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Clinton, Sanders Sharpen Attacks, Point Out Differences; Interview with Charles Chamberlain; Interview with Bernard Whitman; Grand Jury Clears Planned Parenthood, Indicts Activists; Ted Cruz Looks to Shore Up Votes in Iowa. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired January 26, 2016 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[10:00:27] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now in the NEWSROOM, Democrats drawing contrast.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Experience is important. But judgment is also important.

COSTELLO: Fighting for the White House and the future of the party.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There are very different visions, different values, different forces at work.

COSTELLO: But the frontrunner facing skeptics.

TAYLOR GIPPLE, APPLICATION DEVELOPER: Quite a few people my age that they think you're dishonest.

COSTELLO: Plus, Trump unstoppable? That is not coming from the Donald. Try his closest competitor. But Ted Cruz has a brand new tactic.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: How stupid are the people of Iowa.

COSTELLO: Use Trump's words against him.

Also backfire. The pro-life activist who made Planned Parenthood sting videos facing criminal charges themselves. One of them accused of purchasing human organs.

Let's talk. Live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, and Martin O'Malley, they traded jabs, they talked policy and they even complimented one another, all without ever being on the stage at the same time.

Here's the best of the CNN Democratic presidential town hall in under two minutes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: How you feeling a week out?

MARTIN O'MALLEY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm excited.

SANDERS: My wife told me to button my coat but I think I'm too fat, so --

CLINTON: We are all on the Democratic side having a spirited debate about the issues we care about.

SANDERS: The most significant vote and issue regarding foreign policy that we have seen in this country in modern history was the vote on the war in Iraq. Hillary Clinton voted for the war in Iraq.

CLINTON: Well, first of all, I have a much longer history than one vote which I've said was a mistake.

SANDERS: Experience is important, but judgment is also important.

CLINTON: I think the American public has seen me exercising judgment in a lot of other ways?

O'MALLEY: I am the only one of the three of us who has a track record, not of being a divider but of bringing people together to get meaningful things done.

CLINTON: I have a really long history of taking on all kinds of inequality. And when I went to Beijing in 1995 and said human rights were women's rights and women's rights were human rights, that was a statement about inequality.

CUOMO: You are going to raise taxes, did you --

SANDERS: Yes. We will raise -- we will raise the -- we will raise taxes. Yes, we will.

CLINTON: You have to have somebody who is a proven -- proven fighter.

SANDERS: If you look at my record in terms of fighting for women's rights, I think there are very few members of Congress who have a stronger record. It's 100 percent lifetime.

O'MALLEY: You know what I believe is the biggest issue that I think you should be concerned about as a young person who has more time on this plane than I do? And that is climate change.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which of our previous presidents has inspired you most and why?

CLINTON: Sorry, President Obama. Sorry, Bill. Abraham Lincoln.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. Let's bring in CNN Politics executive editor Mark Preston. He's live in Des Moines this morning.

Mark, what was the big takeaways?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR: Well, first of all, I'm not sure if I'd want to be Hillary Clinton around the breakfast table with Bill Clinton after she chose not to choose him as the best president.

Look, Carol, you know, oftentimes after these types of events you have the campaigns come to you and try to spin that their candidate did better. But I've got to tell you what, in many ways I think they all did very well last night. And that's not something that you can often say. I think Bernie Sanders did a very good job of showing his personality, kind of, you know, erasing a little bit of his gruffness, and in some ways his Larry Davidness, you know, which is endearing.

I think Hillary Clinton was very focused and she certainly was a lot better than we saw in her last debate where she seemed to be a little bit withdrawn. Martin O'Malley as well had a good night. The problem for him is that it might be a little bit too late for him.

The bottom line is the walk away from last night is if you are a Hillary Clinton supporter, you're still a Hillary Clinton supporter. If you're a Bernie Sanders supporter, you're still a Bernie Sanders supporter. And it just shows you how close this race is here right now that these two are fighting it out here in Iowa and really in these closing days we're going to see them crisscrossing the state, trying to get those last bit of support to try to take them over the finish line.

COSTELLO: All right. So is this Martin O'Malley's swan song, do you think?

PRESTON: You know -- you know, it will be interesting to see what happens. A very interesting question was brought up last night by our colleague Chris Cuomo when he asked him, you know, what would you tell your supporters to go caucus with? Who would you tell them to support because it doesn't seem right now, you know, based upon the polls that you're going to win and clearly that's the case.

[10:05:12] And Martin O'Malley really stood his ground and said, you know, I'm going to tell them to continue to fight on. But the question is, how much longer can Martin O'Malley fight on. He needs money, he needs support, and right now all the oxygen is being sucked up by Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders, Carol.

COSTELLO: And he's at, what, 2 percent?

