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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Supreme Court Takes up Immigration Actions; Amir Hekmati Speaks. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired January 19, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[12:00:14] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

We're going to begin with this breaking news. As if immigration weren't destined to be a huge issue in the 2016 election, the Supreme Court of the United States just guaranteed it. The justices have agreed to take up a challenge from Texas and 26 other states to the reforms that President Obama ordered unilaterally more than a year ago.

You may recall those executive actions where he sought to spare the undocumented parents of children born in the United States from being deported, and to even grant them work permits. He also sought to spare children born outside of the United States, but brought here to this country unknowingly, by their parents. Now, the legal battle started almost instantly, and our justice correspondent Pamela Brown joins me live now to preview this final battle.

So, walk me through what happened today and what these challenges really mean?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: It's significant, Ashleigh, and this will be one of the biggest cases of the Supreme Court term because essentially the high court will take up what has been the centerpiece of President Obama's second term, the immigration policies, this program that the president announced more than a year ago allowing parents of legal citizens and young adults who came as children the stay in the U.S. and to apply for these programs that could give them work authorization and other benefits. This is 4.3 million undocumented immigrants.

Now, this was immediately challenged by Texas and 25 other states. You may remember they said this violated the law. That this was outside the scope of the president's executive authority. And basically they said, you may be able to defer action, but you can't change immigration law. The president came back and said, that's wrong, this is within my prosecutorial discretion when it comes to immigration, and so it appealed to the high court. And it decided today that it will take this up. And it's a big deal, too, Ashleigh, because had the high court decided not to take up the case, that means the program would continue to be blocked in Texas and other states. BANFIELD: So, what's the White House saying other than the irony of

this being a victory, when you hear that, you know, someone's executive action is actually going to be challenged and then heard at the high court, it doesn't sound like a victory. But for the White House, this really is a victory. What's their response to this?

BROWN: It is, and they're saying, look, we are pleased with this because, again, this gives them an opportunity for the program to continue to go forward in Texas and these other states, where it is currently blocked, and also, you know, these immigrants, these undocumented immigrants who are eligible for the programs, have been in this legal limbo, so it's hoping that the court will clear everything up.

And it released a statement today, the White House, saying, "like millions of families across the country, immigrants who want to be held accountable, to work on the books, to pay taxes and to contribute to our society openly and honestly, we are pleased that the Supreme Court has decided to review this immigration case."

And even though it is pleased, the stakes still very high for the Obama administration. And also, Ashleigh, this is coming right at the heart of the election season. This is something we've heard the candidates say on the trail. The Republican candidates saying, you know, that the president went outside of his scope of constitutional authority. So it's certainly a hot topic and now the high court will review the case.

BANFIELD: All right, Pamela Brown, thank you for that. If you could standby for a moment.

When Pamela was giving the White House response, there's this as well from the White House. "We're confident that the policies will be upheld as lawful." Not everybody agrees with that statement.

Joining me now with their insights are Eric Segall, constitutional law professor at Georgia State University, attorney and immigration commentator Raul Reyes, and also joining us by telephone, "New Yorker" writer and CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.

Jeffrey, if I can begin with you. There is extreme polarization - I don't have to remind you or anybody else who's watching right now - on the high court. Are there any expectations at this point as to what those nine will do?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST (via telephone): Well, I think predictions are always difficult at the Supreme Court, but I think this case in particular should - is a difficult one to predict because it scrambles the usual ideological position. Liberals usually want a broad conception of standing of the right to sue, so they would, you would think, would be in favor of Texas's right to sue. Conservatives usually like a broad conception of executive power. So you would think they would be in favor of President Obama's unilateral action of immigration. But here, you have the liberals arguing, the administration arguing, that Texas doesn't have the right to sue, and you have conservatives arguing that President Obama doesn't have the right to this action. So how those distinctions will play out in front of the court I think is very difficult to predict.

