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Europe Struggles With Persistent Refugee Influx; Denmark Approves Controversial Migrant Bill; U.S. Democrats Face Voters At CNN Town Hall; CNN/ORC Poll: Trump At 41 Percent, Cruz At 19 Percent; Madaya Residents Still Starving Despite Aid; Iran Looks To Boost Oil Production Despite Low Prices; Democrats Town Hall Reviewed; Zika Virus Troubles; Woman Killed by Immigrant at Swedish Refugee Center; Examining the Presidential Race. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired January 26, 2016 - 15:00   ET




[15:01:00] HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani. We're live at CNN London and this is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.

All right, we are following two important developments this hour in Europe's migrant crisis, first, this is indignation by some at Denmark's

plans to confiscate valuables from asylum seekers.

Parliament today approved a law that allows the government to seize cash and valuables from refugees to pay for their expenses. Switzerland, for

instance, has a similar law, so does Germany.

We'll also look how the crisis maybe threatening one of the founding principles of the E.U., that is the passport free zone known as Schengen.

European leaders could reintroduce border checks. Now six countries have already tightened borders. New measures that could last two years. We'll

get into the details on that story.

Of course, Europe has been struggling to deal with the influx of migrants and asylum seekers in a cohesive way. Let's get more now from senior

international correspondent, Arwa Damon. She's in Copenhagen in the Danish capital.

Our international diplomatic editor, Nic Robertson is here in London with me. And I want to start, Arwa, with this legislation. It passed

overwhelmingly, explain to us what authorities in Denmark are now allowed to seize from refugees and asylum seekers who enter the country.

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, basically this bill that has been coined the jewelry bill, would allow the police to

search asylum seekers and refugees and confiscate any cash or valuables that are deem to be either of higher amount than or worth more than $1500.

But, this part of the bill is actually very symbolic because simply put, as you know very well, most people do not arrive here with that kind of money,

and jewelry that has sentimental value will not be confiscated from refugees.

But as part of the overall bill whose main intent is really to deter people from coming and what humanitarian groups, aid organizations, and one of the

main reasons why it's coming under criticism is because it extends the waiting period from a year all the way up to three years for an individual

to even begin that process of reunification.

Amnesty International was especially harsh and released this statement right after the bill passed calling it mean-spirited, and saying, that it

is a sad reflection of how far Denmark has strayed from its historic support of international norms and shrined in the refugee convention --


GORANI: All right, we are going to be speaking to a member of parliament by the way on this legislation. We'll get back to you in a moment, Arwa.

Nic is here with us.

Let's talk a little bit about this discussion, a very serious discussion right now about potentially suspending Schengen, reintroducing border

patrols for two years. How close are we to seeing that to happen if indeed a decision is made.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: The rhetoric is all out there already. I mean, European ministers are worried about it.

They're worried that this could break essentially the fabric of European Union.

What they're trying to do here, you've got a number of countries, Denmark is one of them, Sweden another, Norway, Germany, Austria, France, Slovenia,

Hungary, the Netherlands, all of which has sort of temporary at the moment border controls. It seems that European ministers --

GORANI: There's a map of the Schengen countries by the way for viewers. Yes.

ROBERTSON: Look at it the, they're worried without proper planning, because they know that more migrants are coming this summer. They're

worried that this ad hoc situation, which is more snowball that countries are going to take these tough political conditions and throw the border


How do you get out of this problem? You say OK, we've got a problem and you try to manage it by saying, OK, let's figure out the best way to do it,

and put up these border controls. Say we're going to do it, allow ourselves assistance --

GORANI: We're back to pre-Schengen potentially showing passports at the Franco-German border?

ROBERTSON: And all the implications that it can help the business and it would be a radical change. I mean, think of it now, you just jump on a

train in one country and you end up in anther.

GORANI: You end up three countries away sometime. Arwa, I've got to ask you because this is symbolic.

[15:05:03]I mean, first of all, just the logistics of confiscating a ring or a necklace, and then hocking it somewhere and raising money from the

sale of that valuable.

I mean, is this political posturing essentially in Germany? Is this simply a way to satisfy anti-immigration, sort of voters in that country?

DAMON: Well, there is a dimension of it that yes, it does play into the local political dynamics, but it's also playing to this growing fear across

Europe that does exist, this growing anti-immigration sentiment, and we've been seeing the rise of right-winged parties, not just in Denmark, but in a

fair number of other European countries as well.

So yes, there is a political dimension to it, but when it comes to Denmark for example, you know, barring the issue of the confiscation of jewelry.

It's really the family reunification that's going to cause people to think twice about coming here.

I mean, who wants to have to wait at least three years while their loved ones are constantly under fire in Syria, Iraq, or Afghanistan before they

can begin to bring them over. Lawmakers will tell you that the main aim is really to try to make Denmark unappealing.

