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Three Inmates Who Escaped a California Jail Last Week Now In Custody; Iowa Caucus Set on Monday; President Barack Obama Calling on Congress to Pass The Paycheck Fairness Act. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired January 30, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:00:13] POPPY HARLOW, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. Top of the hour, 3:00 p.m. eastern, 2:00 p.m. in Iowa where the race for the hearts and minds of Iowa voters is in full swing ahead of the first of the nation's caucuses on Monday. I'm Poppy Harlow in New York. So glad you are with me. My friend Brooke Baldwin will be with us for coverage from Iowa.

We have complete coverage on the final sprint to Iowa and the caucuses in just a moment. I do want to get to some breaking news, though, off the top here.

After more than a week on the run, all three inmates who escaped a California jail last week are now in custody. Right now we are waiting to hear from the Orange County sheriff. Looks like she is just getting ready to speak. Her name is Sandra Hutchins. Let's listen in.

SHERIFF SANDRA HUTCHINS, ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: -- folks that are standing with me today. I have the chair of the board, and fifth district supervisor Lisa Bartlett. First district supervisor Andrew Doe, third district supervisor Todd Spitzer, the Orange County district attorney will be joining, Tony Racacas (ph) will be joining us shortly.

I have FBI, Orange County supervisory special agent Eric Mayo and U.S. Marshals chief inspector Bert Tapis and two of the primary investigator incident command folks that have been working this from the beginning, Captain Stu Greenburgh (ph) and Lieutenant Dave Sawyer.

Yesterday Vicki Vargas asked Jeff, Captain Jeff Polec, is now that we think these dangerous individuals are up north, can the residents of Orange County breathe a sigh of relief? And he said, absolutely not. Well, I can say this morning that the entire state can breathe a sigh of relief. Because we have the other two dangerous individuals back in custody where they should be.

Hossein Nayeri and Jonathan Tieu have been captured and were taken into custody this morning by the San Francisco police department. At approximately 8:50 this morning, San Francisco police officers from the park district station were handling an unrelated medical aid call in the area of Haight and Stannian, in the city of San Francisco. A female citizen approached the officers and pointed out a white van parked in the parking lot of the whole foods market located at 690 Strannian. Officers approached the van, as Hossein Nayeri fled the area on foot. A short foot pursuit ensued before Nayeri was taken into custody by officers. Officers immediately returned to the white van and discovered other escapee, Jonathan Tieu hiding in the van. San Francisco police department has confirmed the quite van is, in fact, the same one stolen from Los Angeles that we believed they were driving and possibly living out of.

Based on the preliminary investigation and search by San Francisco police officers, a number of 380 ammunition rounds were located in the van. However, no weapon was recovered. Both suspects have been arrested and taken to San Francisco police department's park district station, and will soon are transported to the San Francisco county jail. Orange county sheriff's department investigators are in San Francisco and will be interviewing both suspects in an attempt to gather additional information.

We are currently in the process of coordinating with San Francisco sheriff's department, to coordinate transportation of both Nayeri and Tieu back to our custody here in Orange County. We have a lot of people to thank.

HARLOW: All right. There you have it. The Orange County sheriff Sandra Hutchins speaking at a press conference, something she has wanted to announce for about a week now, that they have indeed captured all three of these inmates that escaped that prison there in California. They are all in custody. We know one of the inmates, Bac Tien Duong (ph) turned himself in yesterday. The other two were still on the run until this morning. There had been an all-out searched for them sine they escaped. They are considered extraordinary dangerous one charged with murder, another attempted murder, a third with kidnapping and torture.

Cristina Alesci with me in New York following all of it.

You know, the way they escaped is unbelievable. Cutting through half- inch steel bars, making their way through plumbing tunnels, rappelling off of a roof.

[15:08:08] CRISTINA ALESCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Rappelling off a roof with sheets that were braided together.

HARLOW: Right. And learning mow how they found them. Sounds like in San Francisco?

ALESCI: That's right. So it seems like a citizen, an ordinary citizen spotted their getaway vehicle, this white van they were living out of, which is an incredible story, and such a nail-biter for authorities, 200 to 250 law enforcement personnel on the hunt for these guys for the last eight days. One of them turned themselves in on Thursday. You know, the initial thinking, when we first got the headline, was maybe this guy had information that led authorities to the other two, but it seemed like just a random citizen. Also, what makes this such a nail-biter is the fact that three

escapees, not only did in she this elaborate plan but they also a 15- hour head start on authorities before anyone knew. They did a head count at 8:00 a.m. -- sorry, 5:00 a.m., and they didn't do another until 8:00 p.m. when, you know, then it was discovered that these three guys were missing.

