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Sanders' Brother: "He Will Be The President"; Democrats Face Iowa Voters In CNN Town Hall; Trump: I Could Shoot Somebody And Wouldn't Lose Voters; Europol: More Attacks In Europe May Happen In Future; Refugee Center Worker Stabbed To Death In Sweden; WHO: Zika Virus Spreading To Almost All The Americas; Preview of Democratic Town Hall Meeting; Will Michael Bloomberg Run as Independent?; Examining Situation in Egypt. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired January 25, 2016 - 15:00   ET



HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani. A lot to get through this hour. Thanks for being with us. We're live from

CNN London and this is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.

Just hours from now, three Democrats running for the White House will make their final pitch to voters in Iowa, the U.S. state. It's exactly one week

before Iowa holds the first nominating contest of the presidential campaign, the Iowa caucuses.

Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton, and Martin O'Malley will take part in a town hall style forum hosted by CNN. Chris Cuomo will serve as moderator.

The latest CNN poll of polls shows the race is almost neck-in-neck in Iowa with Sanders at 46 percent, Hillary Clinton at 44 percent, and Martin

O'Malley at just 4 percent. The poll is an average of the four most recent surveys.

One man convinced Bernie Sanders will be the next U.S. president is his brother, Larry. The siblings enjoy a close relationship, one strengthened

by the death of their parents when they were quite young.

I spoke to Larry in Oxford where he told me their mom and dad simply wouldn't have believed how far Bernie has come.


GORANI: Your father couldn't have imagined as a Polish immigrant, a hardworking man, who hoped life would be better for his kids, but could he

imagine his son running for president and doing as well as he has been doing. How do you think he would see --

LARRY SANDERS, BERNIE SANDERS' BROTHER: Well, this is the point at which in previous interviews I've cried. So I've learned to control myself, but

it's exactly that thought of how happy and how proud -- they both would be.


GORANI: All right. You can see the full interview with Larry Sanders in just a few minutes right here on THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.

Let's take you straight to where all the action is happening, Iowa, to get a preview of what we can expect. Our political director, David Chalian is

covering it all. He joins me from Des Moines.

So David, explain to our viewers the importance of Iowa right now for these candidates.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, listen, this is where it all begins, Hala, right? This is both parties begin their nominating process

here and it is really important because either you get a shot of momentum coming out of here, or perhaps a fundamental flaw with your candidacy is


Right now, we're seeing Iowa playing perhaps a more critical role in both parties' contests than we've ever seen before because there's a great

question hanging here on the Republican side, which is all the Trump phenomenon.

Everything surrounding Donald Trump, his poll numbers, his crowd sizes, is that going to translate into votes? That is an answer that we need, that

we will get next Monday night right here in Iowa.

And on the Democrat side and this is why this town hall tonight that you mentioned is so critical. The is question is, is Hillary Clinton facing

yet again a rejection from Democratic voters at the starting gate of a race as she did eight years ago with Barack Obama or will she show that she

actually has learned some lessons.

GORANI: Let's preview a little bit this town hall. Who has an edge, an advantage here in terms of their style and strategy so far and is setting

like a town hall meeting because they get to take questions directly from potential voters here?

CHALIAN: That's right. I'm not sure the format gives anyone of the three candidates an edge because this is actually something they do day in and

day out crisscrossing the state of Iowa. They hold similar town halls themselves.

I do think they each have sort of different stakes tonight and different challenges that they need to grapple with. But you are right, the format

is they're each going to get basically a half an hour, three candidates, where Chris Cuomo will ask them some questions, but the bulk of the

questions will come from the audience on an array of topics.

And this is their opportunity to make the final pitch, that closing sale, for the voters before they go to those caucuses next Monday.

[15:05:02]GORANI: All right, David Chalian, thanks very much. David is in Iowa and David mentioned and he's been promoting as well, do tune in to the

town hall, moderated by Chris Cuomo featuring the three Democratic candidates. Thanks, David.

Let's get more on the significance of Iowa itself. David Gergen is a senior political analyst for CNN and an adviser to four former U.S.

presidents. He joins me now from Houston Texas. David, nice to see you.

Let's talk about this latest nationwide poll. We have Bernie Sanders at 46 percent, Hillary Clinton at 44 percent. They were closer just about a week

ago at 45 and 45 percent. What do you make this Bernie surge here?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: This has been the most unpredictable and unusual year in American politics that I can remember. I

think we are a long way from being finished. There are going to be a lot more surprises.

But who could imagine the 74-year-old -- you know, he is sort of a granddaddy to a lot of these younger millenials who are flocking to him.

But he has I think captured the Democratic left.

Just there is on the right wing of the American politics, there is an awful lot of frustration on the left, and a sense too many compromises have been

made and they want more purity. Bernie sanders is giving voice to that.

