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Trump Alternative Event; Candidates Prepare for Debate; Democratic Debates. Aired 2-2:30p ET
Aired January 28, 2016 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: That time with former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. The news continues next on CNN.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf Blitzer, thank you so much, my friend. Great to be with all you on this Thursday. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You are watching CNN.
We begin with Donald Trump. You know what, he has sold out that fundraising event borne out of his showdown with Fox News. Tonight, instead of taking center stage at that network's Republican debate, the final debate before the crucial Iowa caucuses, Trump promises he will be on his own stage, raising money for veterans. And two of his competitors in this Republican field actually plan to join him. We're going to get to that in moments. We'll actually be talking to one of them.
All of this is the latest in this Republican frontrunners feud with Fox. Trump did not want one of the network's anchors to moderate. Fox refused to budge and then put out a statement that Trump's camp called an attack, thus this debate boycott was born. And Trump is holding onto it despite the pleas from Fox's flagship anchor, Bill O'Reilly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL O'REILLY, HOST, "THE O'REILLY FACTOR": I think you should be the bigger man and say, you know what, I didn't like it and I'm - and you should make that case all day long. But I'm not going to take any action against it. You know, don't you think that's the right thing to do?
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It probably is. But, you know, it's called an eye for an eye I guess also you can look at it that way, but it probably is.
O'REILLY: No, no, no, you -- that's Old Testament.
TRUMP: I don't take it seriously. Bill -
O'REILLY: No, no, no, no.
TRUMP: You are taking it -
O'REILLY: If you're the Christian, the eye for the eye rule goes out.
TRUMP: (INAUDIBLE). O'REILLY: Here's - here's what it is, turning the other cheek. Right here.
TRUMP: Bill, Bill, let me tell you, you're taking this much more seriously than I am. I'm not taking it seriously.
O'REILLY: Who is?
TRUMP: I'm going to have a wonderful time tomorrow night at 9:00 at Drake University.
O'REILLY: But - but - they want to know you.
TRUMP: No, that's fine.
O'REILLY: But by walking away from this debate -
TRUMP: And a lot of people do know me.
O'REILLY: You're not - you're not giving them the opportunity to know them as well as they would like.
TRUMP: I'm not walking away. I was pushed away. I'm not walking away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: All right, so despite the fact that Trump was there on with Bill O'Reilly last night, while Trump remains soured on Fox in general, his Republican rival are sweetening their offers to entice him still to debate. Two super PACs backing Senator Ted Cruz are offering to give $1.5 million to veteran's organizations if Trump commits to a one-on-one debate that Cruz is proposing. Polls taken just in this last week show Cruz is neck and neck with Trump in Iowa.
So let's kick things off this hour with my colleague, Sunlen Serfaty. She is in Des Moines, just outside of Drake University, where that event will be held tonight.
And we really don't know much, Sunlen, about this Trump event. We know it involved veterans. We know it's at Drake University. What else do we know?
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and, Brooke, there is still a lot of mystery surrounding this event. And I think that speaks to how hastily this was all arranged by the Trump campaign. First, we do know that there will be two of Trump's opponents, there's rivals here at this event with him, Mike Huckabee and Rick Santorum, both confirming that they will be at this event tonight. They will first attend that undercard debate and then come just two miles away to this event here at Drake University, this event hosted by Donald Trump.
And Mike Huckabee spoke with Wolf Blitzer in the last hour and told him why he made this rather odd decision to cross over and come to an opponent's event. Here's what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's to honor the troops. You know, it's not an endorsement of Donald Trump's candidacy. I'm still running for president. We've got the caucuses Monday night. But I'm delighted to join with Donald Trump in an effort to salute veterans. And, you know what, I didn't have anything going on at 8:00 tonight. I offered, by the way, I would take his podium at the 8:00 debate. And, you know, that was rejected. So I said, OK, well, I'll find something else to do at 8:00.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SERFATY: Now, doors here will open in about four hours. The auditorium behind me is where the event will take place. This will start with a preprogram of sorts, we're told, and then the main event will start at 9:00 p.m. Eastern. That is no coincidence. That is the exact same time that the debate will be starting. The Trump campaign very aware and very wanting to capture that counterprogramming moment there. We know that the Trump campaign has said tickets were sold out. And this auditorium holds 775 people inside.