But here's the other thing, too. With such an elaborate plan authorities now believe they had to have help from the inside.

HARLOW: Right. So there's this person they're looking at, right? A 44-year-old who taught ESL class, English is second language lesson in the prison. And I understand one of them was taken to class, but already spoke English?

ALESCI: Yes. So that suspect. The woman has said she did not give them any weapons, but she just provided them with a map of the surrounding area. So there had to have been other people cooperating.

Also, what has been reported, there was some kind of disturbance or fight that delayed that evening check, and that may have happened on purpose, deliberate to distract the guards from this very elaborate plan.

HARLOW: But now, we know, the three of them are all in custody, again, charged with attempted murder, murder, kidnapping and torture. A lot of people on edge when they were out. They're in custody.

Cristina will continue to follow that for us. Thank you so much.

ALESCI: Of course.

HARLOW: We have a lot more to get to. If you haven't heard, it's a big weekend in Iowa. We turn now to the latest in the presidential race this weekend. It is all eyes on Iowa. Look at that beautiful video of Iowa. The state famous for its rolling farmlands and major college sports, it's at the center of the political universe right now as we count down to the first official votes of 2016 in this presidential election.

In just two days, Iowans head to the polls and for the candidates it is a sprint to the finish. Rallies, restaurant shops, town halls, house parties, you name it, the candidates are everywhere. Literally everywhere. Look at that map across the state trying to get their message out. Try and count them. These are all the place, the Republicans are set to hit, just this afternoon and the tonight. The Democrats also crisscrossing the state at this hour. We will have two major candidates speaking in Iowa coming up, in just a bit. Ted Cruz, also Bernie Sanders speaking at half past the hour.

Another reason we are watching the clock tonight at 7:00, Iowa's flagship newspaper the "Des Moines Register" will release its final poll before the Iowa caucuses. Why does this poll matter so much? Because it is considered the gold standard in terms of getting it right in all of its accuracy. My friend, colleague, Brooke Baldwin live for us in Des Moines for our entire show talking about all of it, talking to pundits. What are they saying?

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: There is so much to talk about on this beautiful Saturday. You can just feel it, sort of this 48 hours, the final push, the final moments for all of these different candidates, all vying for the votes from these caucus goers here in Iowa come Monday night. I have an entire 18-panel to sort of walk through why Iowa, Iowa is even relevant? What these candidates are doing in these final stretches ahead of Monday night in the caucus?

But first straight to Dubuque, Iowa, to Donald Trump talking there. Talking about theatrics. There was a flyby. We will show you the video momentarily. But let's just dip in and listen.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: USA! USA!

So ridiculous. It's so crazy. You know, if we spoke to those people, assuming they have good intentions, if we spoke to them for a few minutes, we could convince them, I think, unless they're on something, which is a real possibility, because you really say, what are they doing? All right. Get them out. Get them out. Get them outta there. Come on. Let's go, Scott. Come on, Scott. Let's go. Get them out. Thank you.

BALDWIN: I'm giving you a little flavor here of this Trump rally. Let's be clear. Others as well. Not everyone comes to support, whichever candidate. You're going to have some folks in the crowd go rogue, some protestors. And so, that appears to be him directly approaching and maybe Scott security. I don't really know.

But anyway, Donald Trump there in Dubuque, Iowa. Next he's heading to Clinton, Iowa, where he's set to speak in just over an hour. We have lots of candidates obviously zigzagging the state. So we will dip in on any of these rallies as we continue on here live.

But let's actually stay there. This is where CNN's national political reporter Maeve Reston is at that Trump rally.

And, Maeve, let's talk about the all-important evangelical vote here in Iowa? A pew poll says four of five Iowans identify as Christians. Crucial for these candidates and Trump knows it. Tell me about this video released this morning.

[15:10:37] MAEVE RESTON, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, they clearly are the key voting block here in Iowa, Brooke. As you said, they are the most reliable voters to show up on Monday night. And Trump has been making a huge push for evangelicals. One of the most fascinating things about the race, is that he has pulled even among evangelicals nationally in our poll and some others. They have been seesawing back and forth between Trump and Ted Cruz.

