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Clinton, Sanders Clash as Iowa Vote Nears; Three Americans Vanish in Iraq; New Details on Iran's Detainment of U.S. Sailors; Doctors Now Examining Freed Americans; Interview with Roxana Saberi. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired January 18, 2016 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[09:00:17] PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good Monday morning. I'm Pamela Brown in for Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me today.

We are just two weeks away from voters in Iowa casting the first votes in the 2016 election. And for candidates on both sides of the aisle, the time to close the deal with voters is now.

Democratic field stepping on to the debate stage last night in a South Carolina clash that saw Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders spar over guns, health care and Wall Street. For his part, Sanders said Clinton's sharpened attacks can be based on one thing -- his recent surge in the polls.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As Secretary Clinton well knows, when this campaign began, she was 50 points ahead of me. We were all off 3 percentage points. Guess what? In Iowa, New Hampshire, the race is very, very close.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And while a new CNN poll supports Sanders' claim, showing a tie with Clinton in Iowa, nationwide Clinton still holds a commanding lead as we see.

CNN's Phil Mattingly joins me now with all the highlights.

Phil, good morning to you.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Pamela. A closing argument of sorts last night for the three Democratic candidates. Last night's debate, the last before voters will caucus in Iowa or vote in New Hampshire. Those two early states on the Democratic calendar. And if you thought the compressed calendar was going to change the tone a little bit, well, you were right.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY (voice-over): The gloves --

SANDERS: I think Secretary Clinton knows that what she says is very disingenuous. MATTINGLY: -- are off.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not sure whether we're talking about the plan you just introduced tonight or we're talking about the plan you introduced nine times in the Congress.

MATTINGLY: Just weeks before the first votes are cast, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders putting an exclamation point on a week of sharp sparring on Sunday night.

(CROSSTALK)

CLINTON: The authority were these regulators --

SANDERS: Let me give you an example of how corrupt --

CLINTON: -- to make those decisions.

MATTINGLY: Clinton at one point in the campaign unwilling to even mention Sanders' name, now targeting the Vermont senator's record on guns and how he'll pay for his health care plan.

CLINTON: I have made it clear based on Senator Sanders' own record that he has voted with the NRA, with the gun lobby, numerous times.

MATTINGLY: Sanders moving to blunt both criticisms.

SANDERS: What her campaign was saying, Bernie Sanders, who has fought for universal health care my entire life, he wants to end Medicare, end Medicaid, end the Children's Health Insurance Program. That is nonsense.

MATTINGLY: Shifting on guns a day before the debate.

SANDERS: So what I said is I would relook at it. We are going to relook at it, and I will support stronger provisions.

MATTINGLY: Releasing his single-payer health care plan just hours before taking the stage. Clinton criticizing Sanders for the taxes required to pay for the proposal and it shift away from President Obama's signature achievement.

CLINTON: There are things we can do to improve it, but to tear it up and start over again, pushing our country back into that kind of a contentious debate, I think, is the wrong direction.

SANDERS: We're not going to tear up the Affordable Care Act. I helped write it. But we are going to move on top of that to a Medicare for all system.

A little bit more in taxes, do away with private health insurance premiums. It's a pretty good deal.

MATTINGLY: Sanders going on offense against Clinton's corporate ties.

SANDERS: You've received over $600,000 in speaking fees from Goldman Sachs in one year.

MATTINGLY: Clinton defending not just her stance on Wall Street reform, but President Obama's, as well.

CLINTON: But he's criticized President Obama for taking donations from Wall Street. And President Obama has led our country out of the great recession. President Obama's work to push through the Dodd- Frank -- the Dodd-Frank bill and then to sign it was one of the most important regulatory schemes we've had since the 1930s. So I'm going to defend Dodd-Frank and I'm going to defend President Obama.

MATTINGLY: Sanders deafly turning a question on Bill Clinton's personal life into one of his best moments of the night.

SANDERS: We've been through this. Yes, his behavior was deplorable. Have I ever once said a word about that issue? No, I have not. I'm going to debate Secretary Clinton and Governor O'Malley on the issues facing the American people. Not Bill Clinton's personal behavior.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: Pamela, one of the more interesting elements of the night, Bernie Sanders rattling off a series of good poll numbers, almost coming across downright Trumpian, but really kind of underscoring the urgency of this moment. For Sanders, it's trying to prove that the movement that he has more or less started and created can actually be turned into votes that can win in a general election. For Clinton, trying to halt those poll numbers that have been more or less evaporating in Iowa just two weeks until voters go to the polls or start to caucus in Iowa.

