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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Naval Medical Center Shooter. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired January 26, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

[11:59:55] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to "Legal View."

We're going to begin with this news that is breaking at this moment. There is an active shooter situation currently at the Naval Medical Center in San Diego. The center's public affairs officer tells us that there are reports three gunshots have been fired in the basement of a building they call Building 26. All non-emergency personnel are right now being urged to stay away from that area. Patients and employees who have appointments or business are being asked to conduct it elsewhere, to stay away from the medical center or to stay home all together.

We have very little information, but we do have eyes in the sky right now from the weather network. We're showing you these aerial pictures. Possibly the building in question, although it's hard to tell exactly which one is building number 26.

Joining us on the phone, CNN law enforcement and military analyst Jonathan Gilliam, who is also a former Navy SEAL. He is familiar with this facility. And also with me on the phone is CNN law enforcement analyst and former FBI assistant director Tom Fuentes.

So, Jonathan Gilliam, I'm going to begin with you. With such little information, I just want to - to ask you what your thoughts are. There was something that came out in a tweet that I - I saw to be pretty jarring. This is the tweet officially from the Naval Medical Center San Diego saying all non-emergency response personnel are asked to stay away from the compound. All occupants of the building are advised to run, hide or fight.

JONATHAN GILLIAM, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT (via telephone): Yes, I'm telling you, I was actually pleased to see that particular tweet because they're telling people to take action, whether it be to run, hide, or fight. But they're telling people that something is happening and they need to make a decision. And I think that's a very, very important thing here. And if you tell people, you have to take action, they're more likely to do it and not freeze if they find themselves encountering this type of a situation.

So there are a lot of military people, you know, in that area. That's a hospital where - in that particular area, I believe is a gym - what we call MWR (ph), where you get equipment and stuff if you're going camping. That's kind of a recreational center. And I also think, from just looking online, that there may be the transition assistance program somewhere right around there, where people are transitioning out of the military. I'm not positive about that, but that's a possibility.

BANFIELD: And so also then, Jonathan, let me know about non-military occupants that might be in that building, who may be less inclined to have that training at the ready in how to deal with a confrontation like this.

GILLIAM: Well, this is where - a huge medical compound is around that area. You also have restaurants. You know, there's McDonald's not far from there and a post office. So you, you know, there's a lot of different stores and things that are in that area, but it's also a medical complex. So you're going to see, like you would in any medical base, lots of people that are, you know, working at these different civilian type locations. And it - I'm not sure now if that's an open post where people can drive through there, but I do know that like any military base there's going to be a lot of civilians that work there.

BANFIELD: And then, Tom Fuentes, I'm not sure if you're on the line with us yet, but as a former FBI assistant director, can you tell me what's going on behind the scenes right now, those who are both inside the building and outside the building, to track down where this threat is and how big it could get?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST (via telephone): Well, the number one issue, Ashleigh, is whether it's actually a real incident. There were reports that three shots were fired from the basement of that building, but there's still just about an hour ago when this started and they have not yet confirmed that there were actually shots fired. And that's part of the problem is, were shots fired? And by the time the response was made, would they have contained a shooter? So could a shooter have fired shots in that building and then run into the other building as part of that compound?

You know, there's 11 separate clinics of this medical center, 18 operating rooms, with 6,500 employees, 400 of them are doctors. So you're talking about an enormous facility. Many, many buildings. And by the time that even the initial police officers can respond to a report of shooting, do they have the person contained if that person actually shot - made shots in that building?

BANFIELD: Jonathan Gilliam, I'm trying to sort of put myself inside one of those operating rooms that Tom Fuentes just referenced. What is the protocol if you are in the midst of surgery and something like this happens?

GILLIAM: I don't know what their specific protocol is, but that's a really good question. It also brings up the - you know, the fact that these are things that we have to contemplate. And in the military a lot of times they do think about these things. But the reality is, SWAT teams working with fire departments, operating rooms trying to figure out how they respond, these things happen over in war zones all the time. And it's lessons that if we haven't learned, we definitely need to learn. I mean, that's a great question. That's something that they should definitely be asking if they're not asking now. [12:05:33] BANFIELD: And, Tom, again, I just want to bring any of our viewers who are just now joining us up to speed. That building in the center of the picture on the right-hand side courtesy of Total Traffic and Weather Network is an aerial shot of Building 26, which - at the Naval Medical Center in San Diego is now reporting shots fired in the basement of the facility. The tweet going out quite harrowing, in fact. And this is, by the way, a FaceBook tweet that's being sent out, or actually just a posting on FaceBook, I should say, that all occupants are advised to run, hide, or fight. That's in the middle of the announcement that an active shooter has just been reported in Building 26.