We also know that the Trump campaign saying that this is a fundraiser and it will benefit veterans organizations. But I have to say, Brooke, there is a lot of mystery around where that money goes to. The Trump campaign has not yet named what organizations. And there's already been much pushback from many veterans groups saying that they don't want to be associated with it.
BALDWIN: Right.
SERFATY: Some even, the IAVA (ph) coming on saying they would decline funds if they were donated because they don't want to, in their words, be involved in a political stunt.
Brooke.
BALDWIN: That's right. We're making sure we're talking to veterans each hour on this show to get their take with the mystery, the drama. Sunlen Serfaty, thank you so much.
You know, someone else who doesn't have anything to do the 8:00 tonight will be this man, Rick Santorum. So he will be joining me live next hour to chat about why he says yes to Trump in terms of attending his event tonight there at Drake University. So stay tuned for that.
[14:05:05] Let's talk, though, about how all of this is going to impact the race for the White House. Here with me now, Al Cardenas, senior adviser to Jeb Bush and former chairman of the American Conservative Union. Also, CNN's senior political reporter, Nia-Malika Henderson, Trump supporter, she's back with us today, Terra Grant, thank you. And Craig Robinson, editor of theiowarepublican.com and a former political director of the Iowa Republican Party.
So all of you, thank you so much for being with me as there is much to chat about.
AL CARDENAS, SENIOR ADVISER TO JEB BUSH: Sure. BALDWIN: But first, just visually, I'm curious from all four of you, I want to see a show of hands. How many of you think, you know, Jeb Bush is saying, I'm putting $20 on the fact that Trump ends up showing up 11th hour tonight. How many of you actually think he will show on that debate stage?
TERRA GRANT, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: Absolutely not.
BALDWIN: OK, crickets from all four of you. There you go.
CARDENAS: No.
BALDWIN: So, that's a no. I was curious.
Al, let me begin with you. let me begin with you. You know, what do you make of this - all of this back and forth between Trump and now Ted Cruz and offering money, come debate me. Carly Fiorina's jumped in this as well. And the veterans are in the middle of it.
CARDENAS: Yes, well, we'll put - put this in, you know, historical context. I remember in 2012 "Newsweek" was hosting a debate, proposed Donald Trump as the moderator. Most of the contestants said, no way, and Trump went crazy. He said, how - a lack of courage and what should that matter. If you're man enough, you should show up and do your best. And so look at this thing now, four years later. There's a lady he doesn't like as moderator and he pulls out. Totally contrary to what he said four years ago.
And then this deal with the charities. Look, I'm offended by it. I think if you're a multibillionaire, you should put money out of your own pocket if you want to support a charity as worthy as the wounded veterans. But to hold them in the middle of this political thing for pure show and put a little carrot in front of these organizations so that they participate, I frankly am offended by that.
And Carly Fiorina, to come out - who's never given a penny to a veteran organization like that and say, I'll put in $2 million, come on. If you want to write a check to them, write a check to them, but don't make it conditional or political show.
BALDWIN: I don't know if she's never put a penny toward any veterans organization, but, you know, to your point about putting this sort of carrot in front of them. Terra, I'm curious, I mean Trump is your guy. What's your response to that?
GRANT: I just think - I really do think that Trump's doing a worthy cause tonight. I don't think it's - like I said yesterday, I don't think it's about Megyn Kelly specifically. I think Fox News launched an all-out war with Donald Trump and I think the Megyn Kelly thing, they could have chosen any moderator and they chose Megyn Kelly. Again, another - if you're going to poke a bear, you've got to get ready for the bear's response.
And Donald Trump, basically he says Fox News, I've done six debates thus far, I've won them all, I don't need your debate. I can go and raise money for a worthy cause. That's our veterans. Why is that a carrot? OK, well, he just developed a worthy cause to go raise money for.
