Return to Transcripts main page


E.U. Referendum Campaign Kicks Off in the U.K.; Super Tuesday Fast Approaching; Trying to Pause the Fighting in Syria; El Chapo's Wife Speaks; India's Water Crisis: New Delhi Protests Examined; Great Britain Potential Exit from EU; US Election Race. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired February 1, 2016 - 15:00   ET




GEORGE HOWELL, CNN HOST (voice-over): Tonight: are we seeing signs for hope in Syria?

There is a deadline for the break in fighting but we'll look at how the plan can be implemented in the middle of chaos.

Then the lines are drawn. Find out who wants the U.K. to stay in the European Union and who says it's time to go.

And Jeb Bush in the United States, he is out of the race. What that means for the remaining Republicans in the race for the White House.

Plus, El Chapo's wife is defending her husband. Hear her harsh words for the Mexican government.

Hello. I'm George Howell, in for Hala Gorani. Live at CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta, this is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.


HOWELL: And we begin this hour with what the United Nations is calling a long awaited signal for hope inside Syria.

A cessation of hostilities that was announced by the United States and Russia now set to take effect come midnight Friday. The U.S. secretary of

state, John Kerry, says he expects the deal not only to reduce violence but also to expand deliveries of humanitarian aid throughout the region and to

facilitate an eventual political transition there. We will have more on this story in just a moment.

First we move on now to the United Kingdom. Prime Minister David Cameron gave an impassioned plea for why he believes Britain should stay in the

European Union. Voters, though, will make that decision in June.

Cameron's speech in Parliament marks the beginning of what could become a very bitter and divisive campaign. In fact we're already seeing the prime

minister take aim at the mayor of London, Boris Johnson, who is campaigning for the U.K. to leave. Max Foster has this report.


MAX FOSTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Standing room only as David Cameron made his case to remain inside the European Union.

DAVID CAMERON, PRIME MINISTER, GREAT BRITAIN: We will be out of the parts of Europe that do not work for us, out of the euro, out of the Eurozone

bailouts, out of the passport-free no-borders Schengen area and permanently and legally protected from ever being part of an ever closer union.

FOSTER (voice-over): He described the deal as the best of both worlds. But he hasn't got the support of both sides of the house: namely, from his

own party. Boris Johnson is amongst several high-profile Conservative Party members backing a so-called Brexit.

BORIS JOHNSON, MAYOR OF LONDON: Explain to the house and to the country in exactly what way this deal returns sovereignty over any field of lawmaking.

FOSTER (voice-over): The London mayor, who is also an MP, has said he'll vote to leave the European Union so a better deal can be negotiated with

Brussels that gives the U.K. more power, the prime minister quick to land his first punch.

CAMERON: This process is not an invitation to rejoin. It is a process for leaving.

Sadly, Mr. Speaker, I have known a number of couples who have begun divorce proceedings but I do not know of any who have begun divorce proceedings in

order to renew their marriage vows.

FOSTER (voice-over): Still, Cameron found more support from the opposition.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Labour Party and the trade union movement are overwhelmingly for staying in because we believe --


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- because we believe that the European Union has brought investment, jobs and protection for workers, consumers and the

environment. And we are convinced that a vote to remain is in the best interests of the people.

FOSTER (voice-over): The questions, however, kept coming.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can he tell the house in his estimation by how much the welfare changes will reduce immigration from the E.U. in the coming year?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When will they first begin to be eligible for some benefits?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We do not have the control without the permission of Brussels.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What can we do about these unfairnesses if we stay in the European Union?

FOSTER (voice-over): Cameron's answers resolute, insisting he got the best deal possible for Britain. Choosing to leave, he says, is choosing the


CAMERON: I'm not standing for re-election. I have no other agenda. I have no other agenda than what is best for our country.

FOSTER: So David Cameron has made his position very clear. It's now up to the other campaign, effectively led now by Boris Johnson, to explain why

Britain would be better off by leaving the European Union. We've got four months now of intense Brexit debate -- Max Foster, CNN, Downing Street,



HOWELL: So when it comes to the debate --


HOWELL: -- between these two political heavyweights, David Cameron and Boris Johnson have very different opinions on several of the main issues.

Let's first talk about sovereignty. Cameron says that the renegotiation means the U.K. is permanently and legally protected from being part of an

ever closer union.

Johnson, though, disagrees, saying the fundamental problem remains the E.U.'s aim of a, quote, "federal union."

Now to the economy. Cameron says that a vote to opt out would be a leap in the dark. Johnson says quite the contrary, that the risk of leaving is

likely exaggerated.

And on the big campaign issue of immigration, Cameron says immigrants claiming benefits will now no longer get, quote, "something for nothing."

Johnson says the topic demonstrates the impotence of politicians in controlling the issue of immigration.

So much to talk about on what is a great debate there in the U.K. Let's bring in CNNMoney editor at large, Richard Quest, live with us this hour in

New York.

