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Wolf

Interview with Rick Santorum; Breaking Down the Presidential Race; Report: Putin "Probably" Behind Spy's Death. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired January 21, 2016 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:32:45] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Less than two weeks until the Iowa caucuses, many presidential candidates, they're feeling the crunch right now, especially when you look at all the poll numbers out there. In the CNN poll of polls of Iowa Republicans, Republican presidential candidate, Ted Cruz, leading the pack with 27 percent. Donald Trump isn't far behind, 25 percent. When you drop down, candidates such as Jeb Bush, only 5 percent. Rick Santorum won the Iowa caucuses four years ago with only 1 percent.

The former Senator joining us.

You got a smile on your face. But only 1 percent, that number's not good.

RICK SANTORUM, (R), FORMER SENATOR & FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I ended up with 26 percent of the vote four years ago.

BLITZER: And you won?

SANTORUM: And I won the Iowa caucus. At the time the poll was taken between years ago, I was at 2 percent.

I don't think polls and caucuses are necessarily very active to begin with. I think they've proven over time they've been accurate at all. I don't agree with Rand Paul on a lot but I agree with the fact you're going to see a real mix-up going down the stretch here and you're going to see some folks come from the back of the pack and make the charge and I plan to be one of them.

BLITZER: You have the ground game in place to bring your supporters --

(CROSSTALK)

SANTORUM: I'm doing 80 town hall meetings between now and the caucuses. And we'll be -- I just came from Des Moines. I'll be heading back there in a day and a half. We're going to be just nonstop going and meeting with folks. I'll tell you what, we're not getting the big Trump crowds but when they walk out, about 90 percent are not only with me but most of them are signing up to go to the caucus and speak on my behalf. And that's a big deal.

BLITZER: Did you try to get Sarah Palin -- you know Sarah Palin. You worked with her --

(CROSSTALK)

SANTORUM: I saw Sarah in Las Vegas at the CNN event. But I --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Our debate?

SANTORUM: Yes. See, Sarah -- I like Sarah, I respect Sarah, but we don't have that close of a relationship and I haven't reached out to her.

BLITZER: You were both contributors at FOX News so you must have worked together from time to time.

SANTORUM: No, we never did.

BLITZER: Really?

SANTORUM: No, again, I have a lot respect for her but we didn't interact that much.

BLITZER: You never aggressively tried to get her endorsement?

SANTORUM: I think you'll find, and you ask around, I don't ask anybody for endorsements.

BLITZER: Why?

SANTORUM: Because I don't think they matter. I don't. I'd rather go out there and be my own person. All these folks who need people to vouch for them. I ran four years ago. People know I'm a consistent conservative. They know the values I represent. They know I'm a fighter. I don't need anybody else to come and vouch for the fact of my record. Unlike a lot of these guys, they don't have a record, so they need people to vouch for them. I have a record. I've run before. As you were talking earlier, I won 11 states. I fought here in Washington, D.C., and broke up, you know, the establishment here in this town and got a lot to show for it. I don't really need anybody to say here's what this guy's record is.

[13:35:29] BLITZER: Is Trump qualified to be commander-in-chief?

SANTORUM: I think you need experience in anything you do. If I was being interviewed by Trump to be the CEO of his company, he'd say, well, what's your relevant experience to do this job? I would say that with frankly most of the people in this -- who are at the top of the field, they have very limited experience. It's not just Donald Trump but it's Cruz and Rubio. All of them have relatively little experience. And I know people want someone to channel their anger and bust things up in Washington. But you might want to go with someone who's proven that they'll do that as opposed to someone who says they're going to do it. I've said I was going to do it. I went and did it and succeeded. I think that's the differentiator for us. BLITZER: What would you ask Hillary Clinton if you were at the town

hall that CNN's televising Monday night with the Democratic presidential candidates in Iowa and you stood up and said, Madam Secretary?

SANTORUM: Madam Secretary, the Pew Foundation last week joined the Cato Institute, which is a Libertarian think tank, they joined the Cato Institute on a conference on how to un-do and re-do health care in America. Pew was a huge supporter of the Affordable Care Act. Supported it, helped promote it. They now announced it's broken, it can't be fixed. If honest liberals realized this system is broken, why are you embracing it? Why are you going to continue to condemn people to high premiums, high deductibles, losing their coverage? This is not working. Why are you still embracing it?