So I don't think it's a carrot. I don't think anyone should be offended. Love that word these days. I mean he's - and Carly Fiorina, good for her, $2 million for our veterans. Needless to say, our veterans have not had enough money thrown their way anyway. Let's raise as much money as possible. And I think you will see a lot of people are going to turn off the Fox News debate tonight and they're going to tune in to Donald Trump. I am.
BALDWIN: How is all of this, Craig, how is all of this being received where you are in Iowa, the state that really matters the most, as we're four days away from the caucuses?
CRAIG ROBINSON, EDITOR, THEIOWAREPUBLICAN.COM: Look, this is all that's being talked about. I talked to a candidate on the trail today. And I asked him, I said, so what - how are people responding? And he said, this is all people want to talk about. So here we are, you know, less than five days away from the caucus and even the other candidates are stuck talking about Donald Trump at their own campaign events. I mean it's quite astonishing.
BALDWIN: The remaining candidates on the stage, Nia, I mean I keep thinking about them. I think about, of course, center stage who - and then he's neck and neck with Trump. You have Senator Cruz, who I imagine, you know, will have the biggest bulls eye on his back come tonight. How will these candidates maneuver successfully?
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: You know, that's a big question, how does Fox even set this up? Do they, for instance, put sort of an empty podium in the middle of the stage? Do the other candidates feel like they should attack Donald Trump, even though he's absent? Some of them have, in some ways, been reluctant to do that. Do they have like sort of a different strategy tonight? But I do think you'll see something of a circular firing squad with the folks who are remaining. Particularly you've got that establishment group with Rubio, with Jeb Bush, with Kasich. And then with Cruz, trying to really be the big man on that stage, who, of course, is lagging in polls compared to Donald Trump, these national polls, and is neck and neck in Iowa. He's, I think, got to make a really big splash but I think he's going to get them incoming from everyone on that stage, Rubio and everyone else.
[14:10:20] BALDWIN: But with regard to this circular firing squad, and that's a - that's a quote from House Speaker Paul Ryan, I mean that in - if they're all sort of pointing fingers at one another and they're taking one another out, that then is leading to the rise, is it not, of the Trumps and the Cruzs of the world?
HENDERSON: I think that's right. And what has been remarkable here is you have had people have a really hands off approach to Donald Trump. They've really been going after Ted Cruz with this idea that if they take Ted Cruz out, somehow down the line that somehow Donald Trump will fall. He will implode. Something we haven't obviously seen so far. So it is this remarkable weird strategy I think that people have in terms of sort of hands often Donald Trump approach and hoping down the line that something else happens. BALDWIN: In terms of strategy, Al, here's where I'm curious, because
you see - you do see, you know, a group of Republicans who are anti- Trump, but you don't see a group of Republicans who are really coalescing behind an alternate candidate, like a Jeb Bush or a Marco Rubio. Why hasn't that happened yet, do you think?
CARDENAS: Well, nature will take care of it in the next 15 days. Look, I think Donald Trump, more than being offended by Megyn Kelly, figured he had enough of a lead in Iowa that he didn't need to risk a knockout punch, just like a boxing match, so he said I'm not doing it. And I think he thinks it's a smart thing because he's got nothing to lose. They can't hurt him badly if he's not there. And he figures he's going to coast to a win in Iowa. We'll see, but I think that's part of his thinking.
Look, in Iowa, you're going to - you're going to narrow the field of social conservatives. It will be tough if the caucus results reflect the polling numbers for a Mike Huckabee or a Rick Santorum to be able to justify staying in. And then in New Hampshire, a week later, you know, out of those four gentlemen you talked, maybe a couple - a couple of them survive into South Carolina. So we'll have two states. Each state will narrow the field in a different lane, so to speak. But I think after the first four states, you'll end up with three or four viable candidates for the remaining 46 states in the primaries.
BALDWIN: All right, so some political Darwinism to be played out in the next 15 days. Final question really, John McCain actually was on Seth Meyers and he said that 2016, this whole race, is a completely different planet compared to 2008. Here he was last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SETH MEYERS, HOST, "LATE NIGHT WITH SETH MEYERS": 2008, does this just feel like a whole different world in 2016 than -
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Different planet.