Richard, always good to have you. This comes down to the question of whether Britain's economy would be stronger staying in the E.U. or leaving

the E.U. So this is something that is unprecedented. We've never seen a nation leave the E.U.

So can you paint the scenario of what it would look like if the U.K. were to leave the E.U.?

RICHARD QUEST, CNNMONEY EDITOR AT LARGE: The short answer to that, George, is, no, I can't because, until now, no country has left. Now the treaty

speculates or the treaty puts in place a provision for a country to leave if there is a legitimate vote. And then you give two years' notice; there

is an exit negotiation and off you go. But no country has ever done it.

And if the U.K. were to vote to do it, it would be not only extremely complex, difficult and rambunctious, it would have cost -- because London

is the financial center of Europe -- it would have an even greater dimension.

And what this really -- look, you can argue which way backwards, upside down, inside out as to whether you are better in or you're better out.

But when -- and there are economic benefits either way, George.

But when you read Boris Johnson's 2,000-word article in this morning's "Daily Telegraph," he really says it comes down to this: does Britain want

to be -- even with all the safeguards that Cameron's got -- moving in a union that is getting ever closer or coming to a completely new agreement

from square one, based on trade and commerce?

And that really is what this is all about. Europe has shifted. It has argued. It has prevented, really, any country ever asking this question so

far. The U.K. will be the first.

HOWELL: When you think about all the trade deals, though, that would have to be renegotiated, Richard, it just seems to be such a complicated

venture, something obviously the voters will have to decide.

I want to ask you --

QUEST: Exactly, George, on that -- on that -- there is a bit of sophistry on that because Johnson gets rid of that quite quickly by saying they can

be done relatively speedily.

And remember, there are models already in existence. You have got the EEA model, you've the Norway solution, you've got the Switzerland option. All

of these are countries that are outside the E.U. but have very strong trading relationships with the E.U.

And what he says is, of course, that there is every potential for that sort of deal.

But here's the other side -- absolutely the other side, which the prime minister said in his statement. This is different because here the people

are being asked to vote for a known certainty, i.e., stay in the union under the new deal or vote for complete uncertainty, because you don't know

what the exit negotiation will look like.

And that's what makes this so troublesome. So difficult for the "nos," for both sides. You don't know what the exit negotiation would look like.

It's not like an election. You get Hillary or you get Donald. You get David or you get whoever else it might be.

HOWELL: Right.

QUEST: Here you don't know what is on the other side.

HOWELL: It's that uncertainty, that old expression --

QUEST: And we're seeing that in the market --

HOWELL: -- the devil you know and the devil you don't, right, I suppose.

QUEST: -- we're seeing that in the market. The pound is down at a seven- year low. It lost nearly 2 percent in one day. And we've got many, many, many more days of this sort of volatility. One brokerage house today said

that the markets will become more jittery as the vote gets ever closer.

HOWELL: Richard Quest, live for us.

Richard, thank you for the insight and analysis. We appreciate it.

This is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. Just ahead, so many votes up for grabs and so little time. Donald Trump, his Republican presidential rivals are trying

to slow his momentum before Super Tuesday, that contest that could make or break their campaigns. We'll have that story.

And millions are without water in Delhi, India --


HOWELL: -- after protesters destroyed a main water source. What the government is doing to solve it. This is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.




HOWELL: America's choice and in the United States campaigns that are already in high gear are now shifting into overdrive with time now running

out before a critically important day in the race for the White House. That is when voters in more than a dozen states will have their say next

week on Super Tuesday.

The Republican field is now missing a familiar face, you see him here. Jeb Bush suspended his campaign over the weekend after a disappointing showing

in South Carolina's primary.

Donald Trump won that state. And if polls are correct, he looks set for another big win in the state of Nevada, where Republican caucuses are to

begin in a little more than 24 hours. Let's go live to Nevada. Sunlen Serfaty joins us live in Las Vegas this hour.

Sunlen, good to have you. So let's start with Ted Cruz.

How important is Nevada for him to gain momentum in the effort to overtake Donald Trump as an establishment candidate against Trump?

Or is this more of a prize for Marco Rubio?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well right now, really, the state of the race here is, in this post-South Carolina wake, is really between Marco

Rubio and Ted Cruz battling for second here in Nevada. Donald Trump has been the front-runner for a while. And both Cruz and Rubio today really

trying hard to temper expectations.

It's all about coming out of Nevada with some sort of momentum going into, as you described so well, Super Tuesday, a huge, important day in the life

of many of these campaigns.

And here on the ground, it is a different reality after South Carolina with Jeb Bush dropping out. There is a real scramble going on behind the scenes

to pick up Jeb Bush's donors, to pick up his supporters. So we've almost seen a renewed intensity, too, as the candidates, all three, Cruz, Rubio

and Trump, are here in Nevada today, they hit the ground, really kind of intensifying their attacks on each other, Marco Rubio going after the Cruz

campaign today for what they call "dirty tricks," Donald Trump going after Ted Cruz, kind of twisting the knife, saying you lost the evangelical vote

in South Carolina because you are a major liar.

