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Breaking News: Hillary Clinton Wins In Iowa; Interview with Sanders Campaign Manager; Hillary Clinton Wins Iowa Caucuses; Wolf Talks To Hillary Clinton And Sanders' Campaign Next. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired February 02, 2016 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm wolf Blitzer in Washington. We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world.

We have breaking news right now. A CNN key race alert. CNN can now report that Hillary Clinton has won. Hillary Clinton has won the Democratic caucuses in Iowa narrowly, very narrowly, defeating Bernie Sanders. Bernie Sanders comes in second place. An extremely close race.

I want to bring in Jeff Zeleny, who's our correspondent. He's covering this. You see what the results there are. These are the results now by the Iowa -- by the Iowa Democrats. Hillary Clinton with 49.8 percent. Bernie Sanders 49.6 percent. Martin O'Malley who has now suspended his campaign. He is no longer in this race. The Iowa Democratic Party releasing the final results and CNN can now report that Hillary Clinton has won the Iowa Democratic caucuses, just barely edging off Bernie Sanders.

Jeff Zeleny, not a huge surprise because these numbers were indicating things were moving in that direction. But the Bernie Sanders campaign were raising some questions. There hadn't been an official announcement by the Democratic Party in Iowa. Now, there is an official announcement.

Let me be precise. The Iowa Democrats, Jeff, say Hillary received 700.59 state delegate equivalence. