Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Clinton E-Mail Controversy; Interview With Clay Aiken; Debate Fallout. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired January 29, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[15:00:20]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go, top of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

So great to be here in Des Moines, Iowa, beautiful blue skies. It's a cold, cold Friday, but let me tell you, the stakes are high. It is heating up ahead of the Monday caucuses, the first-in-the-nation caucuses, election season absolutely under way.

Iowa's first-in-the-nation caucuses happen in about 72 hours from now. And both Republicans and Democrats scouring the state, hoping to earn caucus-goers' support in these final days, that is, except for Donald Trump, by the way, one of the main contenders. He's the only one actually not here in the state of Iowa as I speak.

He is in New Hampshire at the moment boasting about how he has moved to skip the Republican debate and how that was "the right thing" and that his competing event raised $6 million for veterans.

Let's go to our senior White House correspondent, Jim Acosta, who is in Nashua, New Hampshire, following Trump today.

And he really went after his prime rival in Iowa. What did he say?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Brooke.

We are in New Hampshire. That does say a lot about the confidence level inside the Trump campaign. When you see that map we have been putting up on screen all day long that shows all the other candidates canvassing the state of Iowa and here's Donald Trump in New Hampshire, it shows they're pretty confident about their changes on caucus night.

Now, Donald Trump was essentially taking a victory here. He was basically saying he won that GOP debate last night by not showing up, allowing the moderators at FOX News and the other candidates to basically hammer each other all night, essentially leaving Donald Trump unscathed.

And he went right after Ted Cruz during this event here in New Hampshire, saying that Ted Cruz was pummeled during the FOX News debate, you know, made light of the fact that there were some pretty rough and tough estimates in terms of how Ted Cruz did during the debate. There was that front page of "The Des Moines Register" that said rough night for Ted Cruz. And Donald Trump went right after that during the remarks here.

Let's play a little bit of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Number one, we have February 1. I think we're going to do really well in Iowa. I think we're going to even surprise. We're leading in the Iowa polls now and leading pretty good. And Cruz is in second place. He got really pummeled last night. Actually, I'm glad I wasn't there, because I guess all of that -- he got pummeled. Wow. And they didn't even mention that he was born in Canada.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And so there you go, one more dig at Ted Cruz's place of birth being in Canada.

Brooke, the other thing we should point out, the Trump campaign released its schedule for the next few days. There are only 72 hours essentially before the Iowa caucuses. We're going to see a side of Donald Trump that we have not seen a whole lot official, which is basically he's going to be doing multiple rallies per day. He sometimes does two a day. But we're going to see three or so a day between now and when the caucus-goers start going to these caucus sites.

And Donald Trump likes to talk about high energy and low-energy candidates. We were going to see just how Donald Trump stacks up when it comes to energy level out on the campaign trail. I think the only way that this backfires on Donald Trump in terms of not going to the FOX News debate last night is that because Ted Cruz was seemingly hurt somewhat by his performance last night, does that give Marco Rubio an opening?

And I think the last thing Donald Trump wants at this point is to have a fight between Donald Trump and Marco Rubio heading into these early contests. That might give the establishment an opportunity to coalesce around Marco Rubio, which might not be the scenario that Donald Trump had in mind. We will wait and see -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: You mean this guy on the cover "The Des Moines Register" today? Everybody's talking about Cruz, but it's the other guy in the picture, Marco Rubio, we will be talking about as well. Jim Acosta, excellent point. Thank you very much.

Donald Trump may have dodged some questions from the debate moderators, yes, but he could not avoid CNN's senior political correspondent, Brianna Keilar. She tried again and again to pin Donald Trump down on the topic of late-term abortion. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Not just Ted Cruz, but also those who support him, have been hammering you when it compares to your previous views on late-term abortion. TRUMP: Well, I'm hammering him on his views on where he was born. And he's weak -- by the way, he's very weak on illegal immigration.

KEILAR: But you said to my colleague just recently, Dana Bash, you said "I don't want to talk about that" when you were asked about your previous support for late-term abortion.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: You know why? Because everybody knows. First of all, it is false. I am pro-life. Everybody knows I'm pro-life. He knows I'm pro-life.

