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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Debate Buzz Follows Trump; Dow Falls; Sean Penn Talks Article. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired January 15, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Three candidate maybe. Brett (ph), great to see you

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you all for joining us "AT THIS HOUR."

BOLDUAN: LEGAL VIEW with Ashleigh Banfield starts right now.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

Urbandale, Iowa, is a long way from New York City, but a seemingly heartfelt ode to New York and New Yorkers in last night's GOP debate may be helping Donald Trump close the deal with Iowa caucus goers because as we speak Mr. Trump is holding a town hall in that state that holds America's first nominating contest, and that is just a mere 17 days from now. And he told that crowd that he is in this thing to win it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're winning every single poll, and we're winning in Iowa. We're winning in Iowa. And I really want to win Iowa. You know, people say, oh, well, just say you want to do well in Iowa. Just say you want to do well. That way, at the end, if you come in second or third or fourth, you know, you can say - I say, I want to win Iowa. I've really hit - we have a great relationship with the evangelicals, like fantastic, and with the Tea Party, and with everybody in Iowa. And I really want to win it. I mean, to me, this is going to be fun. I'm going to be here a lot. I'm going to be here so much in the next two weeks, you're going to be sick of me. You're going to say, oh, I can't stand him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Well, actually, a Bloomberg/"Des Moines Register" poll released on Wednesday shows that Trump and Ted Cruz are in a virtual dead heat in Iowa. A month ago you might remember that Cruz had a 10- point lead over Trump in that state.

CNN's Jim Acosta joining me now from the site of the Trump event.

The big question I think for Donald Trump, if you look at those numbers, it's translating those numbers into actual people. People who go out on a cold night and do the hard work of caucusing, because it's not just marking a ballot, it's debating, it's talking, it's demanding, it's cajoling, and that's a different deal.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It is, Ashleigh. It's also registering as a Republican, apparently. One of Donald Trump's supporters was on stage before he took the stage here and was reminding people in this crowd when you - before you go out on caucus night, make sure you register as a Republican. So they are concerned about getting out the vote on caucus night here. You heard Donald Trump talk about that at the very beginning of this event, you heard him there, you played that clip, Ashleigh, where he says, I really want to win Iowa. You know, I don't want to finish second, third or fourth. And he talked about how he has a fantastic relationship - one of the go-to Donald Trump adjectives - that fantastic relationship with evangelicals.

And - but, you know, what's interesting about this event so far, Ashleigh, is that despite that clash with Ted Cruz last night, he hasn't really mentioned the Texas senators. Donald Trump has talked about how the reviews were good for his debate performance last night, and they were good. He said - and he likes to take some jabs as the media. He said, you know, the pundits are finally getting it. And so this is the candidate - he is already pretty confident as it is, but he walked in here very confident, this event here in Urbandale, Iowa.

And, Ashleigh, what is also interesting about that event, it sort of paints the picture of where the Donald Trump campaign is right now. We know he can fill a big arena with 20,000 people. If - if I could just turn around a little bit, there's only about 200 people in this room asking questions of the Republican frontrunner, and he's been going through about 15, 20 questions so far, answering each of these questions. And that has been one of the other open-ended questions about Donald Trump in this campaign is, yes, he can fill a crowd, he can fill a room, but will he get on the ground, do the nitty-gritty retail politicking that is also necessary to win this state? He's in the process of getting that started right now.

He spent the night here in Iowa. Sort of spent the night. He came up from the debate in South Carolina. Only spent a few hours on the ground here before going into interviews this morning. But that's the other big part of this, is the endurance part of this. Ashleigh, as you know, it's a marathon, and you definitely need a lot of Red Bull at this stage. And Donald Trump is proving that he can come out, after just a few hours' of sleep, and take 15 to 20 questions from an audience here. And, you know, he said at one point, you know, he went back to Nikki Haley and President Obama's criticism of being angry during those State of the Union speeches on Tuesday night. Donald Trump, you know, was owning that and saying, yes, I am angry. I'm angry about incompetence. I'm angry about stupidity. So this is pretty vintage Donald Trump despite having only a few hours of sleep.

BANFIELD: Well, as supporters have also said while they've been waiting in long, cold lines, that they're angry, too, and that that's drawn them to that frontrunner.

Jim Acosta is the standing room only but yet only 200 people, as you mentioned. It's a small venue, but it's vocal.

Jim Acosta, thank you for that.