[09:05:07] And Pamela, I can tell you right now, this is only going to get more intense. Both sides ramping up attacks over the next 14 days.

BROWN: Yes. Like you said the gloves are off.

Phil Mattingly, thank you so much.

And while Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders took turns swiping at one another, how will it play among voters? That is the key question. And here to discuss, Chris Kofinis, Democratic strategist and former communications director for John Edwards, and Nomiki Konst, Democratic strategist and executive director of the Accountability Project.

Thank you both for coming on.

Chris, let's start with you. So you hosted this focus group of 30 undecided South Carolina Democrats. What did they tell you at the start of the debate and then what were their thoughts after it ended?

CHRIS KOFINIS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, before the debate started, either they clearly thought that Secretary Clinton was going to win the debate. And in what you saw really from the opening statement was Sanders' message becoming, you know, very powerful. This has been kind of the consistent pattern. We've done these focus

groups in Iowa and across the country. But particularly in Iowa, and now in contrasting with South Carolina, you know, Secretary Clinton clearly has this electability advantage, but Sanders' message, and his populous message, his critiques of Wall Street, really resonating strongly with this group. I mean, he won the group overwhelmingly.

BROWN: So --

KOFINIS: And it was again and again, the only really bright spot for Secretary Clinton was when she was talking foreign policy. The attacks that she made on Senator Sanders just didn't -- not only did they -- they fell flat, they actually gave Senator Sanders the opportunity to reinforce his message again. So does that mean he's going to win South Carolina? No, I don't think so. I can't -- I don't think you can answer that question yet.

But it does give him an opening if he can win Iowa and New Hampshire and he gets his message out here, he could potentially move the undecideds. The real question is, how many undecided are there?

BROWN: Just really quickly, Nomiki, I'm going to get to you in a second. But can you tell us what this group, who was in it? Because we know that Bernie Sanders, particularly his message has been resonating with younger people, were there a lot of young people in this group? Help us understand the makeup of it.

KOFINIS: It was pretty mixed demographically. I mean, we had, you know, 30 folks, all undecided, likely South Carolina voters. All Democrats. There was 14 African-Americans. You know so -- you know, he was resonating with some of the young people, but the part that I will tell you that I found most surprising, because, you know, everyone talks about the built-in advantage that Secretary Clinton has with African-Americans, if you look at the polls, that's clearly the case, especially in South Carolina.

But Senator Sanders' message clearly moved them. Now did it move to the point where they were 100 percent going to vote for him? No, not yet. But it opened the door. And the question becomes, if you can win Iowa and then win New Hampshire, does he -- is he able to get his message out and connect with them? So my guess is what the Sanders campaign is going to do here is they're going to probably go big media wise, to try to get his message out, but he has an opening.

I don't know if he can exploit it. That it's still too early to tell. But it was pretty surprising, at least to me, that he was able to make these kind of -- you know, these inroads and this kind of get this kind of positive reaction from a very different group than let's say in Iowa.

BROWN: OK. And Nomiki, because you look at Hillary Clinton and sort of her strategy last night, what I think struck out to a lot of observers is that she really clung to President Obama's legacy. Let's take a listen to some of her remarks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CLINTON: We have the Affordable Care Act. That is one of the greatest accomplishments of President Obama, of the Democratic Party and of our country.

President Obama has led our country out of the great recession. Senator Sanders called him weak, disappointing. He even, in 2011, publicly sought someone to run in a primary against President Obama.

I'm very proud of the Iran nuclear agreement. I was very pleased to be part of what the president put into action.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, Nomiki, you know, Clinton publicly distanced herself from the president on several issues last year. A lot of people remember that. And then they see this, as sort of about-face. Do you think that this will work to win over the Obama coalition?

NOMIKI KONST, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I think that was her strategy entirely. This is a debate, even though it was a national audience and they were focus groups, and the pundits are all talking, this debate was focused on not just South Carolina but the African-American community in South Carolina which, you know, obviously, President Obama is tremendously popular in the Democratic Party.