BLITZER: What would you ask Senator Bernie Sanders, who's doing remarkably well?

SANTORUM: Why would you embrace a health care system that mirrors the Veterans Administration, government-run health care, when we know, unfortunately, if we can't take care of those we owe so much to, our veterans, that have such a powerful support network around this country to make sure they're getting the best care, if the V.A. can't do that for veterans, what makes you think that government-run health care for everybody is going to be any better than the V.A. care?

BLITZER: His argument is he wants Medicare, which works for seniors. I assume you agree with that. He likes Medicare. He wants it to be expanded to be for everyone.

SANTORUM: It will be a government-run health care system. Part of Medicare is government run, part is private sector. The drug program is more private-sector oriented. It is the only part of Medicare coming in under budget. I have no -- obviously, I'm a supporter of Medicare but I think we need to change Medicare to bring in more market forces, to bring in more patient quality and control. Bernie Sanders wants to go the other direction. I think that's a fundamental difference.

BLITZER: One final question, for you it's Iowa, you have to do well in Iowa to stay in this race, right?

SANTORUM: We will. I'll be one of the guys you're talking about on caucus night.

BLITZER: Rick Santorum, thanks very much for being here.

SANTORUM: You bet.

BLITZER: For more on Rick Santorum and all the presidential contenders, head other to CNN politics.com.

Coming up, Senator Ted Cruz facing growing backlash from members within his own party. What's behind the growing dissent? We'll discuss right after this.

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[13:42:45] BLITZER: Former Republican presidential nominee, Bob Dole, says Ted Cruz is the candidate nobody likes. Chris Christie is called out for not hammering Donald Trump. Democrats remind voters that Bernie Sanders described himself as a Socialist.

Let's break it all down with our panel. CNN political commentator, Amanda Carpenter is joining us, and she's also a former communications director for Senator Ted Cruz; and Democratic strategist, Doug Hattaway is also the former adviser to the 2008 Hillary campaign, a former Al Gore campaign spokesman.

Amanda, some establishment Republicans appear to be closing ranks with Donald Trump. In an article in "The Week" magazine, it lays out the case that Trump could actually run the table in the primary election season, win both New Hampshire and Iowa earlier. How do you see the primary campaign at this point playing out?

AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, this is a really surprising development, to see guys like Bob Dole come out and say they would -- they would support Donald Trump over Ted Cruz. That said, there was a really interesting article in "The New York Times" today written by Jonathan Martin where he interviewed Bob Dole and other members of the donor class, establishment class, whatever you want to call it where they essentially make the case that we think Donald Trump is lobbyable. He will deal us in. We can influence Trump. We can't to that with Ted Cruz. Which I think really bolsters Ted Cruz's candidacy. It makes it awkward for people like Bob Dole to be cuddling up to Trump but this is a crazy election. So we're going to see where it comes down. But there really is a struggle for the heart and soul of the Republican Party. We all thought somebody like Jeb Bush was going to be the establishment candidate. Now it's looking more and more like Donald Trump will be.

BLITZER: Doug, is Donald Trump the Republican establishment candidate?

DOUG HATTAWAY, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: That would be a surprise. I think the biggest thing -- trouble facing Trump right now is the fact that he is the presumptive winner. If you follow the history of these early states, as you guys do, you know that the polls don't predict the outcomes. You just talked to Rick Santorum who was in single digits and then came back to win Iowa. If you look at history, any of these candidates on the slate could actually score a win or come in a strong second, or people even get credit for coming in third. So Trump has been riding so high for so long, he's kind of been on a high horse, and I think it's easy -- or I think the danger is expectations are so high and he doesn't perform as well as he himself has been saying he will. He could be in for quite a rude awakening.

[13:45:22] BLITZER: What happens, Amanda, if Donald Trump wins in Iowa? As we know, your candidate, Senator Cruz, he's spending an enormous amount of effort to win Iowa.

CARPENTER: Well, here's what happens. I just want to see a conservative win this race. I think Cruz is well positioned to be that person. If Trump does win Iowa, I agree, the expectations are sky high. If he doesn't have a double-digit win, that will be a story.

The question is, you know, can he keep going in New Hampshire. He's just such an untraditional candidate. The polls that he's enjoyed so far just seem to rewrite the playbook. So if those polls don't turn out to be true, that will be the rudest awakening of Iowa. I think this is going to be a long game. I think we'll go well into Super Tuesday before we have a nominee. And can Donald Trump take knocks along the way? Can he sustain not winning by double digits? Can he sustain not being the front-runner that he's been for so long? Seeing how he handles those kinds of blows will be the most interesting.