And today, Donald Trump put this video on Facebook where he showed that the bible that his mother gave him and talked how special it was to him. Thanked evangelicals through supporting his campaign. He has been trying to talk more about his faith, sometimes with very mixed results, as we know. So he is really trying in these final days to convince these voters that he is an authentic conservative, that he does share their faith, and he is battling against lots of ads from Ted Cruz and Ted Cruz's allies going after his evolution on abortion as well as other issues. So it's going to be a key test to see whether or not he can overcome some of those doubts on Monday night.

I have talked to a lot of evangelical over the last couple of days who said that this is a really agonizing decision for them between Ted Cruz and Donald Trump. They are trying to sort out the fact that their head is with Ted Cruz, but their heart is with Trump and they think that Trump would be the stronger nominee. So we will see on Monday.

BALDWIN: We will indeed. And keep in mind, tomorrow is Sunday. You think of church. I'm wondering about sort of the politics from behind the pulpit across the state here in Iowa.

Maeve Reston, thank you so much.

We'll talk to evangelical. We will talk about the fact we know that Ted Cruz' camp is taking a lot of his negative ads against Donald Trump and moving them towards Marco Rubio. Does Rubio have an opening after that strong debate performance the other night? We'll discuss that.

And the state of Iowa. The first in the nation's caucuses Monday night. Why is it so important?

We'll be right back.

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[15:15:53] BALDWIN: All right. Back here live in Des Moines, Iowa. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Just two days until the first of the nation caucuses here in the Buckeye state. And that question is how important are the Iowa caucuses really to the bigger picture, the entire presidential race?

History tells us winning both Iowa and New Hampshire is likely a path to the White House. No candidate, as democrat or Republican, has lost the nomination after winning both Iowa and New Hampshire since Ed Musky in 1972. Conversely, not finishing first in either state presents massive hurdles. No candidate has won the nomination without winning either Iowa or New Hampshire since Bill Clinton in 1992. You with me?

Right now, candidates are crisscrossing this state making the last- ditch efforts to sway caucus goers here. Campaigns are scrambling to ensure their loyal base turns out come Monday. Have we mentioned there's supposed to be snow? We will get to that later. We will see major surprises in Iowa once the caucuses come to a close potentially.

So let's talk all of this over with our political panel with me here at Des Moines. Democratic strategist Hilary Rosen is here. Republican consultant Margaret Hoover and Ryan Lizza, Washington correspondent for "the New Yorker."

Awesome having you all here. Let's geek out, if we may, for a second. On Iowa, and you know, to you, first, looking at you. You know, the party rules changed in the '70s.

RYAN LIZZA, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORKER: Yes.

BALDWIN: Thus starting the Iowa caucuses. So, you know, I think to answer the question, why is Iowa relevant? Give me a little history lesson.

LIZZA: Well look, it's mostly relevant because it's the first contest, right? And all of us are here covering it. So the amount of attention you get by winning Iowa, coming in second or third is absolutely massive, right? So that is the most important part of it.

The number of delegates you get out of Iowa is very, very small, right? There are a lot of states we get more delegates, but go first, you're incredibly important. The most important thing is, you don't -- just because you win Iowa doesn't mean you're going to win the nomination. Iowa, winnows the field. That's the big thing it does. If you come in, if you don't come in third you are not going to be the nominee on either side.

BALDWIN: It is full-press question before I go to you, Margaret Hoover. I just want to show you a split screen because just right now, as we also know that Donald Trump is Dubuque, Iowa. We know that Bill Clinton, somewhere in this crowd, Bill Clinton is there stumping obviously for his wife on this trail in Iowa falls. So just to give you an idea how incredibly busy this push is in the last couple of days.

Go ahead, Margaret.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You asked about the history of the Iowa caucuses and how it came to be. And you know, really started on the Democratic and it goes back to the 1968 Democratic convention in Chicago which I many ways was boos a bit of a bloodbath, not necessarily literally, though there were riots in the street because delegates couldn't get in. It was viewed as a really not transparent, not open, not breathable, honest process. And as a result all of the states went back to their process, their delegate- selecting process and tried to clean the map and start afresh.

Iowa said, every part of it a part of our process. We are going to start, we are going to make the platform totally open. Everyone is going to participate. In order to make it open and breathable and transparent, they had to start very, very early in the process. Not knowing they would be first in the nation, turns out they really ended up being the first and then that over time in 1972, was the first time it was, the caucuses were first in the nation, but they made Jimmy Carter in 1976. And now --

BALDWIN: But so much --

HILARY ROSEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Protected their spot as the first ever since.