It's pretty - pretty harrowing to see that kind of admonishment and to chasten those who are in the actual vicinity. Those who had any appoints or had business at this building are asked to stay away. It's hard to see some of the response outside that building right now.

But, Tom Fuentes, I'd like you to dove tail on that - that question I asked already of Jon Gilliam, and that was, what happens to those inside who are undergoing surgery when there is an admonishment like that to run, hide, or fight. You're in the middle of surgery?

FUENTES: Well, I think that you would hope that the head surgeon, in the middle of that surgery, would request surgery to secure the operating room so they can finish what they're doing. They can't just run out the door and leave a patient on the operating table before they're finished. So I think that, you know, that would be the next best choice would be to have somebody come and secure the outer area of the operating area, the operating rooms, and there is 18 operating rooms. We don't know how many, if they were already in surgery at that time, but that would be the question there. Secure the room so they can finish and do what they have to do.

Another issue is that, you know, if you have many hospitalized patients there, they're not going to be in a position to run, hide, or fight. So they're going to have to get security there for them to, you know, establish safety for the patients that may be in bed and maybe not be able to do anything but lay there.

BANFIELD: And, Jon - Jonathan Gilliam, just quickly from you, do you have any idea what the security situation is to enter a building like that, if not that building itself that's in the center of the screen, Building 26? Do you have to go through a metal detector? Do you have to have your bag checked? Can armed people or service members go in and out of that building freely?

GILLIAM: Well, that's a good - that's a very good question. I think, you know, again, I haven't been there in many, many years and it's a hospital, and it's on a compound that is - has somewhat security. And I would - I'm not thinking that there's going to be any type of a security screening to get in there because once you're on the compound, you're going to a hospital. It's just that, you know, they go by hospital rules. So that - that's what I'm thinking. I've never been to a military hospital where I had to be screened to get into the hospital. So I would think (INAUDIBLE) typically - BANFIELD: It just makes me wonder, Jonathan, it makes me wonder how many - how many active service members who might actually be in the premises could help first responders to respond, meaning they - they are armed, and they are capable of helping to track down whoever this might be. Is it normal, in a medical center, albeit a naval - you know, a naval medical center like this - would it be at all normal for service members to have their weapons with them?

GILLIAM: Absolutely not. No. You know, military members, especially - you know, even SEALs, when they check in, they're not carrying their weapons around with them unless they have a concealed weapons carry permit and have permission to have it on that base, which is not the case typically. That's just the way the DOD runs things. So you're not going to be looking at a massive amount of guns all over the place just because it's on a military base. They have security, they have security procedures and they work with law enforcement - local law enforcement to respond.

BANFIELD: Again, if you're just joining us, we are just learning from the Naval Medical Center at San Diego that there is an active shooter situation. Building 26 is that building in the center of your screen on the left-hand side, and that's predominant on the screen on the right-hand side. Two different aerial shots and a ground shot for you.

At this point, people who are being - who are inside are being told to run, hide, or fight. This after reports of three gunshots were fired in the basement of what's called Building 26. This has been going on, apparently, for about an hour.

[12:10:12] I can also tell you, we just received word that there is a childcare facility or at least childcare facilities at the - at the Naval Medical Center. But they are now saying that all childcare facilities at the Naval Medical Center are currently secured. All children are accounted for and are safe.

Three nearby schools, however, have just gone into full lockdown. So if you're in this vicinity, make sure that you check websites for those schools and for the protocol for dealing with your kids that might be at those schools.

But we're continuing to monitor this. I'm going to squeeze in a quick break, gather some information about this. But, again, this is the story in San Diego right now at the medical center there. We're back right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:15:03] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BANFIELD: I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And our breaking news comes to you from San Diego this afternoon. You're looking at some aerial shots of Building 26 at the Naval Medical Center in San Diego. And that is where just over an hour ago shots apparently were fired. Three of them in the basement of that building. And the public affairs officer says that this is an active situation at this point. They're telling all non-emergency personnel to stay away. Stay home. And if you have any business or appointments, not to come anywhere near that building.

