Return to Transcripts main page

Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

GOP Debate. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired January 29, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Starts right now.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

First up, a heads up. In just a few minutes, President Obama, live at the White House, with a formal announcement of his program aimed at closing the wage gap based on gender, race, and ethnicity. We're going to, of course, bring you that live programming the minute it's up and running at the White House, when the president walks out on to that stage. They're moving the (INAUDIBLE) as we speak so the president cannot be far behind. It's scheduled for about 10 minutes from now, but we are always sort of nimble with these schedules, especially when it comes to the White House.

So, instead, right now, men and women elbowing to become the next president. Most of them, anyway, were actually in the state of Iowa on TV last night or at least on one kind of TV last night. I know, it was sort of confusing, but the Republicans, Bush and Cruz and Rubio and Christie, have all got planned events in Iowa today. Remember, the people there are casting the country's first votes on Monday. The Clintons, all three of them, in fact, as well as Bernie Sanders, are going to show up at Democratic rallies in mostly southeast Iowa today. This is officially the final push to the big day of the caucuses.

And look who has decided to skip Iowa altogether. The big guy, Donald Trump, letting his seven point lead do all of the talking for him in that first of the nation state. Focusing instead for him, New Hampshire, where primary day is February 9th.

So last night, for the first time, the man at the center podium was Senator Ted Cruz, instead of Donald Trump. And here's what the front page of "The Des Moines Register" looked like this morning. Ouch. Four words. "Rough night for Cruz." Granted, Cruz is not that paper's endorsed candidate. "The Des Moines Register" supports the guy on his left, Senator Marco Rubio.

And you can say what you want about Donald Trump. The man knows how to make his presence felt, even when his presence isn't even there. He was nowhere near that room. At the Republican debate last night, Trump has basically redefined the tone. He redefined the language and the demeanor of the American political debate. But it seems different and incomplete just because he was not there. Even Jeb Bush said it. Maybe with a little bit of sarcasm, but he said it, I kind of miss Donald Trump. Those were the words of Jeb Bush. He was kidding, of course. John Berman is in Des Moines, Iowa. And we just got the early overnight ratings in which tell us that the event had a bigger audience, the Republican debate, or the Donald Trump event that was trumpeted as an alternative viewing experience. The debate really slammed, 8.4 household rating. That's effectively four times the audience for the Trump event, which was carried on two networks simultaneously, here at CNN and also on MSNBC.

So, John Berman, still, this is the second lowest rated debate of the season. And I'm only guessing that Donald Trump will seize on that and use it to his benefit.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Oh, no question. I mean it's about half as many people likely who watched it in the first debate that was on Fox, and Donald Trump claimed credit for that absence. I am sure he will claim credit for absolutely anything and everything he can.

Now, as you just mentioned, Donald Trump, he's not here in Iowa. He's in New Hampshire today. He was at a rally in Nashua just a few minutes ago. He said he is glad that he skipped the debate last night. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Cruz is in second place. He got really pummeled last night. Actually I'm glad I wasn't there because I guess all of that - he got pummeled. Wow. And, you know, they didn't even mention that he was born in Canada, right? You know, it's - when you're born in Canada, you're not supposed to be running for president of the United States. Prime minister of Canada, no problem. No, no, he can run for Canada. There he is. That's right. He can run, prime minister of Canada, no problem. But - so he got - he got beaten up pretty badly last night. I don't know what's going to happen to his poll numbers, but probably they're not going up. And I was just told that ours went up because of what we did last night. Isn't that something? You know -

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: There are a great many Republican candidates who probably wish that Donald Trump was never in this race. Last night they got a chance to be on a debate without Donald Trump. And for some, it might have been a case of be careful what you wish for.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN (voice-over): For a debate stage absent of Donald Trump, it was hardly a debate absent of Donald Trump. From the very first question -

MEGYN KELLY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Before we get to the issues, let's address the elephant not in the room tonight.

BERMAN: To the very first joke.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL: Let me say, I'm a maniac, and everyone on this stage is stupid, fat, and ugly. And, Ben, you're a terrible surgeon. Now that we've gotten the Donald Trump portion out of the way -

[12:05:10] BERMAN: To a completely changed dynamic, where with no Trump lightning rod, other candidates had to dodge bolts.