And Hillary Clinton who is surprisingly running a surprisingly scared campaign right now has been so much more of a conventional candidate in an

unconventional year.

GORANI: But you have observed many, many presidential campaigns and races.

GERGEN: Many, many.

GORANI: Do you think Bernie Sanders -- been an adviser to four presidents -- do you think Bernie Sanders has a shot here at the nomination?

GERGEN: He certainly has a shot at the nomination. I think it is a low probability but he has a shot. If he were to win in Iowa and New

Hampshire, that's something that the polls say he could do, then he could - - the momentum in the race could shift toward him in an unpredictable way.

If voters conclude that maybe Hillary Clinton is not their best champion this year, the Democrat voters, anything could happen. You could see

Sanders gain a lot of strength. You could potentially see a new person enter the race, maybe even Joe Biden if Bernie Sanders were to win both

Iowa and New Hampshire.

GORANI: So don't exclude --

GERGEN: I think it's crucial.

GORANI: That's interesting because you don't exclude Joe Biden getting back into the race if Bernie registers some strong gains in the early


GERGEN: Well, I think if Bernie Sanders wins both Iowa and New Hampshire it's going to invite a lot of speculation about whether Hillary Clinton can

go the distance against a Republican.

And that may put pressure on -- I think Democrats are going to be looking for alternatives. If Hillary Clinton wins Iowa and there is a very good

chance she will, after all, she is probably much better organized than he is, and to get voters out on a caucus night.

If she wins, I think that ensures -- almost certainly ensures she wins the nomination. She could lose New Hampshire and still bounce back.

She is in a fortunate position in one sense and that is she does have a fallback position if she were to lose Iowa and New Hampshire, and that is

what's called super Tuesday with a lot of southern states.

It's hard to imagine that even in the Democratic Party that an avowed socialist can win the nomination. America has never been kind to


GORANI: Let me put something to the Donald Trump said on the Republican side. He is the front-runner, of course. He is five points ahead of

nearest rival Ted Cruz of Iowa according to latest CNN poll of polls. In fact, Trump seemed so confident of victory that he recently made this

remarkable statement.


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My people are so smart and you know what else they say about my people, the polls, they say I have the

most loyal people, do you ever see that. Where I could stand on the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters. OK,

it's like incredible.


GORANI: David Gergen, what did you make of that statement?

GERGEN: Off the wall, inappropriate, and probably not damaging.

GORANI: Not damaging.

GERGEN: He has said things like that -- not damaging within the context of American politics. What I have, Hala -- I just came back from Europe, I

was in London a couple of times, in Davos with the World Economic Forum.

I think a lot of Europeans are watching this American political race with a growing amount of concern. They think it has become a bad joke on the

Trump side. And frankly some of them are terrified at the prospects of a Trump presidency.

I've tried to reassure them the American system is stronger than that. No matter who gets in I think the people in the country will rise to the


But even so, it's worth noting that -- I think there is evidence now that some of the volatility in the financial markets is about growing anxiety

over which way this race going to go in the United States.

[15:10:04]GORANI: But does he have competition? Is Ted Cruz competition? The Republican establishment is also, you can sense, becoming extremely

concerned here with these poll numbers, these Donald Trump poll numbers. Is there someone to compete with him on the Republican side here?

GERGEN: Well, I'm speaking to you from Houston, I was at a lunch with some major figures here in this city. And I was surprised to find that here in

the home -- basically home state of Senator Ted Cruz there is not as much sport for him as one might expect.

I asked an audience, if it comes down to Trump versus Hillary at the end of the day, who would you vote for, and they were having a hard time with

this. This is a crowd that normally would like to vote Republican.

I think many of them still would, but they would be very, very divided if it comes down to Donald Trump versus Hillary Clinton.

GORANI: All right, fascinating. David Gergen, thanks very much, always a pleasure talking to you.

GERGEN: Thank you, Hala.

GORANI: Still to come tonight, Europol says the continent is currently facing the most significant terrorist threat in over ten years. I'll speak

to the organization's deputy director coming up.


GORANI: ISIS has released a gruesome new propaganda video that shows the faces of the nine men that ISIS claims carried out a wave of attacks in

Paris last year, on 13th of November.

Some of them can be seen executing prisoners. It's an 18-minute tape. It also contains an audio message from the suspected ring leader of the

attacks, Abdul Hamid (inaudible).

The video also appears to confirm that the ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi ordered, personally ordered the November attack that left 130 people

murdered in Paris.

Europe is currently facing the most significant terrorist threat in over ten years. That is a conclusion from the European Union's law enforcement

agency, Europol.

It's establishing the European Counterterrorism Center, it says, to more effectively coordinate intelligence and the activities of police forces all

over the continent.

I spoke to one of the group's deputy directors. I began by asking him about Europol's assessment of the current threat. Why is it so high?