You know, Ted Cruz also took a commercial. Wait a minute. Ted Cruz took a commercial that I ripped down an old lady's house. He said ripped down. They have the bulldozers. They say he destroyed, and because of eminent domain, which, by the way, is very important, because you wouldn't have roads, you wouldn't have schools.

(CROSSTALK)

[15:05:09]

KEILAR: But can you explain this? You said previously...

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: But wait a minute, wait a minute. The house was never ripped down. I never ripped down the house. She didn't want to do it. Ultimately, I said let's not do it.

KEILAR: Let me ask you this question, though.

TRUMP: No. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Why are you mentioning...

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: This my question, though.

TRUMP: Brianna, wait. Brianna, he did a big commercial. He said I ripped down a person's house.

KEILAR: But what does that have to do with you not wanting to talk about this issue of late-term abortion?

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Excuse me. It has a lot to do with it, because he's very dishonest in what he's doing. He said I ripped down a house of an elderly lady. And I didn't rip it down. And he never apologized.

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: And you have said that, certainly.

(CROSSTALK) TRUMP: No, but he never apologized.

KEILAR: Was this you bailing on this debate, so that you didn't have to talk about things like this issue that you clearly don't want to address?

TRUMP: Not at all. Not at all. I'm doing an interview with you. I'm doing interviews with Bill O'Reilly.

KEILAR: But you won't answer the question.

TRUMP: I'm answering every question. You are here a long time, a lot longer than you are supposed to be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Oh, goodness.

Let's get some perspective from Jamie Weinstein, senior editor at Daily Caller, Susan Page, Washington bureau chief, "USA Today," and Ron Brownstein here as well, CNN senior political analyst, editorial director of "The National Journal."

Welcome to all of you.

And, listen, as we were all watching the exchange with Brianna, listen, she's a friend, I say good for her for really pushing. Looking at you, you know, he kept saying to her over and over, listen, I have done the most interviews of any of the candidates. That absolutely may very well be true.

But when it comes to, you know, dodging certain questions, that exchange went on if you clock it about two-and-a-half minutes. I heard eminent domain, I heard discussion of tearing down a home. I don't know if you heard an answer there. Is that his strategy?

SUSAN PAGE, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, "USA TODAY": Yes, he's available and not available, right? He's available in that he does speak at rallies. He does interviews. Good for him. He did a news conference I went to the other day.

That doesn't necessarily mean he answers the question. If you looked at the debate last night, you saw those brutal video montages for both Ted Cruz and for Marco Rubio that really called them to account on changing positions on immigration.

I'm sure that I don't think that's the reason that he didn't do the debate. but I think when they saw that, they were probably glad they weren't there to see the same thing.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: We were both at that same press conference in Marshalltown. And there were several questions specifically about social issues where Trump said I'm not going to answer that at this time. He would not kind of come out and take a position. Look, front-runners often find reasons not to debate. In Trump's

case, there's a lot else going on. But at the end, you have a guy who believes he's ahead in Iowa, believes that he certainly is ahead in New Hampshire, is ahead in South Carolina, and didn't see a lot of incentive to give his opponents a chance to rock the boat.

KEILAR: But the fact is, Jamie, the fact that he wasn't at the debate doesn't give us issues and material and substance to fact-check a day later. He doesn't have to be fact-checked today.

JAMIE WEINSTEIN, THE DAILY CALLER: To be honest, fact-checks haven't hurt him yet. He's not been yet hurt by someone pointing out that he said something that wasn't true.

What I think what -- what Ron was saying is right on, though, that he was not at the debate, he hasn't had to face that video montage yet that you used to see on "Meet the Press." That was killer showing him clearly flip-flopping and saying things that were completely different one day and the next day not.

We haven't seen him have to try to get out of that. That might have been something different and something much harder for him to do. He's a winner by not being there.