CRUZ: So I would note that the last four questions have been, Rand, please attack Ted, Marco, please attack Ted, Chris, please attack Ted, Jeb, please attack Ted. Let me just say this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a debate, sir.

CRUZ: Well, no. No, a debate actually is a policy issue, but I will say this. Gosh, if you guys say - ask one more mean question, I may have to leave the stage.

BERMAN: And some candidates got flat out more attention. This was Rand Paul questioning Hillary Clinton's values relative to her husband's infidelities.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I do think that her position as promoting women's rights and fairness to women in the workplace, that if what Bill Clinton did any CEO in our country did with an intern, with a 22-year-old, 21-year-old intern in their office, they would be fired. They would never be hired again.

BERMAN: The most extraordinary moment of the night even came on an issue Donald Trump put front and center, immigration. It led to an all-out melee. Jeb Bush versus Marco Rubio.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm kind of confused because he was the sponsor of the gang of eight bill that did require a bunch of thresholds, but it ultimately allowed for citizenship over an extended period of time. I mean that's - that's a fact. And he asked me to support that. And I - I supported him because I think people, when you're elected, you need to do things.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's interesting that Jeb mentions the book. That is the book where you changed your position on immigration, because you used to support a path to citizenship.

BUSH: So did you.

RUBIO: Well, but you changed the -

BUSH: Yes.

RUBIO: In the book.

BUSH: And so did you, Marco.

RUBIO: You wrote a book where you changed your position from - no, you wrote a book where you changed your position from a path to citizenship to a path to legalization.

BERMAN: Rand Paul versus Ted Cruz. PAUL: I was there and I saw the debate. I saw Ted Cruz say, we'll take

citizenship off the table, and then the bill will pass and I'm for the bill. But it's a falseness and that's an authenticity problem that everybody he knowns is not as perfect as him because we're all for amnesty.

BERMAN: Ted Cruz versus Marco Rubio.

CRUZ: You know, John Adams famously said, facts are stubborn things. The facts are very, very simple. When that battle was waged, my friend, Senator Rubio, chose to stand with Barack Obama and Harry Reid and Chuck Schumer and support amnesty, and I stood alongside Jeff Sessions and Steve King, and we led the fight against amnesty.

RUBIO: This is the lie that Ted's campaign is built on, and Rand touched upon it, that he's the most conservative guy and everyone else is a - you know, everyone else is a rhino. The truth is, Ted, throughout this campaign you've been willing to say or do anything in order to get votes.

BERMAN: Chris Christie versus everyone.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I feel like - I feel like I need - I feel like I need a Washington-English dictionary converter, right?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: All right, big fight, everyone throwing punches, everyone except Donald Trump, who was not there.

Joining me right now, the communications director for Senator Ted Cruz, Rick Tyler.

Rick, great to have you here with us. I really appreciate it.

RICK TYLER, NATIONAL SPOKESMAN, CRUZ FOR PRESIDENT: Glad to be here.

BERMAN: I am sure I am not the first one to show you this. This is the cover of "The Des Moines Register" right now which says, "rough night for Ted Cruz."

TYLER: Yes, and just on the inside of that page, they endorsed Marco Rubio before. And the reason they did is because the editorial of "The Des Moines Register," which is a left-leaning paper, likes amnesty. They like comprehensive immigration reform. And so they like the gang of eight. And so their candidate is Marco Rubio.

BERMAN: I will get to immigration in just a moment. Donald Trump, who was not "The Des Moines Register," said your candidate got pummeled. Again, was this Ted Cruz's best debate?

TYLER: You know, what I saw last night was more about New Hampshire, ironically, than it was about Iowa because the one - the person who wasn't going to win Iowa, Donald Trump, you know, cut and run. He didn't go to the debate. Now today he's in New Hampshire, so he's not competing in Iowa. So he wants to have a - provide all these excuses of why he's going to lose Iowa.

BERMAN: He's coming back. He's coming back here.

TYLER: He'll come - he'll come back.

BERMAN: He's got a plane. He can go wherever he wants.

TYLER: But everybody - everybody else, no one else on the stage is going to win Iowa so they were all - they were all pivoting or they were all pivoting and trying to position themselves for New Hampshire because all of them - almost everybody else on that stage except for Ben Carson has a single state New Hampshire strategy. So that's what you were seeing last night is jockeying for position to win. They're not going to win Iowa. They've got to win New Hampshire.