PRESTON: Yes, you know, it's -- yes, 1 percent, 2 percent, 3 percent. But that's just not enough. Just really not enough.

COSTELLO: No. Mark Preston, thanks so much.

All right. Let's talk about Bernie Sanders. He was unapologetic last night when he said he would indeed raise taxes. His argument, a tax hike would pay for the cost of his single-payer Medicare for all proposal.

With me now to talk about all of this is Charles Chamberlain. He's the executive director for Democracy for America. His organization is backing Sanders.

Thank you so much for being here.

CHARLES CHAMBERLAIN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, DEMOCRACY FOR AMERICA: Thank you for having me on.

COSTELLO: Sanders wants to revamp Obamacare to a single-payer system. Is Senator Sanders forgetting how much Republicans despise Obamacare? A reminder.

CHAMBERLAIN: Well, I think the --

COSTELLO: Well, let's listen to the reminder first before you get into the question. I'm sorry. Here's Paul Ryan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), HOUSE SPEAKER: We are confronting the president with the hard, honest truth. Obamacare does not work. It has to go. Higher premiums, fewer choices, restricted access. These are not signs of success. These are signs of failure. And the American people, the American people deserve better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So Republicans who control both Houses of Congress have voted to repeal or roll back parts of Obamacare 60 times. So how exactly will Sanders manage a single-payer plan?

CHAMBERLAIN: You know, I think one of the key things that made it so that Obamacare could be vulnerable to attacks is the idea that it has to be framed. People don't know what it is. What's exciting about Bernie Sanders' proposal is that it's based off of Medicare. Medicare is something that everybody knows. And in fact, Medicare works. It's a hugely successful program, and the many millions of seniors that are on it know how successful that program is and how good it is for them.

And what Bernie Sanders' plan is to make it so Medicare is available to all. That's going to be hard to demonize. That's going to be a hard train to stop once it goes down the tracks. That's why I think those of us who are supporting Sanders --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Well, but still, even many Republican governors across the country, like, aren't buying into the Medicare idea even now under the current Obamacare program.

CHAMBERLAIN: Right. So the expansion of Medicaid and Medicare through Obamacare was done in a way where governors are allowed to reject it. The key to Sanders' proposal is that if governors reject it, then it just gets built by the federal government instead, much like the exchanges in Obamacare, but unlike Medicaid, it can't be rejected. It has to actually happen.

So in the Medicare plan, Medicare for all plan like Bernie is proposing, it would make sure that everybody has coverage whether you have a Republican governor or not.

COSTELLO: Senator Sanders also wants to raise taxes on the wealthy. He made that very clear. Again both Houses of Congress are controlled by the Republicans. They're really not into tax hikes on the wealthy. So how can he get that through Congress?

CHAMBERLAIN: I think it's really valid to ask how any of the candidates are going to get their stuff through Congress. I mean, whether it's Clinton or Sanders. Both of them are going to have to work with a divided Congress that is going to be hell bent on beating them and not letting them achieve any real goals.

And I think the reason why we can expect to see Bernie Sanders have a lot more success than I think other candidates that are talking about it is because of this political revolution he's building. Millions of Americans nationwide that are backing him up and working hard to make it happen. I mean, the reality is that even if you look at something like Obamacare, it passed because millions of Americans, huge amount of support from many of the very popular provisions in the bill made it possible for them to actually get it through against Republican opposition then. We can do it again now.

COSTELLO: I just remember how bitter the fight was. It's very clear in my mind still.

Let's talk about voters supporting Sanders because we know he has many voters in Iowa and New Hampshire supporting him. But not so much in the Midwest. In fact Bernie Sanders plans to go to Minnesota. The "Minneapolis Star Tribune" has a poll that shows Hillary Clinton beating Sanders by a whopping 34 points.

So how can Bernie Sanders overcome that in the middle part of this country?

CHAMBERLAIN: Well, when this campaign started in Iowa, Bernie Sanders was beaten by Hillary Clinton by like 50 points. He's been an asterisk in the polls when he get started and what happens is as you continued throughout the campaign is that people get more and more familiar with who Bernie Sanders is and what it is his positions are. And as that happens, you see him jump in the polls and rise to the point where he's ahead in New Hampshire, he's within striking distance in Iowa. I think we're going to see that happen across the country as people get to know him throughout the campaign.

[10:10:06] COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there.

Charles Chamberlain, thanks for stopping by. I appreciate it.

CHAMBERLAIN: You bet. Thanks for having me.

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: You're welcome.

On the Clinton side of the equation, trust is still an issue. That was obvious by the very first question posed to Clinton at CNN's town hall.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GIPPLE: I've heard from quite a few people my age that they think you're dishonest.

CLINTON: I've been on the front lines of change and progress since I was your age. I have been fighting to give kids and women and the -- and the people who are left out and left behind a chance to make the most out of their own lives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: With me now, Bernard Whitman, he's a Democratic strategist and branding expert. He's also a former Bill Clinton pollster.

