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Americans Free; Trump Courts Evangelicals. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired January 18, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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[14:01:00] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being with me on this Monday afternoon. Let's get to it.

Three Americans, accused of espionage and held in this Iranian prison for more than 500 days are free and home bound now after a dizzying run of diplomacy between Iran and the United States. A "Washington Post" reporter, a former Marine and a pastor now in Germany getting medical tests, medical treatment. But, at the 11th hour here, on the tarmac in Tehran, the diplomatic breakthrough nearly hit a major snag after a prisoner's wife and mother were initially not allowed to board the plane.

We also know that two others, including a student, were also freed, although we are told the student's release was not part of this official prisoner swap. As for the other guy, not much is known and he apparently opted to stay in Iran.

Now, this deal comes after more than a year of secret negotiations and the timing is fascinating, labeled by the U.S. as simply coincidental. All of this happened at the very same time the U.S. orchestrated the final hurdle to curb Iran's nuclear program and lift crippling sanctions.

Let's go live now to that U.S. base in Germany and my colleague, Frederik Pleitgen, who is our CNN senior international correspondent.

Fred, a lot to get through. I mean I know this was a prisoner swap and you have new information about the Iranians in the trade. Tell me about them.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely, Brooke. And this is information that came out just a couple of minutes ago in Iran on the semiofficial Farce (ph) news agency. And one of the things that people had always asked was, well, if these Americans get released, what did Iran get in return? And originally what we had heard is that seven duel citizens and one Iranian were released from U.S. prisons. Most of them caught trying to bust the sanctions. And that an additional 14 had also had their charges against them dropped.

But now the Farce news agency is saying that in total some 28 Iranians apparently had - were either released from prison or had the charges against them dropped. Again, we're not sure whether or not this information is accurate. This is coming from Iran's semi-official news agency. But one thing that we do know is at least some of the relatives of those who have now been freed are quite angry at the Iranians because they feel that their loved ones were detained as bargaining chips for the Iranians to try and get people released. Earlier today Jason Rezaian's brother, Ali Rezaian, was here on CNN talking about just that. Let's listen in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALI REZAIAN, JASON REZAIAN'S BROTHER: Certainly it's not morally justified to take innocent people and trade them for people that have done crimes. But the fact of the matter is, is for these folks that have been locked up in prison in Iran for all this time is not morally justifiable either. So I - I appreciate everything the government's done and I'm just really happy that he's home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PLEITGEN: Of course the Iranians, for their part, said that all three individuals had been convicted of espionage in Iran. Again, a very different take on that here among the relatives in Landstuhl, who, of course, first and foremost at this point, are happy that their relatives are back, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Of course. And, Fred, by the way, as you were talking, I just got word in my ear that we now have a photo that we can now show on screen. This is from "The Washington Post." Jason Rezaian and his family, obviously all thrilled to be reunited after too, too long of being apart. So as we look at this, what about the condition of the freed prisoners? How are they?

PLEITGEN: Do you know - yes, you know, it's so interesting to see that photo of Jason Rezaian with his family just now because also his brother, Ali Rezaian, he's on that photo in the background as well. And when we talked to Ali earlier today, he said that while he'd been able to speak to Jason on the phone, he hadn't been able to see him physically yet because the folks here at the medical center didn't want them to have contact that quickly because they believed that the released prisoners could be overwhelmed by having so many family members around them. So clearly now they are in a position to do that.

Earlier today the question came up as to the health of these three. And speaking on behalf of Jason Rezaian, Congressman Jared Huffman said this. Let's listen in.

[14:05:03] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JARED HUFFMAN (D), CALIFORNIA: The indications that we have are that there are no major acute problems right now. That's a relief because, you know, we had heard that their health was declining. In the case of Jason Rezaian, I'd heard he'd lost quite a bit of weight, was under tremendous stress. So we hope to hear more good news, but the indications that we have at this point are that there's nothing acute right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP) PLEITGEN: Nevertheless, Brooke, there is, of course, a protocol of health checks that all of them have to go through at this point in time. It's unclear when they'll be able to return to the United States. It could take a of couple days, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Fred, thank you so much, in Landstuhl, Germany.

You know, you talk about the details we've been getting today. The fits, the starts of these, you know, multiple months, clandestine negotiations. I just spoke with Ambassador Wendy Sherman, former undersecretary of state for political affairs, a top U.S. negotiator on the Iran nuclear deal. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Thank you so much for joining me, Ambassador Sherman, and congratulations. I had read that you said the release of the Americans in Iran was in many ways even more difficult than making this nuclear deal. Can you tell me how many times referring to these 14 months of secret negotiations to bring these Americans home, how many times did this deal almost entirely fall apart?