And Ted Cruz really going after both of them. So, George, here on the ground it is a fierce fight. Of course, looking forward to the caucus

tomorrow night here in Nevada but looking much more forward to that big prize, Super Tuesday states next Tuesday -- George.

HOWELL: Well, Sunlen, since South Carolina, Donald Trump really has momentum.

So what are you hearing among establishment Republicans, conservatives, who -- they are having to choose between now either Marco Rubio or Ted Cruz?

Are they concerned?

SERFATY: Well, this is really where the big question is. You know, Donald Trump has, no doubt, the momentum right now. And you see Rubio and Cruz

really trying to both make --


SERFATY: -- the argument that they are the better alternative to Donald Trump.

For Marco Rubio, his campaign right now is really trying to consolidate the establishment wing of the party, to be able to make that argument with


Ted Cruz, on the other hand, he is arguing that he's the only candidate that has actually scored a win against Donald Trump. That, of course,

being his win in Iowa last month, really trying to lean on that to make the case going forward and argue in opposition of Marco Rubio.

Where could Marco Rubio win if he couldn't have won in someplace like South Carolina? George.

HOWELL: Sunlen Serfaty, live for us in Las Vegas, thank you for your reporting there.

A big week ahead in the presidential race: Democrats, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders, will face South Carolina voters in a CNN town hall. That

is Wednesday at 1:00 am in London, here on CNN.

And the Republican hopeful face off in a debate on Thursday in the state of Texas. You can see that here on Friday at 1:30 in the morning in London,

only on CNN.

Let's return now to the cessation of hostilities that is expected in Syria. The goal there, obviously, is to stop the fighting, except for when it

comes to terrorist groups. In fact, the fighting can continue against them. And that leaves a great deal of gray in this deal.

Following it all, our Nick Paton Walsh is live in Beirut this hour and has more to tell us about this.

Nick, what does it mean now that the cessation of hostilities is in effect but there is such a large window for fighting to continue?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SR. INTL. CORRESPONDENT: Well, the cessation of hostilities doesn't begin until midnight between Friday and Saturday. They

have been laid out a cautious and detailed potential time. But as you say, George, it has the potential for many massive flaws in it.

Now the first part of the sequencing means that those parties re supposed to be in the cease-fire have to declare their willingness to join it by

noon on Friday Damascus time. Then midnight Friday to Saturday, the guns should all fall silent.

The question many are asking is how long will it last?

And who really is, quote, "terrorist," and in whose eyes?

So often the question in conflicts like this. Now the parties to the deal should include the regime in Syria, its backers, which include Russian,

Iran and many militia assisting them, too, and on the other side, the Syrian opposition, excluding Al-Nusra, the face of Al Qaeda in Syria, and

ISIS, who are explicitly excluded from this particular deal.

Now the deal itself also goes on to explain how potentially the parties to it could exchange information about their positioning, where they are, the

strength of their forces to try and delineate better where Nusra and ISIS are and prevent any misunderstandings in the hope that this potentially

could lower the level of violence for quite a period of time and allow humanitarian aid into different parts of the country.

But there is great suspicion, certainly from the United Kingdom, about Russia's real motivations here. In fact, (INAUDIBLE) Philip Hammond, the

British foreign secretary, said it will only succeed if, quote, "there's a major change of behavior by the Syrian regime and its backers," Russia in

particular must honor this agreement.

Now the key element of suspicion here from the West, certainly, falls on Russia's motivation. It has always said it was fighting Syria in -- sorry

-- it was fighting ISIS in Syria.

But the West has pointed out how, in their take, so many of the attacks have in fact been against the more moderate Syrian opposition who oppose

the Assad regime.

The concern is they may use this window to continue such attacks but still claim they are in fact hitting ISIS. A lot could fall apart here.

And, George, you have to just look at the tone of the conflict (INAUDIBLE). This weekend marked potentially the most violent and bloody single air

attack that's ever happened in this civil war, 134 lives lost in three car bombs that simultaneously hit a shrine in Damascus.

Now we have to go from that to this weekend, nearly 210 dead in total in attacks by ISIS over that period of time, to a massive change five or six

days later, where we would potentially see most of the guns fall silent but the war against Nusra, Al Qaeda in Syria, and ISIS still continue. A lot

changing very fast there, massive mistrust, doubtless a lot of confusion when midnight strikes late on Friday.

And I should just mention to you here, we've just seen an urgent banner on Syrian state television, which suggests there could be parliamentary

elections in the middle of April this year, another potential spanner in the constant changing ground here.

But all people now hoping for this glimmer of hope to actually mean a change in violence potentially as the weekend begins. But so much

suspicion as to how really these groups, who have so -- such intense loathing, such intense long-lasting and loathing and mistrust of each other

can see things change so quickly -- George.