MEYERS: Yes.
MCCAIN: Everything's different.
MEYERS: How do you think you would be doing if you were running the sort of campaign you ran in 2008?
MCCAIN: Not so good.
MEYERS: Not so good.
MCCAIN: Yes. I just think that it's so hard for these men and one woman to break through because Trump takes all the oxygen out of the room.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Craig, what do you think? ROBINSON: Well, I was on the campaign trail on Tuesday and I hit four
different campaign events and ended with Donald Trump. And I compared it to the first three were like "Little House on the Prairie" and the final event was like a WWE wrestling match. I mean the comparison just isn't there. I mean it's crazy. And, heck, I've watched this for a long time. I don't know what to make of it. I don't know what's going to happen. And then, you know, all of a sudden he makes a decision not to debate. I mean we're in unchartered waters in this entire election process and even in - in Iowa and beyond.
BALDWIN: I know everyone goes back and says, listen, Reagan didn't show to that final debate, you know, before Iowa in 1980, but this just feels so utterly completely different.
Al Cardenas, Terra Grant, Nia-Malika Henderson and Craig Robinson, thank you all very much.
HENDERSON: Thanks, Brooke.
BALDWIN: Great, great conversation.
CARDENAS: Thank you.
BALDWIN: Just ahead here as we're - thank you - as we're talking about veterans here, veterans groups, a number of them are criticizing Donald Trump over this event that some of them are calling a stunt tonight. We'll talk live with one veteran who says Trump has gone too far.
Plus, we'll speak with a debate coach about how he would advise the remaining candidates to tackle the Trump issue and one another on that stage in a matter of hours.
And Marco Rubio visibly frustrated over Trump's antics. Hear what the candidate said about the circus surrounding the debate tonight.
You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:18:38] BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thanks for being with me.
You know the news, Donald Trump a no show at tonight's final Republican prime-time debate ahead of the Iowa caucuses. The question now is this, how will the remaining candidates on stage deal with his absence? Here is a look at tonight's main stage podium lineup. For the first time, Texas Senator Ted Cruz, who's number two in the polls, really so, so close with Donald Trump, he gets that center podium position now. Should the candidates ignore Trump, look for an opening to shine, or spend precious minutes attacking him?
Let me bring in Southern Illinois University's debate director Todd Graham.
Todd Graham, welcome back. Out of the gate here, since we know Cruz will be front and center, I imagine the bull's-eye on him will be quite large. What's his first move?
TODD GRAHAM, DEBATE DIRECTOR, SOUTHERN ILLINOIS UNIVERSITY: Cruz's first move -
BALDWIN: Yes.
GRAHAM: Bask in the glory. Ted Cruz is now on center stage. A place where he kind of thinks he was born. I'm just saying this guy likes attention and Donald Trump gave him the center podium. Appearance matters, Brooke. And for him to be in the center of a two-hour debate stage is a huge boost for Ted Cruz.
BALDWIN: Everyone, though, I talked to ahead of this, they're essentially saying this is going to be like political whack a mole with Ted Cruz's head. I mean they all are going to go after Cruz. How does he handle that?
[14:20:02] GRAHAM: I think Cruz will handle it better. He handles logical arguments better than he does illogical ones. So I thought in the last debate he didn't handle Donald Trump's argument against him very well but because those weren't necessarily good reasoning. I think he'll do a little bit better in tonight's debate. What it will give him is more time to answer Marco Rubio. In the last debate, Rubio hit him at the end of the debate with a bunch of different commends and Ted Cruz simply didn't have time to answer them. Tonight, he will.
BALDWIN: Someone who will be on that stage, Senator Rand Paul. He acknowledged that with Trump not being there, he says he plans to spend much of his time going after Ted Cruz. Here's a snippet of what he could say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RAND PAUL (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I think Donald Trump's main addition that he's brought to the debate this year has been silliness, bombast and empty rhetoric and, you know, calling people names. And so I don't think he's added much of substance the whole year. So I don't think he'll be missed. In fact, I really don't think Donald Trump's a conservative. I think he's a fake and a charlatan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: I have a feeling with the other candidates will not be, you know, crying over Trump's not being there. How should the other candidates maneuver and showcase him or herself the best?