BERMAN: Are you going to win Iowa?

TYLER: I hope to win Iowa.

BERMAN: Do you have to win Iowa?

TYLER: We don't have to win Iowa. We've been the underdog for this entire race.

BERMAN: You weren't the underdog for about a month. You were leading in the polls by a lot.

TYLER: We have. But if you look - if you look back from the beginning, we were at 4 percent in the polls, and we've steadily built our way up. And now we're either in the lead or tied, and we'll find out Monday night. But I don't think we have to win Iowa because we've built our campaign for the long haul. That's why we spent so much time in the south. In the SEC states. And we've organized there. We have 200,000 volunteers and today we announced that we have 19 - have $19 million cash on hand as of the fourth quarter, which is more money than most candidates would have raised in the fourth quarter.

[12:10:09] BERMAN: That's a lot of money.

TYLER: That's a lot of money.

BERMAN: No question about that.

There was also a lot of flak, a lot of punches being thrown on that stage last now.

TYLER: Right. Kept coming.

BERMAN: Particularly on the issue of immigration.

TYLER: Yes.

BERMAN: Ted Cruz was right in the middle of it. We can talk about the Marco Rubio exchange. Let's look at the Rand Paul exchange first. Rand Paul, who is, you know, libertarian, conservative guy, said that Ted Cruz has an authenticity problem when it comes to the issues that I think you think is one of the hallmarks of your campaign.

TYLER: Well, I would disagree. The immigration fight was clear, and talk radio will clarify that today because Marco Rubio has been trying to change what happened.

BERMAN: This is - this is Rand Paul. Let's talk about Rand Paul. Rand Paul says you have an authenticity problem.

TYLER: Well, Rand Paul got - finally got back on the stage, so I'm sure he would try to attack - but Ted Cruz does what he says and says what he does. And the reason we're doing the full grassley here in Iowa is because Ted Cruz says he was going to do it. And I read - I read an article today from the AP. You know, why should he do that? Why should he go to all these small towns? Is he going - is he going to lose? No, because he said he would do it. And so we're going to finish it.

BERMAN: Then there was that clip. They played it last night at the debate there, where you have sound of Ted Cruz saying he wants people to come out of the shadows.

TYLER: And everybody who followed the gang of eight knows exactly what that was about. He had introduced a bill that said that people who were here illegally would never get citizenship. And he was articulating the gang of eight's own talking points to get them to - to call them out on, why don't you pass this - why don't you pass this amendment on citizenship if these are the real things that should (ph) matter. So they take it out of context.

And, by the way, Marco Rubio introduced an amendment to a bill for the Iran deal, which the Iran deal most on the right agree that would give Iran nuclear weapons. So he introduced an amendment that said they must recognize Israel, and we supported that. Everyone would support that. So by his logic, he wants Iran to get nuclear weapons by offering an amendment to a bill.

BERMAN: That's what Chris Christie would call the Washington to English dictionary right there.

TYLER: (INAUDIBLE) right about that.

BERMAN: Last question. Ted Cruz used a word last night. I think it was an insult, but I've never quite heard it used this way before. He called Marco Rubio smooth. What did he mean by that?

TYLER: Well, Marco Rubio is very articulate. He speaks very fast. I thought last night he seemed very defensive. And you know what I miss about Marco Rubio was the joyfulness he used to have and the smile and the easy-goingness. I haven't seen that Marco in a long time. Marco Rubio looks tired and like he's angry and he's not having a good time. And so, look, I think Ted Cruz is having a good time last night. I think he was in command of the facts. He did take some incoming, but he handled it well.

BERMAN: Rick Tyler, great to have you. Thanks so much.

TYLER: All right. Great to be with you.

BERMAN: Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: All right, thank you to the two of you and thank you to Rick Tyler for coming back because we invited him yesterday and he was good to his word. We appreciate that.

And we've got a reminder for you as well. Any minute now we're going to hear from President Obama. He's being introduced right now by a woman named Lilly Ledbetter. And if that name is familiar to you, it really should be. She's the namesake for the Lilly Ledbetter Act, and it is the seventh anniversary of that equal pay act. She was named for her because she was the plaintiff in Ledbetter versus Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company. The plaintiff in that American employment discrimination case.

So we're going take a quick break, in the meantime, because we want to get right to the president's comments.