HOWELL: There is a great window there for violence to continue there, though the cessation of hostilities, the deal has been reached, is

effective but won't actually go into effect until midnight Friday.

Nick Paton Walsh --


HOWELL: -- reporting live for us in Beirut.

Nick, we appreciate your reporting.

This is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. Coming up, fearing for his life, the wife of captured Mexican drug lord, El Chapo Guzman, has spoken out, accusing the

government of compromising her husband's well-being. We'll have that story.




HOWELL: The wife of imprisoned drug cartel leader, Joaquin Guzman, "El Chapo," says she fears for her husband's life. It is the first time we're

hearing from Emma Coronel Aispuro.

In an interview with the network, Telemundo, the first time she spoke, the former beauty queen accuses the government of using harsh conditions to get

even after the drug lord's escapes.

For more on this story, let's bring in CNN's Rafael Romo.

And Rafael, so El Chapo has shown, time and time again, that he knows how to escape prisons and she is now saying they are trying to get even with


RAFAEL ROMO, CNN SR. LATIN AFFAIRS EDITOR: They're not only trying to get even but make it virtually impossible for him to live under those


And she says she's only been able to see El Chapo once since his capture in early January. And it was only for 15 minutes. Now she says she is afraid

that he is going to get seriously ill.


ROMO (voice-over): Emma Coronel Aispuro, speaking publicly for the first time about her husband, Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman, the reputed leader of

the Sinaloa drug cartel.

Asked if she's concerned about her husband's life in prison.

"Of course I fear for his life," she says, adding that her husband has developed high blood pressure behind bars. In an exclusive Telemundo

interview, the former beauty queen says, since Guzman's January capture she's been only allowed to see her husband once, for 15 minutes.


EMMA CORONEL AISPURO, WIFE OF EL CHAPO (through translator): What they're doing is very cruel. They are trying to make him pay for his escape. They

say that they are not punishing him. Of course they are.

They are there with him all day long, watching him in his cell. They are there all day long. They are doing roll call every hour. They don't let

him sleep. He doesn't even have privacy to go to the restroom.

ROMO (voice-over): The 26-year old told Telemundo she met her husband at a dance. She was 17. Guzman was nearly 50. She made headlines in 2007 when

Mexican media reported she married the drug lord on her 18th birthday.

AISPURO (through translator): Everything bad that happens anywhere in the world they blame El Chapo. And I think that it's very cruel that people

are now trying to kick him when he's down since they have no proof of anything that they are talking about.

ROMO (voice-over): Coronel also told Telemundo that she is not jealous of Kate del Castillo, even after reports that the Mexican actress was

exchanging romantic messages with El Chapo. Her relationship with her husband, she says, has not changed.

AISPURO (through translator): I'm in love with him. He's my daughters' father. And I believe that I have already shown that I will follow him


ROMO (voice-over): The couple has twin girls, born in California in 2011, children who hug the TV, Coronel says, each time their father's image comes




ROMO: And Emma Coronel's father is in jail because he is accused of drug trafficking. His brother, George, was accused of helping El Chapo build

the tunnel he used to escape back in July.

She was asked about those two cases and she says, both my father and my brother are innocent of those charges.

HOWELL: Wow. Rafael, thank you so much.

This is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. Coming up, as London's exuberant mayor calls for Britain to leave the European Union, we look at the impact the

country's famed press has had on shaping this debate.

And searching for answers: Michigan police are still trying to figure out what led one man to kill six people on Saturday. The very latest on that

investigation as THE WORLD RIGHT NOW continues.




HOWELL: British prime minister David Cameron has been laying out why he believes his country should stay in the E.U. He said concessions received

at last week's E.U. summit in Brussels would give Britain the best of both worlds and warned that leaving would put the country at risk.

Russia and the United States have announced a ceasefire, a cessation of hostilities in Syria, due to take effect at midnight on Friday. Russian

president Vladimir Putin says his government will do whatever is necessary to ensure that Damascus respects the deal. The agreement does not include

ISIS or Al-Nusra Front.

Just a short time ago, Syrian state media reported that President Bashar al-Assad is calling for parliamentary elections to be held on April 13the.

The U.S. Republican presidential field is getting smaller now that Jeb Bush has dropped out of the race for the White House. That happened Saturday

night moments after a disappointing finish in the state of South Carolina in primaries there.

A deal has been reached in India to end protests that have crippled part of the country's water supply. Millions of people are dealing with water

shortages there after protesters damaged a canal. And now those protesters say they have reached an agreement with the government. Sumnima Udas has

this report.


SUMNIMA UDAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A truckload of water is the hottest commodity in Delhi right now. People jostle for every drop.

UDALL: Residents in this neighborhood have received no water for the past two days, so this is what they've had to resort to, tankers like these,

hundreds of them, have been going from neighborhood to neighborhood.