WIL VAN GEMERT, DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF EUROPOL, OPERATIONS DEPARTMENT: Well, this is a quote from a report that we have been issuing today at the launch

of the European Counterterrorism Center. It was a meeting of experts from different member states at the end of November.

The confusion that we have seen after the attacks that we have seen in Paris and also while the tension there is ISIS to the European Union. I

think it's relevant and realistic to say that we have a trap like this coming.

[15:15:04]GORANI: Was there a bit of soul-searching there at these meetings where after Paris there was a sense that there was a big failure

in intelligence, that all these men who participated in the end had been basically circulating around Europe undetected? Was there at any point the

idea there that perhaps we should have done better?

GEMERT: Well, at least I think the goal of every policeman is to prevent an attack like this. So, yes, surely we want to make sure that this won't

happen, but it's not only about law enforcement. It's also about intelligence service.

I think what we realize it's possible to have a national approach towards this kind of investigations. And now I think more and more, and it's also

the point --

GORANI: So you would blame intelligence then, not law enforcement?

GEMERT: No, I'm not blaming anybody. I'm making clear that it's not only about law enforcement but also intelligence, and we have to step up in this


Making also clear that it's about connecting to each other and collecting the information and the same goes for the intelligence service.

Also, they have to collect information and then check with us if there is any available information. That's more or less what we are just providing,

also towards the member states with the new counterterrorism center.

GORANI: Were you able to see this ISIS propaganda video featuring some of the Paris attackers?

GEMERT: I have been briefed about it. I haven't seen it by myself at this moment.

GORANI: It looks like they are actually threatening the United Kingdom, how much does that concern you?

GEMERT: Well, it's our general concern of ISIS in reaching out to its European continent and trying to, well, to put fear to the public, and also

trying to address us and saying that they will attack us. That's reality. I think we have to make sure that we are able to counter this also by

stronger cooperation in this field.

GORANI: But you are not more concerned for the U.K. than any other country as a result of a video like that one?

GEMERT: Well, I cannot say that's -- I think there was some concern about, and that's also being demonstrated in France, because France was seen as

the leader of the crusaders. They have been reaching out to other countries also mentioning Germany, the Netherlands, now they mention U.K.

From the Europol point of view, we are looking at the threats towards the European continent and we are trying to make sure that we do all the best

to make sure that this will not happen. And that's the reason why we are setting up this new feature.

GORANI: Finally, you know, ordinary viewers will be watching this. Visitors to Europe, people who live in Europe, and they will be saying OK,

I'm hearing from Europol now, they are telling me the most significant terrorist threat to my region in over ten years is happening right now.

What would you tell just ordinary citizens?

GEMERT: Well, we want to be transparent. We have to be transparent with things like this. But on the other hand, I think life doesn't stop right

here. You should also go on with the things that you are doing.

Exactly this would be the message behind sending a video like this, that we would stop doing the things that we like to do in the society. That's not

the way we should go. We should be not -- we should be realistic on one hand.

On the other hand, also working together to prevent an attack like this and that's exactly what we are doing at this moment.


GORANI: The deputy director of Europol. OK, this is just coming in to us today. Police in Sweden are now investigating a stabbing death that could

potentially inflame tensions between asylum seekers and locals.

Police say a 15-year-old asylum seeker stabbed a 22-year-old employee of this refugee center. They say she was alone with eight young male

residents, but only one is believed to have been directly involved.

Let's get more. Nic Robertson joins me now live from London. What more do we know about this attack?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: The authorities say that they know the nationality of the individual. They are not releasing

it, but they say they know it at this time.

They say they have quite a lot of young migrants coming to the country that are in the asylum centers such as this one. It's not unusual to have

violence, mostly between the refugees or the migrants themselves.

The police are called in and they say that is the major distraction. This comes hard on the heels of a young refugee a few weeks who stabbed a


It's the sort of thing that at this sensitive time enflames passions before the police can even get to the bottom of what happened here.

GORANI: The female was an employee at the center?

ROBERTSON: She was working at the asylum center, an employee there. There are a lot more of these asylum centers around than we are aware. Sweden

has taken in a huge number of refugees. This was a center for unaccompanied minors. They were all under 18 years of age.

[15:20:07]GORANI: And what happens to the suspect here?

ROBERTSON: He will be taken into the police station for questioning. A translator will be brought in. Is there a near relative who could come as

would normally happen for a minor?

GORANI: So now, after the Cologne New Year's attacks and then we have instances of violence, sporadic, has to be said, but still very real,

committed by refugees, interior ministers are meeting. They are trying to figure out how to address this. What's likely to come out of that?

ROBERTSON: Yes, I mean, look at the situation in Europe, which is what the interior ministers were addressing this morning. You have Sweden, Denmark,

Norway, Germany, Austria, France, Slovakia, Hungary, and Netherlands, all with these temporary border controls to stop the movement of migrants.

