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Shooting Reported At Naval Medical Center; Sanders Challenges Clinton On Key Issues; O'Malley Says Hold Strong; Town Hall Is Chance To Sway Undecided Voters; Town Hall Participant Sizes Up Candidates; Trump Hits 41 Percent Nationally In Poll; Race Heats Up Six Days Until Iowa Vote. Aired 13-13:30p ET

Aired January 26, 2016 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[13:00:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's noon in Des Moines, Iowa. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington D.C., 7:00 p.m. in Rome, Italy. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

Let's begin with some breaking news out of California right now. The Naval Medical Center in San Diego right now is on lock down. Police say a witness heard three shots in the basement of the building that houses barracks and the gym.

For more, let's get the very latest from CNN's Kyong Lah. She's in Los Angeles. What are you learning, Kyong?

KYONG LAH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, so far, we have not gotten any official word from the naval facility and naval center on any updates since the initial report came out, Wolf.

Let me walk you through how all of this unfolded. At about 8:00 a.m. local time, there was a post on the naval center's Facebook page, a report of an active shooter. And the words that got a lot of people in the area very concerned is that the instructions to the people of the naval center were run, hide or fight. There was an enormous, an enormous law enforcement response. The area went on lock down.

The building started to become extremely concerned. The people who have been through active training shooting -- active shooter training certainly understand that the protocol here is to remain inside, you know, as those words instructed as you see there on the Facebook posting, and to try to understand what exactly happened here.

The schools in the area, there were three of them, they went on lockdown. That lockdown has since been lifted. This is a very dense area. The San Diego zoo is less than a mile away. It is not closed down, though. We understand that everything is operational.

And CNN's Barbara Starr has learned that the building is now being swept. That so far there has been nothing found. That the person who made this initial report is being interviewed. And one thing to stress this (ph) here is that there had been no reports of any injuries. We are waiting from official word from the naval center, though, on any sort of update on what may have started all this -- Wolf. BLITZER: All right, let's hope we get an all clear and get that very

quickly. Kyong Lah, thanks very much.

And now, the race for the White House. Democrats have made their closing arguments and in just six days, it'll be up to the voters in Iowa. The candidates fielded questions in a CNN town hall last night ahead of next Monday's Iowa caucuses.

For Hillary Clinton, it was a chance to totter experience and portray yourself as a proven fighter. Bernie Sanders told the crowd that experience is important but judgment matters as well. He challenged Hillary Clinton's position on a range of issues from climate change to foreign policy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hillary Clinton voted for the war in Iraq. All right, in terms of Wall Street, I fought against deregulation. On day one, I said the Keystone Pipeline is a dumb idea.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator --

SANDERS: OK. I think the Bakken Pipeline and pipelines of Vermont and New Hampshire are dumb and we've got to break out dependence on fossil fuel. Why did it take -- why did it take Hillary Clinton such a long time before she came into opposition to the Keystone Pipeline?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Hillary Clinton was asked by a younger voter about the lack of enthusiasm surrounding her campaign about perceptions that she's dishonest, that from the younger voter. She says, her fight on behalf of everyday Americans has made her a target.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They throw all this stuff at me and I'm still standing. But if you're new to politics, if it's the first time you've really paid attention, you go, oh, my gosh, look at all of this. And you have to say to yourself, why are they throwing all of that? Well, I'll tell you why. Because I've been on the front lines of change and progress since I was your age. I have been fighting to give kids and women and the people who are left out and recognize a change to make the most out of their own lives. And I've taken on the status quo time and time again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: As for a former Maryland governor, Martin O'Malley, he may be down in the polls, but he says he's not out of the race.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN O'MALLEY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So, my message to the O'Malley supporters across this state is this, hold strong at your caucus.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right, let's discuss what was going on at that town hall with our panel. Joining us, Doug Heye. He's a Republican strategist, former Republican National Committee communications director. Angela Rye is a political strategist, former executive director of the Congressional Black Caucus. Angela, what did you think? How did they do?

