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California Prison Escape; Michael Bloomberg for President?; Democratic Presidential Forum. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired January 25, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:03]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And that everyone, everyone talks about it.

Stephanie Elam, that echoes what a lot of people have said to me. Thank you very much in Park City, Utah.

Let's continue on, shall we?

Top of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being with me.

We are exactly one week away from the first vote of the presidential primary season. Tonight, three of the candidates get their last chance to make their cases to you, the public.

And so let's go straight there to Des Moines, Iowa, to my colleague Brianna Keilar, who is standing by.

Hello, Brianna Keilar.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, Brooke. Thank you so much.

I am live here in Des Moines, where in less than six hours the Democrats will be surrounded by Iowa supporters perhaps, people who aren't sure who they want to go, for during a live CNN town hall. Take a look at where we stand, the current Iowa front-runners once considered far-fetched also-rans.

A CNN poll of polls, this averages the four most recent Iowa polls, shows that Donald Trump leads the GOP field in this state. And then for Democrats, the CNN poll of polls shows Sanders is just ahead of Hillary Clinton. Sanders spoke in Iowa today, where his push to close the widening income gap is really striking a chord with some Iowans.

And it got pretty emotional at one point.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can't buy presents for your children. It's really, really, really hard. And I worked. I worked three, four, five jobs sometimes, always minimum wage. I have a degree. I'm divorced. And it's just waiting for disability to come through, so my parents have to support me. It's really hard.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (VT-I), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: All right, thank you. Thank you.

(APPLAUSE)

SANDERS: It is not easy for people to stand up and say that.

But the truth is, that until millions of people who are experiencing exactly what you guys are experiencing do say that, we don't make change. So I thank you for saying and for telling us what's going on in your lives, because the truth is, you can't make it on $12,000. You can't live in dignity on $10,000 or less.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: A lot of emotion here going into the caucuses. That is what candidates are trying to connect with.

Joining me now, we have senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny. And we have Kathie Obradovich. She's a political columnist for "The Des Moines Register."

Kathie, I wonder. You have been talking to so many people who will be going to caucus. This is getting pretty close here. We're a week out. Are there really that many people who are undecided? And the ones who have not made up their minds, what do they want to be struck by here in the next week?

KATHIE OBRADOVICH, "THE DES MOINES REGISTER": I think there really are people who are still undecided. I talked to somebody today at a Marco Rubio rally who said he's still trying to decide between Rubio and Ted Cruz, but he is definite that he is going to go to his caucus.

I think this is where the ground game comes in, that it's very important for all of these campaigns to have somebody good at every single precinct to speak up for their candidates. But I think there will a lot of people who actually sit down at their caucus and make up their minds on caucus night.

KEILAR: It really will come down to perhaps that enthusiasm. We will see who that benefits.

I wonder what you think, Jeff, about this interview President Obama did with Politico. This is something so many people have raised their eyebrows at. Let's take a listen to what he said when he really sang the praises of Hillary Clinton.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Bernie came in with the luxury of being a complete long shot.

QUESTION: Right.

OBAMA: And just letting loose. QUESTION: Right.

OBAMA: I think Hillary came in with the both privilege and burden of being perceived as the front-runner. You're always looking at the bright shiny object that people don't -- haven't seen before. That's a disadvantage to her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Aside from the deja vu all over again from eight years ago there -- he certainly knows what it's like to have the benefit of being a long shot -- when he says that, and he really is pumping Hillary Clinton up, do folks in Iowa who are thinking about, am I going to support her, am I going to support Bernie Sanders, does that matter to them?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: I don't think so.

He knows exactly what it's like to be the bright shiny object. That was him eight years ago. And I think, look, the reason that people sort of fell in love here in this state, with Iowa, which launched his path to the White House, was because of his aspirations and dreams.

And Some of those people are disappointed. Some are not, of course. But a lot of that sort of passion for what he didn't get done is fueling Senator Sanders' rise. So I cannot imagine anyone who's firmly committed to Senator Sanders by this point, hoping for universal health care and other things, will suddenly be swayed by what the president's saying.

[15:05:06]

Now, he's officially going to be neutral. I talked to someone at the White House today who he said, whoa, he's not endorsed. But, listen, we all know what he did. He's putting the thumb on the scale. We will see if it goes any farther than that. But I find it hard to believe for anyone to be moved by that.