In fact, you know what, let's listen in. Let's skip the break and listen into Mrs. Ledbetter.

LILLY LEDBETTER: And we have household expenses that my husband's paycheck didn't cover. I was the only female supervisor, and it took as little time off as possible because I never knew if my job would be waiting for me when I got back.

Almost two decades into my career at Goodyear, I learned through an anonymous note that I was being paid thousands of dollars less than my male counterparts, men doing the same job as me. All I could think about was how much my family had done without over the years and how I would never catch up to my male co-worker's salaries, nor would I ever have the same level of retirement benefits and Social Security. Nobody wants to be the poster child for unequal pay for equal work, but spurned on by that note, that's exactly what happened to me.

My legal battle for fair pay wound its way up to the U.S. Supreme Court. And when they decided in 2007 that Goodyear had been paying me unfairly, long enough to make it legal, I knew I wasn't ready to give up fighting for fair pay. I won't lie to you, I was pretty devastated by that decision, but I fought back. Standing next to President Obama when he made the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, the first bill he signed into law, was one of the proudest moments of my life. And it was a great day here at the White House. But I knew our work was only beginning.

[12:15:02] My bill was just a down payment in this fight. In the years since, the companion bill to my law, the Paycheck Fairness Act, has passed the House twice, but we came two votes short in the Senate on two votes. While paycheck fairness has since stalled in Congress, we're not giving up on it. Our federal laws badly need an update. And in the meantime, President Obama has not rested on his Ledbetter laurels. He created equal pay task force to make this issue a priority within his administration and has taken executive actions to improve equal pay for people working for federal contractors. Now, support for equal pay has caught fire in state capitals with legislation being introduced in almost 30 states. Many of them dropped (ph) this week in honor of this anniversary.

I may have lost my personal battle, but I refuse to lose the war. I will keep fighting for all of the women and girls who deserve equal pay and equal treatment under the law, and I know we'll always have a powerful ally in President Obama.

Nothing brings me greater joy than to be here today among friends to mark the anniversary of my namesake bill. All of us have to keep fighting for equal pay for equal work. That's not even a question. But it's important that we take times like this to celebrate our progress and strengthen both our resolve and our momentum. We owe it to our daughters, our granddaughters, and to ourselves. We owe it to our nation.

Now, please join me in giving a warm welcome to one of our greatest champions and my friend, the president of the United States, Barack Obama.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you. Thank you, everybody. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.

Everybody have a seat. Thank you so much.

I heard you all were in the house, so I wanted to stop by.

We've got some important personages here, so let me just call them out. We got Senator Amy Klobuchar. Where's Amy? There she is. Our outstanding labor secretary, Tom Perez. The chair of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission Jenny Yang is here. One of my favorites, the outstanding Billy Jean King is in the house. And, of course, Lilly Ledbetter is here.

You know, Lilly's just become a dear friend to our family. And I can tell you that she's beloved, not just by us, but by all the staff that work with her. She's just terrific. As she just mentioned, she was by my side when I signed my first bill into law, the Lilly Ledbetter Pay Fair Act - Fair Pay Act. And I was looking at a picture of that wonderful event, and she looks the same. And I don't.

But while we've got a lot to celebrate that day, we knew that our work wasn't done. We knew we had a lot more to do to close the pay gap between men and women and insure that no woman would ever face the kind of discrimination that Lilly faced on the job. And everybody here knows the numbers and many of you have experienced. Today, women account for almost half of the work force, but the typical woman who works full-time still earns 79 cents for every dollar that the typical man does. The gap's even wider for women of color. A typical black working woman makes only 60 cents. A typical Latino woman makes only 55 cents for every dollar a white man earns. And that's not right. We're talking about oftentimes folks doing the same job and being paid differently. And it means that women are not getting the fair shot that we believe every single American deserves.

[12:20:03] It doesn't just defend our values at a time when women are increasingly the breadwinners in our households. Paying them less makes it harder for families to cover the necessities, like child care or health care, just to pay the bills. It makes it harder for families to save, harder for families to retire. It means local businesses have customers with less money to spend. So it's not good for our communities. It's not good for our families. It's not good for our businesses. What kind of example does paying women less set for our sons and daughters?

