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Absent Donald Trump Still a Presence at GOP Debate; Donald Trump Leaves Iowa for New Hampshire; Trump-less Debate Second to Lowest; New Trump Super PAC Debuts Radio Ad; Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired January 29, 2016 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:02] CUOMO: There's a family behind him, that little boy, his sister, his wife, all his friends. They've lost somebody and they serve as well, that family, because every time a loved one goes out to do the job, they're thinking, will they come home?

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. So we're honored to bring you stories like this every Friday. So tune in for that. And right now it's time for "NEWSROOM" with Carol Costello.

Good morning, Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Have a great morning. NEWSROOM starts now.

And good morning, I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. The Trump-less GOP debate we're just finding out, it's the second lowest rated debate of the season, and without the frontrunner, it's a chance for the contenders to step out of the Donald's shadow and shine, or not.

This is the night where the headlines that the Ted Cruz campaign is waking up to, not what the second place candidate wants to see just a few days before the all-important Iowa caucuses. And while Trump wasn't on that stage, sometimes it sounded like he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I kind of miss Donald Trump. He was a little teddy bear to me. We always had such a loving relationship in these debates and in between, and the tweets, I kind of miss him. I wish he was here.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So let's begin by being clear what this campaign is about. It's not about Donald Trump. He's an entertaining guy. He's the greatest show on earth. This campaign is about the greatest country in the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: CNN's John Berman is in Des Moines this morning with more. Good morning, John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Carol. Right? Be careful what you wish for. Ted Cruz I'm sure has imagined what a race would be like without Donald Trump and now he knows. Indeed, for all of these candidates, having a chance to be on stage, sure, it gave them more time in the spotlight, more time to talk, but it also put focus more squarely on them, and sometimes in an uncomfortable way.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN (voice-over): For a debate stage absent of Donald Trump, it was hardly a debate, absent of Donald Trump. From the very first question --

MEGYN KELLY, FOX NEWS MODERATOR: Before we get to the issues, let's address the elephant not in the room tonight.

BERMAN: To the very first joke.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let me say, I'm a maniac, and everyone on this stage is stupid, fat and ugly. And, Ben, you're a terrible surgeon. Now that we've gotten the Donald Trump portion out of the way --

BERMAN: To a completely changed dynamic, where with no Trump lightning rod, other candidates had to dodge bolts.

CRUZ: So I would note that the last four questions have been, Rand, please attack Ted, Marco please attack Ted, Chris, please attack Ted, Jeb, please attack Ted.

(AUDIENCE BOOS)

CRUZ: Let me just say this --

CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS MODERATOR: It is a debate, sir.

CRUZ: Well, no. No. A debate actually is a policy issue but I will say this, gosh, if you guys ask one more mean question, I may have to leave the stage.

BERMAN: And some candidates got flat-out more attention. This was Rand Paul questioning Hillary Clinton's values relative to her husband's infidelities.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I do think that her position as promoting women's rights and fairness to women in the workplace, that if what Bill Clinton did, any CEO in our country did, with an intern, with a 22-year-old, 21-year-old intern in their office, they would be fired. They would never be hired again.

BERMAN: The most extraordinary moment of the night, even came on an issue Donald Trump put front and center -- immigration. It led to an all-out melee. Jeb Bush versus Marco Rubio.

BUSH: I'm kind of confused because he was the sponsor of the Gang of Eight bill that did require a bunch of thresholds but ultimately allowed for citizenship over an extended period of time. I mean, that's a fact. And he asked me to support that. And I supported him because I think people, when you're elected, you need to do things. RUBIO: It's interesting that Jeb mentions the book. That is the book

where you changed your position on immigration because you used to support a path to citizenship.

BUSH: So did you.

RUBIO: Well, but you changed the -- in the book --

BUSH: And so did you, Marco.

RUBIO: You wrote a book where you changed your position from -- no, you wrote a book where you changed your position from a path to citizenship to a path to legalization.

BERMAN: Rand Paul versus Ted Cruz.

PAUL: I was there and I saw the debate. I saw Ted Cruz say, we'll take citizenship off the table and then the bill will pass, and I'm for the bill. But it's a falseness. And that's an authenticity problem that everybody he knows is not as perfect as him because we're all for amnesty.

BERMAN: Ted Cruz versus Marco Rubio.

CRUZ: You know, John Adams famously said facts are stubborn things. The facts are very, very simple, when that battle was waged, my friend Senator Rubio chose to stand with Barack Obama and Harry Reid and Chuck Schumer and support amnesty, and I stood alongside Jeff Sessions and Steve King and we led the fight against amnesty.