BALDWIN: But how much is it still relevant because of all the big money, it is about endorsements, it is about flyovers, as we are going to show you. You talk about theatrics and Donald Trump. We have a picture of his plane going through sort of this massive window. It is almost like a rock concert, or so he hopes.

I mean, look at this. This is how Donald Trump arrives at rallies.

ROSEN: Two things to keep in mind, and I will talk about Trump after this, but the -- Iowa was, is the place where candidates get human. And it is very hard for candidates to get human after Iowa. And so the history and the rationale for why Iowa matters is because it is still retail politics. It is still candidates going into literally living rooms and meeting people and telling them --

BALDWIN: Or it was before Donald Trump --

[15:20:01] LIZZA: I was going to say, exactly.

HOOVER: That would be the old paradigm.

ROSEN: And you know, Trump hasn't done much of that at all. Trump, I think forever changed the rules when he landed his helicopter at the --

HOOVER: Iowa state fair.

ROSEN: At the Iowa state fair and started giving people rides on his helicopter. That changed everything. But for --

HOOVER: Personally, the --

ROSEN: Virtually every other candidate has been, you know, running through this gauntlet and that gauntlet is incredibly important. And it's important for viewers and television viewers outside of Iowa, because that's where we see the candidates acting more engaged.

BALDWIN: Hillary and Margaret and Ryan, you are with me the entire hour. We have so much to go through. I think it's important to sort of set it, talk Iowa and then we have to talk specifics on these candidates. Stay with me. Here in front of the beautiful state capitol in Des Moines.

Now to this, after all of the campaigning, the debates, it is decision time on Monday and it all comes down to this, the Iowa caucuses are here. We are all over it all day long. All-day coverage of the Iowa caucuses only here on CNN.

And when we return, more here from Iowa. News today of a potential opening for a Florida senator named Marco Rubio. After this debate performance the other night, some things are shifting. Some things are changing.

We will also talk about the all-important evangelical vote and what you need to know ahead of the first of the nation's caucuses Monday night. I'm Brooke Baldwin, live special coverage continues live, after this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [15:25:10] HARLOW: Welcome back. We are continuing to follow the final days before the critical Iowa caucuses. I'm Poppy Harlow in New York. My friend Brook Baldwin live for us in Des Moines, Iowa.

It remain to be seen whether Donald Trump's decision to boycott this week's FOX News debate will pay off for him in the long run, one thing is clear without Trump on that stage. Everyone else piled on his biggest rival Ted Cruz.

The headline of Friday's "Des Moines Register" declaring it Cruz' rough night. And when the reporter asked if skipping the debate was part of a bigger plan, a master plan to take down Ted Cruz, well, here's what Trump said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: You not there at the FOX debate your main rival in Iowa, Ted Cruz, listen, he was getting pummeled from left and right. Was this maybe by design? Did you think about this all along?

TRUMP: Well, a lot of things have happened since then, you know, because you saw the result. And he did. He got very badly hurt and he's going down. Ted Cruz is going down. Plus the candidate problem. And he has got a huge problem. That problem with Canada is to whether or not he can even run. I think he cannot run. So we will see what happens.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: But it wasn't by design?

TRUMP: Well, I would like to tell you it was by design. Maybe it was by instinct.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Maybe it was by instinct?

With me now, Roger Stone, former advisor to Donald Trump, still very much a Trump supporter, author of a new book, "The Clintons war on women."

And Roger, let's listen in right now to what Donald Trump said just a moment ago bashing Cruz.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: A person certain I know, who is that person? Ted Cruz, who was not born on U.S. soil. It's a problem. He has going to have to solve -- by the way, he has to solve that problem. That is an incredible -- the Democrats are going to sue. I mean, he was born in Canada. He was a Canadian citizen until 15 months ago. How the hell can he run for president?

And a lot of constitutional lawyers have just, and I'm not just talking about Lawrence Tribe from Harvard because he said that it is unsettled law. But now, they are coming so you just can't run. You just can't run. And he really can't run. I mean, I don't think, but you're going to have to find out. The problem is, whether he can or whether he can't, it has to be tested through the court system. So he has to go in, get a declaratory judgment, do something quickly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Clearly he's going after Cruz, because they are running pretty closely to one another in all the latest Iowa polling.

Roger Stone, you, my friend, just got off the phone from Donald Trump about an hour ago. What he say?