The next to last pre-caucus Republican debate was a direct reflection of those Iowa polls. Trump and Cruz going at it and doing battle over values and valor with Marco Rubio challenging or calling out Cruz and Chris Christie on those issues. If you missed it, here's a peek.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Everyone understands that the values in New York City are socially liberal or pro-abortion or pro-gay marriage, focus around money and the media.

[12:05:05] DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: New York is a great place. It's got great people. It's got loving people, wonderful people. When the World Trade Center came down, I saw something that no place on earth could have handled more beautifully, more humanely than New York.

CRUZ: Back in September, my friend Donald said that he had had his lawyers look at this from every which way and there was no issue there, there was nothing to this birther issue. Now, since September, the Constitution hasn't changed, but the poll numbers have.

TRUMP: Here's the problem. We're running. We're running. He does great. I win. I choose him as my vice presidential candidate and the Democrats sue because we can't take him along for the ride.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Unfortunately, Governor Christie has endorsed many of the ideas that Barack Obama supports, whether it's Common Core or gun control or the appointment of Sonia Sotomayor or - or - or the donation he made to Planned Parenthood. Our next president and our Republican nominee cannot be someone who supports those positions.

CRUZ: (INAUDIBLE) Obama.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'd like to interrupt this debate on the floor of the Senate to actually answer the question you asked, which was on entitlements. Do you remember that, everybody? This was a question on entitlements and - and the reason - and the reason -

RUBIO: Oh, I'll answer the entitlement question then.

CHRISTIE: No, you already had your chance, Marco, you blew it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: That's some spectator sport, huh?

Check this out. Trump's defense of his hometown brought yet another twist to this unorthodoxed election cycle applause from Hillary Clinton. She tweeted this, "just this once Trump is right, New Yorkers value hard work, diversity, tolerance, resilience and building better lives for our families." And if you're shaking your head, let's bring in the panel to unshake.

Cheri Jacobus is a Republican strategist and public relations guru, and Nomiki Konst is a Democratic strategist and head of the Accountability Project.

Thank you both for being here.

I don't even know where to begin. It was kind of fun watching last night. It becomes blood sport after a while, I've got to say. But I want to, Cheri, get you to weigh in on whether this is truly - it's so close to the - to the first contest become a three - three way race between Trump, Cruz and Rubio.

CHERI JACOBUS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I think it has. And the others have tried and some of them should have done better and didn't for various reasons. Some of those reasons fair, some not fair. But the fact is, it's down to the three. I'd like to see the next debate be just Rubio, Cruz and Trump. I think that it helps Cruz and Rubio. It shines - had a light shown on them. And I think that having a light shown on Trump and exposing some of the things that haven't been covered very well by him, his misstatements, his out and out lies is something that's good for the process. It's certainly good for both Cruz and Rubio. Good for the voters. Good for the Republican Party. So I think it's time for the others to go.

BANFIELD: So what about, Nomiki, what about the birther issue? That was really front and center last night. It was, again, it was blood sport between a constitutional lawyer in Cruz and a guy who just raises these issues and tosses them out there like spaghetti hoping they'll stick to the fridge, and they really tend to stick to the fridge, if history's any indicator. How much power and strength do you think this is going to have weeks out from the vote?

NOMIKI KONST, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I mean, we're three weeks - two weeks away from the Iowa caucus, and the types of issues - you know, the reason why Donald Trump brought up this issue, he's planting a seed in the mind of - in the minds of Iowa caucus voters. And so is Ted Cruz, to be fair, with the New York values statement that he made. They're both trying to woo this - this - there's a few voters left in Iowa that could go either way. Some of them were Carson supporters. A lot of evangelicals and very conservative voters who turn out. And those two are fighting over that base.

Now, to get back to Cheri's point about Marco Rubio, you know, I don't understand what all this sensationalism is about Marco Rubio. The one who's doing well in New Hampshire right now is Chris Christie. So I really think it's going to be a race between Ted Cruz and Donald Trump in Iowa and Chris Christie and Donald Trump in New Hampshire. And those are the four (ph) - the three people.

BANFIELD: So that's - that is a great point, Nomiki.

In fact, Cheri, weigh in on the Chris Christie factor because every time you watch him in a debate, he looks mad, he looks angry. And the sound bites that are lifted and played in the news cycles for the next 24 to 48 hours are mad. JACOBUS: Yes.

