: Well, I think he's felt that way all along and that was an amazing response last night and we were very proud of him for saying that. Everyone's hearts went out to the people of New York and the way that they handled that. And I think that was very clear what New York values were.

COSTELLO: Rich, do you think that Donald Trump has a chance of winning New York state?

GALEN: No. But he doesn't need it. I mean, if he's the nominee he can win the presidency without New York state and you know, it's his home state so he would I suspect put some effort and money and resources into it. But the electoral map can be won by a Republican without New York and California. And it's because they have done it. The last time somebody -- a Republican won New York was probably back in the Rockefeller era.

But, you know, it's his home state so I think you've got to say those sorts of things and I think he's correct in at least putting it in play because what you do then is you make either Hillary or Sanders you make them spend money on New York that they didn't think they were going to have to spend because that was off their checklist. We got that one. So Trump is saying things like that. I think if he's the nominee is very helpful.

COSTELLO: All right. Rich Galen, Katrina Pearson, I have to leave it there. Thanks to both of you.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Sean Penn speaking out about his controversial meeting with drug kingpin El Chapo. What he says his biggest regret about the whole ordeal is.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:16:3] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: News out of Hawaii this morning. The military confirming two of its aircraft collided off the island of Oahu. CNN Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr is here with more on that. Good morning Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol, the U.S. Marine Corps confirming a full search under way off the north shore of Oahu island in Hawaii, looking for any indication of survivors of this crash. This was two U.S. Marine Corps helicopters, Ch-53s, we were told that crashed in midair. 12 people in total, six on each helicopter. They have been searching now for hours. So far no signs of survivors. I think you see some of the video there.

The coast guard out in Hawaii reporting that they did find a debris field, an empty lifeboat and what they believe to be a small fire at sea so very difficult news. We're just coming up in a little while on first light in Hawaii so they maybe able to get a better look but after several hours the search at sea for any survivors of the crash of these two marine corps helicopters still continues, Carol?

COSTELLO: Sad news. Barbara Starr we'll get back to you, thank you.

Sean Penn says he has terrible regrets about his secret meeting with the drug kingpin El Chapo but only because he says his interview didn't spark a conversation about drug policy. And now Penn says he's like maybe at risk over claims that the Clandestine Jungle meeting led to El Chapo's capture. Here is what he told CBS news. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN PENN, ACTOR/POLITICAL ACTIVIST: There is this myth about the visit that we made, my colleagues and I with El Chapo. And it led that it was as the Attorney General in Mexico has quoted, essential to his capture. We had met with him many weeks earlier.

CHARLIE ROSE, CBS ANCHOR: On October 2nd.

PENN: On October 2nd in a place nowhere near where he was captured.

ROSE: So as far as you know you had nothing do and your visit has nothing do with his recapture?

PENN: The things -- here are the things that we know. We know that the Mexican government, they were clearly very humiliated by the notion that someone found him before they did. Well nobody found him before they did. We didn't -- we're not smarter than the DEA or the Mexican intelligence. We had a contact upon which we were able to facilitate an invitation.

ROSE: Do you believe that the Mexican government released this in part because they wanted to see you blamed and to put you at risk?

PENN: Yes.

ROSE: They wanted to encourage the cartel to put you in their cross- hairs?

PENN: Yes.

ROSE: Are you fearful for your life?

PENN: No.

ROSE: At first I wanted to know why you wanted to do this. Why you wanted to go there and second I want to know the sense of how you thought about the risk you might be taking and why that risk was worth it.

PENN: I had only that I thought this is somebody who -- upon whose interview could I begin a conversation about the policy of the war on drugs. That was my simple idea.

ROSE: You wanted to have a conversation about the policy of the war on drugs.

PENN: That's right. We're going to put all our focus -- forget about blame. We're going if put all our focus, all our energy, all our billion of dollars on the bad guy. And what happens? You get another death the next day. The same one.

ROSE: Do you make a moral equivalency between El Chapo and people who either buy or sell drugs in America?

[09:20:02] PENN: I do have if it's me. I can't make -- I don't make that judgment for everyone else. But I wouldn't go so far as to buy or sell drugs.

ROSE: So he's no better than you or no worse than you?

PENN: I say I can't make him worse than me if I'm not out there doing everything that I can to get a conversation going on the way in which we prosecute that war.

ROSE: You have said to the AP, but I'm asking you -- you have no regrets?

PENN: Yeah I have a terrible regret.

ROSE: What are the regrets?

PENN: I have a regret of the entire discussion about this article, ignores its purpose, which was to try to contribute to this discussion about the policy and the war on drugs.