[12:05:27] BANFIELD: So what you're saying, Jeffrey, is, effectively, there will be this argument about standing. Can you even say that you are somehow injured, Texas and the other states? Do you have an injury that actually allows you to be the person, the state, to challenge this? Is that what you're saying, standing alone?

TOOBIN: That's right, because this is an executive order that applies to individuals. And these individuals who have children legally in the United States can go to the immigration and - can go to the immigration office and say, look, I want to get certified as legal. The administration says, that has nothing to do with the state. The states are not affected by that. It makes no difference to the states, so they have no right to go into court and sue to stop. That's their argument.

BANFIELD: Well, and for the record, Texas brought this action by saying, we are injured. We have to issue all these additional driver's licenses. There's a cost to that. There's an administrative aspect to it. So that's the argument.

Let me go to the issue of merit, because if we can get past standing, then we get to merit. And so far the contents of this action, they haven't been litigated. The actual merit hasn't been litigated. So, Eric, what about this notion that critics say this is outside the president's constitutional authority? With your background, is it?

PROF ERIC SEGALL, GEORGIA STATE UNIVERSITY COLLEGE OF LAW: Well, no - well, I don't think it is. But that issue has not yet been litigated anyway. The lower trial court and the court of appeals in Texas did not resolve any constitutional issues about the president's immigration policy. The most interesting thing that happened today, and I think Jeffrey would likely agree with this, is the court added a question to the issues that were already involved in the case. They do that sometimes, but it's relatively rare.

But the question they added today cut right to the heart of the constitutional issue, does the president have the power, even if he was somehow authorized, to enter this kind of policy? And that's a new issue in this case that has not been decided by any lower court judges.

And I would just add one thing to the standing conversation. Justices Scalia and Thomas would normally be the kind of justices who would think Texas would not have standing in this case. So I think this whole controversy -

BANFIELD: Wow (ph).

SEGALL: Because they take a very, very narrow view of standing generally speaking. So I think their desire to do harm to the president politically and their intellectual commitments to standing are going to conflict in this case, and that's going to be very fascinating.

BANFIELD: That is, without question, extremely fascinating. And then now let's just talk about the actual logistics of this, Raul. Let's say that the administration prevails, then they've got seven months until the end of Obama's term to effectively jam this policy in and get it up and running. How many people - how many people are going to trust that it will stay running after the elections, and that they should put themselves into the public eye and come out of the shadows with the risk that seven months later it could all be up in flames?

RAUL REYES, ATTORNEY, COMMENTATOR: Exactly. That's one of the real risks that has - that immigration rights advocates have seen as this processes has dragged on. The longer this court battle has grown - has gone, we're seeing more and more undocumented people starting to worry, starting to feel confused, starting to wonder whether it's worth the risk to come forward at the appropriate time to sign up for these programs. That said, some of the Obama administration officials that I've spoken with said they plan to implement this. That they - remember, they were close to being - setting it up before the injunction came forward. They say that they're ready to go as soon as the court allows - if and when the court allows it. They also point to the DOCA program upon which both of these are based. That was set up in about six months and it was running right away.

So the window of time that people have to come forward is much more narrow. And the big "if" is the fact that this is a temporary program. A new president, whether it was democrat or Republican, could very well cancel this. And there's so much confusion in the immigrant community over what to do, but immigrant right advocates are definitely pushing back, holding seminars, reaching out and telling people, get your papeles, your documents, you papers that you have to prove the length of time you've been in this country and be ready, because they're very confident based on legal precedent, the actions of past presidents, and just their own analysis of the case that it will indeed be held up by the court.

BANFIELD: And I'll guarantee you a lot of them will get those papers ready and they will watch so carefully what happens in November.

REYES: Right. Right.

BANFIELD: Thank you to all three of you, Raul Reyes, Eric Segall and Jeffrey Toobin, who was with us by telephone.

REYES: Thank you.