This is against the principles of (inaudible), they can do that for six months on a temporary basis. If they want to make it and the situation

looks right now that it may have to make it more permanent that's a two- year thing.

You have to get the E.U. to vote on it. So that's what the interior ministers were talking about. How do we do it? What does it look like?

Can we manage these new border controls if we put them in place without disrupting business in Europe?

GORANI: Dialing back some compounding principles of the modern European Union.

ROBERTSON: This is before you look at the external borders, which they were discussing as well, which has brought frustrations up from Greece, who

the finger is being pointed at is not doing enough to monitor their external borders.

GORANI: Thank you, Nic Robertson. We'll keep in touch with more on this and other stories.

Coming up, a report from the World Health Organization indicates that the Zika virus is spreading especially for pregnant women. This is a cause for

concern. We'll explain next.

Also --


SANDERS: Well, he was a quiet kid. He was fairly shy. He was -- his great gift was he's a very good athlete, a very determined athlete.


GORANI: a side of Bernie Sanders you've never seen before. I get an extremely personal insight into the Democratic candidate's life from his

own brother.


GORANI: Welcome back. Here's a look at the Dow. We're down again, just not bouncing back from this slump, are we? Here's a look at the main index

on Wall Street at 15,943 and change, down 150 points.

Here's a look at Brent Crude oil prices are taking a dip, again. But still hovering above $30 a barrel for Brent Crude at $30.38 and do we have light

Texas -- we just have Brent. That's the benchmark anyway. That's all you need to know.

Now there is tremendous concern for pregnant women in the Americas as the Zika virus spreads. There is a new report out by the World Health

Organization indicating that these 21 countries and territories have already reported cases of the mosquito-borne disease.

The Centers for Disease Control recommends that pregnant member postpone travel to these countries. Senior Latin-American Affairs Editor Rafael

Romo explain why there is so much concern right now.


RAFAEL ROMO, CNN SENIOR LATIN AMERICAN AFFAIRS EDITOR (voice-over): The main concern about the Zika virus is it has been linked to a rare

neurological condition called microcephaly. Babies are born with abnormally small heads.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our advice to pregnant women is that if possible that pregnant women should consider deferring travel to areas where Zika virus

is currently circulating.

[15:25:00]ROMO: Authorities in Brazil have reported nearly 4,000 case of microcephaly tied to the Zika virus and now the World Health Organization

says the Zika virus would likely to spread throughout South, Central and North America with the exception of Chile in the south and Canada in the

north because the type of mosquito that spreads the virus isn't present in those two countries.

In the Central American nation of El Salvador, health authorities have already reported more than 3,800 cases of the Zika virus. The Salvadoran

vice minister of health took the unusual step of recommending that women avoid getting pregnant for the next two years.

Colombian vice minister of health says his country may get as many as 600 cases of microcephaly in the next couple of years. But Dr. Beth Bell with

the Centers for Disease Control says it's important to remember that with the exception of pregnant women, Zika is not dangerous for the population

as a whole.

DR. BETH BELL, U.S. CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL: What we know right now is for the vast majority of people, that is essentially people who are not

pregnant, that Zika virus is a pretty mild infection and actually the majority of people don't have any symptoms.

ROMO: So far, 21 countries and territories in the Americas have reported cases of the virus, including Brazil, with as many as 1.5 million cases.

Health authorities are especially concerned because the South American nation is hosting the Olympic Games this summer.


GORANI: Rafael Romo joins me from CNN Center. We saw a map. For people who couldn't read it, very quickly, tell us the most affected countries in

this case.

ROMO: Number one, by far, Hala, is Brazil with 1.5 million people, but we have other countries like Colombia for example, with 13,000 cases, El

Salvador, 3,800, and here in the United States, Hala, there are cases reported in places like Illinois, Florida, and Texas. And there's one case

in Hawaii of a -- it's a microcephaly case linked to the Zika virus -- Hala.

GORANI: The question is, is there a way to prevent -- is there a way to protect yourself from this virus if you are bitten by a mosquito that can

carry it?

ROMO: Yes, what the U.S. Centers for Disease Control are saying is there is no way to cure or treat this disease. The only thing you can do for

yourself is wear repellant and what countries like Colombia and Ecuador are doing is spraying those mosquito infested areas.

Another thing that can be done is not traveling to those places. But when that is not possible, authorities are saying be careful, stay away from

those areas where you find stagnant water because that's where most mosquitoes are going to concentrate -- Hala.

GORANI: This really only affects pregnant women, right?

ROMO: The Zika virus and the developmental problems for babies, yes, only pregnant women. For the rest of the population, some people may experience

a little bit of a fever, a little bit of the symptoms that you would feel if you have a cold.

But they say that 80 percent of people don't experience anything at all and that's in itself can be dangerous because it can be transmitted to other

people -- Hala.

GORANI: OK, thanks very much, Rafael Romo, with the latest on that.