Some ground level shots just coming in to us as well outside of the Naval Center. It's very hard for us to really see the response, though, outside the building. But inside the building, this is perhaps the most grave warning to anyone who is inside that building, and it says this, "all occupants are advised to run, hide, or fight." Again, "all occupants advised to run, hide, or fight" if you are inside that Naval Medical Center in San Diego.

I want to go straight to the Pentagon, where our correspondent Barbara Starr is standing by.

Are you learning anything from the Pentagon, Barbara?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: We do have some additional information now, Ashleigh. A U.S. military official telling us that the person who made the initial report of shots being fired is now being interviewed by law enforcement. Security forces are moving through Building 26 also at this hour, clearing the building, going floor by floor to make sure that there is nothing going on there.

There is a distinction being made. The report was shots fired, we are told, not of an active shooter. And this would indicate the possibility that someone heard shots fired. If that proves to be true, and we don't have that confirmed by the military at this point, it may mean that shots were fired and someone ran off. Not that there's an active shooter in the building right now. We simply do not know.

But these military officials telling me that, in fact, they are moving through the building now looking to see what is happening, if there is any threat. We are told that -

BANFIELD: I'm just going to - I'm going to interrupt you for a minute. There's a local police officer updating the media. Let's listen in.

QUESTION: You're with the highway patrol. Can I get your name?

OFFICER PERRYMAN: That's correct. Officer Perryman, p-e-r-r-y-m-a-n.

QUESTION: And is the entire premier locked down, I would say?

PERRYMAN: Yes. There is (INAUDIBLE) other than emergency personal at this point (ph).

QUESTION: Any - any - have they actually found an active shooter on (INAUDIBLE)?

PERRYMAN: I haven't been given any information in regards to that. As I stated, the information I have is extremely limited. I just have the initial report of the active shooter. We were told to respond. And upon arrival here at the scene, we were tasked with the perimeter security or traffic control.

BANFIELD: So, obviously, a - obviously a local update from the California Highway Patrol having secured a perimeter on the outside of that building and one of the - one of the key words that he mentioned, that he was to respond to an active shooter situation.

Kevin Dixon with the U.S. Medical Center, I believe an information officer, joins us on the phone now. Do I have that right, Kevin? Are you one of the PIO's?

KEVIN DIXON, PUBLIC AFFAIRS SPECIALIST, U.S. NAVY (via telephone): I'm one of the public affairs specialists with Navy Regions Southwest.

BANFIELD: What can you tell me about what's happening right now in the medical center.

DIXON: Well, what I have right now is, according to initial reports, a single witness at approximately 8:00 a.m. this morning heard three shots in the basement of Building 26, which is a combination gym and barracks at the Navy's Medical Center, Balboa (ph) Park Facility. Right now we've got first responders and Navy working dog units are on scene clearing the building. The medical center is on lockdown and shelter in place orders have been given for the area. So that's all that I have currently right now.

BANFIELD: Kevin, how many people at this stage do you think are inside that building?

DIXON: I don't have an answer to that. I don't know how many people may have been in the building at the current time.

BANFIELD: And just - just on reference, and I'm not sure if this is sort of your wheelhouse, but at this time of day, 8:00 in the morning when this started on the West Coast, what would be standard? Would we be talking about dozens or hundreds at that early hour?

DIXON: Well, the Naval Medical Center, like any other place, would be, you know, having folks go in for work and whatnot. But I don't have a firm number because I don't actually work over there. I don't have a firm number on the number of people that are in that facility.

BANFIELD: OK, Kevin Dixon, the naval public affairs specialist with the Navy Region Southwest. Thank you for that. I appreciate it.

Tom Fuentes is on the phone with us now. He's our CNN law enforcement analyst and former FBI assistant director.

Tom, I asked before, the concern I had was just about the kinds of security that exists outside of that building. Yes, this is a Naval Medical Center, but also it's a medical center. What kind of weapons might be on base and might be in that building legitimately, if any?