RUBIO: This is the lie that Ted's campaign is built on and Rand touched upon. That he's the most conservative guy and everyone else is a -- you know, everyone else is a rhino. The truth is, Ted, throughout this campaign you've been willing to say or do anything in order to get votes.

[09:05:04] BERMAN: Chris Christie versus everyone.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I feel like -- I feel like I need -- I feel like I need a Washington English dictionary converter. Right?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Chris Christie, Rand Paul, Jeb Bush, all throwing punches on immigration, all taking hits. One candidate who was not mixed up in that food fight, Donald Trump. He could sit and watch the whole thing, and now you have to wonder, Carol, does he show up to the debate next week in New Hampshire?

COSTELLO: It will be interesting. A question for you, because I thought the moderators used a tool that was very effective. They used clips of the candidates' past statements that seemed contradictory and then they forced the candidates to answer to them. Did the candidates expect that? BERMAN: Look, I didn't expect it because I know in past debate cycles

and past situations that's often something campaigns negotiate out of a debate. You say you know what, if we're going to do this you can't use video clips for exactly that reason. But obviously FOX did it, it must not have been something that was off the table.

When I saw that to me what it said is this was designed for Donald Trump. That was the reason FOX had that in there because you can imagine the video montage that FOX had prepared for Donald Trump on so many of the issues that he's talked about in the past, where he's got a different position in the present.

COSTELLO: I can, actually. John Berman, reporting live from Des Moines. Thank you.

Donald Trump's rival event comfortably close to FOX's main event. Here's the Republican debate. Now watch as Google Map takes us to the Trump rally just a couple of miles away at Drake University. Trump telling our Brianna Keilar that FOX eventually apologized for its treatment of him. Now we can't confirm that but here's what Trump had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I just didn't think this was a fair process, and by the time they apologized, I said, look, the problem is, we now have a big event scheduled --

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: On the phone they apologized? That was --

TRUMP: Yes --

KEILAR: Is that what the phone call was about?

TRUMP: FOX could not have been nicer.

KEILAR: You got an apology?

TRUMP: Yes. And they could not have been nicer.

KEILAR: Who apologized?

TRUMP: I don't want to say.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: OK. But Trump, ever the showman, clearly reveled in the spotlight all to himself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Look at all the cameras. Like the Academy Awards. This is like the Academy Awards. This is the Academy Awards. We're actually told that we have more cameras than they do by quite a bit so that's settled. We wouldn't have even been here if it weren't for our vets and are vets are being mistreated. I didn't know we're going to raise $5 million. We actually raised close to $6 million, to be totally honest, but -- and I have to say, a lot more to come.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Trump blazing his own trail this morning leaving behind a crowd and field of rivals in Iowa and instead moving on to New Hampshire. The head of the nation's first primaries.

CNN's senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta is in Nassau with more on that. Good morning, Jim.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. That's right. As it was put at last night's debate, he was the elephant not in the room and it stands to reason that a lot of Republican viewers were using the flashback or previous channel button on their remote controls to switch bath and forth between the debate and the Donald Trump event.

Now while Donald Trump was raising money for veterans last night at this event, he said that $6 million were raised overall. $500,000 on that new Web site that was set up to raise money for veteran's causes. This was really about putting FOX News in its place. Teaching FOX News a lesson, for Donald Trump, and he basically said as much at the start of last night's event. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I didn't want to be here, I have to be honest. I wanted to be about five minutes away. And I've enjoyed that. I've enjoyed that. All the online polls said I've done very well with that, with the debates and I've had a kick with it, but you have to stick up for your rights. When you're treated badly, you have to stick up for your rights.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: That was probably the biggest applause line of the night, and just to add to what was a good night for Donald Trump, he had the two previous Iowa caucus winners with him, Rick Santorum and Mike Huckabee. Rick Santorum at one point saying he didn't want to stand in front of the Donald Trump for President signs because he was still running for president.

Now we should point out that the Trump campaign is already looking forward to their organization for the Iowa caucuses. I've talked to Corey Lewandowski, the campaign manager, about this, he said that they do have a plan. Contrary, he said, to press reports that the Trump campaign has not really been planning for these Iowa caucuses.

He even said that they're not importing people from Texas. That all of their ground force was from Iowa. That was a tweet obviously for Senator Ted Cruz, and, Carol, as to that point that you and John Berman was just talking about, will Donald Trump participate in future debates? Corey Lewandowski made no bones about it. Donald Trump will be participating in future debates. [09:10:03] The campaign is saying, this was just about FOX News and

just about that statement that was put out by the TV network that they thought was very insulting, in the words of Corey Lewandowski, egregious. And Donald Trump will be out here in Nassau, New Hampshire, shortly. It does say something, though, about the state of this race that he's here in New Hampshire with just 72 hours to go before the Iowa caucuses -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Jim Acosta, many thanks to you.