Still ahead on THE WORLD RIGHT NOW I asked Bernie Sanders' brother, Larry, if his brother has what it takes to go all the way.


GORANI: Do you think he will become the Democratic nominee?


GORANI: Find out who he has to say in just a few moments. We'll be right back.

Plus we look back at a revolution that changed Egypt forever. Five years on from the protests in Tarir (ph) Square. Where did the country go from

here? Was it worth it? We'll be right back.



GORANI: In just a few hours CNN will welcome the three Democrats running for the White House in a town hall style forum.


GORANI: The event will take place in Iowa just one week before the first nominating contest of the Presidential campaign, the Iowa caucus us. The

latest CNN Poll of Polls shows Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton are almost neck and-neck.


GORANI: Peace talks between the warring parties in Syria have been pushed back to Friday.


GORANI: That's another one of the stories we're following. They were supposed to get underway today. The U.S. Special envoy to the country says

discussions are continuing over who should be invited to represent the opposition.


GORANI: Also among our top stories temperatures have plunged across East Asia.


GORANI: At least 85 deaths in Taiwan will being blamed on - being blamed on hypothermia and other weather related causes. Major highways in mainland

China have been closed because of severe weather just as the peak travel season is due to begin for the lunar New Year there.


GORANI: Meanwhile in the United States the East Coast is dealing with the aftermath of the crazy blizzard over the weekend.


GORANI: It is still causing problems. In Washington federal and local governments are shut down and local transit is still limited.



GORANI: What is not shut down is the Washington, D.C. Bureau, still running at full steam as the Democrat candidates prepare for their showdown in

Iowa. The Republican front runner is fighting his own battle in a very different way. I said D.C., I meant New York. Let's go over to Wolf

Blitzer, who has just spoken to Donald Trump. And Wolf, you asked him about Ted Cruz, I believe.

WOLF BLITZER, CORRESPONDENT: He mixed no words, he's really getting increasingly more I should say tougher with Ted Cruz. This is a real

battle in Iowa, it's neck and neck, Donald Trump really wants to win in Iowa, Hala. If he thinks he can win the Iowa caucuses, he's convinced

he'll win New Hampshire, South Carolina, Nevada, he'd be well on his way to getting the Republican Presidential nomination.

And we spoke about the complaints that all these Republican candidates are having about the establishment Republican leadership. Listen to this

exchange I had with Trump.


BLITZER: You say the establishment is against you. Why do you say that?

TRUMP: Well, I think the establishment actually is against me, but really coming on line, because they see me as opposed to Cruz who is a nasty guy

who can't get along with anybody.

You know, look at a certain point you've got to make deals. We can't have a guy who stands in the middle of the senator floor and not every other

senator thinks he's a whack job. Right? You know, you have to make deals. You have to get along. That's the purpose of what our founders created. And

Ted cannot get along with anybody. He's a nasty person. You don't see that. And even when he was supportive of me, I kept saying watch what's going to

happen. He is a nasty guy. And he brought it up at the debate. He started it. I finished it. But he brought it, you know he started getting very bad

at the debate. And then he tells lies.

I mean he said I knocked down some woman's home. He's got bulldozers, I never knocked down her home. She didn't won't it. And the word's eminent

domain, you won't have roads, you wouldn't have airports, you wouldn't have hospitals, you wouldn't have schools. You have to have (inaudible). By the

way the Keystone pipeline is based on eminent domain. You wouldn't move that thing ten feet without taking that land on which it's sits.

And by the way, all these people get paid a lot of money. It's not like they take it. They take and it pay a lot of money. But he makes a big deal

out of eminent domain. You wouldn't have a country, you wouldn't have one highway in this country if you didn't have -- you won't have a railroad,

you wouldn't anything.



BLITZER: And Hala, it's exactly one week tonight will be the Iowa caucuses of both of these candidates, Ted Cruz and Donald Trump are neck-and-neck in

Iowa right now - neck and neck according to our most recent poll, the most recent Fox poll, Donald Trump is actually 11 points ahead of Ted Cruz in

Iowa. So he's feeling pretty good. But a lot of people don't make up their mind until the last week. So this is a real battle. And Trump really

suspects, senses he can win. And if he does win in Iowa, that will put him closer and closer to getting that Republican Presidential nomination. It's

very tight right now.

GORANI: Is it starting to -- because just a few months ago, I think people just saw Donald Trump, they listened to some of the more outlandish things

he said and thought okay it's all going to fizzle out.


GORANI: Is there kind of a general sense now among observers, even among political operatives on the Republican side that Donald Trump just might be

the republican nominee here?

BLITZER: Yes. I think increasingly a lot of pundits a lot of observers, a lot of people who have a lot of experience, they look at how consistent he

has been atop the Republican field. Not for a week, not for a month. But for six months basically he has been atop. And in some of those polls -

forget about the national polls in the key battle ground states, his numbers are increasingly growing.