And humanitarian organizations have called what some European nations are doing as being something of a race to the bottom. The bottom of the

appealing pile of countries if you will.

The issue of course, this is what opponents of the bill are saying, is that this might end up being perhaps a short term solution for Denmark to try to

deter people from coming here, but it's not a solution to the problem.

It's not a problem that Denmark faces in an isolated situation. This is a problem that all of Europe faces.

GORANI: OK. Our senior international correspondent, Arwa Damon, in Denmark, and Nic Robertson, thanks so much to both of you for joining us.

Let's hear directly from a lawmaker who was in on this vote who supported this legislation. Kenneth Kristensen Berth is a member of the Danish

People's Party. He joins us now via Skype from Copenhagen.

Thanks, sir, for being with us. First of all, you support this legislation, but I understand you think it doesn't go far enough, could you

explain your position?

KENNETH KRISTENSEN BERTH, MP, DANISH PEOPLE'S PARTY: Well, the Danish people are in favor of an Australian model, that is a model that says that

people who come to Denmark shall not be permitted to stay in Denmark indefinitely.

And second of all, we would like to say to these people coming to Denmark that they should not focus on staying in Denmark. We'd like to refer these

people to countries in the vicinity of the country where they fled.

We're not interested in getting a whole lot of people who we supposed to integrate, but we know as a fact that is impossible to integrate these

people --

GORANI: Why is it impossible? I'm just curious why you think it's impossible to integrate asylum seekers. What is about them that makes it

impossible for them to fit in, in Denmark?

BERTH: Denmark has taken a lot of asylum seekers since 1983. So has a lot of other Western European countries. We see the same problems all over

Western Europe. The immigrants come and second generation are more crime prone than inhabitants in general are in Denmark.

They have lower frequency of working than Danish people have and we have a rising Islamic problem in Denmark. We have a number of Islamic parties

(inaudible) and so on, who are making it very problematic to integrate people in this country.

GORANI: But your country not only is a signatory of a refugee convention, it was the first country in the world to ratify the 1951 refugee

convention, which compels you not to turn away people who are fleeing war and persecution. Are you advocating that these people who've already fled

a war zone should be turned back and sent home?

BERTH: I'm advocating that we are getting the wrong people in Denmark today. We have seen people who have claimed asylum in Denmark going back

to their countries like Iran for instance, (inaudible) while in Denmark.

You've seen people today demonstrating because they would not like to be sent to (inaudible), but would like to stay in the vicinity of Copenhagen.

People who have those kind of worries are not genuine refugees in my world. We would like to help as many as possible. We would like to help them in

the vicinity of the countries they are fleeing.

There is no reason for people from Syria and Pakistan to go to Denmark. They could as well be helped in Pakistan, in Syria, and Jordan, in Lebanon,

and --

GORANI: But sir, there are millions of Syrian refugees in Turkey, Jordan, other countries, they have no right to work. They can't put their kids in

school. They have no health care.

Of course, it is their right to want to seek asylum in a country that can provide them with better living conditions. Many of them have degrees, and

diplomas and are contributing to society in very productive ways.

[15:10:02]You think all of the 20,000 people who've made it to Denmark are people who are complaining they can't go to discotheques enough? It just

feels like you're painting everyone with a very broad brush.

BERTH: Unfortunately, it's not quite as you say. In Denmark after one year, 3 percent of refugees are employed. After three years, 10 percent

are employed. And so it goes, there are a huge amount of unemployment among the refugees, and second generation too.

We have enormous problems helping these people integrate in our society. In the U.S., you have a president or candidate, Mr. Donald Trump who has

opted for not taking in Muslims at all in the U.S.

GORANI: Do you support that? Do you support that position? Do you think all Muslims should be barred from Denmark?

BERTH: I think that we should only take the people to Denmark who cannot be helped in the vicinity of their neighborhood, their country, their

original country, whether or not they are Muslim or not. I want and the Danish people's party want an Australian market.

GORANI: OK, do you agree with the position such as the one of Donald Trump that for instance, Muslims should be barred from entering Denmark? That

you'd be happier with another group of refugees from countries that you think would integrate better, would that be fair to say?

BERTH: It would be fair to say that in Denmark, Muslims have not done a very good job integrating whereas people from Thailand, Philippines, China,

and so on has done vastly better. They are not as grand as people from the Mideast and Africa. They are better employed, and of course, we do not

have a problem with Islamists along these people.

GORANI: So you're saying that Muslims necessarily create an Islamist problem, is that your position?

BERTH: If you look at how the western part of Europe, would it be fair to say that there are problems with Islam and Islamists' groups all over

Western Europe?

GORANI: I mean, I'm asking you if you think that being Muslim necessarily means that it represents some sort of Islamist menace?

BERTH: And I'm asking you not to disregard (inaudible).

GORANI: All right, well, thanks, sir, for your perspective, Kenneth Kristensen Berth, a member of parliament who voted in favor of legislation

to confiscate the valuables of refugees and asylum seekers in his country. Thanks very much for joining us. We appreciate your time.