[13:05:01] ANGELA RYE, FORMER EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, CONGRESSIONAL BLACK CAUCUS: So, a couple things. One is I think that Bernie Sanders had a majority of stand-out moments. So, whether it's anything from his championship basketball days in Brooklyn to standing up and just really connecting with voters even on a friendly level.

I think Hillary Clinton did very well. I think her stand-out moments were talking about foreign policy again demonstrating why she was a break-away candidate and star in these issues as compared to Martin O'Malley and Bernie Sanders.

I thought Martin O'Malley had a disingenuous moment when he talked about standing your ground, basically, at the caucuses. You can't do that. That's against the caucus rules. At some point, if your candidate doesn't have a critical mass, you've got to caucus with another candidate.

I think the other thing that I would mention is, with Hillary Clinton, the young -- not only the youth voter question about the enthusiasm gap and her coming across kind of defensive. I also was very surprised that her team still hasn't tightened up the answer on the e- mails. I think it's time for them to get that a little bit more together.

BLITZER: They've had plenty of time to come up with a little better answer. What do you think?

DOUG HEYE, FORMER RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Yes, it's been almost a year now that we've been talking about the e-mail situation and also just the general lack of trustworthiness that we've seen in poll after poll. These are the central questions to Hillary Clinton's campaign. And if they can't get it right after a year, it may suggest that they don't have right answers for that which is a real problem for them moving forward. She had a lot of strong moments but the central questions of her campaign she still struggles with.

BLITZER: She was really passionate and she was very forceful, especially when she was talking about her experience as --

RYE: Yes.

BLITZER: -- secretary of state.

Bernie Sanders was asked, Angela, how he's going to pay for Medicare for all, a universal health care system that would replace Obama Care, Medicare right now available for seniors. But he wants it available for everyone. He was asked how he is going to pay for it. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: We will raise the -- we will raise taxes. Yes, we will. But also, let us be clear, of course, because there's a little bit of disingenuity out there. We may raise taxes, but we are also going to eliminate private health insurance premiums for individuals and for business.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: So, in this answer, he didn't just say raise taxes for rich people.

RYE: Right.

BLITZER: He said, raise taxes basically for the middle class, for everyone else. That's not something you often hear from a politician.

RYE: It's not that I think that Bernie Sanders' honesty, whether we like his policy proposals or not, are the very reason why he continues to do well. He doesn't really hide the ball and he tells you straight up if there is an issue.

I think that another thing that I appreciated about his debate -- or his town hall performance last night is he didn't come across as defensive at all. I was interested to see that some of the positions that would be deemed socialist, right, have not been asked -- or weren't asked yesterday, including his position on reparations which, as we know, (INAUDIBLE) just put out a piece on this.

So, I was surprised that that didn't come up, whether in the audience or not, there were four black books that asked questions yesterday and some of which are kind of in line with this.

BLITZER: In fairness to Bernie Sanders, he says, yes, he's going to raise taxes. But he's going to eliminate the need for anyone in the United States to pay health insurance premiums. There won't be any health insurance companies because the government is going to take care of all of that. So, if you're paying, he gave the example, $10,000 a year for health insurance premiums, maybe your taxes will go up $5,000. So, there will still be a net savings to the average American family of $5,000.

HEYE: Yes, I think so many people who have seen their premiums go up or their -- or their deductibles go up under Obama Care, don't think that when the government gets more involved that that'll necessarily happen.

But what we saw with Bernie Sanders was that is if he's the nominee, a Republican ad waiting to happen. All you had to do was make that quick clip and you can run that against Bernie in state after state and it will damage him. It certainly damaged Michael Dukakis when he pledged to raise taxes.

BLITZER: Dog gone it, Angela Rye, high Rye. RYE: Hey.

BLITZER: Good to have you guys here with me. Thanks very much.

Many of the people at the town hall said they were undecided so this was a chance for the to size up the candidates. Ron Edwards is an attorney, an undecided voter who took part in the town hall. He's joining us now from Des Moines.