UDAS (voice-over): Government officials say 10 million people have been affected by the water crisis, which they are calling unprecedented.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really, (INAUDIBLE) cannot survive.

UDAS (voice-over): She shows me how she's coping.

UDALL: Wow, you have filled up every single bucket in the house.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because it was not having a drop of water.

[15:30:00] UDAS (voice-over): The lives of many in this city of 25 million, disrupted because of week-long protests in a neighboring state of

Haryana. Agitators damaged a major water canal which accounts for 60% of the city's water supply.

This is one of the main highways connecting Delhi to the state of Hariana, and as you can see they've completely blocked off the entire area. They are

using these kind of pipes, tree trunks and trucks. Trucks have been lined up one after the other. So there's been absolutely no access on this road

for the past few days.

Long live (inaudible) unity they chant. The (inaudible) are a dominate cause in Hariana, traditionally well off. It's like a camping site. But

they're demanding a place, reservations in India's education and government jobs quota system which was designed to help lower (cause) that have been

disadvantaged for centuries.

The system is so unfair even if we study really hard and get much better grades than the lower (inaudible), they are the ones getting accepted to

the best Universities just because they're lower cause. We want it to be equal for all.

The government set up a committee to address their demands but these protesters say they don't believe it. They want it on paper. Until then,

they will continue to camp out. It is a pattern of resentment growing across India as jobs and admissions in universities become more

competitive. Within minutes, they ask us to leave. Many here are still very angry.

This (inaudible) based quota system just one of India's many fault lines which can erupt any time.

Sumnima Udas, CNN, New Delhi.


HOWELL: We now return to the issue of the "brexit." The debate over Britain's future in the European Union, it has taken British Politics by

storm after flamboyant mayor, Boris Johnson, came out against David Cameron's campaign for Britain to stay.

Kelly Morgan has more on this story on the man known simply as Boris.


BORIS JOHNSON, MAYOR OF LONDON: Thank you very, very much, and may the force be with you.


JOHNSON: A fine audience, I may stay so stunning audience for Europe.

MORGAN: And bike riding. Prone to bumbling.

JOHNSON: I can't remember whether they were there, but it was that kind of thing.

MORGAN: And bravado.

JOHNSON: Ecstatic success of the Olympic and Paralympic games of 2012.

MORGAN: It can only be one man, Boris. He has a last name, Johnson, but no one in the U.K. really uses it. He enjoys something close to celebrity


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm from Iraq and I'm one of your supporters.

JOHNSON: Thank you so much.

MORGAN: The London mayor has his own special flare which he has been grooming since his (inaudible) and Oxford school days. His critics call him

elitist but he is not adverse to getting down and dirty. There is little doubt though he's a divisive character.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He sort of gets people sort of riled up.

MORGAN: Johnson began his career as a journalist first writing for "The Times" and then as the Brussels correspondent for "The Telegraph" and

finally as editor of "The Spectator." Now he graces their front pages having re-affirmed the Euro skeptic views for a which he has long caused


JOHNSON: I will be advocating vote leave or whatever the team is called.

MORGAN: To go against the stance of British Prime Minister, David Cameron on the E.U. referendum is seen as a gamble particularly given his political

ambitions. Born in New York, the mayor has joked he could be President of the United States. But it's the leadership much closer to home, he is

really looking to score.

Kelly Morgan, CNN, London.


HOWELL: Boris Johnson's decision dominated British newspaper headlines today.


HOWELL: The country's "Daily Telegraph" had this image here, Johnson waving in front of the Union Jack.. The main text says "Boris, why Britain should

say no to E.U."

Not to be outdone, the country's tabloid press also had a field day. Here's today's "Sun," featuring the headline, "Blond bombshell," a nod there to

Johnson's trademark hair style. You've got to love the hair there.


HOWELL: For more on this I'm joined now in London by two guests. Paul Waugh is the Executive Editor for politics at "The Huffington Post U.K." And

Douglas Murray, is an Associate Editor with "The Spectator." Gentlemen, it's good to have you with us.

So look, Britain is famous for its journalism around the world both in terms of serious news and for its rather infamous tabloids. In a debate

like this, the U.K's future in Europe, how significant and influence would these publications have? Paul, let's start with you.


PAUL WAUGH, EXECUTIVE EDITOR FOR POLITICS, THE HUFFINGTON POST U.K.: Well I think actually that when it comes to Britain's press, you're right, we read

more newspapers than any other country in the world. We're obsessive newspaper readers. You will see people on the tube reading the free

newspaper, you'll see people buying one every day and obviously online people read newspapers like "The Huffington Post."

So there's a great thirst for journalism in Britain. And I have to say that the British press reflect the sort of debate that's going on within Britain

right now, which is all about Europe, do we want to stay or do we want to go? And many of the newspapers you were seeing just there, are very much in

favor of Britain pulling out of the European Union.