ROGER STONE, DORMER POLITICAL ADVISER TO DONALD TRUMP: He just called to thank me for my comments this morning on CNN. It was a very brief conversation but he is very confident. He is having the time of his life. He is really enjoying this. He talked about how great the people are he's meeting. Very short, but he's feeling like a winner.

HARLOW: When you listen to all of this and those words we heard him say, "by instinct," right, talking about choosing not to be on the stage. This strategy with FOX, et cetera. I just wonder, you were so close to him for so long, you clearly still talk to him. Was this boycott against the FOX News debate more than just him being mad at Megyn Kelly? Was this more of a thought-out strategy so Ted Cruz would take the heat?

STONE: Yes. First of all, I think Donald Trump is very improvisational. In other words, it is not like there is a master plan. He has got great instincts and he makes good decisions in the clinch. For example, this Canadian issue, which I was skeptical about, but it really has hurt Ted Cruz, polling shows that. And it has raised serious questions in voters' minds about this eligibility.

HARLOW: So you are saying no master plan?

STONE: No. Donald Trump is his own strategist. He is also his own tactician, his own logistician.

HARLOW: But listen to this. A fascinating piece in the "Wall Street Journal," this week. And it details how Trump comes up with these lines of attack, right. Because once he has them, he hammers them and hammers them and hammers them.

Here is what it said. Sitting in his cream colored leather club chair at a pearlwood desk trimmed in his 24 karat gold, he read and watched news reports on the race. Jotting down notes on his perceptions of the candidates' flaws.

He is preparing -- is he just giving the preparing that he is off the cuff?

STONE: No. I think that it is gut instinct. I mean, just because you take a few notes, it still, he is not getting this from polling or focus groups or a cadre of advisers. He speaks from the heart and it's his gut instincts that have gotten him this far. He doesn't need a political strategist. He is his own political strategist.

HARLOW: I want you to listen to this comment that he made in New Hampshire on Friday. Let's roll it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I don't even think I have to campaign anymore. Why am I even wasting my time? I don't have to campaign. I could leave here right now they're going to vote for me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: He also said, he could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue, shoot someone, his supporter would stay just as loyal. You just told me that he's working so hard. Harder than you've ever seen him work before.

STONE: Yes, he is.

HARLOW: Does he really think he doesn't have to campaign anymore?

STONE: No. I think he was being jocular. But he has changed the way campaigning has worked.

HARLOW: He's changing the entire game.

[15:30:00] STONE: He has indeed. He could use not doing the kind of retail campaigning that Iowa is famous for. He has instead had enormous rallies where they are capturing data from all of those people. A surprising number of Democrats and independent showing up at those rallies. So Trump's greatest strength is also now his greatest challenge. He has created a large enough pool of people, people, to win the Iowa caucuses. Can he convert them to voters? Those who have never voted before who were turned off. Can he get them out? Democrats who can switch very night of the caucus, get them out? Independents, can he drag them in? He is bringing bunch of new people to the process.

HARLOW: So what would -- you were standing by his side in Iowa right now in the final, you know, 48 hours, what would you be doing with him, telling him to do to make sure that those that show up at the rallies actually go out on caucus on a night, by the way, there may be a big snow storm.

STONE: First of all, he has got a very good organization on the ground. He has got very good people that know what they are doing. Because they have done it for other candidates before.

HARLOW: What would you do? What would you tell him? Mr. Trump, do this.

STONE: I don't think I have any advice for him. He is doing the right thing. He dominated the news cycle going into the caucuses. He put Ted Cruz in harm's way by letting him get pummeled in that debate. The only other suggestion I make is keep an eye on Marco Rubio because he is moving up the side.

STONE: Well, that is it interesting that Ted Cruz's strategy in Iowa, the last 24 hours has changed to all attack on Rubio? Not Trump. STONE: Because you have two different intramurals going on here.

First of all, there is a face-off for the conservative position between Trump and Cruz. And then you have Marco, Christie, Jeb, Kasich all in the moderate lane. And I think the two camps produce a clash, which I predict will ultimately be Trump v. Rubio.

HARLOW: We'll watch. Roger Stone, so nice to have you on. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

We are standing by in Waverly, Iowa. Bernie Sanders about to speak at rally there. As you know, it is a neck and neck race between Sanders and Clinton in the Huck eye state. We will take you there live as soon as it begins.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:35:10] BALDWIN: And we are back. I'm Brooke Baldwin live here in Des Moines, Iowa. Poppy Harlow back home. And you are talking politics for us ahead of the all-important caucuses here in the Huck Eye state.