Here to discuss all of this, Amanda Carpenter, former communications director for Senator Ted Cruz, and Mike Shields, former chief of staff for the Republican National Committee.

Welcome to both of you.

AMANDA CARPENTER, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, SEN. TED CRUZ: Good morning.

COSTELLO: Good morning.

MIKE SHIELDS, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF FOR RNC: Good morning.

COSTELLO: So, Amanda, let's talk about the front page of the "Des Moines Registry." We saw John Berman holding it up, with the headline was "Rough Night for Cruz." It's not something you want to see days before the caucuses. The paper said not much worked for Cruz. Not attacks on the media, not his prepared jokes about Trump. Nothing. So did Trump's absence expose the real Cruz?

CARPENTER: Well, here's the thing. I don't think the debate last night changed much of anything at all. Certainly more people were attacking Ted Cruz in Trump's absence. But my kind of bigger beef with the debate, I've got to give your CNN video editors credit because they made it seem a lot more exciting than it was.

What was revealed was, in fact, how dependent FOX has become on Donald Trump. And I, as a Republican voter, as someone who cares about this process, I really resent the fact that our political debates have become, you know, subject for a battle of egos between two New York billionaires.

There is a lot was missing last night because those moderators didn't know what to do without Trump. They asked the same tired questions, we got the same tired answers, and the biggest, you know, event of the night was, again, Cruz and Rubio fighting over the Gang of Eight bill, which we've all heard that before. We've all heard Chris Christie talk about how he couldn't follow the legislative debate before.

And so nothing changes the debate which is a big black mark on FOX because all the other previous debates have.

COSTELLO: And, Mike, I will say that I didn't hear much actual policy discussed. At least when it came to the economy and how exactly the candidates would take care of ISIS, except that they would put them, well, Marco Rubio would put them in Guantanamo Bay after he rounded them all up bud he never said how.

SHIELDS: Yes, I mean, look, we're, what, four days away. I agree. This wasn't much of a change, this was sort of a rerun of things that we've seen before. The candidates are now sort of where they're going to be. I don't think that anyone is trying to shake things up too much other than, of course, Donald Trump.

And I think as a campaign operative we've all seen. If you're the frontrunner sometimes it's better to not be at a debate. I don't know if that's why he did that. I don't think any of us knows. But the debate last night was people sort of staying where they are, sort of saying what they've said before, and now really what the operatives are looking at is turnout. How many people are going to show up in the Iowa caucuses?

There's a lot of people that are still undecided here. I think it's a tradition in Iowa. They're used to getting to meet the candidates, they're all here and they're sort of sit back a little bit and say, well, I'm not sure.

I've met a number of voters here that are still sort of on the fence. And so I think it's really a matter now of appealing to those folks, those undecided voters, and then how many people are going to show up? There's 121,000 Republicans showed up in the last Iowa caucus in 2012, which is a record. And everyone assumed it's going to be even higher this time, turnout, because you have so many candidates, so much money.

How much higher does it go? If it gets up to 150,000, 160,000, it looks like from the polling that's going to benefit Trump because he needs to get those sort of lower propensity voters to show up and maybe may benefit Marco Rubio. And so I think that without people not knowing what that turnout is going to be I agree with you, guys, it was sort of a stay pat debate last night.

COSTELLO: The weirdest thing that happened last night, at least in my mind, was when Rick Santorum and Mike Huckabee showed up alongside Donald Trump.

Amanda, what was that about?

CARPENTER: We're in bizarre land. I mean, at the same time Mike Huckabee was there on stage with Trump, besides, you know, a Trump for {resident sign, his super PAC is airing ads against Trump. It makes no sense of something the fact that Huckabee is so intent on sabotaging Ted Cruz that helped saddle up to Donald Trump who is, you know, very -- I think untrustworthy on evangelical issues.

But, you know, this is the best night of Mike Huckabee and Rick Santorum's campaign, talking to Trump voters. So I understand what they're doing. It's very deliberate. It's pretty crass, and it just kind of speaks to how crazy this process has become.