[12:10:06] BANFIELD: Coming up next, possible symptoms include skin lesions, hair loss, vision and memory loss, depression, anxiety. Sounds like the disclaimer for one of those drug commercials in TV. It is not. It's actually what researchers say can happen if you drink the water in Flint, Michigan, where protesters and lawsuits are starting to pour in.

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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN break news.

BANFIELD: I want to take you right away on this breaking news to Landstuhl Regional Medical Center in Germany, where we are now seeing, for the first time, some of the first images of at least two of the prisoners, the American prisoners, who were brought out of Iran. Let's listen in.

[12:14:59] AMIR HEKMATI, AMERICAN PRISONER FREED BY IRAN: I just want to thank everybody for all the support. I feel extremely lucky. Alive for the first time in a long time. And very humbled at everybody's support, from the president, to Congress, to my fellow Marines and especially my family, who have really gone through so much throughout this time. I hope to give more details in the future. We just - we're still - this is all still surreal and we're just soaking it all in right now. But there is a lot that I have to say about the experience and what happened, and I hope to bring that to the American people and the world. But I'm very thankful. And God bless you all. Really, I appreciate all your help.

QUESTION: How does it feel to be back, Amir?

HEKMATI: It feels great. I feel very lucky. Like I said, I feel alive for the first time. It's like being born again. And I just really feel proud to be an American.

QUESTION: How bad was it in there?

HEKMATI: Well, it wasn't good. I've spoke to that before. I was luckily able to get some of my stances on how - on my treatment from prison and I do want to talk about that in more detail, and I will.

QUESTION: What was your biggest surprise once you got out?

HEKMATI: You know, I was at a point where I had just sort of accepted the fact that I was going to be spending 10 years in prison. So this - this was a surprise and I just feel extremely blessed to see my government do so much for me and the other Americans.

QUESTION: How much warning did you get that you were going to be released?

HEKMATI: Nothing, really. They just came one morning and said, pack your things. So -

QUESTION: Did you believe them?

QUESTION: What -

HEKMATI: No. Absolutely not. And I did not relax until we were outside of Iranian air space. But it's finally starting to become a reality to me.

QUESTION: Did you hurry (ph)?

QUESTION: When do you hope - when do you hope to get home, Amir? And what's the first thing you're going to do?

HEKMATI: That's a good question. I hope to get home soon. I really want to see my family and be back on land - in the land of the free, back home. QUESTION: What did you say to your family when you saw them for the

first time after all those years?

HEKMATI: Well, I've only seen my brother-in-law and my sister so far. And we were speechless for a while. But I've said a lot, and we still have a lot to talk about.

QUESTION: Hugs and tears?

HEKMATI: Absolutely.

QUESTION: Amir, how - do you know how many people were campaigning for you and how did you feel when you found out how big the movement was to get you back out and people keeping it in the public light?

HEKMATI: Well, I don't know. And I still don't know. I just know that everyone from the president to the Congress, even the Iranian officials who were our captors essentially were amazed and had asked us, why is it that they're, you know, working so hard for you? And I just said, well, that's America and they love their citizen. And even the other Iranian prisoners were really moved, you know, by all the support.

But there's still a lot that I don't know. And it's all coming - coming to me slowly. Our communications, obviously, for the first two - almost two and a half year, I had - I had very little communication, if any. And we were - when I did finally get access to a telephone, I wasn't able to get all of the details because of the sensitive situation that I was in. But I just know that so many people had supported us, and I'm extremely humble and grateful.

QUESTION: Did you hurry?

QUESTION: What was it like when you guys were waiting for that plane, because there was a big delay from when you were supposed to leave to when that flight actually took off, right?

HEKMATI: Yes, it was very nerve wracking. I was worried that maybe the Iranian side was going to make new demands in the last minute or that the deal wasn't going to work out. So up until the last second, we were all worried and concerned. We were just put in a very small room and we had no telephone or access to any information. We kept being told that we're going to be take off in two hours, and two became six, became ten, so a total of almost two and a half days it was really nerve wracking. But when we finally got to see the Swiss ambassador, Ambassador Haas (ph), who really did a lot for us, and Mr. Mia (ph), and the Swiss government, we just felt an immense pressure come off our shoulders. And when we finally got on the plane, that's when we knew that we were (INAUDIBLE).