Bernie Sanders is going all-out this weekend ahead of Monday's caucuses. He has four different campaign events today in the eastern part of Iowa. Senator Sanders has been steadily gaining on Hillary Clinton with consistently large and energized rallies and steady fund- raising and he has done it without a super PAC or deep-pocketed backers. Right now, he has set of these people volunteers in Waverly, Iowa. And that is where my colleague Brianna Keilar is at the moment covering today in this moment the Sanders campaign.

Brianna Keilar, I mean, we talked so much about the energy at the Sanders' rallies. You know, he told CNN the other day that no, he doesn't think he could quite hit the mark then Senator Barack Obama did in 2008. You think that's sort expectation, or he is actually telling the truth there?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I think part of that is certainly expectations. And I think part of that, Brooke, is him trying to tell his supporters, really, what this message is going to be about here at the college in Waverly which is we need to increase the turnout. He is so dependent on caucus goers who might not normally participate in this process. That's what then Senator Barack Obama relied on to get his win here in Iowa. And that's what Bernie Sanders is going to need, because he has a lot of energy from people who maybe don't normally participate in the process. But I do think he is sort of managing expectations as well in case he doesn't manage to eke out and upset over Hillary Clinton in Iowa.

BALDWIN: You know, your point about turnout and, you know, having covered so many of these rally, a lot of young people on these crowds for Bernie Sanders, I'm wondering, a, are millennials going to turn up on Monday night to caucus and, b, there's this snow situation also on the horizon that could also keep people from going out.

KEILAR: So that's actually the good news for Bernie Sanders at this point, Brooke, is talking to our weather folks about what the outlook is for Iowa. Earlier it looked like there might be wintry mix for the southern third of the state come Monday night. It looks like that gets pushed off until after midnight. So after the caucuses would be over. Of course, bad weather will dampen the turnout. So for now, at least, that appears not an issue. So that maybe something that, you know, Bernie Sanders certainly, he can feel sort of lucky about that, that maybe it's not going to dissuade some of the caucus goers who might not normally participate in this process from coming out for him.

BALDWIN: The other point about the Iowa caucus is the fact that, you know, you can walk in, and you can be -- your mind can change, right? And that's what a lot of these candidates are banking on. What do you think? What does Bernie Sanders need to say to those undecided in these final 48 hours? Last question.

KEILAR: You know, I think what he is going to be making the case for is that they shouldn't necessarily take the established route. He is going to be, as he has, characterizing himself as an alternative, as someone who is principled, as someone who really sticks to what he believes in, and he's going to be trying to dissuade people from supporting Hillary Clinton when it comes to, for instance, Wall Street. This is something that he has been hammering her on over and over. So I think we are going to see him continue to do that here on this final push to the caucuses.

BALDWIN: Brianna Keilar, thank you very much in Waverly, Iowa at that Bernie Sanders event. Thank you very much.

And again, jut remind you, 48 hours. This is the final push here in Iowa for these candidates to try to at least -- the beginning steps of clinching that nomination. More from my panel coming up, Ryan Lizza, Margaret Hoover and Hilary Rosen. Standing by, talk on the democratic side about Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders specifically and more news on more debates.

Back live, after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:42:38] BALDWIN: And we are back live here in Des Moines in front of the state house here. Bernie Sanders says his race against fellow Democrat Hillary Clinton is quote-unquote "a toss-up." A senior Sanders advisor tells at CNN quote "nothing final until dates and cities are locked down."

Our CNN political commentators are back with me. Ryan Lizza, Washington correspondent for the "New Yorker." Democratic strategist Hilary Rosen and republican consultant Margaret Hoover.

So, Hilary Rosen, I'm looking straight at you here on this whole back and forth. The debates over the debates. First, it was a historian on the Republican side. Now, we know that Hillary Clinton has committed to four more debates. And you have been part of this whole negotiation process which I'm sure a story in and of itself between camp Sanders and camp Clinton. What can you share? ROSEN: Well, you know, really, this is about the Democratic National

Committee, not me or anybody else does. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, chairman of the party, has been talking to Sanders campaign, the Clinton campaign and Martin O'Malley campaign. And there was always a desire, I think, to add more debates to the calendar if the candidates, you know, were still as close as they are going forward and I think when they have something to announce they will, but you know, it's obvious both campaigns have said they want to do more it debates. There's a lot of interest in what happens in New Hampshire. So, you know, I think we'll hear something very soon.