Ron, you asked Senator Bernie Sanders a question about grid lock here in Washington. Let me play that exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RON EDWARDS: As president, what specifically will you do to overcome the resistance, cure the grid lock and garner the necessary support to implement your initiatives and actually get something done in Washington?

SANDERS: Great question. Let me answer it, if I might, in two ways. I am probably the most progressive member in the U.S. Senate. But I have, over the years, not only in the Senate but in the House, worked with Republicans when there was common ground. When I was in the House, in a number of years, I got more amendments passed on the floor of the House working with Republicans than anyone else. I was number one and number two.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Ron, were you satisfied with the way Senator Sanders answered your question?

EDWARDS: Senator Sanders certainly responded to the question. I wasn't really satisfied with the answer and the reason is I think it was -- it was more of a leadership question. We need -- the American public is really sick and tired of being sick and tired. The process is not working for them and Americans recognize that.

[13:10:09] And so, we need leadership that will come in, understand the differences, be able to garner the support, work with Republicans across the aisle to get things done. He gave plenty of examples regarding his ability to work across the aisle in Congress. I think it is another level when talking about the executive branch working with a Congress that is controlled by the opposite party.

BLITZER: You said you were undecided going into that town hall. Are you closer to making up your mind?

EDWARDS: I am. I think I'm leaning toward Hillary for two predominant reasons. One, electability in the general election. I think Hillary Clinton came strong yesterday. She was excellent in terms of how she answered the questions, even when there were questions regarding her trustworthiness and her integrity. She responded to those questions strongly. And second, leadership ability. She touched upon a point regarding her willingness to reach out and build relationships with members of Congress and I think that's a critical missing element that we have not been seeing over the course of the past few years. That's not a commentary necessary on Obama -- the President Obama administration. But t's really something that must be done in order to cure the gridlock that we're seeing in Washington. So, we have to reach out, build the relationships in order to build momentum.

BLITZER: You're in Iowa. Among Democrats in Iowa, likely caucus goers, based on your just anecdotal evidence, the fact that Bernie Sanders describes himself as a Democratic socialist, how's that playing?

EDWARDS: I think many Americans are nervous and afraid of the word, socialism. And I'm not sure that will play in the general election. I think it will impact his campaign negatively. It's something that I think will be a struggle not only for all Democrats -- not only for middle of the road Democrats or undecided Democrats, but I think it will be a challenge for all Americans.

BLITZER: Ron Edwards, thanks very much. Thanks for participating in our CNN town hall last night.

EDWARDS: Thank you.

BLITZER: Coming up, Donald Trump stepping up his attacks on Ted Cruz, calling him nasty, calling him a liar in my interview with the Republican presidential frontrunner. That's coming up.

Plus, Rand Paul optimistic he'll make the main stage for this week's Republican presidential debate. He's standing by to join us live. We'll discuss his strategy and last minute efforts to woo voters, caucus goers in Iowa.

[13:12:47]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:16:51] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Let's get to the Republican battle for the race for the White House right now. More evidence that Donald Trump is tightening his grasp on the race, at least in the polls. In a brand new CNN/ORC national Republican poll, Donald Trump has now tied his high water mark with 41 percent. Texas Senator Ted Cruz looks to be a distant second at 19 percent. No one - no one else, not even Florida Senator Marco Rubio, is hitting double digits in this new CNN poll.

Also out today, a new ABC News/"Washington Post" poll. In that one, Donald Trump has a smaller lead, but not by much. He's at 37 percent nationally with Ted Cruz, second place, 21 percent.

The back and forth between Trump and Cruz is hitting an especially heated tone only a few days before the Iowa caucuses. There's a new Cruz ad in Iowa taking direct aim at Trump saying he's pro-abortion rights, that he thinks Iowans are stupid. Trump responded, calling Cruz a liar.