COSTELLO: So -- so, Mike, you worked for the RNC. So when Reince Priebus is watching last night, what really is going through his mind? SHIELDS: Well, look, I think what you're watching is the vision of

Reince Priebus with these debates. I mean, think about last cycle in 2012, you have 23 of these debates, and we're sitting here saying hey, they're kind of saying the same thing over and over again and we're on number seven. And so -- and look, they've stayed path. They've controlled the debates. They set the rules. The candidates have adhered to them. They've worked with the networks. I think it's been a smashing success for Chairman Priebus and for the RNC the way they handled the debates especially compared to the debacle that's going on in the Democrat Party where you have --

[09:15:02] COSTELLO: Even last night?

CARPENTER: Yes.

COSTELLO: Even last night?

SHIELDS: Even last night. Last night was --

COSTELLO: Really? You don't think that was a debacle for the debate process?

CARPENTER: Well, here's the thing about last night.

SHIELDS: Not at all. I think it was actually -- I think it was a ratification of the debate process because look, one of the candidates didn't show up. That's fine. They had the debate anyway. That's up to them. Rand Paul skipped one of the debates earlier. That's fine. The debate went on anyway. And I think that it's well organized. We've cut down the number of debates. We've controlled who the moderators are in the debates.

I think the RNC has done a fantastic job and it's really benefited voters in the process to not have a 23-debate traveling circus where they're just -- I mean, there is one time last cycle, you had a debate on a Saturday night and then it went on to Sunday morning. It just got to be absurd. And I think -- so you're watching right now the vision of Chairman Priebus and I think it's been a smashing success for his chairmanship.

COSTELLO: All right. I have to --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Amanda, quickly.

CARPENTER: Just quickly. There is new ground to applaud, and I would look at Brianna Keilar's interview with Donald Trump last night. She's tried to make more ground on the issues of abortion and other things that matter to Iowa voters than I think FOX has ever tried. And that's why FOX shouldn't have waited until the last minute last night to ask those questions because Donald Trump just chose not to show up and that's why he won. He won by escaping the vetting he deserves.

COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there. Amanda Carpenter, Mike Shields, thanks to both of you.

One night, two rival events and the number everyone wants to know, how many watched Donald -- how many watch. Donald Trump predicted a FOX debate without him on stage would be a, quote, "total disaster.".

Brian Stelter has the early numbers. What are they, Brian?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: While this is the second lowest GOP debate yet. So in some ways Trump will be able to claim victory here, Carol. I'm cruising the numbers here as we speak. I'll try to break them down for you.

The debate last night had an 8.4 household rating. What that means is 8.4 percent of Americans with TV sets were tuned in. And that's probably going to come out to 11 million or 12 million, or maybe 13 million viewers. That is really high. If we were the stars of a drama on primetime on NBC or CBS, we would love that big audience. But by GOP debate ratings that's actually pretty low. Every other debate so far, except one, has been higher rated than last night's debate.

So Trump is going to I'm sure come out in the next few minutes and say, he was able to hurt FOX by taking away viewership.

Now CNN, here on CNN we aired parts of Trump's speech last night. We had about twice as many viewers last night than we did on Wednesday night. So clearly some people wanted to see Trump.

But keep this in mind, CNN and MSNBC both showed parts of Trump's speech and yet we only a quarter of the audience as FOX combined. So FOX still came out ahead here in terms of the raw totals. And that matters because Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio and Jeb Bush and all the candidates, they were able to get in front of a big audience, even though Trump wasn't there on stage.

I think this goes to show that some of the casual fans of Trump, people that might not love politics but are interested in watching him, they decided not to watch him. They decided not to watch FOX. They decided to skip the debate. But there was still a core audience, people that might be voting, might be going to the caucuses next week that did tune in for this debate.

COSTELLO: But --

STELTER: I got to tell you, Carol, these numbers are going to be spun all day long.

COSTELLO: I just want to stop you -- I just want to stop you for just a second because I think perspective is important, right?

STELTER: Yes.

COSTELLO: Because we always compare these numbers to the very first debate which was on FOX, that got huge numbers, but that was the first debate.

STELTER: Yes. The ceiling was too high.

COSTELLO: Right?

STELTER: That's right. That's right.

COSTELLO: The ceiling is too high. So the numbers for the debates have been going down because frankly there have been a lot of them. So why would anyone expect these numbers to be ultra high anyway, even with Trump?

STELTER: Well, I'll give you the argument in favor of why they should have been higher. These is probably -- these numbers are probably a disappointment to FOX, although they're not going to admit that I don't think on the record. They're probably a disappointment because this was hyped like nothing has been hyped before. We essentially -- we're doing a 48-hour pregame show here on CNN and that all the other networks because there was so much curiosity on what Trump would do.

COSTELLO: Yes. I get it. But aren't people kind of tired of the hype by this time, too?