So there is a sense yes he could definitely win the Republican presidential nomination. And if it's Donald Trump, let's say Hillary Clinton manages to

beat Bernie Sanders for the Democrat Presidential nomination, this could be a real battle for the Presidency.


BLITZER: So it's going to be lively, there's no doubt about that, Hala.

GORANI: Certainly a fascinating race this time around. Thanks very much. Yes --

BLITZER: And i will -- one more thing, Hala.



BLITZER: In fact, if Michael Bloomberg the former mayor of New York decides to throw his hat into the ring and spend $1 billion of his own money,

Forbes magazine says he is worth about $36 million, then that could be even more lively.


GORANI: Well, we've a race of two very rich men and possibly Hillary Clinton. The other thing I wanted to run by you. David Gergen told me if

Hillary Clinton doesn't do well in the early states that possibly he sees Joe Biden coming back. That's not an impossibility, essentially. Is that at

all being talked about?

BLITZER: No. It's definitely being talked about. If for example, she were to collapse and Bernie Sanders would beat her in Iowa, New Hampshire is a

neighboring state to Vermont, he's way ahead in New Hampshire, then they go to South Carolina.

If Hillary Clinton should stumble on the political front or if there is some legal issue, the FBI moves in and says that her private e-mail server

was illegal or whatever -- if there is some issue, then I could definitely see the Vice President, Joe Biden throwing his hat back into the ring,

livening it up even more.

GORANI: OK, Wolf Blitzer we'll see for our viewers in the United States, in the Situation Room at 5:00 p.m. Eastern. Thanks very much.

Well over on the Democratic side, Bernie Sanders is making his case that he should be the party's nominee, of course, not Hillary Clinton. And he is

doing very well in the polls. If anyone has an idea about whether he's up to such a formidable challenge, it is his own older brother. I spoke to

Larry Sanders for his prediction and learned about a side of Bernie Sanders that few are privy to.


GORANI: Thousands of miles from the U.S. campaign trail where Democratic Presidential candidate Bernie Sanders is riding high in the polls lives a

man who knows him better than almost anyone.

In picturesque Oxford, England, older brother Larry Sanders says he's not surprised the man he calls Bernard is doing so well.

Do you think he can beat Hillary Clinton?

LARRY SANDERS, BERNIE SANDERS BROTHER: Oh, yes, I think he can beat Hillary Clinton.

GORANI: And do you think he will become the Democrat nominee?

SANDERS: He will not only become the democrat nominee, but be given the it -- but given the state of the Republican party, he will be the President.

GORANI: Larry, a retired social worker, moved to England this the '60s with his first wife. But both brothers grew up in Brooklyn, New York, the

children of Jewish immigrants from Poland.

What was Bernie Sanders like as a kid brother?

SANDERS: Well, he was a quiet kid. He was fairly shy. He was -- his great gift was he's a very good athlete, a very determined athlete. He was always

very kind. He was -- he was very truthful I guess still is very truthful.

GORANI: The Sanders' parents had it rough. They were poor. And both died relatively young. But 80-year-old Larry says he still thinks about them


SANDERS: This is the point at which in previous interviews I've cried, so I've learned to control myself. But it's exactly that thought of how happy

-- and how proud -- see? Oh, they both would be.


GORANI: When did your father pass away? Was he able to see any of --

SANDERS: No. No. He died just two years after my mother. He couldn't really cope on his own.

GORANI: And so he never saw Bernie Sanders do -- achieve any of his political career?

SANDERS: No, none of it.

GORANI: Is that something you wished --

SANDERS: Well, that's part of why I break into tears, yes, it was so sad. I remember when he was first elected Mayor, practically the first thing that

came to my mind was how nice it would have been.

GORANI: Larry also ran for parliament in the U.K. last year. Unsuccessfully. All these years later, he says, there is still a playful

sibling rivalry.

SANDERS: There is a certain amount of competition. I think I'm a politician and he's a politician. He's doing a little bit better than me. And I think

if we were living next door to each other, it would be a problem.

GORANI: You must be - I mean, even though there's competition -- and I know there's competition between brothers -- you must be really proud.

SANDERS: Oh, I'm incredibly proud. Of course I am. Yes.

GORANI: All these decades later, his brother says even though Bernie calls himself a socialist that he is not on the fringes of American politics,

that in fact he has widespread appeal.

SANDERS: Policy by policy the things that Bernard talks about, a good minimum wage, health care for everybody -- if you put those things to the

public -- and they have been done in loads of polls, they are mainstream things, people want those things.

GORANI: Larry predicts his brother will face Donald Trump in November's general election. He says the two candidates have only one thing in common;

their appeal to people who feel disgruntled.

SANDERS: Donald trump is an obnoxious person, regardless, almost, of his policies. But Bernard's great strength is he talks directly to people, and

he isn't put off by the fact that they have got particular opinions that are different from his.