But, you know, she is relying on South Carolina to win because if she doesn't get Iowa -- if she doesn't win Iowa and if she doesn't win New Hampshire, or one of those, she needs, as Chris said, she needs South Carolina to win. So all of her messaging was about putting Bernie Sanders on the defensive, aligning him with the NRA on gun control issues, aligning him with the Republicans on being an idealist for single payer health care system.

[09:10:05] You know, whether it worked is questionable. I think that he -- you know, she wanted to make him look inconsistent, which is part of his strategy. You know, he's very consistent person. He's had the same message for 25 years. So by making him look inconsistent, she wanted to align him with the other side. The problem is, he's so strong a message, that he spun, naturally spun, you know, not the sophisticated, contrived spinning, he naturally spun everything back to income inequality, Wall Street reform.

For every single issue, he tied it back to lobbyist. And I don't think she did that effectively. And obviously the focus group showed that. But she needs to rely on these African-American community to win South Carolina, and Bernie Sanders is showing momentum right now in South Carolina with a strong grassroots support and ground support there. So, you know, she's going to double down on this message for the next few weeks.

BROWN: And what really stuck out about this debate, too, is the candidates focused so much more on each other this time and not the GOP candidates.

Chris Kofinis, Nomiki Konst, thank you so much for sharing that perfective. We appreciate it. And happening right now, security operation is underway to rescue

three Americans who have gone missing in Iraq. That's according to Iraqi officials who were urgently trying to locate the men who were reportedly abducted by gunmen in Baghdad, southeastern Dora neighborhood.

CNN senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh is live in Beirut with the very latest -- Nick.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Pam, minimal information as you might expect coming out of U.S. officials at this urgently dangerous and sensitive part of somebody potentially being abducted. It is the first 48 hours that are the most sensitive. But at this stage what we do know is there are three individuals, two of them Iraqi Americans, dual nationality, and one fully pledged American citizen, were in the Dora neighborhood of southeastern Baghdad on Friday afternoon, in what Iraqi Security officials refer to as, quote, "a suspicious apartment."

Make of that what you will. But from that apartment, they were taken by unidentified armed men and taken away in a convoy. So days have passed since then. News emerging late last night and we do not know an awful lot more about these people, apart from the fact they are said to be contractors. Now in Baghdad now that could be anything from security to assisting with communications or even water supplies systems.

But we do know there's urgent steps being taken by Iraqi security officials to try and seal off an area called the al-Saha neighborhood in that part of Dora in Baghdad. Search is happening in that area now.

Interesting note, Pam, the timing of this. They were abducted almost exactly the same time as you began to think that the Iranian nuclear deal would finally be implemented. A lot of the militia that control that part of Baghdad have loyalties to Iran. Purely speculation here, but geopolitically the timing of course lends many to think there could be something more at play, other than perhaps American citizens being caught in perhaps the wrong neighborhood and picked up by criminal elements.

Unclear what's happening but urgent efforts being taken by Iraqi Security Forces and American officials to try and get these three people back to safety now, Pam.

BALDWIN: We hope that they are brought back to safety.

Nick Paton Walsh, thank you so much for that.

And still to come on this Monday morning, one step closer to home and in, quote, "good spirits." The brother of freed American journalist Jason Rezaian speaks to CNN and gives the world the first glimpse of how his brother is doing now that he's out of Iranian prison.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ALI REZAIAN, JASON REZAIAN'S BROTHER: He seems in good spirits. He's, you know, together. He's really -- can't wait to get out there and see people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Up next, the first thing Jason Rezaian asked for after his dramatic release. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:17:04] BROWN: We're getting some new information just into CNN on the release of the 10 U.S. sailors by Iran five days ago. We're now getting a timeline of what exactly happened to the sailors while in Iranian custody.

Barbara Starr is live at the Pentagon. Barbara, what are you learning?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Pamela. Well, a full investigation by the Navy is underway. They did release a statement, giving a preliminary assessment, a timeline if you will, of what happened. And a few new details about all of this. As we saw that video of the sailors on their knees, hands behind their heads, we now know that they were surrounded at that point by four armed Iranian boats. That four boats came out eventually from Iran and surrounded them.

And they -- those boats were armed. The Iranians were armed. They boarded the Navy boats but, yet maintained armed overwatch, if you will, with mounted machine guns before escorting them into shore to Iran's Farsi Island.

We also know that there was what the Navy is calling, what the Central Command is calling, a verbal exchange. No shots fired but a verbal exchange between the U.S. sailors and the Iranians. Very few details about that. Perhaps speaking in not so pleasant a tone back and forth, if you will.