Maybe if he would get out and campaign for Secretary Clinton, if it came to that, if this race goes on and on and on. But I don't know. I think that people can make up their own minds.

KEILAR: Let's talk about Republicans now. Today, you had Ted Cruz who poked fun a little bit at Donald Trump, as they're try to really go for the evangelical vote that is so important here in Iowa.

Of course, Donald Trump made a gaffe when he spoke at Liberty University, calling it not 2nd Corinthians, the book in the Bible. He called it 2 Corinthians. Here is how Cruz responded at a rally.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, we're standing on the promises of 2nd Chronicles 7:14. If my people -- well, you know, two Corinthians walk into a bar.

(LAUGHTER)

CRUZ: Ah, yes, Ricardo Montalban, genuine Corinthian leather. You have to be a certain era to remember that commercial.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: All right, so we're witnessing like a Bible-off here, right? Who's winning, do you think, when it comes to the evangelical vote? And I want you both to weigh in real quick on this.

OBRADOVICH: Yes. Well, I think that Ted Cruz is winning in with the evangelicals. And that, what you just saw, is one of the reasons. He knows his Bible. He can make those Scripture references. Donald Trump can't.

And Ted Cruz, I think, is getting traction with evangelicals, where Donald Trump is actually picking up a little bit more establishment and mainstream Republican support now in Iowa.

KEILAR: Can he gain -- can Donald Trump make any sort of I guess a dent in some of the evangelical votes here in the final week?

ZELENY: Sure. Sure. He's trying. That's why he went to church for the first time in this caucus cycle in Muscatine, Iowa, yes. I think he can on the edges if you sort of don't like Ted Cruz. But I think Ted Cruz is showing pretty clearly there he knows his Bible all directions, front ways and back ways.

KEILAR: He knows the good book.

ZELENY: Exactly.

KEILAR: Kathie, Jeff, thank you guys so much.

And I want to head back now to Brooke in New York -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Brianna, thank you very much.

Let's remind everyone, do not miss CNN's Democratic presidential town hall tonight live from Des Moines. Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton, Martin O'Malley, they will go face-to-face with the voters exactly one week before those Iowa caucuses. Chris Cuomo will be moderating. That is tonight, 9:00 eastern, right here on CNN.

Donald Trump is in the coveted position one week out from the Iowa caucuses. He leads not only in the CNN poll of polls, but specifically the latest FOX poll taken just last week has him a good 15 points ahead of his closest competitor, Ted Cruz.

And the Republican front-runner just sat down with my friend and colleague Wolf Blitzer, who is here with me in New York.

Good to see you.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you. Always good to be here. BALDWIN: So, Donald Trump, you asked him specifically about this word

establishment which has been thrown all over the place. I don't know if it's like a good word, a bad word anymore.

BLITZER: Nowadays, it's not a good word. Nobody wants to be the establishment. You sort of get criticized for being called the establish.

But Donald Trump was Donald Trump. He was very forceful, specifically about his main rival right now. That would be Senator Ted Cruz. It's neck and neck in Iowa. We will see what happens in New Hampshire, then in South Carolina, Nevada. If Trump wins in Iowa, that's a huge deal for him, because he could then be on the roll in those other primary and caucuses, caucus states.

But he minced no words in going after Ted Cruz, even at one point suggesting Ted Cruz is a liar. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: You say the establishment is against you. Why do you say that?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I think the establishment actually is against me, but really coming online, because they see me as opposed to Cruz, who is a nasty guy, who can't get along with anybody. Look, at a certain point, you have to make deals. We can't have a guy who stands in the middle of the Senate floor and now every other senator think he's a whack-job, right?

You have to make deals, you have to get along. That's the purpose of what our founders created. And Ted cannot get along with anybody. He's a nasty person. You don't see that. And even when he was supportive of me, I kept saying, watch what's going to happen, he's a nasty guy. And he brought it up at the debate. He started it, I finished it, but he brought it -- he started getting very bad at the debate.

And then he tells lies. He said I knocked down some woman's home. He's got bulldozers. I never knocked down her home. She didn't want it. And the words eminent domain, you wouldn't have roads, you wouldn't have airports, you wouldn't have hospitals, you wouldn't have schools. You have to have eminent domain.

By the way, the Keystone pipeline is all based on eminent domain. You wouldn't move that thing 10 feet without taking that land on which it sits. And, by the way, all those people get paid a lot of money. It's not like they take it. They take it and pay a lot of money.

