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Senator Ted Cruz made a controversial claim on carpet bombing; State department has decided not to release emails of Hillary Clinton; Candidates talks about their religion during their Iowa campaigns; 3:30-4p ET

Aired January 29, 2016 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[15:30:00] JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: These were seven email chains they say that add up to 37 pages. Because those emails contain what state department says is a category of top secret information. Now, to be clear, the state department says these emails were not marked as classified when they were sent. This information not marked as classified when it was sent.

But let me add another qualifier here because this is confusing stuff. Whether that information was indeed classified at the point they were sent is something the state department says will look at independently. In effect, another investigation to see when that determination is made because, and you follow this, Brooke. We have been following this for months now, this question. Some of the information can be determined after the fact to be classified. Doesn't relate to all these emails that have been sent and released. But some could be determined to be classified after they were shared.

Regardless, the key headline here, 37 pages of these emails, seven email chains do contain information that the intelligence community says is not a lower level of classification but a top secret classification. This is a very high classification in the intelligence community.

One final note I will say Brooke is this, this is all the result of a foil request releasing these emails kept on Hillary Clinton's private server while she was secretary of state. All those documents, some 50,000 pages, were meant to have been released by tonight. They have been coming out every couple of weeks, a few thousand here, a few thousand there. This was meant to be the deadline. But because of these emails and this determination that contain top secret information, they won't meet that deadline. So some of those emails will not be released because they have discovered this after going through them. So it means the story continues to keep alive here. And it is something the state department says it's going to continue to investigate.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: So on that point Ron Brownstein, I'm turning to you, it keeps coming.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It keeps going.

BALDWIN: More in Iowa. What's happening in three days, the caucuses? How does she get past that? BROWNSTEIN: Well, you know, they have been hoping you get to the end

and everything is out and then the damage has been done and you can begin to rebuild. And look, this does not breach her final line of defense that she has said. I did not send anything that was marked or see that it was marked classified at the time. And the fact that it was so sensitive that it cannot be released even in redacted form has to compound the questions about the judgment in going down this route in the first place. And the shadow is real. It's affected her. It's not necessarily decisive in her ability to win the nomination of the presidency, but does have a real cost. And it is not going away.

BALDWIN: I was just getting news in my ear that apparently now in mere minutes the Hillary Clinton campaign has responded and they firmly oppose keep blocking of the release of the emails. So there you have it.

BROWNSTEIN: Argument, you know, this is not the argument you want to be in heading into Iowa and New Hampshire where you face a very difficult challenge on both fronts.

BALDWIN: Ron Brownstein, thank you so much.

Let's talk more politics here in Des Moines. CNN's been fact checking the Republican candidate's claims including several points Senator Ted Cruz made at that Republican debate. In one in particular, he made this comment about the 1990 gulf war and the use of carpet bombing- style attacks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, you claim it is tough talk to discuss carpet bombing. It is not a tough talk. It is a different fundamental strategy than what we've seen from Barack Obama. You want to know what carpet bombing is? It is what we did in the first Persian Gulf War, 1,100 air attacks a day. Saturation bombing that utterly destroyed the enemy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Here's the truth to that. It's entirely false. Here to explain why, CNN military analyst lieutenant general Mark Hertling, a veteran.

General Hertling, why is that wrong, what really happened?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: In desert storm, Brooke, you're talking about an air campaign that was geared against the fourth largest army in the world with a lot of targets at the time. The Iraqi army was the fourth largest in the world with tank divisions and infantry divisions and they also had a huge amount of infrastructure in Baghdad. It was not carpet bombing then either. It was precision bombing against those divisions and against the infrastructure in Baghdad. The same kind of targets don't exist in such large scale now. So trying to compare what's going on against ISIS against what happened in desert storm is like campaigning apples with tennis rackets. They're two different types of campaigns. BALDWIN: And when you talk about precision strikes versus carpet

bombing, we heard from former secretary of defense Robert Gates saying carpet bombing doesn't work because it just kills too many innocent people.

HERTLING: Well, and that's true too. But the fact of the matter is that even in desert storm when there were those 1,100 air strikes a day and I was there and experienced some of that, they were precision weapons for the most part as well. They were used in air force was using what's called dumb bombs at the time but they were very -- even on that occasion they were you'd precisely on specific targets.

When you are talking about an air campaign against targeting like this, the target packages, the things you are attempting to strike, are very specific in the age of modern warfare. There is - certainly there is a thing you could do in terms of carpet bombing. The Russians are doing some of that in Syria. And it's generating quite a few enemies for them. This is not the kind of aerial campaign we like to use anymore because we like to be more precise. It's first of all less expensive but it's also -- it doesn't create as many enemies when you're killing innocent civilians. And it's also usually not a war crime.

[15:35:45] BALDWIN: Lieutenant general Mark Hertling form someone who would know, thanks for the fact check, sir.