QUESTION: Amir, did your Marine training kick in during any of this time?

HEKMATI: I think so. I didn't want to let my Marines - fellow Marines down, and the reputation of the Marine Corps. So I tried my best to, you know, keep my head up and withstand all the pressures that were put upon me, some of which were very inhumane and unjust. And then hearing about some of my fellow Marines supporting me really gave me the strength to put up with over four years of some very difficult times that me and my family went through. So I'm grateful.

QUESTION: How are you (INAUDIBLE) now?

HEKMATI: Semper Fi to all the Marines out there.

[12:20:01] QUESTION: You see -

QUESTION: How are you feeling in yourself physically now?

HEKMATI: Right now I feel great. I have so much energy. Like I said, this - I feel alive for the first time. All of - the people out there who have been in prison, especially the ones who are in prison unjustly, I'm sure the other Americans feel the same way. It takes such a toll on you. So to be out now with Congressman Kildee, who's done so much, and my family, it's just amazing. You can't - can't describe the feeling.

QUESTION: How are your fellow Americans who were on board?

HEKMATI: I'm sorry.

QUESTION: How were your fellow Americans who were on board the fight?

HEKMATI: Ecstatic. Happy. Anxious to get home.

QUESTION: That - that moment, as you -

HEKMATI: Nobody really believed it. Everybody was just sort of in a state of disbelief. And we still are.

QUESTION: Apparently there were cheers as the flight left Iranian air space.

HEKMATI: As soon as we got out of Iranian air space, the champagne bottles were popped and the Swiss are amazing, their hospitality. Chocolates. Veal was served. And we were on a private jet that usually the foreign minister of Switzerland or the ambassador uses. So this - they really did an excellent job, and we thank them for the hospitality.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: God bless them.

QUESTION: You seem to well, Amir. People will be stunned and delighted.

HEKMATI: I am well. And I - I'm only going to get better, I hope, and this is really been an exceptional time for me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to get some - we're going to get some rest now. We need to get back home.

QUESTION: Thank you very much.

QUESTION: Thank you, Amir.

HEKMATI: Thank you, everybody.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you for everything.

BANFIELD: Amir Hekmati and his family and a congressman joining him at Landsthl Regional Medical Center right at Ramstein Air Base, where he has been recovering and has been debriefed after spending four years as a prisoner inside Iran. He was part of a prisoner swap. They have spent a couple of days in transit, and Amir Hekmati saying he can't wait to get back to Michigan, where he is headed right now.

Key to what he just said, I am well. They came in one morning and said, pack your things. He knew so little about the outside world having been exposed to so little information and when on a telephone being censored. So all of this has come as such a surprise to him. He still says he has a lot to learn about the years, what was happening on this side of the oceans, and how the efforts unfolded to free him and those fellow prisoners as well.

He was detained back in 2011 because he was in Iran to visit his grandmother, but he was accused of espionage. He's an Arabic and Persian linguist and he was actually charged in 2012. So this is quite an amazing moment. Our first pictures, our first sound from Amir Hekmati.

We are waiting to hear from Jason Rezaian, who we were expecting as well - we might hear from today - who also has been joined by his family at Ramstein in Landstuhl.

I want to go to our Fred Pleitgen, who's standing by. He is live on location. He listened to that news conference. Really just miraculous the condition that Amir is in given what he's been through, Fred.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Yes, absolutely. I mean he was very strong. His voice was very strong. His statements were very strong. And it was interesting for him to, you know, sort of go into a little bit how tough it was inside that Iranian prison, how harsh those conditions were, but yet how intent he was on not allowing that to break him, and how he said that it was also his training in the Marines that also helped him get past all of this. So certainly he is someone who's a very strong individual, someone who clearly went through some very tough times.