Thanks for being here, Bernard.

BERNARD WHITMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Thanks for having me, Carol.

COSTELLO: OK. So, Hillary Clinton's argument or answer to that young man, it perhaps appealed more to older voters because it appeared -- it appeared she was saying something like hey, you young whippersnapper, take a look back at what I've -- all I've done. I don't think that will resonate with those younger voters that Hillary Clinton wants.

WHITMAN: Here's why I actually think it will resonate. I thought Hillary Clinton killed it last. Why? She was powerful, she was passionate, she was principled, she was clearly prepared, and most importantly, she was presidential. And if you look at that stage and the Republican stage, she is the only candidate out there today that could actually be ready to take office on day one. If you compare her --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: But then going back to -- going to that trust issue and that young man, like how do you -- how do you make young voters see your past history without sounding patronizing?

WHITMAN: No, I think - -I think that's a fair point. I think you have -- she has to continue to make clear that she has been on the front lines of the fight working together, reaching across the aisle, being in the trenches. I mean, she was their secretary of state. She helped broker the Iran sanctions to prevent them from getting a nuclear weapon. She brokered a ceasefire in Gaza. She worked across the aisle with people like Tom DeLay.

COSTELLO: But that's not where the trust issue comes in. The trust issue comes in -- you know, in fact this young man's question centered around the e-mail controversy. Right? And her answer to that was, you know, the Republicans, they throw things at me and I'm still standing. But that's not really an answer.

WHITMAN: I absolutely think it is. She has been beaten up in the press by the Republicans for 35 years. And it stands to reason, if you put your neck out --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: But why not just come out and say, you know I'm sorry that I did that? I mean, wouldn't that be a better answer?

WHITMAN: I think she has apologized. She said look, it was a mistake. In my mind, she would have been far better served if she had come out early on and said, you know what, I did it for convenience which she said last night to Chris Cuomo. I wish I had said that earlier. It was stupid, it was dumb. I apologize.

She did do that. But the fact is, most voters, particularly on the Democratic side care about bringing this country together, moving it forward, what are we going to do to defeat ISIS, how are going to evolve Obamacare? I mean, she was literally on the front lines of fighting for health care for all Americans 25 years ago. It used to be called Hillary-care before it was Obamacare. She has a clear record --

COSTELLO: I remember. I do.

WHITMAN: She is the one actually who can bring this country together. And if you look at the Republican side, and even Bernie Sanders, God bless him, I love his philosophy, but his solutions are big government, tax and spend, sock the rich, blame corporations. These are old school, backward looking policies that have been tried and failed.

COSTELLO: Well, let's focus on the blame corporations because Bernie Sanders' talk on Wall Street really resonates especially among young people, right? Clinton's ties with Wall Street upsets many Democrats. According to the "New York Times," Mrs. Clinton has received $3 million in paid speeches and $17 million in campaign contributions over the years. So how can she fight Wall Street and how can she bring an end to income inequality?

WHITMAN: I think the fact of the matter is we need a market economy to push our nation forward. Having said that, we need proper oversight, we need proper regulation. And we need someone with experience that can bring the proper oversight, but to simply engage in class warfare to kill corporations, that would send a chilling effect in the economy. It would actually cost jobs because corporations would pull back from investing. Innovation would decline, and people would be thrown out of work.

I think Hillary Clinton understands that you need oversight, you need guidance, you need regulation, but you can't simply engage in popular class warfare.

COSTELLO: But what about those huge speaking fees from Wall Street? WHITMAN: I don't think it's any -- look, this is a woman who's given

her entire career to public service. The fact that in the few years that she was out of public service, she gave speeches and made money, I think that that's fine. I think most Americans say, you know what, if you can use your expertise and you have a voice and you can go out and be paid for it, there's nothing wrong with that. She's fully disclosed all of her speaking fees, she's fully disclosed the money that she's made. I don't think there's any conflict of interest at all.

COSTELLO: So if Hillary Clinton loses Iowa, do you think that's -- that is possible, right?

WHITMAN: It's absolutely possible. But look --

COSTELLO: Yes. Because Sanders is doing very well.

WHITMAN: Don't forget, the country is littered with past presidents who lost Iowa. The fact if she loses Iowa, that would be unfortunate, but we go on quickly to New Hampshire, to South Carolina, to Nevada.

[10:15:05] And, as your poll in Minnesota pointed out, she is ahead not only in most of the states that come after Iowa and New Hampshire but nationally she's got a huge one. So I think that the real fact is Hillary Clinton will be the Democratic nominee. The question is, who is best positioned in fact to ensure that we don't get a President Donald trump or a President Ted Cruz?

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: Bernard Whitman, thanks for stopping by.