BANFIELD: And sometimes that doesn't play well, but the whole Trump juggernaut has been based on being mad. Trump admits it, he's mad.

JACOBUS: Their -

BANFIELD: His supporters say he's mad. So why isn't that working for Chris Christie?

JACOBUS: There's a difference between strong leadership and just being angry. And I think that Chris Christie is capable of strong leadership. I don't think that he's broken through enough in this race to do - and he can do well in New Hampshire, but I think this is a three-man race.

Look, there's a reason why the Democratic National Committee last night put out a slew of tweets slamming only Marco Rubio after this debate. He is the one they are most afraid of. Polls show that he is the one they should be afraid of. And you've seen that Trump hasn't really tried the go after Marco Rubio. And when Jeb Bush goes after Marco Rubio, frankly, I think it helps Rubio.

So it's a little bit of a slower process. But again, the smaller field will benefit both Cruz and Rubio.

[12:10:18] BANFIELD: OK.

JACOBUS: And I think we'll see Trump start to fade.

BANFIELD: We -

JACOBUS: But, look, Chris Christie is a good candidate. Carly Fiorina is a good candidate. John Kasich is probably the most qualified of the bunch. But for various reasons, they haven't broken through. It's time to winnow the field.

BANFIELD: Neither has Bush. Neither has Bush. And guess what happened today?

KONST: But -

JACOBUS: Right.

BANFIELD: South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham, and that's the third contest, South Carolina, it's right around the corner, he came out and gave his endorsement to Governor Bush, and immediately, as though Trump was expecting it, the tweet went out. Let me read what Donald Trump tweeted about Lindsey Graham's endorsement of Governor Bush. "Jeb Bush, who did poorly last night in the debate and whose chance of winning are zero, just got Graham endorsement. Graham quit at zero."

Nomiki, do you really think that? You don't think that that matters in a state like South Carolina? Look, Iowa's one thing. New Hampshire's another. South Carolina's got a lot of votes. KONST: South Carolina does have a lot of votes and I think that they

respond to the issues of national security that - that, obviously, Lindsey Graham brought up. But, you know, this is a strange election. I mean I don't think this is going to win it for Jeb Bush. I think that its - it's great to have all the endorsements in the world, but it's really great for the general election. But right now there's no path forward for Jeb Bush to be the general nominee. Now he could, could possibly be the vice presidential nominee. Some people are talking about - behind the scenes some people are talking about a Cruz/Jeb Bush nomination if Cruz does make it to the general election. So, you know, I don't see any - any path forward for Jeb Bush to be the general election nominee.

BANFIELD: Cheri, Nomiki -

JACOBUS: Can I just say what matters - what matters in South Carolina -

BANFIELD: Real quick. Last - last wrap-up. Go ahead.

JACOBUS: The endorsements in South Carolina matter - that matter, Trey Gowdy matters, Tim Scott matters and Rubio has those.

KONST: Right.

JACOBUS: Nikki Haley seems to be leaning towards Chris Christie. Look, Jeb Bush coming out and saying -

KONST: But Rubio has nowhere to grow right now.

JACOBUS: Jeb Bush coming out and saying -

KONST: I mean, Cherri, you keep saying Rubio's name over and over -

JACOBUS: Excuse me. Excuse me. But one of the things that Jeb -

KONST: But Rubio's trying to be - he's trying to be a conservative and a moderate at the same time.

JACOBUS: Jeb Bush is saying that one of his problems with Marco Rubio is that he doesn't agree with him any longer on amnesty. That helps Rubio. So this is a way -

BANFIELD: I've got to wrap it there, ladies.

JACOBUS: This is a way for - for Jeb to bow out gracefully in my view.

BANFIELD: Thank you to both of you. We could go on all day, and we do, in fact, on CNN. Thank you to the two of you for being part of that conversation.

JACOBUS: Thank you.

KONST: Thanks.

BANFIELD: All right, so hold on to your wallet, folks, and pray for your portfolio, because the Dow has been in a freefall. Take a look at these numbers. They started out really ugly and they got even uglier. It was down more than 400 points. Is it going to go much lower? And, by the way, is it only today? We're going to take you live to Wall Street. We're going to talk your 401(k). And we're also going to talk whether this isn't a great time to buy. I mean it. Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:16:57] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BANFIELD: Another one of those days. Really breaking is a small word for this. It's a stomach-turning day in the U.S. markets. Just after the opening bell this morning, the floor just fell out of the Dow and the S&P and the Nasdaq too. The big board right now saying that the Dow is down more than 438 points. And, by the way, it was down around 300 just in a minute of trading. It was crazy.