All of the U.S. equipment, all the military gear, the boats, the guns, the ammo, all of it was returned to the United States, the statement says, except, interestingly, for two -- one detail. Two SIM cards for satellite phones were kept by the Iranians. Whether that poses a security threat or not is not clear, perhaps only if it involved encrypted communications, and we don't know the answer to that yet.

So more details about all of this and those sailors continuing to get debriefed and trying to explain exactly why they decided to change course when they were at sea. A course that took them into Iranian waters -- Pamela.

BROWN: Yes. That's still a big question. Barbara Starr, thank you so much.

And this new information coming as three of the four Americans were freed in a historic prisoner swap with Iran, including "Washington Post" reporter Jason Rezaian. They're all undergoing medical checkups at an American military hospital in Germany.

This exchange part of a ground breaking deal 14 months in the making. And CNN just spoke to the brother of Jason Rezaian.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REZAIAN: He seems in good spirits. He's, you know, together. He's really -- can't wait to get out there and see people, meet people. But right now he's got to focus on getting himself better and getting out there.

The first thing he asked for was some information. He feels like he's been starved of information for the last 18 months. Having to live off of the Iranian state TV and getting your news from there isn't where you want to be as a reporter. And he just wants to see what's going on in the world. I think he was surprised and shocked at the amount of attention that this was getting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[09:20:01] BROWN: And according to an internal memo from the "Washington Post," Jason Rezaian tells staffers he is, quote, "a hell of a lot better" than he was 48 hours ago.

All of this as the U.S. slaps Iran with a new set of sanctions. So let's bring CNN senior Washington correspondent Joe Johns. And we're also joined by CNN senior international correspondent Frederik Pleitgen from Germany.

Fred, let's start with you because you're right near the hospital where these newly freed prisoners are being treated. What's the latest there?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Landstuhl Regional Medical Center, Pam, is America's biggest hospital outside of the U.S. And it's a world class facility. And it's interesting because, of course, with these three Americans who have come here, what they're doing is they're taking things very slowly.

It's interesting because Ali Rezaian also said that he hasn't actually been able to see Jason face-to-face yet because they want to let them take their time. They don't want that process to happen too quickly. And that, of course, also shows some of the psychological trauma that these three men face and that they've been through over the past years, some of them.

The Evin Prison, the detention facility that they were in is known to be very hard. It's notorious, even by Iranian standards. And certainly there was a lot of concerns about Jason Rezaian's health while he was in there, his blood pressure. But also the fact that he was in solitary confinement for such a very long time. One of the things the "Washington Post" says was that he was in there for such a long time. And he apparently told them afterwards that it was the toughest thing to deal with, being alone there and being isolated.

And if you look at, for instance, Amir Hekmati, he was in detention for more than four years. So there are some pretty big concerns as far as these men's health is concerned. But nevertheless, of course, more quickly than -- or as quickly as possible, they want to get them together with their loved ones again. And we saw Ali Rezaian is here. Other family members of some of the other men are here as well, waiting to be able to speak to them again, to embrace them again.

That certainly is -- it's a very high priority, and you can imagine that the mood inside the Landstuhl Medical facility where these men are is one that is very, very good, after these men have finally been released after such a long time in custody, Pam.

BROWN: Yes. I imagine emotions are running high. And there was actually a delay before the Americans took off, is that right? Walk us through what happened there.

PLEITGEN: Yes. Yes. An absolutely bizarre twist of events where what happened was, it was announced that the men had been released late on Saturday. And they were supposed to take a flight out of Tehran, which was a Swiss government flight because the Swiss were the intermediaries. But then that flight simply didn't take off. And it took almost a day for that flight to finally take off.

And apparently what happened was that the name of Jason Rezaian's wife and his mother were not on the flight manifest. And this was something where people at the airport, some of the Iranian customs and immigration officials were causing trouble about this and said that these people could not leave. And what it took in the end was a phone call from Secretary of State Kerry to the Iranian Foreign Minister Javad Zarif, telling him, listen, we have a deal, you guys have to stick to a deal.

And at that point, Javad Zarif sent four of his aides to the airport to sort all this out, and then finally that plane was able to take off. It was an Odyssey that took them from Tehran to Geneva to the Ramstein Air Base and finally to here to Landstuhl so you can imagine how happy they are to finally be now getting this medical treatment and to be close to seeing their loved ones again.