So today we're taking one more step in the right direction. We are proposing to collect and report pay data by race, ethnicity, and gender from businesses with 100 employees or more. And the goal is to help businesses that are trying to do the right thing, like the ones here today, to get a clearer picture of how they can insure their employees are being treated equal. A better picture of the data will also help us do a better job enforcing existing equal pay laws.

Now, this won't solve every problem. We've still got to get more women and girls into high-paying fields like science and technology, engineering and math. We still got to make sure that women are not penalized or held back in the workplace simply for starting a family. Guys, we're, you know, responsible for the family thing too. And they're already doing more work than we are in getting that thing going. They shouldn't be penalized twice or three times.

We still need to raise the minimum wage. Guaranteed pick - sick - guaranteed paid sick and family leave. Fully protecting pregnant workers. Finally passing the Paycheck Fairness Act to give workers more tools to fight pay discrimination. And all of us have to make sure that all of our young girls know that we're invested in their success.

And by the way, I do want to emphasize, there are businesses that are doing the right thing. You know, we've got a good friend of ours, Mark Benioff, the CEO of salesforce.com, which is consistently shown as one of the companies people most like to work for, and part of the reason is, is that Mark understands that his company thrives when is he drawing from the entire pool of talent out there and making sure that everybody is having a chance to thrive and succeed at his company. And when people see that, they're working harder and more productive and more enthusiastic and ultimately they make more money.

So this is not an either-or proposition. This is a - this is a win-win situation if we think about it in the right way. It's part of what Billie Jean taught us so many years ago. I mean those of you who are tennis fans, let's face it, you know, a lot of times the women's tournaments are more interesting than the men's.

And the notion that somehow we would be keeping my daughters or Mark's daughters, or any of your daughters, out of opportunity and not allowing them to thrive in every field, not letting them fully participate in every human endeavor, that's counterproductive. That's not how we're going to build a great future for our country.

So that's why this May, the White House Council on Women and Girls, will lead a day focus on women in America and around the world, and we're going to bring people from all across the country to examine the progress that we've made and the work that remains to give every woman and girl in this country a fair shot at success. And we're going to keep pushing until every single girl has the rights and the opportunities and the freedom to go as far as her dreams will take her.

This will be a long haul. You know, one of the things that I am consistently reminding young people when they're working here in the White House is that social change never happens overnight. It is a slog. And there are times where you just have to chip away and chip away. And then suddenly there may be some breakthroughs. But it's reliant on all of us to keep pushing that bolder up the hill, to just be steady and persistent and understand that the work that we do today is ultimately going to lead to a better future tomorrow.

[12:25:11] And we will not see necessarily all of the fruits of that labor, the same way that Lilly described her endeavors. You know, when she lost that court case, she could have given up. But she didn't. And that spirit is what all of us have to adopt. That's the spirit that built America. That's the spirit that opened up opportunity for so many more people than a generation ago. And that's the spirit that I intend to keep pushing as long as I have the privilege to be in this office.

All right. Thank you.

BANFIELD: So the president with this initiative. By the way, if you don't know Lilly Ledbetter's story, it's - it is pretty remarkable. She worked for Goodyear for about 20 years. And when she was leaving, she found out she was making $3,727 a month and found out that the guys were making $4,286, all the way up to $5,236. So she sued, and she won. Like $3 million won. And then that was reduced to $300,000. And then, guess what, the Supreme Court decided, sorry, you were too late. You were too late so you don't get any of it. And that's why the president went ahead with the Lilly Ledbetter Act.

So, obviously, it's near and dear to his heart. This, his first act that he signed as president. And so today, seventh anniversary, announcing further initiatives for pay equity for women with monitories, with regard to race, et cetera.

OK, so also we've got this just in to CNN. President Obama is also announcing plans to revisit the place where his historic presidency began, which, of course, you will remember, Springfield, Illinois. It's going to be February 10th, nine years to the day that he, as a junior senator, announced his candidacy back in 20017 on the steps of the old state capital. The president plans to address the Illinois General Assembly. An administration official says that the president is going to use that speech to discuss, quote, "what we can do together to build better politics" in the last months of Obama's time in office.

Coming up next, did the debate do anything to change things on the ground in the all-important state right now of Iowa? Or could a last minute blitz by the candidates, hitting every corner of the state, dictate what happens on Monday? Who is on a roll? Who has ground to make up? And, by the way, who's got the best ground game going? More from Iowa, next.