WAUGH: For years they reflect this debate in the conservative party that actually Britain would be better off out because we are sick of going down

a route towards an ever federal and more closer union within Europe. The fact that maybe Europe wants to be a United States of Europe, like the

United States of America, and a lot of people in Britain don't like that. However, when it comes, push comes to shove, number 10 Downing Street I'm

sure a lot of the newspapers including the tabloids may well back off that final decision of pulling out. In other words they will flirt with the idea

of "brexit," they like the idea of keeping pressure on Brussels but when push comes to shove maybe we are better off?

HOWELL: So Douglas, you just heard Paul, the papers, the tabloids they're all pushing this idea of getting out. What do you think? Do you think it

will have a major influence?


DOUGLAS MURRAY, ASSOCIATE EDITOR, THE SPECTATOR: Well, I mean much like American politics we are used to in Britain very big issues about our

nation's future being reduced to rivalries, individual dynasties and so on. And that's what is happening in the last 48 hours with the so-called

"brexit" campaign.

It's true what Paul says to a certain extent. I mean a lot of the media here are very skeptical about the E.U. and always have been. That's

because so many of their readers are very skeptical about the E.U. and always have been. But the important thing in a way is not to overstate the

role of the media in this.


MURRAY: Because the "in" campaign, the campaign to keep Britain within the E.U., which the Prime Minister is obviously part of and almost the entire

labor party, the opposition among others are part of, is in most ways the one that is currently going to outgun the "out" campaign.

And I say that because there is a massive campaign already underway from the city, from the financial services, from a whole establishment to

terrify the British people in to voting to stay in the European Union, terrifying them into thinking that if they leave all four horsemen of the

apocalypse will immediately descend on the U.K.


MURRAY: So the British Press is to a great extent just speaking back to that great project fear.

HOWELL: Douglas, I want to push further on that. You know "The Daily Express," that is a paper that's had a firm position on Europe for many



HOWELL: They've been running what they call a crusade to get out of Europe. Do you expect other newspapers to in effect take a side on this issue? And

where are they likely to come down?

MURRAY: Well, "The Express" it's not surprising it's running a sort of a crusade, it has always had at the top right-hand corner of the front page a

crusader on it. So that's the sort of thing "The Daily Express" would do.


MURRAY: I'd expect, as Paul says, that a lot of them will flirt effectively with exit until the last minute. There will be some who will urge their

readers to vote to get out of the European Union. Others will I suspect by that point after a pretty bruising campaign take a sort of moderate middle

ground and they will say that it would be the moderate middle ground choice to remain in the E.U.

But that itself is not a certainty because although David Cameron and the project fear and the remain lobby are trying to persuade the British people

that exit from the European Union would be a leap into the dark and into the unknown.


MURRAY: Actually remaining in the E.U. at this stage, after seeing all of the recent crashes that the E.U. has gone through may itself be deemed by

the British people to be a far greater leap in the dark. In other words, that remain may be more dangerous for us than exit.

HOWELL: Interesting. Paul I want to pose this question to you given that you are with the "Huffington Post U.K." You know has the power to form

opinion, has it moved away from traditional newspapers in recent years?


HOWELL: Has it moved more toward online discourse? Or does that now play out in social media? What do you think?

WAUGH: Well, newspapers have caught up. They used to be dinosaurs when it came to new media and online. Lots of British newspapers have rapidly

learned that they've got to be on Facebook, they've got to be on twitter. I was one of the first journalists in the House of Commons to lobby to be

on twitter and at the time people said what on earth are you doing that for? That was back in 2009, now everybody's on it.

The big difference here is this is not just a story about politics or economics. It does involve personalities. It does involve trusting people

you know to be on the same side. That's why Boris matters in this race. You opened the segment with Boris, he called the politician the kind of

Heineken politician here, he refreshes the parts that other politicians can't reach in Britain.



WAUGH: He's got a popular appeal in the street with plumbers, with plasterers, with van drivers unlike many politicians here and that's why

David Cameron was so worried about him making that decision last night.

And so it's not just the newspapers and the media, it's people like Boris who could help sway this debate. There was one poll last week that showed

Boris could add 15 points to the out campaign. That's some market mover.


HOWELL: Paul Waugh, and Douglas Murray, we appreciate your insight on this issue, thank you both.

An Uber driver in the United States has been charged with six murders after a shooting rampage that baffled a Michigan community.


HOWELL: Jason Dalton appeared in court last hour. He is also facing assault and firearms charges. Dalton drove for the ride service Uber and according

to one source, he continued picking up passengers between shootings. No motive has yet emerged in this situation in the seven-hour killing spree.

One passenger describes how he had to escape the vehicle when Dalton began driving recklessly. Listen.