WENDY SHERMAN, FORMER UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE FOR POLITICAL AFFAIRS: Well, the reason I said it was more difficult is because it was human beings who were involved in this. These were families that I spoke with, that my colleagues spent time with. We heard and understood their heartbreak when we thought about our own families and what we would good through if we were in similar circumstances. So that's what made it so hard.

There were months of very slow process of seeing if there was something possible. Then it became apparent that it was. The president, Secretary Kerry and myself asked Ambassador Bret McGuirk (ph) to lead an interagency team to the secret negotiations. There were fits and starts, sometimes it came together, and then it would fall apart again. As Secretary Kerry has related, after the joint conference of plan of action was agreed in July, the pace picked up. We thought we were very close. It was one of my great regrets when I left government that this was not done yet. But Ambassador McGuirk kept going, as did the interagency team, and, of course, the president and the secretary and we saw the results.

We have Americans who were in Germany recovering and then will be on their way home. We are going to continue our cooperation to ensure that we find out the fate of Robert Levinson and get him home to his family as well. So there's more work to be done, but it was a good day for America, a good day for these families and a good day for diplomacy.

BALDWIN: I wanted to ask about Robert Levinson and we'll get to that. But if you can, as much as you can, take me behind the scenes. You know, you were at the table for so many months. What was said? How did the deal get done? And when did the Iranians at some point come back and say, no, we will only do this deal if you release Iranian prisoners, which were initial demands that were long ago rebuffed by the U.S.? SHERMAN: Well, I'm not going to go into the specific tick tock, but

what I can say about the process is that on the margins of every nuclear negotiation, I would have a meeting just myself and my - one of my colleagues with two Iranian officials. We talked about this for quite some time. It came up through that process that perhaps an exchange was the way to go as has been reported. The Swiss were very instrumental in all of this. They are our protecting power in Tehran since we don't have an embassy. So they were very helpful in this process.

And it became apparent, even before I left, that we needed a separate channel and that we needed an interagency team so that other colleagues in my government would be involved because there were very difficult legal and technical decisions that had to be made here. Law enforcement decisions that had to be made here. And so that team was put together and had these very secret discussions.

Quite frankly, although the rest of the nuclear team may have suspected something was up, they did not know about all of this. We kept it in a very, very tight circle because people's lives were at stake. And it was critical that we do this in a very delicate way. Secretary Kerry engaged with Foreign Minister Zarif on the detained Americans every single time he saw him or talked to him and really made it quite clear that our relationship, which had taken an important step, but just a first step in getting this nuclear negotiation, would be brought to a very difficult place if we could not bring these American citizens home.

[14:10:12] BALDWIN: So with the nuclear negotiations, then suddenly last week there was the - we could call it a curveball, that ten American sailors detained by Iran and then, you know, with the prisoner swap, it was Secretary Kerry who referred to this moment over the weekend sort of as this, you know, Argo moment where Iranian officials almost didn't allow the plane to take off with Jason Rezaian because his wife and mother, you know, weren't allowed at one point on this plane. What happened there?

SHERMAN: Well, you know, this is why these things are so complicated. Instructions don't always get down to everybody who needs to understand them. And it has always been the case that part of our requirement was that - to let Jason go, but that his wife and his mother would be able to come out with him and so that had had had always been part of any understanding for obvious reasons. That's his family. Along with his brother, Ali, who's been such an advocate for Jason, who has been traveling the world trying to get him home.

So, indeed, as the secretary related, at the last moment it appeared someone had not gotten the word and so Secretary Kerry, who was with Foreign Minister Zarif in Vienna, to begin implementation day of the joint conference of plan of action, the nuclear deal, really said to Zarif, what is this? The foreign minister got on the phone, got people engaged back in Tehran and indeed Jason's wife and mother were put on the plane and everyone left Iran.

BALDWIN: Incredible. Incredible. And, of course, on the flip side, I know you've heard the criticisms, first on the Iran nuclear deal. There you are in Tel Aviv. I'm sure you're hearing firsthand about some of the resentment of the deal there. Here in the U.S., Republican critics, not just of the nuclear deal, but of this prisoner swap. Here is Ted Cruz.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Because the result of this, every bad actor on earth has been told, go capture an American. If you want to get terrorists out of jail, capture an American and President Obama is in the let's make a deal business. That's a really dangerous precedent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The let's make a deal business. What would your response be to that?

SHERMAN: I think that probably every American is very glad that these American citizens are home with their families. I'm sure we will see the tears and the good wishes when they finally come back to America after getting some medical care and debriefing in Germany at one of our bases. And I think the president put it quite clearly, this is a very unique set of circumstances. They're not going to be repeated. That indeed we will continue to enforce all of our sanctions, including the sanctions on our trade embargo. We will continue to take enforcement actions when we see violators of those sanctions around state sponsorship of terrorism, around missile related sanctions. In fact, we imposed new sanctions just yesterday.