HERTLING: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, Donald Trump try to keep the controversy alive over Ted Cruz's Canadian birthplace. And now a harsh response from the Cruz camp today.

Also ahead, Marco Rubio touts his deep religious beliefs on the debate stage. We will look at the battle for Iowa and evangelical votes in both parties. Stay right here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:40:33] BALDWIN: All right, so we have even more news on these Hillary Clinton emails. We are just talking to Jim Sciutto on one ground seen specifically on what we are hearing now from the state department that they will be withholding these initial emails, these emails deemed top secret, these 37 panel pages of emails.

In addition to that, we are now hearing an additional from the state department, 18 emails, eight different email chains between specifically Hillary Clinton and President Obama are being withheld. Whether or not those are classified emails, that's not been confirmed yet.

But again that is an addition to the previous emails that we just reported. So, and again, this between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. Obviously, the question as this continue to rollout, how does this affect Hillary Clinton as we are sitting here in Des Moines, Iowa, three days away from the all-important first of the nation's caucuses. Let me bring in commentator Michael Smerconish, host of CNN's

"SMERCONISH" and our chief political analyst Gloria Borger.

Gloria, to you first, I mean, this just keeps coming at, you know, the Hillary Clinton camp. How do they move past this?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, what they have done is they are saying, look, we want every email to be released. We believe that nothing should be classified. They have called this over classification run amok. They believe that the state department wants to classify too much. That was the first shoe to drop today.

The second shoe is the question of Hillary Clinton emailing the president of the United States and the state department has said, you know, the president needs to feel that he can receive and respond to emails in a free and unvarnished way. And that they're withholding it I think largely because it was a communication with the president of the United States not necessarily that it's classified. But just that they would like to keep it private. However, all this nuance --

BALDWIN: Is this the biggest development, Gloria? Is this the biggest development in this whole email story?

BORGER: Well, I think these two choose together. Really, really feed the Republican line that Hillary Clinton shouldn't have done this, that she has something to hide, that that's the reason she established her own private server, that she went around the law and I think you're going to be hearing more and more of this.

You know, Republicans haven't stopped talking about the emails. Bernie Sanders may not want to. We'll see how he reacts to this. But I think that this just fans the flames here once again. And no matter what the nuance is about whether things are over classified or whether it was a communication with the president, it doesn't matter. It's more of the same. And it's right before the Iowa caucus.

BALDWIN: I'm reminded of course of the Bernie Sanders, you know, line about enough about these damn emails and I'm wondering if he's going to be changing his tune in the final stretch here in Iowa.

Michael Smerconish, let me bring you in and just ask you here about Donald Trump slamming the debate performance of his closest rival in Iowa, Ted Cruz, even though Trump didn't even show up at that debate. At a rally today, he even went there and mentioned Canada again. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Ted Cruz may not be a U.S. citizen. But he's an anchor baby. No, he's an anchor baby. Ted Cruz is an anchor baby in Canada. But Canada doesn't accept anchor babies. They just waited a long time.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BALDWIN: I can tell you that Cruz's camp responded with the statement here quote "the only anchor here is the one being dragged behind the SS New York values causing Donald Trump's campaign to stall out as voters learn about his affinity for Hillary Clinton and his previous stated support for supporting abortion.

Michael Smerconish, your reaction, sir.

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He had been aggressive for the last three weeks, just at a point where it look like Ted Cruz have momentum that it shifted to his side. Donald Trump went on the offensive. He hasn't let up. He is not going to let up through Monday night. I happen to think that last night was a net clust for him by not showing up. I don't know if he did calculus. But by not being on that stage, he put Ted Cruz in a position where everyone else focus on Ted Cruz and yet Trump still stole a big portion of the spotlight.

So he had the best of all worlds. He receives mostly favorable press. He was giving money to veterans or so it seems. And he left all the dirty work behind to those other Republican opponents.

[15:45:11] BALDWIN: Well, let me add to that calculus saying that both Huckabee and Santorum were standing right there with him. These two people who have won Iowa before. And when you look at the optics, and here where we are referring, I mean, they are like standing behind him at this podium, which is where you normally see people when they're endorsing a candidate, Gloria Borger, what do you make of that?

BORGER: Can you spell evangelical? Because, you know, Donald Trump, in order to stay ahead of Ted Cruz, needs to get some evangelical support that he wants desperately. And while these two folks did not endorse him, obviously, they are participating in the Iowa caucuses.

Just having Huckabee and Santorum, two former winners of the Iowa caucuses, who appeal to evangelical voter s on the stage with him, forget the fact they were talking about veterans, but on the stage with him is a very good picture for Donald Trump to have, just like Jerry Falwell. And you know, evangelicals are the base of Ted Cruz's support. I went to a Cruz rally in Iowa the other day. It was kind of like going to church, right, that's what his rallies have become. And anything that Trump can peel away from him among those voters is going to be good for Trump.