GRAHAM: Well, a couple of things. First off, I think it's Marco Rubio's time to shine. He's third in the polls. If he wants to bring himself up, there's two easy people he should attack. One is obviously Ted Cruz. But let's not forget, the easiest person to attack is the one that Clint Eastwood attacked in his most famous speech. The one who wasn't there. So if you'll notice, in the debates, they've always done well when attacking who, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, because they're not there to defend themselves. I believe it's a great opportunity to attack Donald Trump because none
of them fared well when he was on the stage. He would always come right back after them. So tonight's the night for Marco Rubio and others, even Jeb Bush. And Jeb Bush's mother he could bring up as being more brave than Donald Trump. You know, all of these things you can bring up in a debate when Donald Trump's not there. And the one thing you have to be concerned about is, once you give these candidates courage to attack you, like Donald Trump tonight, et cetera, they will continue those attacks in future debates.
BALDWIN: Doesn't always help them when they do. We'll have to postgame this and circle back and see how it goes. Todd Graham, thank you very much.
GRAHAM: You're welcome.
BALDWIN: Coming up, moving away from politics, got to talk about this breaking news involving Disneyland in Paris. A man, armed with guns, ammunition, arrested while going through security. We have the latest there.
Also ahead, the vice president, Joe Biden, weighing in on this current crop of Republican candidates. Why he says they were sent from above.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:27:09] BALDWIN: Just getting a little breaking news here from the campaign trail, from the Democrat's side. Let me go straight to Des Moines, in Iowa, to Jeff Zeleny, who is there, who's watching.
Tell me what's happened.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, I mean, Republicans are having their own debate over the debates, but there's also a debate over debate on the Democratic side. And I can tell you, this just coming in a few moments ago. Secretary state - former Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton is agreeing to do a debate next week in New Hampshire and she is also agreeing to what Bernie Sanders had asked for, to do more debates down the road, in both April and May. So Senator Sanders mentioned to us just a short time ago today that he would agree to that debate next week in New Hampshire if his top rival agreed to debate him down the line. It appears that's exactly what happened here.
So for all the talk of the Democratic National Committee trying to sort of limit the number of debates, it looks like we're going to have at least perhaps up to three more Democratic debates as this process goes on. But the first one will be next week in New Hampshire if - if Bernie Sanders agrees to this as he told us he would earlier. So an interesting moment here. Of course the context here is that a tight race here in Iowa, but as well in New Hampshire. She is running behind Bernie Sanders. So agreeing to more debates. So this race could go on longer than anyone expected at this point, Brooke.
BALDWIN: Talk about some long game on both sides. Debate about the debates. ZELENY: That's right.
BALDWIN: Jeff Zeleny, thank you so much. I'll see you in Iowa tonight.
Breaking news here. We have learned this man carrying two automatic weapons has been arrested at a Disneyland Paris hotel and police say a manhunt is now underway for his female accomplice. Right now bomb squads are searching the man's car. A Disneyland in Paris spokesperson said that during a routine x-ray luggage screening, officers found the weapons in the man's suitcase. Police tell CNN during questioning of this mean, he first said he was carrying these two guns for his own protection. That's a direct quote. They also say the 28-year-old was carrying a Koran at the time of his arrest. More updates on that one as soon as we get it out of Paris.
Now to this emotional homecoming here. More than 500 days in the making. "Washington Post" journalist Jason Rezaian went back to his newsroom today after being arrested and imprisoned for alleged espionage in Iran. His family, his employer, "The Post," fought tirelessly for his release. He and three other American prisoners were flown home this month in this prisoner exchange deal with Iran, accompanied by Secretary of State John Kerry. Rezaian was visibly shaken, sharing some of the details of his hundreds of days in captivity. But most of all, grateful to be home.
[14:29:58] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JASON REZAIAN: I'm honored to be a part of this ceremony marking the next chapter in the history of "The Washington Post." For much of the 18 months I was in prison, my Iranian interrogators told me that "The Washington Post" did not exist, that no one knew of my plight, and that the United States