BALDWIN: I know you can. I can know -- on the debate dates, that is up to Debbie Wasserman Schultz to release but safe to believe all before Super Tuesday?

ROSEN: Well, there already are debates before Super Tuesday.

BALDWIN: Right. Additional debates?

ROSEN: There is already a PBS debate and Univision debate that will go forward.

BALDWIN: OK.

HOOVER: So the issue is there another debate in New Hampshire next week. That would probably be almost three debates, then, we would see in the next few weeks.

BALDWIN: Who, with the news of the additional debates, Ryan Lizza? Who does this help more? Hillary Clinton or --

LIZZA: Good question.

BALDWIN: Bernie Sanders --

LIZZA: That's a good question. I could argue either way. I mean, I think the fact that the Clinton campaign has agreed to more debates suggests maybe they see it more as a strength. Remember, if you're the front-runner, if you are the dominant candidate in the race usually you don't want to debate. And I think as Sanders has come on a little stronger as polling is tightened, the Clinton world thought, well, you know, she's good in debates. Show her off in debates, and help, maybe they can help her put Sanders away if he takes off strong in Iowa and New Hampshire.

[15:45:00] ROSEN: So there is another issue, though, too, which is that the Republican nomination is sucking so much energy out of the media right now. And so, when you have debates, you do get focus time to get your points of view across, and Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders have now turned this race into a real divide of philosophies and some issues. And so, whereas before people were saying there wasn't going to be much of a democratic race. There really is one now and debates are a good way to put a point on that and to get some attention for it.

BALDWIN: What I think is interesting, though too, is you know, with the news during my show that the news broke from the state department about withholding more of the Hillary Clinton emails. The one bit, contained top secret information, the other 18 between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. We heard from Gloria Borger who is in touch with a senior campaign on the Sanders side. I found this interesting. She said Sanders is not intending to raise the email issue. Do we think that that will that change?

ROSEN: I don't think so. I think it would be very hard for him to do it at this point when he has gone so far out there saying that people don't care about this.

LIZZA: Famous lines of the whole democratic campaign.

ROSEN: Right. But there is I think that this issue of, we know Democrats don't believe that Hillary Clinton did anything wrong, and that we're not worried about this. That she's apologized for using bad judgment, having the server, there's no evidence that this goes much farther. This is a dispute within the state department. I think Bernie Sanders knows that Democrats actually don't want him to be attacking Hillary Clinton on this.

BALDWIN: Jump in, Margaret.

HOOVER: It's just not an issue in the democratic primary. It is simply is something (INAUDIBLE). I mean, this is incredibly important to Republicans, every single Republican who is in Iowa right now is talking about this as part of their stumps. But it is just not something that's going to move the needle one way or the other for Bernie Sanders or Hillary Clinton in the next three, four weeks, even four months.

LIZZA: Yes. His rout for defeating Hillary Clinton in the primary is much more ideological, talking about their differences on health care, on income inequality, on foreign policy. Liberals don't care about her emails, and that's why he hasn't made it an issue. If the justice department starts caring about those emails.

BALDWIN: Everybody's ears will go up.

LIZZA: That will do his work for him, right. He doesn't have to get involve in that.

BALDWIN: Speaking of Bernie Sanders. He is speaking. We talked to Brianna at that event. He is now up at the podium. Let's dip in Waverly, Iowa. Let's dip in.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: -- we're bumping into people trying to live on $10,000 a year of Social Security. But we are talking to young people, the age of some of the people in this room, who are leaving school horrendously in debt and have no clue as to how they're going to be able to pay that debt. A young man (INAUDIBLE) dropped out of college after two years $60,000 in debt. Another woman earning very, very low wages, paying, asked to pay $1,200 a month to pay back her student loan.

But Stephanie raised the right issue, and that is what this campaign is about. We are the wealthiest country in the history of the world. The most people don't know that, because almost all of the new wealth and income is going to the top one percent. And what this campaign is about, it's not just electing a president. It is to change our national priorities. It is to change the way we do politics, and the way we do economics in America.

And what am asking you is to bring out your friends and your family on Monday night so that Iowa can begin the process of creating a political revolution in which more and more people participate actively in the political process so that we create a government which works for all of us and not just a handful of billionaires.