BERTH: Thank you.

GORANI: Donald Trump we've just been speaking of him with our Danish politician there. Donald Trump has been the Republican frontrunner for

months now, but a new CNN poll marks a new high for him.

He's reached 41 percent nationally among Republican voters. The first time he's been above 40 in his CNN poll, that's also more than double Ted Cruz's

numbers, 19 percent.

Next is Marco Rubio at 8 percent and do you remember when Ben Carson was riding high? Well, he's at 6 percent now and Jeb Bush at 5.

On the other side of the field, Democratic candidates faced off one last time before next week's Iowa caucuses. The first nominating contest of the

presidential campaign. Brianna Keilar has details.


BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Less than a week away from the Iowa caucuses.

BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This calls for a standing up response.

KEILAR: The Democratic candidates are out of their chairs.

SANDERS: I'm not capable of doing Q & A in Iowa from a seat.

KEILAR: And throwing soft punches in a final pitch to voters.

SANDERS: Experience is important, but judgment is also important.

KEILAR: Bernie Sanders kicking off CNN's town hall, going record to record with Hillary Clinton.

SANDERS: I voted against the war in Iraq. Hillary Clinton voted for the war in Iraq. I led the effort against Wall Street deregulation. See where

Hillary Clinton was on this issue. On day one, I said, Keystone pipeline is a dumb idea. Why did it take Hillary Clinton such a long time before

she came into opposition?

KEILAR: Clinton says one bad vote on the Iraq war is just a scratch, not a dent.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have a much longer history than one vote, which I've said was a mistake because of the way that that

was done and how the Bush administration landed it. But I think the American public has seen me exercising judgment in a lot of other ways.

KEILAR: Former Maryland Governor Martin O'Malley once again fighting for his place in this race.

MARTIN O'MALLEY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am the only one of the three of us who has a track record, not of being a divider, but of bringing

people together to get meaningful things done.

KEILAR: Voters challenging the candidates on key issues.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are you planning to ensure racial equality?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are you going to fight for women's rights?

KEILAR: The Vermont senator clearing up his stance on gun control.

SANDERS: If a gun shop owner should know, why should somebody be buying 1,000 guns? Somebody should be thinking that does not make a lot of sense.

[15:15:05]In that case, that gun shop owner or the gun manufacturer should be held liable.

KEILAR: The former secretary of state leaning on nearly a million miles of travel to prove she's the foreign policy front runner.

CLINTON: I flew from Cambodia where I was with the president to Israel, middle of the night, go see the Israeli cabinet, work with them on what

they would accept as an offer. Go see the Palestinian president, work with him to make sure he'd back it up.

Go back to Jerusalem, finalize the deal, fly to Cairo, meet with President Morsi, the Muslim Brotherhood president of the Egypt, hammer out the


KEILAR: Clinton not only highlighting her record, but defending her character.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've heard from quite a few people my age that they think you're dishonest.

CLINTON: I've been on the frontlines of change and progress since I was your age. I have been fighting to give kids and women and, and the people

who are left out and left behind a chance to make the most out of their own lives.

KEILAR: Throughout the night, one message was clear, dump Trump.

O'MALLEY: We are far better than it the sort of fascist rhetoric that you hear spewed out by Donald Trump.

KEILAR: Clinton taking it a step further.

CLINTON: We need a coalition that includes Muslim nations to defeat ISIS. And it's pretty hard to figure out how you're going to make a coalition

with the very nations you need, if you spend your time insulting their religion.


GORANI: There you have it, the highlights of the town hall. Candidates on both sides are campaigning hard of next week's Iowa caucuses.

Let's go to CNN's Manu Raju who is there. Now, let's talk a little bit about -- we're one week out. You're with the Marco Rubio campaign I

understand, but on the Democratic side, we've had a lot of changes, Sanders and Clinton are really very close to each other. Much closer than they

were just a week ago.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes, it's really a big surprise. Hillary Clinton was really supposed to run away with Iowa. That's of

course the first state that kicks off the nominating contest, New Hampshire being second.

Now New Hampshire, the polls had Bernie Sanders winning pretty handedly given that he's from Vermont and neighboring state, but recently those

polls in Iowa have been tightening.

Now, if Clinton were to lose Iowa and then New Hampshire, it would be a pretty significant blow to our campaign. She probably would still be

consider the favorite, given her support or nationally, but it would have a pretty significant impact.

And it would also raise a lot of questions about whether or not she could bring out her base of supporters in a general election, if she were to win

the nomination.

That just raises the stakes to next week, Monday's going to be a huge night for the Democratic contest, but also of course, Republicans as well.

GORANI: Sure. Now Manu, you're with the Rubio campaign. Now we told our viewers, Trump nationally is at 41 percent which is something very few

people, I think predicted just a few weeks ago.