BROWN: Yes. So close.

Joe, I want to bring you in just to get the sense of what the reaction has been from the Obama administration and whether these sanctions that were imposed a day after the prisoner swap, what went into play with that? Did the prisoner swap and the timing of that have anything to do with the sanctions on these 11 Iranian individuals?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: There's certainly been some suggestion of that, quite frankly. We do know that the United States did not announce those sanctions until after the Americans had cleared Iranian air space. So it certainly appears there was some type of linkage there.

But we're also getting some details this morning, Pamela, about everything that led up to the release of the American prisoners. Also the nuclear deal that was announced over the weekend. Pretty clear that, as Barbara Starr reported, the problem with the United States sailors actually being held by Iran on the same day as the president of the United States' State of the Union address threatened to cause a big wrinkle.

Secretary of State John Kerry on CNN this morning, talking about his reaction to seeing those pictures of the sailors on the ground, on their knees, with their hands behind their heads. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: I was very angry. I was very, very frustrated and angry that that was released. I raised it immediately with the Iranians.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Did you -- did you send a message essentially that said, if you don't release these sailors, then all bets are off, with the implementation of the nuclear deal?

KERRY: I'm not going to discuss what I said or didn't say, but suffice it to say that I made it crystal clear how serious this was. It was imperative to get it resolved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[09:25:09] JOHNS: The secretary of state has also said that he thought some months ago he had a deal to release those Americans who finally got away over the weekend, but apparently, that deal fell through partly because they couldn't agree on the list of prisoners to swap from Iran -- Pamela.

BROWN: Long time in the making. Joe Johns and Fred Pleitgen, thank you.

And my next guest is an Iranian American journalist who spent 101 days in the same Iranian prison as Jason Rezaian.

Roxana Saberi was arrested in 2009 while working on a book about Iran and she was sentenced to eight years for espionage. Her charge and her sentence were later reduced and she was released. She joins me now for more on this.

Thank you so much for coming on to share your experience with us, Roxana. It is hard to imagine what these Americans must be going through. Walk us through what it's like to realize you are free. What goes through your mind?

ROXANA SABERI, FREED BY IRAN IN 2009: Well, Pamela, you don't really accept, you don't really understand that you're free until you land in another country, outside of Iran, and then you think, well, they can't take me back now. I really am free.

I understood what Ali Rezaian was saying about his brother, that his brother was starved for information because he had been relying on Iranian state-run TV in his cell for information. And I just wanted to read everything I could about what was being said about me. It was kind of surreal to see so much media coverage about me when I was out of prison. And also, I wanted to thank people, just like Jason Rezaian wanted to

thank his colleagues at the "Washington Post" because you realize so many people spoke out for you, and it's very humbling.

BROWN: It was quite an effort. And you were actually in the same prison as Jason Rezaian at a different time. This is a prison that is notorious for its tough treatment of prisoners. How were you treated while you were there?

SABERI: Well, some prisoners do experience physical torture. I did not. But there is something called white torture, which doesn't leave a mark on your body. It can devastate your mind and your conscience. And it's a combination of being put in isolation, like these prisoners were for lengthy periods of time. In solitary confinement, you're cut off from the world, you're threatened by your captors, you might be forced to make a false confession. And these things are all aimed at robbing you of your dignity and making you feel helpless. So that can be very difficult and there can be some lasting effects from that.

BROWN: I have to ask you, one of the prisoners actually stayed behind in Iran after being released from the prison. What is your reaction to that, and would you ever return to Iran?

SABERI: I guess it's everybody's personal choice, if they want to stay. I suppose Mr. Khosravi may have had family there. Maybe he wanted to stay and be with them. I don't know if that will put him in greater danger in the future, if he'll still be monitored by the Iranian authorities. But that is a person's personal decision.

I hope I can return to Iran some day. I still love the country. The Iranian people were great to me. But I don't think that now is a good time, especially since when I came out, I spoke out for some of the political prisoners I left behind.

BROWN: Roxana Saberi, thank you again for coming on and sharing your perspective and your experience with us. Really interesting.

SABERI: Thanks for having me.

BROWN: And up next, an alleged plan to kill a police officer carried out in Ohio. What the suspect's girlfriend is saying about that shooting.

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