(APPLAUSE)

BALDWIN: Listen, this is a front-row seat. This is Senator Sanders asking this crowd in Waverly, Iowa, please, come out Monday night to caucus for me. I just think it's fascinating to watch all of these smaller -- I mean, Hillary Rosen, you said it earlier, in terms of the importance of Iowa, these candidates literally come into your living room. And this is the perfect example of a quite simple event in Waverly, Iowa where these candidates are face-to-face with these folks here trying to get them to caucus for them.

ROSEN: And it is why people come from all over the country to the Iowa caucuses, because even for the media, it's often our best chance to get close to the candidates. Once these first couple of primaries go out this turns into a, you know, large-scale rally-centered campaign.

BALDWIN: Quickly, final word.

HOOVER: I just want to make a point, though, that in some ways the democratic side and Republican side are experiencing two totally different paradigms. I hear Hillary talking about the caucuses and it sort of a nostalgic for that old paradigm.

ROSEN: Right.

(CROSSTALK)

HOOVER: Here's the new world, Donald Trump does his flybys in Trump force one and is now the winner of Iowa. Forget the barbecues. Those are off.

[15:50:03] LIZZA: And if he wins, he will make -- I mean, it could -- a lot of Republicans here think it could end the caucuses as they know it if Donald Trump wins this thing without doing any of the things you used to have to do to win it.

HOOVER: It will then secures the importance of Iowa because if he is the nominee, and he wins Iowa, Iowa remains relevant.

BALDWIN: Margaret Hoover, Hilary Rosen, Ryan Lizza, thank you so much.

Coming up here, President Obama's push to close the wage gap between men and women, the plan of withhold companies accountable for making sure employees get equal pay for equal work. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:54:18] HARLOW: All right. We do have some breaking news for you out of Denver, Colorado right now. Denver police are tweeting images, you are looking at live aerial pictures. They are also tweeting images of what appears to be multiple shootings they say and a stabbing at the Denver coliseum. Those are some of the photos from the Denver police.

Again, multiple shootings and a stabbing at the Denver coliseum. Denver police dispatcher saying that the national western stock show is in the area. But they could not say whether the incident, the shootings and stabbings, took place at the stock show. We will bring you more as soon as we have it.

Again, no word how many have been injured if there are fatalities. But again, multiple shootings reported at the Denver coliseum, an arena that holds about 10,000 people are in the arena there. Multiple shootings and stabbings, no word on fatalities or the number injured. We'll bring you more, of course, as soon as we have it.

All right, shifting gears. In this week's American opportunity, President Obama making a push yesterday to close the wage gap. Discrimination in pay has been illegal since 1963, still a very much a reality, though. Today, 72 million women make up 47 percent of the work force in the United States and two-thirds of the workers who earn just minimum wage, well, they are women.

We know women are an only 79 cents for every dollar a man earns, so should companies be on the hook to publicly disclose pay gap that exists between men and women doing the same job and what about minorities doing the same job?

The president coming out yesterday publicly saying yes. He announced new rules that if passed by Congress, would require companies with 100 employees and more to report pay data by gender, race and ethnicity.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The notion that somehow we would be keeping my daughters or Mark's daughters, any of your daughters, out of opportunity, not allowing them to thrive in every field, not letting them fully participate in every human endeavor, that's counterproductive. That's not how we're going to build a great future for our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: The plan that the president says that he would like to see passed means if companies are found to have a gap and disparity in pay between men and women or minorities, well, they would face disciplinary action. They would appear on public records, the president is calling on Congress to take this up to pass what is called the paycheck fairness act. That is legislation that is being pushed by New York store Kirsten Gillibrand. I asked her about it just last month.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND (D), NEW YORK: So are paycheck fairness act is really a disclosure bill. So it does a couple of things. It says if you talk to your male colleague about how much you make, how much you make, you can't be fired for that. There are companies today that employees are discussing how much they make they could be fired. So it's protection. It also creates incentives for a company to actually post how much does, you know, my camera man and women earn, how much does my assistant earn and just check so that you're actually looking and creating transparency to say, is it really fair?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Is it really fair? President Obama's council on economic advisers have explored the state of the wage gap especially the gender wage gap and the race wage gap. They found the gap widens by race, with black women earning 60 cents to white men earning a dollar. And Hispanic women earning 55 cents for every dollar that a white male earns.

We will keep following this in American opportunity.

Coming up in just a moment at the top of the hour, we are back live in Iowa where Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, Marco Rubio, all scheduled to hold rallies this hour. Our entire team there live for you across the state. We'll be right back.

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