Before campaigns like Marco Rubio's and those candidates who are really still in the single digits, what is their strategy here? Because it looks

-- are they saying it like looks like Trump is just unstoppable at this stage?

RAJU: Well, that's what Ted Cruz is saying and of course, he's vying for a similar slice of voters that Donald Trump is here in Iowa, very

conservative voters and also Evangelical Christians, who really dominate the Iowa caucuses.

Marco Rubio's strategy is a little bit different. He's trying to almost be the alternative to Donald Trump and to Ted Cruz. He thinks that a good

finish for him next week will be a third place finish in Iowa.

And something that he could take to New Hampshire voters and say, hey, I can be the alternative to Donald Trump, I can unite the party behind me,

and we can take this two-man race.

But in order for Rubio to do that, he really has to have a convincing third place finish here, a convincing second place finish here, and hope that

some of those more establishment, more moderate candidates eventually drop out and their supporters unite behind him.

It's not an easy strategy, it's sort of a long ball strategy, and also depends on whether or not Donald Trump will actually implode. And that's

something we have not seen so far.

GORANI: OK. Manu Raju in Marshalltown, Iowa, that's what I was squinting to see your exact location. Good to talk to you and we'll catch up with

you later.

Despite recent aid, the people of Madaya, Syria, are still starving, just absolutely heart breaking images coming up. Our Nick Paton Walsh joins us

with a view from inside the city and the latest on efforts to alleviate the suffering. We'll be right back.



GORANI: To Syria now, ISIS is claiming responsibility for two bombings in the city of Homs. At least two dozen people have been killed, a hundred

others injured and here it is chaotic aftermath. The Syrian government controls most of Homs and a U.K. based monitoring group saying 15 regime

soldiers are among those who were killed.

About 200 kilometers south of Homs, Syrians living in the town of Madaya are still dying from starvation. The last aid convoy left more than a week

ago. The situation there have been the focus of international outrage.

Our Nick Paton Walsh is with us live from Beirut with pictures from inside Madaya. Very difficult to watch. Nick, tell us more about the video from

inside the besieged town.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Madaya is one of 15 towns the U.N. say is in badly need of food aid, 400,000 Syrians

affected. Madaya had a lot of spotlight, but that has not improved the situation for those who already starving.

Some of which have such severe malnutrition and need hospitals. We got these images from inside the town, filmed up, during, and after the



WALSH (voice-over): Ice has now gripped the town of Madaya, adding to the siege and starvation, gnawing away of what's left of life here. Aid came

briefly along with global attention, but now it's gone. The weak here are set to die.

This is the Dr. Mohammed, he shows us (inaudible), age 50. So malnourished he can't cope with food, only drip feeds. Held here almost a ghost, edging

towards death.

Like his granddaughter, (inaudible) just 9 months old. She seems dazed. We were told two people died in Madaya Monday from hunger but can't confirm


For more than seven months we've not had electricity explained by the doctor but nearly run out of wood. Now plastic is often burned. The

weakest and mobile, Abdullah shows us --

ABDULLAH, MADAYA ACTIVIST: This child is very ill. He eat leaves and get sick and ill and his stomach is really hurting. He needs immediately go to

hospital outside Madaya.

WALSH: With little food here, probably won't save the acutely malnourished who need urgent medical help, but it is handed out slowly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If they don't bring food for people. The people will die for starvation.

WALSH: Here in a makeshift hospital, struggling to keep lights on where they come, hoping to find help. In the past ten days, since the arrival of

relief supplies, the doctor says there would be ten deaths.

Scores of people have arrived at the clinic unconscious. We have around 500 sick people in the town that need hospital treatment. Syrian rebels

have said they won't talk peace until sieges like these by the government are lifted.

[15:25:10]But rebels, too, are besieging other towns in the north, hunger, a weapon of war, leaving 400,000 Syrians without the food they need either

truly alive or dead.


WALSH: Now, hunger of course in this war deeply politicized, there are towns loyal to the government surrounded by rebels (inaudible) is rebel-

held surrounded by the government.

Those images we did our best to verify them. We handed out to people who shot them a copy of the home page of "The New York Times" from the weekend.

We've been declared that they were filmed or also aid workers confirm that some of the people they had met themselves when they went into Madaya


We can't verify the medical circumstances the people you saw are in that video, but it's clear, they are suffering from severe malnutrition.

GORANI: All right. Nick Paton Walsh in Beirut, thanks very much.

And coming up, the pope and the president of Iran meet face to face. We'll tell you how Iran is back on the world stage and betting big on its oil

industry. Stay with us.


GORANI: Well, Iran is stepping back on to the world stage with the recent easing of sanctions, and today Pope Francis welcomed President Hassan

Rouhani at the Vatican.

While President Rouhani looks to rack up business deals in Europe, back home, Iran is looking to dramatically boost oil production. Fred Pleitgen

is in Tehran.


FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tehran's gas stations are almost always busy, the country with some of the

largest oil reserves in the world has also seen a boom in car sales in recent years.

(on camera): While Iran wants to increase its share of the world's oil market, it also wants to drastically increase its capabilities in terms of

refining to make sure they can meet the needs of a growing number of motorists here at home.

(voice-over): Among drivers we spoke to, oil was a major topic and a major point of concern given the low international crude prices. The oil price

is very important, because it affects so many things in our daily lives this woman says.

In my opinion, the low oil price is very bad because it really hurts our economy, she adds. And this man says, it's very bad because so much of our

income is from oil. Analysts say over half of Iran's budget comes from oil revenues.

No wonder with the lifting of nuclear sanctions, Iran wants to export an additional 500,000 barrels per day, even at a time when international crude

prices are tanking.

Some experts fear Tehran's reentry to the market will cause it even further decline, of course, Iran would also make considerably less selling while

prices are down. But analyst, Saeed Laylaz, tells me Iran's hydrocarbon strategy is about more than just money.

SAEED LAYLAZ, IRANIAN ECONOMIST: This is a portfolio agenda for the country, not just economy. This is not the subject of the money, this is

the subject of the share of the market, which is very essential for the country.

PLEITGEN: There is little doubt that Tehran will quickly reestablish itself as an oil power house. Even if revenues start off weak in the

current market climate, Tehran's influence is expected to grow with every additional barrel its able to export. Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Tehran.


GORANI: With Iranian President Rouhani in Rome today, some unusual steps were taken out of quote, "respect for the Iranian leader," but it has

raised many eyebrows.

The capital museums nude statues were covered as he met with Italy's prime minister Monday. The two leaders gave speeches at the museum after forging

some $18 billion in deals.


Covering the statues was a way to make sure they didn't sneak their way into one of the photos or videos. Some Italians say, that it amounts to

hiding culture. And that the prime minister went too far to please his special guest.

GORANI: This is "The World Right Now," coming up .


GORANI: Bernie Sanders speaks about his family and his athletic prowess during CNN's Town Hall in Iowa. Hear what he had to say in a few minutes.

Plus one South American country admits it's losing the fight against the Zika carrying mosquito. We'll be right back.





GORANI: Welcome back, a look at our top stories. Denmark's parliament has approved a controversial law.


GORANI: The government can confiscate cash and valuables from refugees. Proponents say it's only fair that asylum seekers pay their share into the

welfare system. Switzerland and Germany have similar laws. Critics say it is inhumane.


GORANI: A new CNN ORC Poll puts Donald Trump's support with Republican voters at 41%.


GORANI: It is a new high for the real estate tycoon with a more than four in ten GOP voters nationwide now saying they'd back him. Ted Cruz is second

with 19%. Marco Rubio follows with 8%.


GORANI: A killing at a refugee center in Sweden is raising fears about migrants in that country.


GORANI: Authorities are investigating a murder of a 22-year-old woman who worked at a center there. They say a teenage asylum seeker stabbed her to

death. Lynda Kinkade has that story.

LYNDA KINKADE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Police in Sweden comb through this refugee center in the western town of Molndal. Now the scene

of a murder.

Investigators say a 15-year-old migrant stabbed and killed a female worker here on Monday. They're not identifying the male suspect, his nationality

or what may have been behind the stabbing. The teen now faces murder charges.

The victim is 22-year-old Alexandra Mezher, her family originally from Lebanon told Swedish media that she worked at the asylum center for several

months helping unaccompanied refugee children adapt to life in their new country. Sweden's prime minister visited the town soon after the stabbing,

saying he was both saddened and angered by the news.

STEFAN LOFVEN, SWEDISH PRIME MINISTER: (As translated) I believe quite a few people here in Sweden now feel al great worry there will be more

similar cases as Sweden accepts so many unaccompanied minors. Many of those who come here to Sweden have had traumatic experiences. And there are no

simple answers as to how this should be dealt with. But there some important principles that apply.


KINKADE: Monday's stabbing is just the latest in a string of violence incidents involving or targeting migrants in Sweden. In August, two people

were stabbed to death, a third badly wounded at an Ikea store in a town outside Stockholm. Two Eritrean men were arrested and charged with murder.

In October, a masked man with a sword attacked a Swedish school, killing two people in what police called a racially motivated attack. These attacks

and others have sparked concerns that authorities are overwhelmed by the recent wave of refugees.

THOMAS FUXBORG, POLICE SPOKESMAN: (As translated) Many people have newly arrived in Sweden and we have responded to multiple disturbances on a

weekly basis. Around the western region and also in the rest of Sweden. We've had many alarms from asylum centers.

KINKADE: Sweden took in 163,000 asylum seekers last year; in a country of around 10 million people. That's among the highest per capita in Europe.