(CROSSTALK)

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

SANDRA HUTCHENS, ORANGE COUNTY, CALIFORNIA, SHERIFF: And stated he wanted to turn himself in. I remind you that Bac Duong, his charges were ex-felon with a firearm, possession of firearm, possession of stolen property, vehicle theft, attempt murder, assault with a deadly weapon, and shooting at an inhabited dwelling.

He has been in custody since December 2015. He was ineligible for bail due to an immigration hold and it is a Santa Ana Police Department Case.

Our number one priority throughout this event has been the safety of our community. We have dedicated all available resources to this search and investigation to bring all three inmates back into custody.

We will continue with those same efforts using available resources to capture the additional two escapees who are outstanding.

BALDWIN: OK, so quickly what you just missed as we have been talking the better part of the week other than politics these three inmates, one of whom was convicted of murder, by the way.

They were in this maximum security jail. The three of them escaped. They tied their bed sheets and towels together and essentially rappelled from the fourth floor of this maximum security jail. The news is the eldest of the three inmates surrendered.

That's the good news for law enforcement. But the other two, obviously, they're searching for. That's the update from Santa Ana, California.

Back to our conversation here in Des Moines, Iowa. Where we were?

(CROSSTALK)

[15:10:05]

BROWNSTEIN: Ted Cruz is beginning to make the argument that you would have seen in the montage and he's putting it on television, saying particularly to social conservatives, that you can't trust Donald Trump.

One of the things that is most striking about this race is how well Donald Trump is doing unexpectedly with evangelical Christians, particularly blue-collar evangelical Christians. His appeal to blue- collar Republicans is crossing that religious boundary.

And it's a big reason why, probably the single biggest reason why he is ahead here in Iowa.

BALDWIN: But Marco Rubio last night did quite well. And also he could tell the quote -- guys, let me know if we have the sound and we can tee it up. But when he was asked about being on the -- we do have it, being asked about being on the cover of "TIME" magazine being the savior, this was his response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The truth is, Ted, throughout this campaign, you've been willing to say or do anything in order to get votes. Ted, you worked for George W. Bush's campaign...

(BOOING)

RUBIO: You -- you -- you helped design George W. Bush's -- you helped design George W. Bush's immigration policy. And then, when you got to the Senate, you did an interview with CBS News -- that wasn't even part of the video -- where you said, on the issue of people that are here illegally, we can reach a compromise.

And then in the committee, you said, I want to bring people out of the shadows.

(BELL RINGS)

RUBIO: Now you want to trump Trump.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The facts are simple. When he ran for election in the state of Florida, he told the people of Florida, if you elect me, I will lead the fight against amnesty.

When I ran in Texas, I told the people of Texas, if you elect me, I will lead the fight against amnesty. We both made the identical promises. But when we came to Washington, we made a different choice. BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS: "TIME magazine" once called you "the Republican

savior." Rush Limbaugh and others said you likely will be president some day.

But if you look at the recent average of polls in your home state of Florida, you're in third trailing Donald Trump by 24 points. If the people who know you best have you there, why should the rest of the country elect you?

RUBIO: Well, let me be clear about one thing, there's only one savior and it's not me. It's Jesus Christ who came down to earth and died for our sins.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That's what I wanted to play. I think what hasn't gotten as much maybe media pickup, but when you cover Marco Rubio on the trail, he talks a lot about his faith and especially here in Iowa, where Ted Cruz has really resonated among the all-important evangelical voting bloc.

Seemed to me listening to Marco Rubio last night he was trying to steal those voters away.

PAGE: And not just in that exchange, but three or four times he mentioned his faith. He referred to it. We should remember the last time around in the Republican caucuses, 57 percent of Republicans who attended caucuses identified themselves as an evangelical Christian.

BALDWIN: Wow.

PAGE: There's no more powerful group here. That's what got Santorum the victory.

BALDWIN: Huckabee.

PAGE: That's what got Huckabee the victory. That's what Cruz hopes they will give him a victory Monday night. But there's a lot of competition for that vote. I agree with Ron. One of the most striking things is the success that Donald Trump has had with a group that surely would find his lifestyle...

BALDWIN: 2 Corinthians, he was pummeled by that as well.