Alison Kosik was there watching it all. She's on the floor of the stock exchange right now.

Is anyone breathing where you are, because it just keeps getting lower and lower? Give me the rundown.

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: It is getting lower, though we are seeing this selling certainly accelerate right now. We do see the Dow, as you said, down 438 points. Look at the Dow. It's down below that 16 - it's below that psychological milestone of 16,000.

You know what, pick your poison of what's causing the sell-off today. You've got oil prices falling yet another 5 percent, below $30 a barrel. We haven't see that level since 2003. We had that huge sell- off in China. We had some bad data come out about the U.S. Retail sales in December, the crucial holiday shopping season, those retail sales numbers, they fell in December. Also, a regional manufacturing index, it's at a level we haven't seen since the recession, since March of 2009. So what you've got is the reaction to all that happening right here on Wall Street. The reaction and the - about the worry that the slowdown in China could wind up washing up here on the shores of the U.S.

Not helping things is the day. It's Friday. Believe it or not, oftentimes you see investors sell. When you're seeing this kind of volatility on the market, they sell before a weekend because they don't want to hold on to shares. But here's the thing, Ashleigh, it's a long weekend. Monday, stocks are closed, but China's markets are open. So you're seeing investors cash out because they just don't want to hold on to anything because it's a long weekend, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: All right, Alison, hold that thought for a second.

Christine Romans is CNN's chief business correspondent. She's here with us as well to maybe put a little of this into context.

Alison listed off a whole bunch of factors causing this to happen. A lot of them were about America. And then she talked about oil and she talked about China. How much of this is our problem and it's reflected in those numbers. How much of this is everybody else around America causing our problem?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: It's everyone around the world, concerns about weak - emerging market currencies, concerns about oil and what this crash in oil prices is going to mean for the financial system and for the countries that produce, you know, produce oil, how slow is - look at - look at that chart. Let me show you that chart. That's down 70 percent. It's not since its peak. That is a crash below $30 a barrel. That is such a good thing for drivers, for American consumers. Such a bad thing for so many of the companies and so many of the financial products that are tied to crude oil. It is - it has been destabilizing. Too much of a good thing is this case turns out to be a bad thing.

So oil is a big part of this here. You know, 8 percent down. There's concerns about bankruptcies in the oil patch, but you're right, you're right, this is the rest of the world having a lot of problem and will the United States be able to remain that prettiest house on the block. You know, we've got someone knocking on the door here with some problems. There are those who think the market is overacting. Investors have been terrified for three weeks. But it's the same mix of sort of bad international news that's causing it.

[12:20:11] BANFIELD: People love to hear that gas is around $2. That's just terrific.

ROMANS: It could go less than that.

BANFIELD: And it's - I mean it translates to hundreds of thousands of dollars for the average family out there. We all have to remember that we may be drivers, but we also have 401(k)s.

ROMANS: Yes.

BANFIELD: We also have college plans for our kids. We also are heading into retirement. And this is the kind of remind, as you always like to say, for people close to retirement, where you should have your money.

ROMANS: People close to retirement, if you are five years from retirement, you should not have every penny in the stock market. I mean that's just sort of personal finance 101. If you are a younger investor, if you're the middle-aged investor, you've got a 529 plan for your kids, pullbacks are opportunities to buy cheaper shares.

BANFIELD: Say that again.

ROMANS: Pullbacks are opportunities to buy cheaper shares. And, you know, half of the S&P 500 companies, their stocks are in a bear market. They're down some 20 percent.

BANFIELD: Yes.

ROMANS: So the big question is, how much will the disruption in the oil market, potential disruption in the credit market, and China's showdown hurt America's recovery? We don't know the answer to that yet. We're getting earning season. We're seeing what companies have been affected. But people - you know, smart people buy stocks when they're on sale.

BANFIELD: Guess what?

ROMANS: And, boy, they're on sale.

BANFIELD: I've been doing some mad buying because these are the greatest sale prices I've seen in a long time.

ROMANS: You have a stomach for risk, my friend. You do.

BANFIELD: No, I don't have a stomach for risk. I just keep adding slowly. I add slowly as things are either going down or going up and I -

ROMANS: Dollar cost averaging.