I mean, Ashleigh, we have to keep in mind that on top of the fact that he was incarcerated there at Avin (ph) prison, there was a time when he was sentenced to death there in Iran until that sentence was commuted. So it really wasn't looking good for him at all. Still, he says that is not something that ever caused him to give up. That he remained strong. That also he found out that there were people campaigning for him. That that's something that even his Iranian captors found absolutely remarkable.

So in his words, someone who says he is, you know, very glad to be back, very proud to be an American and someone looking forward to going back to America as fast as possible. Of course he knows he has to go through these protocols here, both the psychological and physical tests to get back on track, but he wants to go back to America as fast as soonable (ph) -- as fast as possible and continue on with his life.

BANFIELD: I can imagine that. Any word from him at all as he was walking away from the microphones about those fellow prisoners who were also swapped. I'm thinking about, you know, Jason and Sayed. Are they coming out soon? Will they be talking to us as well?

PLEITGEN: That's - yes, that's not - that's not clear at this point in time. There was talk of Jason possibly coming out. We're not sure whether or not that is actually going to happen. They'll do that on their own time when they feel they want to. He, obviously, has contact with them. He also said that he believes they want to go back to the U.S. as fast as possible as well.

We know from their representatives, from friends and family close to them, that they are also in good spirits. But, of course, all of them going through that protocol right now and certainly they're going to come out and say some words in their own time when they're ready to.

[12:25:11] BANFIELD: Yes, don't leave me yet, Fred. I just wanted to recap something that he said about the flight out of Iranian air space on a private jet, he said, organized by the Swiss. That champagne corks were popped, veal was served, chocolates were served. But he - he also said that he remembered during his four years a very difficult incarceration that he is a Marine, and that he did not want to let down his follow Marines. It's just remarkable to think that he's been through this ordeal, and the others as well, and yet this deal has freed him, yet Nosratollah decided to stay behind. That fifth prisoner decided to stay behind upon being free. Did he enlighten anybody about that?

PLEITGEN: No, there was absolutely nothing said about that. I'm not even sure if he spoke to Nosratollah Khosravi (ph). It was interesting also when the president spoke about this deal and how it came to be and how these sort of final days before the deal actually happened came to be. He also said that this Nosratollah Khosravi, he's not someone whose case was in the public eye very much. He's not someone who where every much is known about him. And it really is unclear at this point why he decided not to go on that flight. Whether he wants to leave Iran at some other point. Whether he wants to stay there. It really is unclear. But certainly from what Amir was just saying, it seemed as though the other three, who was - who were on that plane, were ecstatic once the plane left Iranian air space. And, of course, you know, he also described the fact that it was quite nerve-racking as they were waiting for that flight to depart, those hitches where it was unclear whether Jason Rezaian's wife and his mother were going to be able to fly, whether that could get sorted out. Of course that's something at - at the end of a four year detention that Amir had to go through, to then have those last couple of hours be such a nerve- racking experience, it certainly takes a very strong personality to be able to persevere through that and then to be standing here in this strong way. BANFIELD: Nerve-racking right up to the last second, as he just said.

Fred Pleitgen, thank you for that. Fred is reporting at Ramstein Air Base right outside the - the medical center in Landstuhl, where you can see right there, that's Amir Hekmati addressing reporters for the first, and we're guessing last time, before grabbing a flight as fast as he can back to Michigan where he and his family live. The first images and sound from one of those prisoners freed from Iran. We are going to continue to update you just as soon as we see Jason Rezaian, who we are expecting as well to address reporters any time as well. So stay tuned.

Meantime, up next, back to one of those top legal stories today, the lawsuits over lead in the drinking water in Flint, Michigan. Did the top brass in that state know that the taps were dangerous? That's what they're alleging. Could this kind of thing stick in court? We're going to talk about it in a moment.

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