During my interview with Donald Trump earlier, he called Senator Cruz, quote, a "nasty guy." Here's more of what Trump said about Cruz.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: What do you have that Ted Cruz doesn't have?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, look, I don't want to knock anybody, but he's got a lot of problems. He's got a problem with his Canadian birth. He was born in Canada. It's a real question. And, you know, as you know, Lawrence Strif (ph) from Harvard and many other lawyers are saying he can't do what he's doing. He's not allowed to run. And you have some lawyers that say definitively, he cannot run. That's a big problem.

BLITZER: Is that why his numbers have gone down in Iowa?

TRUMP: I don't know. I think it has an impact because I think they said 36 percent of the people agree that he can't run for president. He was born on Canada - in Canada. And he was born on Canadian soil. Now, he can run for prime minister of Canada, but I don't think he can - I honestly don't know if he can run. And there's a question mark. And, you know, if he ever got the nomination, the first thing that will happen, the first day, the first week, will be, he will be sued by the Democrats and that's going to be it. I mean, you know, what are they going to do, go two years and nobody's going to know? It will take years to go through the court system. So he should solve that problem.

In addition to that, he has the Goldman Sachs problem where he borrowed a lot of money. He never said it. Then he borrowed money from Citi Bank. He never told anybody. He never disclosed it.

BLITZER: He did disclose it to one entity in the federal government, but not to another.

TRUMP: He didn't put it in his personal disclosure form, OK, financial disclosure form. And you've got to do that. I mean you've got to do it. He's got two banks. But he didn't do it for a reason. He didn't do it because he doesn't want people to see that he's borrowing from banks that he's supposed to be regulating.

At a certain point, you've got to make deals. We can't have a guy who stands in the middle of the Senate floor and now every other senator thinks he's a whack job, right, you know? You have to make deals. You have to get along. That's the purpose of what our founders created. And Ted cannot get along with anybody. He's a nasty person. You don't see that. And even when he was supportive of me, I kept saying, watch what's going to happen, he's a nasty guy. And he brought it up at the debate. He started it. I finished it. But he brought it - you know, he started getting very bad at the debate. And then he tells lies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right, joining us now is Bob Vander Plaats. He's executive president of the Family Leader, a conservative group. He's also a key supporter of Senator Ted Cruz in Iowa.

Bob, thanks very much for joining us.

I want you to respond to some of the specific points that Donald Trump said in that interview. First of all, the issue of the fact that Ted Cruz was born in Canada.

[13:20:08] BOB VANDER PLAATS, CRUZ SUPPORTER: You know, that's not an issue here in Iowa. Everybody knows that Ted Cruz is eligible to run for president. Donald Trump even said Ted Cruz is eligible to run for president until Cruz closed in on the polls. That's a non-issue here for the Iowa caucuses.

BLITZER: What about the issue of Ted Cruz not formally notifying authorities as far as his - the loans he was getting from Citi Bank and Goldman Sachs? He told one government entity, but not another government entity as he was running for Senate from Texas.

VANDER PLAATS: Again, that's a nonissue because I think what it is, is everybody understands the FEC filing reports and how easy it is to make an error like that. But what it was is, Ted Cruz was borrowing on margin from the assets that he had. I think the bankruptcies of Donald Trump are much more of an issue than Ted Cruz's filing on - for the U.S. Senate campaign.

BLITZER: What about the fact that Cruz, accused of being a nasty guy, he's a liar, because of the whole issue of eminent domain? Trump says there wouldn't be roads, there wouldn't be railroads, there would be pipelines if there weren't eminent domain. And he says Cruz is simply lying on that.

VANDER PLAATS: That's a big issue in the state of Iowa. We have a lot of private property with Iowa farmers here and we don't want to see that private property seized so that Trump can build a casino here. And so that's a big issue and it's sticking in Iowa, and Trump sees that it's sticking in Iowa.

BLITZER: And the fact that he - Cruz says that - that Trump says Cruz don't get along with any of his colleagues in the Senate. He couldn't make a deal. He's hated by everyone in Washington. What's your response to that?