MATT MELLEN, UBER PASSENGER: We got maybe a mile from my house he got a telephone call. After that telephone call he started driving really

erratically. We were kind of driving through medians, driving through the lawn, speeding along and then finally once he came to a stop I jumped out

of the car and ran away. He didn't seem like the type - I mean our interaction with him was very basic, because it was like a five minute

ride. And I said you're not the shooter, are you? And he said no. And I said, are you sure? And he kind of just said, no I'm just tired. I've been

driving for seven hours.

HOWELL: Goodness. Mourners gathered in Kalamazoo on Sunday night to pray for the victims.


HOWELL: Let's go live to Kalamazoo, Michigan. CNN's Ryan Young is live there. Ryan, the suspect was just recently in court, what's the latest


RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He was in court, George, to face the 16 charges he is now facing.


YOUNG: And the judge actually asked him do you have anything to say to the community? And he looked at the camera and basically said no, I'll remain

silent at this time. Of course we've been waiting all day for these developments as this entire city tries to figure out exactly what happened.

When you think about this; six people dead in this community, eight shot. This is a man who was a father of two, who had no criminal history, who was

working for Uber. Neighbors describe him as an insurance salesman who used to work in his yard on his cars. But we know around 6:00 o'clock, Saturday

he started shooting according to police. And he shot the first woman in front of her kids as they were walking back from the playground. Then he

moved on to another site about four hours later where he shot a father and son at car dealership. We've also learned after killing those two

apparently the son's girlfriend was there, she dove into a car to avoid being shot. Then 15 minutes later he went to a parking lot of a Cracker

Barrel, which is a restaurant here, opened fire there, killing four women all above the age of 60 and also shooting a 14-year-old girl who originally

they thought was dead. We now know she survived and is in critical condition, she's clinging to life.

But all these questions here because everybody wants to know what the motive could be for this crime. No answers coming just yet. Not easy for

anyone suffering through this. Someone who was a part of this community for such a long time, all of a sudden apparently snapped. People want to know

what is the motive, George.


HOWELL: You say shot a woman in front of her kids. So many shooting, all seemingly at random. And no motive at this point. CNN's Ryan Young live for

us in Michigan. Ryan thank you for your reporting.

This is "The World Right Now." Still ahead, U.S. Presidential candidates are counting on voters.


HOWELL: And they're are also counting on delegates to win their respective party nominations. We will explain what that takes as the news continues.




HOWELL: In U.S. politics, despite Saturday's win by Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, we won't know for months now who will be the presidential

nominees for the Democrats or Republicans. How they are chosen is a bit complicated, but we want to show you how it works here.


HOWELL: Delegates from each party will cast the deciding votes at separate conventions being held this summer. The delegates are either pledged or

unpledged. Most delegates are pledged meaning they were allocated to a candidate based on primary or caucus results. But those rules vary from

state to state.

Candidates need a majority of delegates to win in -- win the nomination. Here's how things stand now. You see here Donald Trump, he is well out in

front of the Republicans with 67 delegates. But there is a long way to go and it takes more than 1200 delegates to be the GOP nominee.

Hillary Clinton is also out ahead with almost 500 total delegates for the Democrats. And it takes more than 2300 delegates to clinch her party's

nomination. To help us get a better picture of this process, let's bring in CNN political commentator, Maria Cardona live in Washington.


HOWELL: Maria, before we talk about the delegate situation I want to ask you about the new flap between the Rubio and Cruz campaigns where now Ted

Cruz has asked his communications director to resign.


MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, you know, I think this is indicative of the rough-and-tumble that has become this year's campaign

season. And this is actually not a very positive development for Ted Cruz because as you may know, this is not the first time his campaign is being

accused of dirty tricks.

What they're saying happened here is that his communications director put forth a blog post that indicated that Marco Rubio said something about the

bible to a Cruz staffer that he actually didn't say. And so, you know, once again, we have Ted Cruz having to apologize. Let's remember that he has

already had to apologize to Ben Carson for supposedly misleading voters in Iowa, indicating that Ben Carson was out of the race. And so Iowa voters

should vote for Ted Cruz.

And so I think it really undercuts one of the big messages of Ted Cruz's campaign. Let's remember, his (moniker) is trusted. Right? And so dirty

trick after dirty trick after dirty trick, that's going to be something that voters are going to say well actually I don't think we can trust him.

So they're going to have to get their act together if they're going to convince voters that he's the one that they should put their trust?

HOWELL: And Rubio really digging in on that, going directly against the brand there that Ted Cruz stands behind. Very quickly Maria I want to ask

you, for Democrats, the issue of super delegates, how that comes into play. And also, with Republicans, with Donald Trump so far ahead, can others

catch up to him in the delegate count?

CARDONA: Sure. Absolutely. Let's start with super delegates first. So super delegates are this sort of brand of delegates that are not pledged. And

what that means is that these delegates can go to the convention and frankly at any point commit to any candidate.