So this is a very unique set of circumstances. I think - and I think the American people believe that the president of the United States, Secretary Kerry, took the right decision. We had a moment. We had a set of circumstances that allowed these unjustly detained Americans to come home. And we should have seized the moment. And I, for one, am very glad that the president did and I think the American people are glad the president did.

BALDWIN: Ambassador Wendy Sherman, thank you so much.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: We have more on that story, of course. But coming up, a frantic hunt underway right now for three Americans kidnapped in Baghdad. Gunmen taking them away in a convoy. What security forces on the ground there are doing to find them. We have the latest for you out of Iraq.

Also, two weeks from today, folks, the Iowa caucuses. Donald Trump making a massive play for the evangelical vote today at Liberty University. But did his attempt to quote the Bible backfire?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: 2 Corinthians, right, 2 Corinthians 3: 17. That's the whole ballgame. Where the Spirit of the Lord, right? (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:18:55] BALDWIN: You're watching CNN on this Martin Luther King holiday Monday. Thank you so much for being with me. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Listen, checked the calendar. We are now officially two weeks away to the day from the Iowa caucuses. And, today, Donald Trump is taking his pitch directly to evangelicals, promising, quote, "we will protect Christianity." Trump spoke today at Liberty University in Virginia. This is a key stop for Republican hopefuls looking to shore up support among conservatives. It is also the precise spot where rival Ted Cruz announced his candidacy back in the spring. Trump trying to reach out to the religious right, but stumbles when he quotes a passage from 2nd Corinthians.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're going to protect Christianity. And I can say that. I don't have to be politically correct or - we're going to protect it, you know? And I - I asked Jerry and I asked some of the folks, because I hear this is a major theme right here, but 2 Corinthians, right, 2 Corinthians 3:17. That's the whole ballgame. Where the Spirit of the Lord, right, where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. And here there is Liberty College, but - Liberty University. But it is so true.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:20:10] BALDWIN: So that was Mr. Trump earlier today on the campaign trail, a very different tone. Trump and Cruz continue to trade jabs. Trump calling his rival, quote, "a nasty guy." And now this, a warning to Trump from prominent conservative writer and talk show host Mark Levin, who is scolding him for unleashing a furious Twitter attack on Cruz, telling Trump to either cut the crap or he will lose lots and lots of conservatives as supporters.

So let's chat. Ryan Williams, a Jeb Bush supporter and former spokesman for Mitt Romney, joins me, along with CNN politics executive editor Mark Preston.

Fellas, nice to have both of you on.

Ryan, let me just begin with you. To this point about, you know - you know, we all know Donald Trump takes on his opponents no big deal. But, you know, the fact that he's going after, you know, the Tea Party darling, the conservative darling Ted Cruz, especially knowing his audience, especially heading into Iowa in two weeks, is that a smart move?

RYAN WILLIAMS, FORMER SPOKESMAN FOR MITT ROMNEY CAMPAIGN: Well, this was inevitable. Trump and Cruz (INAUDIBLE) for much of the campaign. They were both trying to appeal to the same voters. But we're in the red zone now. We're several weeks out from Iowa and New Hampshire. They realize that it's coming down to the wire. Trump is bleeding support in Iowa. He's trying to maintain his lead in New Hampshire. And he realized that he needs to put some points on the board against Cruz if he's going to head into the voting period strong and hopefully, from his perspective, do well in one of the two early states.

BALDWIN: OK. Mark Preston, do you think that, you know, this will not - not - this will sort of deflect off of Trump, that this won't matter going into Iowa, or will it hit him?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Well, I mean, look, a couple things. One is, I think that Trump will sidestep the little flub that he made down in Liberty today because Trump seems to sidestep any of these controversies whenever he says something - certainly something outrageous or when he flubs a line, he gets beyond it. I think, though, Ryan's correct, when you look at what's happening in these closing weeks right now, it was inevitable that Donald Trump and Ted Cruz would be knocking heads. And, in fact, Brooke, I was in New Hampshire last week with Ted Cruz and Ted Cruz said at the time, I have no intention of going after Donald Trump. Well, only two hours later, Ted Cruz went after Donald Trump. And then, of course, we saw what happened at the debate and now we are in a full blown fight between Ted Cruz and Donald Trump.

And those who can benefit from it is someone like Jeb Bush, who Ryan is supporting, and some of these other folks, such as Chris Christie, others centrists who are looking at these two at the top of the polls and hoping that they destroy each other.