[15:10:01]

But he makes a big deal out of eminent domain. You wouldn't have a country. You wouldn't have one highway in this country if you didn't have -- you wouldn't have a railroad. You wouldn't have anything.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: "He tells lies." Those are pretty strong words for the Republican presidential front-runner speaking of Ted Cruz. That's a big deal, when you formally accuse the other one of effectively being a liar.

BALDWIN: What I thought was interesting -- you swung by my office earlier today and we were talking about your interview. You have interviewed him, you go back how many years? A few.

BLITZER: I have interviewed him at least for a decade. We have had many, many interviews over the years.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Point being, critics would easily say, oh, he's registered Democrat, he's buddies with the Clintons. And you're saying on specific issues, he's been very consistent. For example?

BLITZER: And we talk about this in the interview today. On certain national security issues like Iraq, for example, during the Bush administration, he was very, very strongly opposed.

And I played some clips for him of what he told me in earlier interviews, and I have gone through a lot of that, getting ready for this new stage of interviews. He's pretty consistent what he said eight, nine years ago on some specific national security issues, also on some international trade issues, whether China and India. Over these past, seven, eight, nine years, he's been very consistent.

And he also said very similar things about these issues during the Bush administration, George W. Bush administration, that he now says during the Obama administration. And at one point, I asked him, who do you think is more responsible for what he describes as the decline of America? Would that be President Bush or President Obama? And he gives me a pretty specific answer.

BALDWIN: It's a good tease.

BLITZER: Yes.

BALDWIN: It's a good tease, Wolf Blitzer. Thank you very much.

BLITZER: We're going to run the interview at 5:00 and 6:00.

BALDWIN: In "THE SITUATION ROOM."

BLITZER: In "THE SITUATION ROOM," our "SITUATION ROOM."

BALDWIN: Got it. We will see you then.

BLITZER: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Thank you much, Wolf Blitzer with the Donald Trump interview today, again, "SITUATION ROOM," 5:00 Eastern here on CNN.

Meantime, let me tell you about someone who is more affluent than Donald Trump. He's even held office. So, as Michael Bloomberg considers a presidential run, we will speak live with a former member of the mayor's inner circle on that.

Also ahead, a manhunt is under way right now for these three inmates considered very dangerous. Managed to pull off a stunning escape involving a fight as a distraction, bed sheets tied together to rappel off the roof, tunnels, all part of this jailbreak. We will talk to a former federal inmate on that.

And Washington, D.C., still shut down, even though New York City seems to be up and running, other major cities, major airports, all struggling to return to normal after all the snow over the weekend.

More on that. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:16:43]

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Here in New York, New Yorkers are beginning to dig out of one of the biggest blizzards ever to hit the city. So many people made the slushy trek back to school, back to work today, but the cleanup is far from over. Some areas were buried under 30 inches snow.

Boris Sanchez is out in the thick of it for us.

At least I'm seeing cleared sidewalks where you are. My highly technical term for today, Boris, is mush. It's mushy.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's mushy and it is nasty on the street.

But for the most part, this is a typical New York day, Brooke. We're here on 31st and 8th near Penn Station. And you can behind me traffic is moving relatively smoothly. A lot of food is cooking. There are tourists are moving around.

Things are relatively normal, except for the fact there are giant piles of snow on the side of the street and, as we mentioned earlier, slush on the street as well. It's a minor concern for officials because obviously as the sun sets and we get closer to freezing temperatures, that slush can freeze and turn to black ice and create problems for tomorrow.

In terms of travel, the Long Island Railroad is up to 80 percent capacity at last check. They got it running on a delay earlier this morning. But, fortunately, the longest commuter line in the United States is almost to capacity now.

In terms of air travel, all the airports are open. There are cancellations and delays, though, in the hundreds. Aside from that, some sad news to report. There are nine deaths here in New York because of the storm, five in New York City and four in Long Island. Three of those people actually passed away because of shoveling their snow outside.

It's a common thing that happens during snowstorms and a sad note, as things start getting back to normal here in New York, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Yes. No, it is important to note it was absolutely a deadly snowstorm. Boris Sanchez, just outside Penn Station for us, thank you, Boris, very much.

Meantime, have you heard this one out of California? These three cut through steel bars, crawled through plumbing tunnels and slid down a rope made of bed sheets and towels. Next, the manhunt for these three inmates, including a convicted murderer, who are now on the run.