STELTER: Well, I think that is true. Trump is no longer a novelty, he's like wallpaper. You see him everywhere. There's saturation coverage. Some people are sick and tired of it and don't want to watch him or the debate at this point. They just want to see what happens at the Iowa caucuses. So I think that is true and that is a big element here.

You know, 24 million is the ceiling, more recently, the FOX Business News debate two weeks ago had about 11 million viewers. So this debate is going to do a little bit better than that. That means these candidates were exposed to a big audience. But I'm telling you, Trump is going to claim credit for taking away some audience from FOX last night.

COSTELLO: I think you're right about that, Brian Stelter.

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: Thanks so much.

STELTER: Thanks.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, it's the battle of the Super PACs, as promoting and opposing Donald Trump flood the Iowa airwaves.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:23:36] COSTELLO: Just three days until the Iowa caucuses and a pro-Trump ad is hitting the airwaves, backed by a new Trump supporting super PAC called Trump PAC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm excited to tell you about something special that's happening across the nation. Conservatives are rallying behind Donald Trump for president. They know he's not beholden to the lobbyists, donors and political insiders.

Donald Trump has the experience of creating jobs and making deals. As president he will make the deals that will bring jobs and prosperity back to the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: I'm joined by the voice behind that ad, Amy Kremer, she's the founder of the Trump super PAC, Trump PAC, as well as the founding member of the Tea Party Express.

Welcome.

AMY KREMER, CHAIRMAN, TRUMPPAC2016.COM: Hi, Carol. Thanks for having me.

COSTELLO: Thanks for coming back and talking with me, Amy. A question. Why are you backing Donald Trump and not Ted Cruz?

KREMER: Well, it's not that I'm against Ted Cruz. I just think that Donald Trump is the one to lead us out of this mess. I think he's the leader that we need at this point in time in our country. He's proven a successful businessman, he negotiates for great deals, and you can see that by his success, and he's a leader. And that's what we need. So I'm supporting Donald Trump for president.

COSTELLO: So what does Ted Cruz lack in your mind?

KREMER: It's not that -- it's not -- I mean, I'm not focused on what Ted Cruz lacks. I just think that Donald Trump is the one that we need right now in the White House to turn our economy around. Look, I've said for a long time that when I've been asked, who do you like, who do you support?

[09:25:05] I haven't been so concerned about who I supported and liked. It's that I didn't want to lose those freshmen senators in the United States Senate. We need Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio and Rand Paul in there to support Mike Lee. We've gained so much ground and we don't want to lose that ground. And so with Donald Trump as president and those guys in the Senate, that's a good deal.

COSTELLO: Interesting. OK, so I want to run this by you, Amy. Because in a press release early in his campaign Donald Trump said, quote, "I have disavowed all super PACs, requested the return of all donations made to said super PACs and I'm calling on all presidential candidates to do the same."

Now Trump has called super PAC money, dark money, dirty money. So why are you starting up a Trump super PAC?

KREMER: Well, we just started this super PAC. It went up on the air this week. And the fact is if you look at all these candidates, they all have super PACs that are spending millions of dollars and we want to level the playing field. This is grassroots, donors coming together. Donald Trump hasn't told us to shut it down and eventually going into the general election, we don't want to give Hillary Clinton that advantage. We want it to be a level playing field and we are going to get behind him and support him.

(CROSSTALK)

KREMER: We're independent of -- we're completely free and independent of the campaign anyway. So we're not operating with the campaign. We're doing this on our own.

COSTELLO: How would you respond to charges that Donald Trump says things that are racist, and he frightens many minority groups? How would you defend Donald Trump?

KREMER: Carol, listen, you know, I don't know everything Donald Trump has said. What I do know is that he has the business sense that we need in Washington right now, and that people are lining up across the country. There is a movement going on across this country to support him.

I don't agree with everything anybody says, any of those candidates say and I'm sure that most would say the same thing but I do think he's a leader that we need right now and millions of people are getting behind him and supporting him. Look at Iowa last night. Everybody said he should have been at the debate. And that this is what Iowan voters wanted, for him to be at the debate, and how many thousands of people were lined up at his event in -- at Drake University, I believe?

So, you know, people like what he's saying. And they may not agree with everything he's saying. But this is the thing, Donald Trump is a -- is a breath of fresh air because there's no manipulating, there's no -- he's not -- he's saying exactly what he thinks and he's being honest. And people like that even if they don't agree with what he's saying.

COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there. Amy Kremer, thanks for joining me this morning.

KREMER: Thanks for having me, Carol.

COSTELLO: You're welcome.

Coming up next, a confrontation between police and anti-government protesters caught on camera from above. And then a deadly shooting. What really happened on the side of the road?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)