I think that the Trumps do get strengths from the people feeling they have been ripped off. Bernard agrees with that. But instead of saying well the

thing to do is to hate Mexicans and hate Muslims, the thing to do is to create a better society.

GORANI: Bernie Sanders is passionate about his proposals, his brother says, but adds he never set out to be President.

SANDERS: To be honest, he loved being Senator from Vermont. People love him there. They would elect him forever. He waited and waited hoping that

somebody else would come in who would represent his kind of viewpoints, his view of where the country should be going and it didn't happen it so he

went into it. He absolutely had no -- I had never heard him before that talk about the presidency.

GORANI: Bernie sanders is a man what has surprised everyone, it seems, even his closest relative.


GORANI: All right there you have it. So just what is the Sanders secret? Let's bring in Josh Rogin the CNN political analyst as well as a columnist

on foreign policy and national security for Bloomberg View. He's in Washington.

So Josh, let's talk a little bit about Bernie Sanders's appeal here because he's doing better than anyone predicted, almost in the same way Trump is

doing better than anyone predicted. What's behind it here?


JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right I think the rise of Bernie Sanders could be attributed to two factors. First of all, he has captured what they

call on the Republican side the anger vote. Right? People say oh Bernie Sanders is angry. Yes, he says he is angry. He talks about a grotesque

problem in America that needs fixing. So he's tapping into that reservoir of dissatisfaction with Washington despite the fact that he has been a

senator all this time.

The second thing is that he is appealing to parts of the Democratic primary electorate that Hillary Clinton that is just not motivating. We're talking

about young people, college students, really far left progressives. People --

GORANI: The young people and college students -- he's 74 years old. I mean he's old enough to be their grandfather. Why is he appealing to college


ROGIN: As it turns out, young Democrats are more left leaning than their parents were. And as it turns out, they don't feel that Hillary Clinton

represents a change that they can get behind. So even though Bernie Sanders is old, his ideas represent a stark departure from where the Democratic

party is now. Whereas Hillary Clinton's views represent a continuation of Democratic policies we've seen largely in her husband an in Barack Obama's


GORANI: So - but let's get real beyond Iowa, beyond New Hampshire, I mean those are states that obviously Bernie Sanders might even have an edge in.

Let's go to - we were taking with David Gergen, who has advised four former Presidential candidates, to go to super Tuesday, lots of those southern


I mean Is there an expectation that Bernie Sanders can overcome the hurdles in southern states against Hillary Clinton?

ROGIN: Yes, the stack is still heavily in favor of Hillary Clinton as you go through the primaries. There was some reporting last week that Bill

Clinton was dissatisfied with his wife's campaign infrastructure in some of those super Tuesday states. The campaign is addressing that now.


ROGIN: Overall, let's remember here that the Clinton machine has spent eight years sewing up delegates all over the country. They remember what

happened in 2008 where they got a lot of votes but they lost on delegates. And they've been methodically planning for just this scenario. So they are

much better prepared.

Now, the Sanders campaign theory is that if he wins Iowa and New Hampshire, which is by no means a foregone conclusion, that that will create its own

momentum and that will solve the problem which is the Hillary Clinton machine just far outstrips his and she really still has to be the odds-on

favorite to win the nomination.


GORANI: And this was - I was going to say sorry to jump in exciting enough we're going to have Michael Bloomberg come in as well and spend $1 billion

of his own money. We'll have Michael Bloomberg against Donald Trump and it will be the clash of the business titans here.

ROGIN: Yes, as a Bloomberg employee, I don't have any inside information just what I read in the news. But it seems that Bloomberg will only come in

if Hillary falters. So right now he is still keeping hills powder dry.


ROGIN: But if he sees that there is a large section of the country that won't want to elect Bernie Sanders and won't want to elect Donald Trump,

that's the opening possibly he's been waiting for his whole life, according to the reports.

GORANI: Josh Rogin, thanks very much in Washington. As always thanks for your analysis.


GORANI: Chris Cuomo moderates the Democratic Presidential Town Hall right here on CNN. It's at 2:00 a.m. on Tuesday in London. 3:00 a.m. central

European time. And if that's too late for you, you can catch the replay at 1:00 p.m. central European time on CNN.

Don't forget check out our Facebook page, goranicnn for all the latest news and interviews. This is "The World Right Now."


GORANI: In 2011, protesters started a revolt that forever changed Egypt. We take a look back at what has changed in the five years since Mubarak fell.

And much of what has not. That's next.





GORANI: It's hard to believe it was five years ago. It feels like a lifetime ago. That's when a series of huge popular protests led to the

resignation eventually of the Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak and if start of a revolution.

The hope was for a more democratic country. I reported from the center of it all, Tahrir Square, and really, there was a feeling that things were

going to change, that autocrats and strong men would be wrong that people would be free to say whatever they wanted and wouldn't live in constant

fear. But fast forward to 2016 and it appears not much has changed with the Egyptian government arresting journalists and bloggers and activists.