The Scandinavian nation has since tightened its rules to curb the flow of migrants, and Sweden's national police commissioner is now asking for more

than 4,000 additional officers to help deal with the country's refugee situation.

Lynda Kinkade, CNN.


GORANI: All right. Let's get more now on one of our top stories, that Democratic town hall in Iowa moderated by CNN.


GORANI: You may remember from Monday's show an interview I had with Bernie Sanders's brother Larry. Well some of Larry's anecdotes about his younger

brother were put to the Bernie my moderator Chris Cuomo. Take a look.

CHRIS CUOMO, MODERATOR: Your brother was on CNN today.


CUOMO: He gave a great interview. He says that back in the day you were a great athlete. Is that true? And if so, what was the sport? I'm not saying

I don't believe it to be true, I'm saying is it true and what was the sport. You know families exaggerate a little bit.

SANDERS: I was a very good athlete. I wouldn't say I was a great athlete, I was a pretty good basketball player, my elementary school in Brooklyn won

the borough championship. [applause ] But hardly worth mentioning, but we did, yes. And yes, I did take third place in the New York city indoor, one

mile race. Okay, well, you know, I was a very good long distance runner. I would say not a great runner, but I was captain of my track team, won a

number of cross country meets and certainly won a whole lot of races. So good, very good, not great.

CUOMO: Something else your brother said. He got emotional, he was saying, boy would our parents be proud of the success that Bernie has had. You have

to think about that as well. When you think about why you're doing this and what it means, what does it mean to you about what your parents would think

if they saw you now?

SANDERS: They wouldn't believe it. I mean we grew up, my dad came from Poland at the age of 17 without a nickel in his pocket. Couldn't speak

English, and he never made a whole lot of money. And my brother and I and mom and dad grew up in a three and a half room, rent controlled apartment

in Brooklyn, New York. And we never had a whole lot of money. And. You asked me, you know, Chris, this would be so unimaginable, the fact that I'm

a United States senator would have been beyond really anything that they would have thought possible. The fact that I am running for President of

the United States, you know, I do think about it. And you know, I think they're very proud, but it certainly something that I don't think they ever

believe would have happened.


GORANI: Bernie sanders there and you may remember Larry Sanders really becoming emotional during our chat yesterday thinking about his parents.

What they might have thought if they'd been able to witness their son, Bernie, do so well in U.S. politics.

Let's get more now on the presidential race. I'm joined from Los Angeles by CNN political analyst and legendary journalist, Carl Bernstein. He's also

of course an author. Carl Bernstein, thanks for being with us.

When you see where Trump is right now at 41%, nationwide -


GORANI: Did you ever think it was possible he'd achieve, he'd become this successful in the polls a week away from Iowa?

CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: No. Did not. It's been evident for some time, he's hit a real nerve, not just with Republicans and in fact in

many ways, he is the face of those who identify themselves as Republicans today. But also with other people who are alienated from the system, who

understand that things in this country in our political system are not working, and appealing to prejudices, appealing to xenophobia, appealing to

literally racist appeal at some point. It's not our better angels as Hillary referred to the better angels that Lincoln touched in the

Republican party. Trump is not going after the better angels.


GORANI: But, can you explain Bernie Sanders appeal that way. That he is also tapping into something in the United States, this, you know, from

people who feel ripped off. Who feel like they're not getting their fair share of the pie, who feel like he's speaking for them.

BERNSTEIN: Well, I think - I think that there is some crossover there, but at the same time, Bernie Sanders has put forth a real new kind of movement

about what our politics should be, particularly in the Democratic party. And indeed, he has moved the Democratic party to the left, Hillary Clinton

has moved to most of his positions on the issues, and in fact, they're very much Obama's positions in many cases, particularly about the top 1%. About

economic inequality, they are questions that should have been addressed long ago in our country. This is not George McGovern either, Bernie


We saw yesterday in that debate a remarkable candidate. Personable, fun. He stresses


BERNSTEIN: his judgment against Hillary's lack of judgment as he puts it, in her vote against, her vote for the war in Iraq. He voted against the war

in Iraq. Very significant. This is a real fight, and nobody expected it to be where it is today on either side.

GORANI: Now, we have the possible wild card in the form of Michael Bloomberg, potentially. Thinking about running. He's wanted to in the past.

But if he does enter the race, what do you think would be - would prompt him to do so?

BERNSTEIN: Well, I think from what I hear, from people around him, that if Sanders were the nominee and Trump were the nominee, or it appeared it was

going that way, that he would move for a third party race. I think probably the affect it might be to throw the election into the House of

Representatives where the Republicans in all likelihood would have the majority and would enable them to elect a Republican president.

I think also that he is banking that Hillary might run into some trouble on the so-called server issue.