WEINSTEIN: It reminded of when George W. Bush in 2000 was asked who was his favorite philosopher and he said Jesus Christ.

(CROSSTALK)

WEINSTEIN: And you have to wonder as the caucuses are coming up if people are making -- changing their minds in the evangelical community, in the last 24 to 48 hours, if maybe Marco Rubio is jumping into that consideration between Donald Trump and Ted Cruz. BROWNSTEIN: A slight dissenting note. Rubio's strength, like many

politicians, is also his weakness. He is trying to appeal across the full spectrum of the Republican coalition. He basically was signaling to evangelicals last night. That is a crowded lane.

The lane that is more open for him is the more secular, white-collar managerial side of the party that doesn't have a favorite. It's a door he just does not want to walk through, even though it is the lane I think is the clearest for him to advance as the counterpoint to both Cruz and Trump. Doesn't want to go down that road.

BALDWIN: Ron Brownstein, Susan Page, Jamie Weinstein, let's do this for the next couple of days, shall we? We're not missing a beat. We're here in Iowa, of course, through the caucuses Monday night. Do not miss CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION" Sunday morning. Jake Tapper will interview Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio and Bernie Sanders just one day before the all-important Iowa caucuses, 9:00 in the morning, again, Sunday only here on CNN.

Coming up next, is Donald Trump's political strategy comparable to, say, an episode of "Celebrity Apprentice"? We will to someone who knows a thing or two about politics, Trump and his former show. Former "Apprentice" runner-up and former congressional candidate Clay Aiken joins me next. We will marinate on that.

Also, we're following the breaking news. As we just reported, one of the three inmates who escaped from that California maximum security jail now in custody, surrendering. The Orange County Sheriff's Department says he turned himself in to police about 20 minutes ago. But the other two are MIA.

You're watching CNN's special live coverage of what's happening here in Iowa and beyond. I'm Brooke Baldwin. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:18:47]

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. We're live here in Des Moines, Iowa. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Great to be with you.

Here are some numbers for you, $6 million for 22 different veteran groups. That was the final tally of Donald Trump's rival political event turned fund-raiser in Iowa. Trump spent the majority of the evening focusing on veteran issues, but he started out by pretty much doing a roll call of his billionaire buddies who pitched in for the cause.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: And he's giving Ike and Laurie Perlmutter $1 million.

J.J. Cafaro from Florida and from Cleveland, he's a man who made a lot of money and Cleveland does a good job and a fantastic man, $50,000.

J.J., thank you. When he gives one million, you know what that is 10 cents, but for him, very important.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: OK. This is a man who likes to talk about money. No surprise there.

But my next guess knows that showmanship show better than most. He is Mr. Clay Aiken of "American Idol" fame who was also the runner-up on season 12 of "The Apprentice."

Clay Aiken, nice to see you.

CLAY AIKEN, FORMER "AMERICAN IDOL" CONTESTANT: Good to see you. Thank you for having me.

[15:20:05]

So, let's take a little trip down memory lane, shall we, and watch a clip from the show first.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Clay, I love Simon Cowell. He's a friend of mine. Who's tougher, him or me?

AIKEN: It's tough.

You know, I think Simon has a certain degree of knowledge on the music business, but his knowledge of music business compared to your knowledge of the business world business is much more minimal. So there's a certain degree of nervousness we get around you, because there's kind of that level of respect.

TRUMP: All right, you gave the right answer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: OK, Clay, I'm just going to ask you, just be real with me. Do you feel like with this Trump event last night and the reading off of the names and the money that was raised and the out-strategizing and the one-liners and the stunts, are we watching a real-life episode of "Celebrity Apprentice" here?

AIKEN: It sounded to me, when I was watching it last night, I was thinking the same thing. It sounded exactly like when we were on "Apprentice" and we were naming off the celebrities who gave -- who donated to our charities while we were raising money too.

So I noticed that myself. And I thought it was pretty interesting that he mentioned that he gave $1 million. I thought that was a little bit, I don't know, self-serving or what. But it was funny that he didn't leave himself out.