BLITZER: Doug, gloves seem to be coming off rather impressively between the Democratic front-runners, Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton. They're both trying to differentiate their positions. Is there time to -- for caucus goers, in New Hampshire, to really appreciate what's going on, come up with a firm decision?

HATTAWAY: I think so. We have the benefit of only having two candidates to sort through. One of the reasons why these polls are not predictive in these early states is in primaries people really are taking their time to sort out between the candidates on issues, on temperament, on lots of things. Whereas, in the general election, most of the outcomes are predictable according to people's party affiliation. I think people -- I've know New Hampshire very well, having worked up there for quite a bit over the years. I hope people will take their time. We've got two strong candidates who obviously have a lot of appeal across the party. They're trying to differentiate themselves on some issues. Voters have a lot -- I think a lot of things on people's plates that they're looking at here in terms of experience, who can take over in complicated times, who's striking the right tone in terms of people's anger with Washington, and uncertainty about the future. There's a lot to it beyond just the issue scorecards.

BLITZER: From a Republican perspective, Amanda, you're a conservative, who would be a stronger challenger to the Republican nominee, Bernie Sanders or Hillary Clinton?

CARPENTER: Oh, I think Republicans without a doubt would rather face Bernie Sanders, if only for the fact that Hillary Clinton enjoys such a long network of support among the Democratic Party. She's going to have more resources and staff familiar with the way things go than Bernie Sanders probably ever will. Just from that perspective, Bernie Sanders is better. But that said, I think Hillary Clinton is extraordinarily vulnerable, and that's shown by the surge that Bernie Sanders had enjoyed. She can't put away Bernie Sanders, a guy who's campaigning on trillions and trillions of new taxes. That doesn't speak to the appeal of Bernie Sanders. That speaks to the weakness of Hillary Clinton.

BLITZER: Amanda carpenter, Doug Hattaway, thank you very much for joining us.

HATTAWAY: Thank you. BLITZER: Up next, a new report on the high-profile assassination of a former KGB spy could put Russian President Vladimir Putin in a tough spot. We'll update you on what's going on right after this.

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[13:52:58] BLITZER: The murder of a former Russian spy continues to haunt the Russian government. Now a new report from the British government says Russian President Vladimir Putin probably approved the assassination of a former KGB agent who was living and working in Britain. Alexander Litvinenko died in London in 2006 three weeks after drinking some tea laced with Polonium 210, a rare, highly toxic chemical.

CNN's international diplomatic editor, Nic Robertson, is in London. He is following this story closely.

Nic, this is a very expensive report released. What are the findings?

NIC ROBERTSON, INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It's a strong report, 327 pages. It says he was murdered by two former Russian agents by poisoning the tea with a toxic chemical. Some of the highlights point out it has to be said there's no smoking gun that directly links President Putin to the murder, but it says that he was probably responsible for authorizing this assassination. It says that the chemical can only be made at a nuclear reactor, which are controlled by a state agency. The only way that state agency could have transferred the chemical to the intelligence services to be used as a poison would require authorization from above the intelligence service, and so this is one of the strong reasons they say that President Putin must have been involved in the authorization of this state-sponsored assassination -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Earlier today, his widow, Marina, called for the expulsion, Nic, of all Russian intelligence operatives from the U.K. as well as sanctions and a travel ban for President Putin. You just had had a conversation with her. What was it like?

ROBERTSON: She was a bit disappointed because they haven't followed through. They have frozen the assets of the murder suspects and issued a European arrest warrant and put them on an Interpol notice. She's disappointed in that regard but she holds President Putin directly responsible for not turning them over to British authorities. This is what she told me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[13:55:27] MARINA LITVINENKO, WIDOW OF ALEXANDER LITVINENKO: Putin himself personally protected them. He himself, nobody, himself, Mr. Putin, it's not (INAUDIBLE). He provided him with immunity. He said says Russia doesn't extradite for injustice. He protected him and he granted him to be a member of parliament, which means he took all this responsibility.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: A fascinating story. Nic, you're going to stay on top of it. Thanks very much for that update.

That's it for me. Thanks very much for watching. The news continues right here on CNN after a quick break.

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