BERNSTEIN: That was the elephant in the room in the debate last night. The fact it was mentioned, but the server story is not over. There's an

investigation going on. It goes to the question of her judgment. I would be very surprised if there is an indictment of Hillary Clinton, but I would

not be surprised from what things, myself and other reporters are hearing, if there are not -- if through leaks, if nothing else, that there is going

to be an account of how this server situation came to be that is damaging.


GORANI: But if Hillary Clinton runs into massive trouble, it's not just Michael Bloomberg. I mean could we see David Gergen whose advised many U.S.

Presidents, said he wouldn't be shocked if Joe Biden then reconsidered, if there was a sort of (inaudible).

BERNSTEIN: I think that's absolutely possible. I think, look, if Hillary stumbles, I think both Biden and Bloomberg are very likely to make a move.

And at the same time, Bernie Sanders, he is appealing more and more to mainstream Democrats, his message is resonating, and in that debate we got

a look at the whole person.


BERNSTEIN: Perhaps people in Iowa have seen it, but we haven't had as great an opportunity as we did in that format that worked so well the way the

questions were asked one on one there and with the audience.

GORANI: I was going to say, have you -- when was the last time you've covered or observed such a sort of unpredictable, entertaining election?

BERNSTEIN: First of all, I'm lousy with predicting elections. Historically lousy at it.


BERNSTEIN: But look, but look, all Presidential elections in America are interesting. What this is about is about the state of the United States of

America at this moment and how these various Presidential aspirants are trying to tap into who we are today. It is a very divided country, it is a

country in which we have huge problems that we haven't addressed. And we have now two candidates in particular, Trump and Sanders, who are moving in

different directions that we're accustomed to seeing.

GORANI: Carl Bernstein, thanks very much from Los Angeles, thanks very much for joining us. We really appreciate your time on CNN.

BERNSTEIN: Good to be here.

GORANI: We'll take a quick break, we'll be right back. Thanks.




GORANI: We have some new information about the Zika virus, the disease spread by mosquitoes which can cause babies to be born with abnormally

small heads. Now the Arkansas Department of Health is reporting that a person in their state who recently traveled outside the U.S. has tested

positive. That brings the number of cases in the Continental U.S. to around 20.


GORANI: On Monday the Brazilian Health Administrate admitted that his country is losing badly in the fight against the mosquito. Since November,

Brazil has seen nearly 4,000 cases of that neurologic disorder until babies connected to the virus. Shasta Darlington is live in Brazil at a rehab

clinic, she joins me now with more details.


GORANI: Where are you exactly in Brazil and tell us why where you are is effected more than other places in Brazil.

SHASTA DARLINGTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, hi, Hala, we just left that rehab clinic and what we're standing next to right now is this

pool of stagnant water surrounded by mosquitoes and it just gives you an idea of why this is considered ground zero of this health crisis in Brazil.

We're in the state of (inaudible) this is where Zika virus was first detected. This is where doctors first found that link between the virus and

the birth defects. And it's where 40% of those babies that you mentioned, the 4,000 babies have been born is right here. So they're also on the front

line of combatting the virus by tackling the mosquitos. That's because there's no vaccine, there's no cure, doctors and health officials are

telling women to put off getting pregnant in the meantime, while they send troops out onto the streets to go door to door to try and eradicate the

pools of standing water that are the breeding ground. They're throwing chemicals in pools like this to try and kill the larvae.


DARLINGTON: So we've been talking to mothers, we've been talking to doctors, we've been talking to health officials, they're taking this very

seriously. The question is a little too late to really tackle it before the rainy season builds up the mosquito population. And that's what the big

fear is.

So while the health minister said they'll have 200,000 troops out on the street doing this, at this point, how many women have already been

infected? One doctor said and, you know, because this is all so recent, we really don't know that there won't be other repercussions, it's something

that they're still studying and this is of course six months out from the Olympics. So it's just not the kind of image that Brazil wants to be

getting out there in the international media when they're hoping to attract visitors to the international event, Hala.


GORANI: All right, Shasta Darlington, thank you very much in Brazil there. I was having trouble hearing Shasta, I hope our viewers didn't have trouble

there, there was a little bit of traffic noise behind her. But thanks very much for that report. We're going to take a quick break. If you're going to

that part of the world in Latin America, or you may be concerned, stay tuned, our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanja Gupta will join us, he'll

answer some questions about the Zika virus. Stay with us.






GORANI: Let's talk more about the Zika virus, let's bring in chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta for more on how you can catch it and how

you can protect yourself. Dr. Gupta, thanks for being with us. First of all, is it only pregnant women who are at-risk?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, anybody can be infected with this virus, the vast majority of people who get an

infection will either have very mild symptoms or no symptoms at all. I mean that's the good news. About 80% of people won't even know that they've been



GUPTA: About one in five will have some symptoms which can be almost flu- like symptoms. But to your question, the most concerning people who get affect is women who are pregnant and particularly women who are in the

first trimester of pregnancy, and that's because as Shasta was just talking about, they are more likely to have babies who have what is known as

microcephaly. Babies with heads and brains that are just too small.