VANDER PLAATS: What's interesting is, you look at the polls, Ted Cruz has 78 percent favorability rating. The highest of any Republican running for president right now. It's off the charts. Way higher than Donald Trump. So what Donald Trump was doing, he's making a living off going for his campaign of attacking the establishment, but now he's embracing the establishment saying, let's make a deal. Some things aren't up for making a deal, the art of a deal on life, or on marriage, or religious liberty or for heaven sakes the Constitution. That, again, I think is going to bold very well for Ted Cruz in these waning days to the Iowa caucuses.

BLITZER: here's what Senator Cruz said on the campaign trail yesterday about Donald Trump. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If Donald wins Iowa, he right now has a substantial lead in New Hampshire. If he went on to win New Hampshire as well, there's a very good chance he could be unstoppable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: You agree, that if Trump wins Iowa, he'll probably go on to win New Hampshire, then South Carolina, Nevada? That it would be - Trump would be the Republican nominee?

VANDER PLAATS: I do believe Iowa is a watershed moment. It's down to two men, between Trump and Cruz. If Trump does win Iowa, goes on to win New Hampshire, historically, if you win two of the first three, you're most likely going to be a nominee. So I think Ted Cruz is very practical and he's showing good judgment that this is the reality. So Iowans need to come out, send a message to America, send a message to the world, that we have a higher standard for the White House and we want to see a principled, pro-family conservative get in. And that's why I think you're going to see Iowans rally on caucus night around Ted Cruz.

BLITZER: I want to give you a respond to Ted - to Donald Trump, I should say. He tweeted about you today. It's not unusual. He likes to tweet, as you know. He writes - he writes this, "why phony @bobvanderplaats tell his followers all the time he asked for him and his family to stay at my hotels - didn't like paying." Why doesn't phony Bob Vander Plaats let his followers all the time know that you tried to get free rooms at his hotels. Basically that's what he's saying about you. What's your response?

VANDER PLAATS: Well, first of all, it's Trump being Trump. His friendship comes with strings. He was very insistent to me and my wife in regards to a couple we went to New York, make sure you stay at my place. I'll put you up, all that. But what bothers him is I'm not willing to give him my endorsement over that. I still consider Donald Trump a friend because my friendship doesn't come with strings. But I want somebody who's solidly pro-life, someone who's going to stand up for marriage, someone who will stand up to the courts and appoint Supreme Court justices. So I think it's just Trump being Trump and showing how desperate Trump is right now because he sees that he's probably going to lose Iowa.

BLITZER: If he's the Republican nominee, will you vote for him?

VANDER PLAATS: It depends. I mean character gets revealed. And what he's doing, he's revealing a lot of character right now in this campaign. And so when he says that he likes veterans who weren't captured, when he makes fun of people with disabilities, whether it be journalists or otherwise, or he has the prideful and arrogance to say he could go out and shoot somebody and he wouldn't lose support, that lends itself to a judgment and a temperament that I think all Americans have to take into question about whether he should be president or not.

BLITZER: So you're not ready at this point to make a commitment that if he's the Republican nominee you will definitely vote for him?

[13:25:02] VANDER PLAATS: Well, today, Wolf, after a couple of those tweets by Donald Trump, it's probably not the best time to ask me that. I do believe, though, at the end of the day, we're all going to be on the same team.

BLITZER: Bob Vander Plaats, thanks very much for joining us.

VANDER PLAATS: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Bob Vander Plaats is a supporter of Ted Cruz.

We have invited Ted Cruz to join me on several occasions. Hopefully we'll be able to connect pretty soon, do an interview right here on CNN.

And, by the way, you can see much more of my interview with Donald Trump coming up later this hour, including what he thinks of the race in Iowa, the prospects, a former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg getting into the race. We'll share that with you as well.

But up next, Kentucky Senator Rand Paul. We've invited him many times. He always accepts our invitations to talk about the race for the White House. We'll talk about Trump, Cruz, a whole lot more. Rand Paul is here. We'll discuss, when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:30:02] BLITZER: With only six days to go until the Iowa caucus goers make the first concrete choice in the 2016 presidential election, the top three Republican candidates, at least according to the polls, Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, and Marco Rubio, they're spread out across