BALDWIN: What was that experience like for you? And how would that translate to as you're watching this pretty successful bid by Mr. Trump? What about what you saw firsthand and the showmanship and the brains behind this whole operation that's really working for him now?

AIKEN: The truth is, he's a very nice guy in person. And I don't think you become as successful in business as he has without knowing how to, A, get along with people and, B, get your way in some way, and he's become successful both in business and sort of in that reality TV world.

And it has a lot to do with the fact he knows how to play the room. He knows how to work the room. And I think even last night was a strategic move on his part, because he knew if he wasn't there, then people were going to attack Ted Cruz. And that's who he wanted to attack the most, that's who he needed to bring down a notch.

So it was, in a way, I think kind of strategy to be out the way so that he wouldn't be the target and Ted Cruz would be the target. He's smart and he knows how to strategize.

BALDWIN: Let me ask you about the Dems. In the past, I know that you have compared Hillary Clinton to a leaky boat. Do you still feel that way? Explain that analogy for me.

AIKEN: I do.

I think that at times, we have seen a lot of trouble coming out of the Clinton camp and the Clinton campaign. And we have seen her struggle with this e-mail server issue, the FBI investigation issue. For me, I was always sort of rooting for Vice President Biden to get into the race because I thought he was sort of a straight talker like the Republicans have been sort of touting on their end.

I do think that Hillary Clinton is a person who is qualified and ready to be the commander in chief. But I think in a race between her and Donald Trump, for example, you would end up finding yourself with someone hospital you didn't necessarily think was qualified, but who you knew was going to say what they felt in Donald Trump vs. someone who's incredibly qualified in Hillary Clinton, who I think a lot of people in the country don't necessarily thinks she says what she means, but instead says what she thinks she has to in order to get elected.

And that's what concerns me, because I do want a Democratic administration next time.

BALDWIN: Yes. No, I know you do. And I remember we talked about your love for the vice president. But with regard to the president, I know during your unsuccessful congressional campaign, you distanced yourself from President Obama.

Yet when you watch Hillary Clinton on stage, be it our most recent town hall or debates, she's like bear-hugging the president. I'm curious what you make of that.

AIKEN: I think, first of all, it would be sort of a misnomer to say that I distanced myself from the president. I ran in a distract that was incredibly gerrymandered and incredibly red.

And I think when you're running in a district where you have a lot of people who are not in the same party as you are, you have to look for opportunities for common ground. And so what I did during my race was certainly not distance myself from President Obama.

I said all along that I supported Obamacare. And I said all along that I supported a lot of initiatives that the current administration has. But I looked for places where I might agree with those folks who didn't agree with him. And education policy was one of them. NSA surveillance was another one.

I certainly in my district was running against a very red electorate. And for Hillary Clinton, she's running in a Democratic primary. And you have got to appeal to the Democratic base and the people who vote in a primary, as I saw during my primary, which wasn't that easy myself. You have to appeal to those folks who are most adamantly support of the party because those are the ones who vote in the primaries.

Hillary Clinton is bear-hugging the president because that's what is necessarily for her in a primary.

BALDWIN: Clay Aiken, thanks for swinging by. I appreciate it.

AIKEN: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

[15:25:00]

Clay mentioned those e-mails of Hillary Clinton. We have got some breaking now news involving precisely that, a State Department decision now not to release some 22 e-mail chains because they contain top-secret information. New details just into CNN. We have that for you on the other side of this commercial break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: All right, breaking news here.

The State Department says it will not release 37 pages of Hillary Clinton's e-mails.

CNN's chief security national correspondent, Jim Sciutto, is going to report on this. And I have here with me in Des Moines Ron Brownstein, CNN senior political analyst and editorial director at "The National Journal."

But, Jim Sciutto, first to you. Which e-mails are these?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Here's what we know at this point, Brooke, the State Department announcing itself that it will not release 37 pages of Clinton e-mails -- these were seven e-mail chains, they say, that add up to 37 pages -- because those e-mails contain what State Department says is a category of top- secret information.

Now, to be clear, the State Department says --