BALDWIN: You mentioned church. That also makes me think of Marco Rubio, Michael Smerconish. My final forty seconds I have with you here, you know, I know the Rubio camp talks about three, two, one, in terms of finishes in here in Iowa, New Hampshire and then South Carolina. Well, what's the headline Tuesday morning?

SMERCONISH: Well, I think Rubio adjudicated himself well last night. I thought that he had a fine performance. I don't think that there was really much blood drawn in that skirmish between he and Cruz on which is more for amnesty. And I think that probably most folks who are watching that last night said yes, I can see Rubio in third position and then in second position except John Kasich is still closing in New Hampshire. So that's who he has to be worried about.

BORGER: Yes, and by the way, the Rubio people are low balling everything. You know, you say to them is there a chance you can come in second in Iowa, do better than you think in New Hampshire, and they're low balling it because they want a lower expectation so that anything he does looks terrific.

BALDWIN: Gloria Borger, Michael Smerconish, thank you both so much. And make sure you watch "SMERCONISH" tomorrow morning with lots and lots that you want, 9:00 eastern right here in CNN. Thank you.

Next, more on our breaking news involving those Hillary Clinton emails. State department decision not to release emails, some seven email chains because they contain top secret information. Also learning about exchanges between President Obama and Hillary Clinton. We will have more of those new details just in to CNN. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:52:00] BALDWIN: As Bernie Sanders' momentum builds, it is possible he could become America's first Jewish president as a matter of his heritage. But he could be the first modern president who is not especially religious. The Vermont senator recently told "the Washington Post" he believes in God but doesn't participate in organized religion.

Contrast that with the democratic front-runner, Hillary Clinton. She and her husband now speaking now more and more openly about her united Methodist faith.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In the Methodist church, the founder, John Wesley, said that we live under a simple obligation to do all the good we can in whatever ways we can to all the people we can for as long as we can. She lived by that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now, "Buzzfeed's" senior political writer, McKay Coppins. He is also author of "the Wildness," a book about the Republican Party. Good to see you.

MCKAY COPPINS, SENIOR POLITICAL WRITER, BUZZFEED: Hello.

BALDWIN: On faith and especially with hearing Bill Clinton talk about Hillary Clinton's faith, Hillary Clinton talking so openly about it, yes, we're in Iowa where this pew poll found four out of five people identify as Christians. Is that what this is all about?

COPPINS: Well, I think if you go back -- I don't want to be too cynical, but if you go back to every Iowa caucus forever --

BALDWIN: Forever? COPPINS: You hear candidates talk a lot about their faith in the last

days. And some of the most successful ones for months and months in advance. I think and that crosses party lines. It's not just that most of the voters here identify as Christian, you also have much higher percentages of church going and church going frequency in Iowa than other states. And so, Democrats and Republicans have to show their faith on their sleeve a little bit more than they might in other states.

BALDWIN: Do you think, though, that Iowans see these candidates rolling into town. They're listening to them suddenly for the first time and who know how long, talking about their faith? Are they hip to what's going on?

COPPINS: Well, and that's the thing about Iowa voters. They are very discerning. We talk about in political, how they're very knowledgeable, they pay attention, they take the process seriously. That's true. They also, you know, they know a charlatan when they see one. They know when somebody is, you know, pandering to them. And I think that to a certain extent, that's why you see on the Republican side a lot of people kind of in these last days accusing each other of authenticity or phoniness when it comes to Christianity.

BALDWIN: On the Republican side we've heard a number of them talk about it, specifically especially last night on the stage, Marco Rubio. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let me clear about one thing. There's only one savior and it's not me. It's Jesus Christ who came down to earth and died for our sins. The bible commands us to let our light shine on the world. For over 200 years, America's light has been shining on the world and the world has never been the same again.

Because in the end my goal is not simply to live here for 80 years, but to live in eternity with my creator. I will always allow my faith to influence everything that I do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And that wasn't the only moment on the stage last night from Marco Rubio to talk about his faith. You know, a lot of the headlines are Marco Rubio trying to steal evangelical voters from Ted Cruz, but it is something that he talks about that doesn't get a lot of coverage from the media out on the trail that's important to him.

[15:55:07] COPPINS: Well, and I think that there's a reason for that. You know, I think it's a little too cynical to say things like what Rubio said are just plays for the religious vote in Iowa. He does talk about his faith quite a bit, actually. He actually has a very interesting faith journey. He was baptized Mormon when he was young. He was Mormon for a few years. He is catholic now but attends sometimes an evangelical church with his wife. And that's something that, you know, voters think is interesting. It's something that reporters don't always think is as interesting partly because we tend to be a secular bunch and also because it's not necessarily what political reporters cover. But I just -- I think that he is -- some of that is sincere and I think that voters will see that.

BALDWIN: It's a huge part of the story here in Iowa, that is for sure.

McKay Coppins, good to see you. Thank you very much, the "Buzzfeed."

And coming up next here on CNN, see what happened when Jake Tapper went hunting with the Trump family. Do not miss this. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)