Also, he has the money to make a last-minute bid. Is Michael Bloomberg about to dramatically shake up the race for the White House? We will talk to someone who was part of his inner circle coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:23:16]

BALDWIN: Law enforcement has a message today for the Vietnamese community in and around Los Angeles. We know you are scared, but we need your help.

Why are they saying this? Because after this daring maximum security jail escape of three violent inmates, two of them with links to Vietnamese gangs, police say these inmates escaped from this maximum security jail in Santa Ana by cutting through half-inch pipe. They then crawled through these plumbing ducts before climbing to the roof of this jail, using a rope made of bed sheets and towels all sort of tied together to rappel down from this building.

Let me bring in Larry Levine. He is a former prison inmate, now serves as a prison consultant.

You're always incredible sort of on walking us through these jailbreaks, these prison escapes.

And so, Larry, first to you, when you hear the details of the tying the bed sheets, it's like this is the stuff you see in the movies. How can this happen still?

LARRY LEVINE, FORMER FEDERAL INMATE: Well, first of all, they're not in a jail cell. They're in a dormitory with maybe 50 or 60 people.

And there's constantly laundry call, where people are turning in their old laundry, getting new laundry. So, it's so really easy to accumulate bed sheets, pillow cases and such. And there's a constant flux of inmates coming and going.

So the cops really don't know at any given time how many people are in the pod. It's not like it's count time and they're coming to the cell and the inmates have to stand up and they're counting one, two, three. I have been in county jails in California. And what they will do is they will have the inmates come to the door of the pod, of the housing unit with your I.D. card and you will check in. They will check you off a list.

[15:25:01]

But remember that a county jail, it's not like a state prison, where you have inmates that are going to court, they're going to medical, psychology, recreation. So, at any given time, they really don't know how many inmates that are there and where they're at.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: I read that there's a head count at 5:00 in the morning and then the next head count isn't until 9:00 at night. That's a huge gap where I guess, technically, these inmates go unaccounted for.

Add to that, that we have heard also, Larry, that authorities -- there was some sort of fight that broke out at this jail. And now authorities are thinking that that was all a plot, a ploy, a distraction tactic so these three could escape.

LEVINE: Well, when an institution -- they call it when the stuff jumps off. They will generally lock the institution down to try to quell the riot or the disturbance. They're in a pod in an Orange County jail, which is -- you know, Orange County is like Vietnamese heaven. That's where they all went after the war.

And I'm sure this pod was loaded with Vietnamese inmates. Two of the men that escaped were Vietnamese inmates. So it would be real easy for them to have their confederates, you know, plan a disturbance, divert the cops' attention. It looks like that's what they did.

BALDWIN: And when you hear from this lieutenant in Orange County, from the sheriff's department, he was saying they absolutely believe that some, if not all of them, are -- his word was embedded in the community, meaning sort of unlike the Upstate New York prison escape, where these guys had, what, it was like rivers and streams in the middle of nowhere, this Orange County, California, or Santa Ana.

LEVINE: Well, you're in a major metropolitan -- the Los Angeles major metropolitan area, millions and millions of people.

You can blend in. And, also, remember that Interstate 5 is not far from where that jail was. And you're about 120 miles, two hours from Mexico. So the Iranian inmate, he'd only been there for a month. How well could he really have known these two Vietnamese?

I'm curious as why they brought him into their crime. Maybe he provided them some outside resources they didn't have, such as transportation. But, also, how did they get a hacksaw blade in there? This isn't like Upstate New York. You don't have in a county jail inmate work crews working around tools. They had to get that in there somehow.

And I really suspect, when this is all said and done, we're going to hear that somebody bribed a deputy or a jail official to actually get those blades in there, maybe through the book cart, maybe in through laundry or something. BALDWIN: Unreal. Unreal that we're talking about this again and that

one of them is convicted of murder. They're very, very dangerous, according to law enforcement. So, if you see anything, obviously, if you're in this part of the country, call police.

Larry Levine, we will talk again. Thank you so much.

LEVINE: Certainly, Brooke.

Coming up next, he has been called a contender for vice president. CNN catches up with Julian Castro in Iowa, why he says Hillary Clinton is the better candidate for Hispanics and African-American voters.

Also, we will talk to a leading immigration activist, why she is supporting Bernie Sanders for president, but she won't be voting for him. You will hear why. We will take you live to Iowa next.

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