WHITMAN: Thanks, Carol.

COSTELLO: I appreciate it.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, a shocking twist in those undercover videos that targeted Planned Parenthood. Today it's the clinic that is exonerated and the anti-abortion activists who are facing charges.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:20:12] COSTELLO: A legal bombshell on the impassioned debate over Planned Parenthood and those secretly recorded videos. A Texas grand jury has cleared the clinic of illegally selling fetal tissue as the undercover activist claimed. Instead the grand jury indicted the antiabortion filmmakers themselves. And that's igniting a whole new firestorm.

Joe Johns is a CNN senior Washington correspondent, he has more for you this morning.

Good morning.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Call it a turnabout, call it a real twist in this continuing story of an antiabortion activist and his group, the Center for Medical Progress, and their undercover videos claiming to expose illegal activity by Planned Parenthood. The grand jury in Harris County, Texas, started out looking at Planned Parenthood but ended up setting its sights on the people making the videos.

David Daleiden, the most visible member of the group, and Sandra Merritt, one of the employees indicted on the felony charge of tampering with a governmental records, specifically using fake California driver's licenses to get access to Planned Parenthood in the first place. Daleiden also charged with a misdemeanor for illegally offering to buy human organs.

Planned Parenthood cleared of the allegations it broke fetal tissue research laws was out this morning on "NEW DAY," essentially saying, I told you so.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAWN LAGUENS, EXECUTIVE VP, PLANNED PARENTHOOD: Now this grand jury has made clear what we've said for three years, David Daleiden and the Center for Medical Progress worked to create a fake company, fake identities, lied and engaged in a criminal conspiracy, and when they couldn't find anything, they made it up, and now that's out there for all the world to be clear on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: Those videos have ignited congressional investigation, political outrage, especially on the right, which continues today. Mike Huckabee tweeting, "It's a sick day in America when our government punishes those who expose evil with a cell phone yet accommodates those who perform it with a scalpel."

The Center for Medical Progress claimed on its Web site that they use these techniques that investigative journalists use and that Planned Parenthood made admissions in the videos about fetal organ sales. Investigations into Planned Parenthood continue including one launched by the state of Texas -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Joe Johns reporting live from Washington. Thank you.

Checking some of the top stories for you at 22 minutes past, living life on the edge takes on a new meaning in California. Residents forced to evacuate their apartment homes yesterday and for very good reason. They're now feet from falling into the Pacific Ocean. The apartment building, that is. Recent storms have been battering cliffs along the state's beaches and Pacifica. Their local government is expected to declare a state of emergency.

Frustrated residents in Sebring, Ohio, are demanding answers. This after officials say the operator of the town's water system waited months before telling the public that unsafe levels of lead had been found in the water in some homes. The state is now sending bottled water and testing kits to the area. Florida state settling the lawsuit filed by a former student who

accused quarterback Jameis Winston of raping her. The $950,000 settlement going to the accuser and her attorneys. The accuser, Erica Kinsman, says she hopes the settlement will lead to changes on campus. The school says it's settling to save money on future legal fees.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Donald Trump says he's getting a powerful endorsement today. Who could it be?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:28:01] COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

Ted Cruz hitting the campaign trail hard in Iowa this morning. Cruz holding several town halls across the state today. Those forums coming at a critical moment in the Cruz campaign as attacks from Donald Trump seems to be having an impact on the polls. Cruz offering this blunt assessment of the GOP race.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If Donald wins Iowa, he right now has a substantial lead in New Hampshire. If he went onto win New Hampshire as well, there's a very good chance he could be unstoppable and be our nominee. So even if you're thinking about another candidate, the simple reality is there is only one campaign that can beat Trump in this state. And if conservatives simply stand up and unite, that's everything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Marco Rubio was also in Iowa holding his own set of town halls. All of it as a new Quinnipiac poll shows a tight race between Donald Trump and Ted Cruz, with Marco Rubio a distant third while Ben Carson and Rand Paul round out the top five.

CNN covering both campaigns. Sunlen Serfaty is traveling with Ted Cruz. Manu Raju is with the Rubio campaign.

Sunlen, I want to start with you, though. Take it away.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, good morning to you. It is this dynamic because the polls are neck-and-neck here in Iowa. It is a large part really defining Ted Cruz's final message to Iowa caucus goers. He will appear here momentarily at the cattle ranch her in Iowa and he'll really try to bring a full force with him. Today he's rolling out the key endorsement of former Texas governor Rick Perry, also here today at all seven stops with Steve King and Bob Vander Plats. Two voices that have a lot of sway here with Iowa voters.

Interesting when Rick Perry decided to endorse Ted Cruz, sources say that was much to do about Donald Trump and his distaste for Donald Trump. And he's already started to preview the message that he will bring for Cruz out on the campaign trail.