Ian Lee reports.


IAN LEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Arab leaders quaked at the sight of Tahrir. Millions of Egyptians took to the square, a force for change,

demanding a better life. That was 18 days in 2011. The masses returned to do it again in 2013. Shortly after, the new government cracked down.


LEE: Police arrested Yousef during a protest charged with threatening national security, he says. We're concealing the University student's

identity, he's afraid for his safety.

(YOUSEF, TORTURE VICTIM): They electrocuted me with two wires to the chest and the back. I was screaming in pain. My torturer said the electricity was

weak, plug it into the ac. The shock sent me and two guys holding me back a few meters.

LEE: Yousef languished in prison for over a year. How did you deal with the torture?

(YOUSELF): I cried hard, I felt extremely weak, impotent and crushed. I broke a piece of glass and felt that I wanted to end all this, I wanted to


LEE: CNN can't independently verify (Yousef's) story, but Egyptian human rights lawyers say his story is not unique.

RAGIA OMRAN, NATIONAL COUNCIL FOR HUMAN RIGHTS: The use of extreme force, violence, torture violations in prisons and especially in police stations

has gone up on the rise.

LEE: One report detailed police abuse in 2015. In it, nearly 500 people died in police custody. 700 cases of torture were documented.

In the lead up to the anniversary of the revolution, activists tell us the government is cracking down on any perceived threats, including making

arrests as well as raiding cultural centers and private homes.

TIMOTHY KALDAS, TAHIR INSTITUTE FOR MIDDLE EAST POLICY: There is a deliberate attempt to send a message to anyone who would consider

protesting that it won't be tolerated this time around.

LEE: Egypt's minister of interior defended his tactics as legal on state T.V.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (As translated): Questions are being raised now about some practices that violate human rights. Well they are necessary because

of the reality we live in. We are facing a ferocious wave of terrorism that Egypt hasn't witnessed in modern history.

LEE: Among the wave of terrorism ISIS in Egypt has killed over a thousand people, including hundreds of civilians. But you Yousef sees the

government's tactics as counterproductive.

YOUSEF: The government gives the terrorist organizations a kiss of life. The youth join these groups as a result of the government's oppression and

terror. They don't give the young people a way to vent their anger.

LEE: Five years on, for many the hope of Tahrir has been replaced by despair.

Ian Lee, CNN, Cairo.


GORANI: Coming up, so close to making history.


GORANI: This explorer knew he could not go on. So alone, and thousands of kilometers from home, he wrote his own final good-bye. The full story





GORANI: A British explorer has lost his life in Antarctica within sight of making history.

Henry Worsley was 71 days into his dangerous trek raising money for charity, and tragically just about 50 kilometers away from the finish.

As CNN's Zain Asher explains, it was an end he knew was coming.


ZAIN ASHER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Britain's Henry Worsley died on the brink of history, attempting to do something that no one else had

done before. To cross the Antarctic alone and unaided.

It's an epic feat that the feigned explorer, Earnest Shackleton left unfinished a century ago. Before leaving Worsley talked about the risks he



HENRY WORSLEY: I won't have somebody to ask whether we should stop, how are you feeling, shall we go on, shall we take a break? Everything will be up

to me. And I think that black and whiteness of the decision making will be - will be very apparent from the outset.

ASHER: Documenting every step on line, the former army officer covered nearly 1500 kilometers on foot, braving severe cold and winds, dragging a

sled behind him. 71 days into his solo trip, and less than 50 kilometers from the finish line, a weakened Worsley decided he could not go on,

posting this audio on his website.

WORSLEY: My journey is at an end. I have run out of time and physical endurance, and the simple sheer inability to slide one ski in front of the

other to travel the distance required to reach my goal. My summit is just out of reach.

ASHER: Suffering from exhaustion and severe dehydration, Worsley called for help and was air lifted to a hospital in Chile. His wife said that on

Sunday he died from complete organ failure.

Worsley had the backing of Britain's royal family. Prince Harry even trekked to the South Pole with the veteran's group in 2013. Prince William

said that he and his brother were saddened by the news saying in a statement "Henry Worsley was a man who showed great courage and

determination and we are incredibly proud to be associated with him. We have lost a friend, but he will remain a source of inspiration to us all."


GORANI: Zain Asher reporting there. Just a reminder for this evening, Chris Cuomo moderates the Democratic Presidential Town Hall on CNN. It will

feature of course Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, and Martin O'Malley. It's at 9:00 p.m. Eastern, so it's a little middle of the nightish for our

European viewers but you can catch it again at 1:00 p.m. CET tomorrow on CNN.

Well, this has been "The World Right Now." thanks to everyone for watching. A lot more on the markets and on the tanking price of oil on Quest Means

Business with Maggie Lake, up next, live from New York.