GORANI: So if a woman is not pregnant and is infected, and then becomes pregnant, can that be transmitted to her unborn baby?


GUPTA: Potentially. It potentially could be transmitted through just within the body. There's question still testing even on whether this could be

transmitted through breast milk. It's unclear that it can be. Remember, we're talking, even though this virus has been around for some time, we're

seeing transpiring relatively recently. So we're still getting data back on this and we'll get more and more information.

You'll remember Hala during West Nile virus, in the beginning, we didn't have as much information, and we got more and more information about

exactly how this behaves as time went on.

GORANI: But I imagine women who want to get pregnant or are planning on getting pregnant and are traveling to that part of the world or live in

that part of the world will want to know, you know if I delay my pregnancy, but I'm infected, you know, they're trying to figure out timeline wise what

to do. People have so many questions.

GUPTA: There's no evidence, right now, what they seem to be able to say is that if you are currently pregnant and you get an infection, that's the

greatest concern, and even more specifically during the first trimester of your pregnancy. And that's because that's when a lot of the development of

the baby is happening at that time and this virus may interfere with that. Subsequent, if you get an infection, if you have an infection now and get

pregnant later on down the road, there's just really no evidence Hala that that would be a problem. I'd hate to suggest that. I mean, I guess anything

is possible, but there's no evidence that that would be a concern.

GORANI: And there's no transmission in it through sex or anything like that, it's not -- or do we not know again? So many questions I'm getting

the sense we're still trying to figure things out here.

GUPTA: I mean what I can tell you is there's been one report, potentially that's been written up, and this has been in the medical journal, one

report potentially of this being transmitted through sex. It's unclear that in fact that was the way that it was transmitted, it could have been that

both people acquired the virus same way which was through a mosquito bite.

And let me remind you again Hala, I'm sure you know this, we're talking about mosquitos biting someone who is infected, and then subsequently

biting someone else and transmitting the virus that way. So the mosquito themselves are just a vector. In that case, in the case I just talked about

this concern about through sex, could it have also been through a mosquito, perhaps. That's what they're trying to figure out.

GORANI: And briefly, the only way to protect yourself, mosquito repellant? I mean is there any other way?

GUPTA: No. That's really the big way. And remember, these are mosquitos that like to bite during the daytime. That might sound like a silly fact,

but malaria mosquitos for example like to bite at night. So using bed nets and things like that are actually really helpful. You don't use that stuff

during the day. So it is mosquito repellant, it is Deet, it is removing standing water at places where mosquitos like to breed and just being

vigilant about that sort of stuff. So that's, it's not, you know -- it doesn't sound like the most complete advice. But that's what their saying

for now, no vaccine, no antiviral, people are working on that.


GORANI: All right, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks very much. Really appreciate it.

For many of us here in London, this is what getting to and from work looks like, packing ourselves onto overcrowded trains for long and frankly

expensive rides on the city's subway lines. You're not going to believe some these crowds, trust me.

Max Foster has this story.


MAX FOSTER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Oxford Circus, the center of London's East End; the beating heart of this global city. Commuters,

tourists, and the iconic double decker buses stream from dawn to dusk. And beneath it all, intersection of multiple metro lines, and down they go some

of the nearly hundred million passengers that make their journey down to this tube station every year. It's not that much fun, but these are the

lucky ones.

For many these days, even making it understood ground is a challenge.

(AUTOMATED VOICE) Congestion, do not enter. Congestion, do not enter.

FOSTER: This is now a common sight for passenger. Gates pulled shut, locked out, frustration palpable.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I had no idea of when, especially when you just finished work and you just want to come home, straight away.

FOSTER: Information obtained by CNN reveals that Oxford Circus had to close on 40% of weekdays in the 12 months to October 2015. Passengers had to wait

an average of nearly nine minutes with some locked out to up to 20.

Transport for London says it's to prevent dangerous overcrowding on the station platforms. The safety of our customers is our top priority. Major

upgrade work is well underway, which will significantly increase capacity for the whole area. With nearly $13 billion spent in the area every year,

local retailers have reason to be worried.

JACE TYRRELL, CEO NEW WEST END COMPANY: We need a plan for the next ten years to take the West End to the next level. And you know Time's Square,

very successful in New York, they've pedestrianized the area, they've made it about the shopper and the pedestrians.

FOSTER: Experts say having a major transport hub that regularly grinds to a halt is simply unsustainable.

TONY TRAVERS, PROFESSOR, LONDON SCHOOL OF ECONOMICS: London's population is expected to grow to nine then 10 million from its current figure eight and

a half million. And so these problems can only get worse.

FOSTER: Max Foster, CNN, London.

(AUTOMATED VOICE) Do not enter. Do not enter.


GORANI: Doesn't work for claustrophobics. I'm Hala Gorani, Quest Means Business is next.