BALDWIN: I'm going to ask you specifically about the flub in another comment he had made earlier in the summer and a question about sort of authenticity as he is, you know, saying this message of protecting Christianity, which I'm sure resonates with a lot of Americans. But, Ryan, I mean, you know, you were with the Romney campaign in '08, in 2012, you know, had successes and failures in the Iowa caucuses. You know, what were the lessons learned?

WILLIAMS: Well, Iowa breaks late. Governor Romney was leading into Iowa heading into I think the final month. We ended up losing by nine points to Governor Huckabee. We approached it very carefully the second time around, not campaigning too hard until the end when we thought we had a chance. It's a caucus and caucuses are very unpredictable. Voters have to show up for a long period of -

BALDWIN: Explain that.

WILLIAMS: Well, it's not like -

BALDWIN: How people do tend to change minds.

WILLIAMS: Correct. I mean it's - the caucus process is a much smaller group of people than a primary. You get really hard-core, prime - party activists who want to come out and spend a lot of time at a caucus, versus a primary, where voters just vote and then leave the voting booth. So they - they make up their minds, they take their time and I think Trump and Cruz realize that they're in this period when opinions are beginning to harden and they need to do what they can to promote themselves and also kind of undercut their primary opponents. BALDWIN: Obviously people, though, are thinking, you know, front and

center on Iowa, when we see how this has been a Cruz and Trump situation. And, Mark, you talk about the 2 Corinthians, 2nd Corinthians flub. I remember from a couple of months ago when he said something about, you know, a little bit of wine, a little bit of cracker, in reference to taking communion. This is - this was Donald Trump, I think, back in July. And he also was on with Tapper, with Jake Tapper just yesterday talking about his relationship with God. Roll it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have great relationship with God. I have great relationship with the evangelicals. In fact, nationwide, I'm up by a lot. I'm leading everybody. But I like to be good. I don't like to have to ask for forgiveness. And I am good. I don't do a lot of things that are bad. I try and do nothing that's bad. I live a very different life than probably a lot of people would think.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Have you heard, Mark, any - any - I'm looking at your face and I see a little smirk, so maybe that answers my question already. But - but I'm wondering, you know, how genuine? Have people called into question, you know, Trump's authenticity when it comes to talking to this important voting bloc?

PRESTON: Well, let me first say that I - it always pains me to talk about what someone thinks about or what they feel about their religious -

BALDWIN: Of course. Fair.

PRESTON: Because deep inside I don't necessarily know.

BALDWIN: It's a private thing. Right.

[14:25:00] PRESTON: But, Brooke, the smirk really goes to this, as you brought up, Donald Trump in July saying that he has a little wine, he has his - his little cracker. At the same time, he also said John McCain wasn't a war hero because he was a P.O.W. And I was with Donald Trump that day in Iowa and I went on TV probably ten times and said Donald Trump's campaign is over, and I was wrong. I was also down in Atlanta -

BALDWIN: A lot of people (INAUDIBLE).

PRESTON: Right. And I was also down in Atlanta when Donald Trump was disinvited from Red State, one of the most prominent gatherings of activists because some of the very harsh things that he had said about Megyn Kelly over at Fox News. I said, Donald Trump's campaign was over, or at least it was deeply in trouble. And I was wrong.

So to your point, the authenticity, I don't think people care, and this is the reason why. I think that Evangelical voters, we often misrepresent them as one issue voters. They're very conservative. They want a strong leader. They're - you know, they're - they're hawks when it comes to the military. They're fiscal conservatives. So while they may not necessarily latch on to everything Donald Trump has to say or perhaps even believe him when he's talking about God, they do like the fact that he's a fighter. And you know what, he never backs down. And I think that's why Donald Trump is doing so well now in this Republican primary.

BALDWIN: OK. Ryan, I know you're a Jeb guy. You're a Jeb supporter. You know, we talk so much about Cruz and Trump. Who do you think, in this first massive go around, who survives? Who hangs in there?

WILLIAMS: Well, I obviously support Governor Bush and I think he's going to do very well in some of the early states, New Hampshire in particular. I think you're going to see that -

BALDWIN: He will?

WILLIAMS: I think there's opportunity for others to do well, but I think you're going to see the field winnow right after New Hampshire. A number of candidates will get out. You'll see a consolidation of the - the kind of responsible, rational Republicans. They're looking for a strong candidate after that heading into the other states. But I think that the field will be very different after New Hampshire heading into South Carolina.

BALDWIN: All right, Ryan Williams and Mark Preston, thank you both so much on this Monday.

Coming up next here on CNN, a police officer in Ohio shot and killed just as a woman calls 911 saying her boyfriend told her he was on the hunt to kill a cop. That story, next.

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