Let's go to the big picture of what we all want. We all want this drug problem to stop. We all want the killings in Chicago to stop. We are the consumer. Whether you agree with Sean Penn or not, there is a complexity there. And if you are in the moral right or on the far left, just as many of your children are doing these drugs. Just as many. And how much time have they spent in the last week since this article come out talking about that? One percent? You're saying let's be generous.

ROSE: I think there's much dialogue about as...

(CROSSTALK)

PENN: My article failed. Let me be clear. My article has failed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: CNN Senior Latin American Affairs Editor Rafael Romo joins me now. There is really no doubt about that because most of the news is centered around Sean Penn and this sexy actress exchanging text messages with El Chapo.

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN SENIOR LATIN AMERICAN AFFAIRS EDITOR: Yeah. I mean it's a very, very important interview for Sean Penn because he's trying to set the record straight as to why he was trying to do this. And he says he wanted to start a conversation about drugs in America. But also, he probably should have paid attention to the risk that he was taking by doing this interview. He should have been scared the moment he decided to go ahead with the secret meeting with the drug lord, Carol.

Joaquin El Chapo Guzman, let's not forget this. He made a name for himself when he was young because he would put a bullet in someone's head for this slightest mistake. And remember this is the leader of the Sinaloa Cartel which authorities say is responsible for thousands and thousands of deaths including journalists, including elected officials and anybody of the countries between them and their business, Carol. Now both Mexican and U.S. officials have told us in the last few days that the meeting with El Chapo contributed to the drug lord's capture. But as we have heard, Penn used the interview to rebut those claims saying that he's not smarter than the DEA or Mexican intelligence and that all he had was a contact, now we know who is Kate Del Castillo that facilitated an invitation to meet one of the most wanted men in the world, Carol.

COSTELLO: So is Sean Penn talking like this because he's in fear for his life right now? Why is that aspect of this so important to him?

ROMO: Because I think he had an agenda and the agenda based on the interview and what he told CBS was to begin a conversation as to what happens when somebody in suburban American consumes drugs. That begins the process by which the money that they spent on the drugs facilitates the killings, the violence, the blood baths in Mexico. And that is what he says he wanted to do. But the opposite was reality.

Everything has been focused on the relationship between this Mexican actress and El Chapo and how they went and met in secret and apparently how the Mexican and U.S. officials used their whereabouts of the contacts that have been made to make this interview happen to capture El Chapo, Carol. So it's just incredible to hear him speak.

COSTELLO: Well you know what in reading his article in Rolling Stone, perhaps he should have written it in a different way. Because a lot of it dealt with how he clandestinely met with El Chapo and the, you know, the extreme methods he went to, to keep the meeting secret and...

ROMO: Yes. That is a very important point because at one point it sounds like he's glorifying Joaquin El Chapo Guzman and I'm not sure that that was his purpose, Carol.

COTELLO: All right Rafael Romo, many thanks.

[09:24:40] COSTELLO: Still to come in the news were rally against Trump. That's not coming from a Democrat and RNC member urging fellow republicans to take on the Donald.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTEELO: We are a little less than two minutes away from today's opening bell and things aren't looking so great. We're expecting a big tumble in the U.S. stocks. Futures have been struggling all morning long. In fact, early morning trading, the futures are down like 300 points.

This is China. The China markets and the price of oil continues to plunge.

Alison Kosik is on the floor of the New York stock exchange. What's the mood down there?

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: The mood is sour. That's because we're watching the market to continue to toss and to turn while it tries to find footing and as you said, it doesn't help that China's stock market had a huge selloff overnight. China actually is officially in a bear market. And that means it is 20 percent off its recent high and as you said plunging oil prices also keeping stocks here unstable. It's because, we're seeing oil prices with that levels that we haven't seen since 2003. I'm talking about oil prices below $30 a barrel. And because the crash in prices is happening so fast and it's so steep. It's really unsettling to financial markets because it is hard for stocks to rally when an entire sector is in free fall.

You look at energy stock themselves, just to think about it this way, they make up 6 percent of the S&P 500, that's the broader index that investors really watch. So that's about 40 companies. So when you see oil prices fall, so do those company shares. And the thing is oil has yet to find the bottom so that's a really, really big worry here on Wall Street. OK, even if consumers are loving the lower gas prices, at Wall Street is shaking in its boots.

The mood once again is a sour one because Carol there is growing concern about whether the U.S. economy, which is currently the strongest economy in the world when you compare it to China or compare it to Europe but the question is, can the U.S. economy continue to shoulder the pressures of weak economies elsewhere?

[09:30:02] Actually the Wall Street Journal just conducted a survey of the economists finding there is 17

percent chance. The U.S. will go into a recession this year. That's actually the highest --