[12:20:19] FUENTES: Well, I think the weapons would be in the hands of any of the law enforcement personnel that the Navy has employed there. So, you know, all of the - the Naval police officers, Naval criminal intelligence - I mean, Naval Criminal Investigative Service, NCIS, you know, obviously, they would be armed and on the facility all the time. But the question is, how many were nearby when this occurred, specifically near that building? And we'll have to wait to hear about that part. BANFIELD: And that - I'm sure that you heard Kevin Dixon reporting to

us that this was in response to a single witness, Tom, hearing three shots. I don't know if that witness is military or civilian, but something happened in that basement, which is a combo gym and barracks, in order to bring forth that kind of a report and then this kind of response.

FUENTES: Well, I think, you know, they're - they are worried also about the fact that like the reports of shot at the naval center, you know, here in Washington, D.C., that they turned out that when they did a debriefing of the witness turned out that it was inaccurate reporting - not necessarily a hoax, but just that the reports weren't necessarily true. And that's what they're going to be looking for here, could the person have been mistaken about what they heard or, you know, especially if you have a gymnasium nearby or other work going on there. You know, could three bangs be a different source than specifically gunshots? And that will need to be determined also.

BANFIELD: Floor by floor clearing reported from our Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, ongoing right now inside Building 26. And also from the public affairs specialist who joined us, there are dogs and first responders also doing a building clearing at this time.

It has been reported from the Naval Medical Center's own FaceBook page that this was an active shooter. That has not changed yet at this time. We're going to continue to monitor this, gather details and be back right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:26:34] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BANFIELD: And our breaking news today comes to us from San Diego. Aerial pictures of something they call Building 26 at the Naval Medical Center in San Diego. Reports came in a little over an hour and a half ago that one witness heard three shots fired in the basement of that building. And immediately security detail was on the move. We can tell you right now that there are trained dogs that are doing a building clearing at this time. It is being called an active shooter situation. And the most harrowing came from the Naval Center itself on its FaceBook post that said, "all occupants of the building are advised to run, hide, or fight."

At this point there's no word on where this shooter might be, or if, in fact, it has been proved that it is a shooter. But at this point the Naval Center - the Naval Medical Center in San Diego is treating this as an active shooter situation. We can tell you thought that the childcare facilities that are apparently in this vicinity have been secured. The quote, "all children are accounted for at this time and are safe."

I want to go to Kyung Lah, who is standing by live from our Los Angeles bureau.

Kyung, I know this was your beat. You were a reporter in this area in San Diego. I don't know if you spent much time on this compound, but it is not just a medical facility. There's a lot more to this collection of buildings.

KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: When you - I mean you can even see in these aerials that we're looking at from our local affiliate, there are a number of tall buildings there. The reason why is, it's a cluster of buildings. It is a place where a lot of people work. The time that this report came out, it was 8:00 a.m. local time. So think about that. a lot of people heading into work. They've got to be rerouted because of this report.

The response here has been intense. Beyond just the concern that there might be a shooter in this building, you have, in this area, a cluster of buildings, but also it's located in Balboa Park. The road that is directly leading into this building, into Building 26, is Park Avenue. From that park, a lot of people drive past that area. They've got to go to the science center. It's where children go for field trips. Just north of that, you have the San Diego Zoo. So there are a lot of people who head into Balboa Park. This is just up the hill from San Diego's downtown. It is also very close to the airport. So a lot of reasons why there has been such a strong response. That's why we're hearing multiple agencies responding to this area. They want to make sure to clear every single floor, Ashleigh, because you have a lot of people who head to this area every single day in San Diego.

BANFIELD: And then also some of the local press in the area, Kyung, have said that this is a - surrounding this particular building is somehow adjacent to a movie theater, a music room, billiards room, cafes. That there would be a lot of people who are not connected to the Naval Center who might be in this vicinity.

Tell me a little bit about the activity outside of the school in the surrounding community and what they're doing about the schools in the area.

LAH: What we've been told is, and we want to stress here that this is a precautionary measure. We are told that three schools are currently on lockdown. And they are three schools that are right near this area. You have San Diego High School, Roosevelt Middle School, as well as Garfield High School. The population of all of those schools that - you know, it's sizable. So they want to make sure that children stay inside while there is this concern.