BANFIELD: Yes, dollar cost averaging. I learned a long time ago from her. I learn everything from her.

Thank you.

ROMANS: You're welcome.

BANFIELD: Appreciate it so much. Christine Romans and our thanks to Alison Kosik, too, who's, poor girl, I mean she's got the seat belt on down at the market today. She's going to continue to report for us all day.

Coming up next, Mexican authorities say that Sean Penn's interview with El Chapo led to the drug lord's capture. So why is Sean Penn now saying that the interview and his article were a failure, and how worried is he about his safety now? Those answers, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:26:19] BANFIELD: My article failed. Those words coming from actor Sean Penn, who's breaking his silence about his secret meeting with the drug kingpin El Chapo. He says that his "Rolling Stone" article did not achieve its intended purpose, which was to spark a conversation about drug policy. In the meantime, Sean Penn is denying claims made by Mexican officials that his meeting contributed to El Chapo's capture. Here's what he told CBS News.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN PENN, ACTOR/POLITICAL ACTIVIST: We know that the Mexican government, they were clearly very humiliated by the notion that someone found him before they did. Well, nobody found him before they did. We didn't - we're not smarter than the DEA or the Mexican intelligence. We had a contact upon which we were able to facilitate an invitation.

CHARLIE ROSE, CBS NEWS: Do you believe that the Mexican government released this in part because they wanted to see you blamed and to put you at risk?

PENN: Yes.

ROSE: They wanted to encourage the cartel to put you in their crosshairs?

PENN: Yes.

ROSE: Are you fearful for your life?

PENN: No.

ROSE: You have said to the A.P., and I'm asking now, you have no regrets?

PENN: Yes, I have - I have a terrible regret.

ROSE: What are the regrets?

PENN: I have a regret that the entire discussion about this article ignores its purpose, which was to try to contribute to this discussion about the policy in the war on drugs. Let's go - let's go to the big picture of what we - what we all want. We all want this drug problem to stop. We all want them - the killings in Chicago to stop. We are the consumer. Whether you - whether you agree with Sean Penn or not, there is a complicity there. And if you are in the moral right or on the far left, just as many of your children are doing these drugs. Just as many. And how much time have they spent in the last week since this article come out talking about that? One percent? I think that would be generous.

ROSE: You're saying there's not much dialogue about - as (INAUDIBLE) El Chapo?

PENN: My article failed. Let me be clear, my article has failed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Wow. Powerful words.

CNN's Brian Stelter, senior media correspondent, joining me now about this.

I'm not so sure. That's a lot of coverage, as he's being able to say from his own mouth -

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

BANFIELD: Look the drug policies are failing. There's a problem. We need to fix it. Is - did this article fail?

STELTER: To some extent, the initial reactions to the article were all about process -

BANFIELD: Sure.

STELTER: Not about policy. He wanted the conversation to be about policy. But, frankly, I think Sean Penn should have known better. He is media savvy man. He's been in the public spotlight for decades. He knows he got one of the biggest interviews in many years. He scored a huge scoop but in a very controversial way. He should have known it was going to go down this way.

BANFIELD: Because, think about it, Brian, if P's and Q - if the issue is to solve the war on drugs and solve the problem of drugs -

STELTER: Yes.

BANFIELD: The biggest drug kingpin just got put away. Isn't that a win? And maybe his article he didn't think led to it.

STELTER: Well, I think Sean Penn says no. I think Sean Penn says no and El Chapo would say no.

BANFIELD: Yes.

STELTER: He would say, there's going to be someone else that's going to spring up to take my place.

BANFIELD: Yes.

STELTER: And that this is all about demand, not supply. Now, that's the argument we heard in the article. It's very interesting, though, you know, to hear that perspective. You very rarely hear from a drug kingpin. That's why this was a big coup for Sean Penn. And he said to Charlie Rose, he thinks a lot of other journalists are just jealous.

BANFIELD: Can I ask you also about the - the female actress, del Castillo.

STELTER: Yes.

BANFIELD: Because she has tweeted out some support in the past for this cartel.

STELTER: Right.

BANFIELD: It was sort of - it was hard to tell whether it was support or not, but a lot of people really didn't like her. Is she taking it on the chin for any of this?

[12:30:08] STELTER: You know, we've heard even less than her than we've heard from Sean Penn.

BANFIELD: Yes.

STELTER: The one comment from her is saying that she thinks there's been misleading information out in the press. Nothing else from her.