CARDONA: They are made up of current elected officials, so every senator, every member of congress, sitting governors, past Presidents, past vice

presidents, and the 400-plus members of the Democratic National Committee. In full disclosure, I am a super delegate. And so what it means is that the

candidates need to talk to these super delegates, lobby these super delegates the try to get them to commit to them as early as possible. That

doesn't mean that even though a super delegate commits to a candidate that they can't change their mine. They can change at any point at any time.



CARDONA: For the Republican side they need less delegates to get to the nomination than Democrats do. They don't have this idea of super delegates.

But at the end of the day, what is important for both primary processes is for people to understand that after the four contests that we are seeing

wrap up now with South Carolina for the democrats next Saturday, you will only have been going through the process and gathering four percent of the

delegates needed on either side in order to get the nomination. So this is really just the beginning. And literally anything can happen. It is not too

laid for either side of the campaign process to flip itself.


CARDONA: So while I believe at the end of the day that Trump will probably be the nominee on the Republican he's got the momentum, he's ahead in the

delegate count, it's still very early and anything can happen. And on the Democratic side, I am a Hillary Clinton supporter and I think at the end of

the day she will also become the nominee. But, again, what is so incredible about politics is that anything can happen. And it's really up to the

voters to decide.

HOWELL: OK. So you have these two seemingly anti-establishment candidates who are really running tight races with the - you know, their opponents.

And as they rack up the delegate count and it gets down to the convention, explain to our viewers the concept of what could become a brokered


CARDONA: So the concept of a brokered convention, which is something that the media loves to talk about, because of what it means in terms of

storylines, right? It means that no one gets -- no one candidate gets to the convention with enough delegates to be able to claim the nomination.

And what that means is that the other candidates will get to the convention with an amount of delegates that they have. And then you start sort the

brokering, the negotiating process. And you know, that rarely happens. Though it is always talked about. This time around, it is mostly talked

about on the Republican side, specifically because Donald Trump, who now is the one that does seem to have the momentum and who has now seemingly the

best chance out of any of the other candidates to cinch the nomination, there is a lot of talk about a brokered convention because we know well

that the Republican establishment does not want Donald Trump to get the nomination.


CARDONA: So it's going to be very interesting moving down the process with the upcoming primaries, the upcoming caucuses. It's going to be a long,

long process. But this is what keeps you and I in business, right.


HOWELL: It is a complicated equation. Maria Cardona thank you so much for helping to break it down for us.

CARDONA: Thank you for having me.

HOWELL: Thank you very much. This is "The World Right Now." we'll be right back after the break.



HOWELL: An unusual kind of doll has reached cult-like status in Thailand. Many people there eat, sleep, and even go to work with their child angel

dolls, believing that they will bring wealth and good fortune.

Saima Mohsin, reports from Bangkok.


SAIMA MOHSIN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Consecrated, cute capitalist gimmick, or just plain creepy? Dr. Mack, who is not a doctor, transforms

thousands of dolls into child angels. He says he was walking past a doll in a shop window when it spoke to him, saying - "please don't leave me behind,

take me with you, daddy, I want to stay with you." They are blessed by a monk and given a birth date by Dr. Mack when they fine a parent like T.V

star "Buckku."


MOHSIN: (Buckku), I'm Saima, thanks very much for inviting us and is this (inaudible)?

(BUCKKU): Yes, meaning it's a good day my son.

MOHSIN: (Buckku's) doll or son was picked specially as he feels it looks just like him, one of the family.

(BOCKKU): (As translated): he is with me 24 hours a day or sometimes he stays home with my mom and my sister. My mom really likes taking care of

him. Everyone thinks (inaudible) is a member of our family.

MOHSIN: So would you eat with (inaudible)?

(BOCKKU): (As translated) He just sits beside me on my table. I just ask for an extra plate for him and put rice on it. I don't go over the top. I

just treat him like normal.

MOHSIN: They sleep together, too. (Buckku) was filming a T.V. commercial but a social media backlash against the (inaudible) or child angel dolls

made him reluctant to take (inaudible) out on set.

Critic and writer, (inaudible) wrote on Facebook about the craze saying "it reflects on our level of intelligence and you can't bring your personal

world out the violate public spaces and not expect reaction."

Some restaurants and hotels have barred the dolls for fear of frightening customers.

But we found people keen to take photos with and meet the pair. And in no time, (inaudible), was in the ad too.

The dolls feel real. It's heavy like a baby. And because everyone else treated it like a child, well, I did, too.

MOHSIN: Looks like I'm babysitting. Next up, Buckku's T.V. gossip show and CNN's presence brought (inaudible) back into the limelight, a chance for

Buckku to address the backlash so (inaudible) isn't always left sitting on the sidelines. A backlash though that's already seeing people abandon the

dolls, take them to a new home, this temple, a kind of child angel doll orphanage.

Saima Mohsin, CNN, Bangkok, Thailand.


HOWELL: Very piercing gazes though on those dolls. Look, we thank you for watching, this has been "The World Right Now" "Quest Means Business" is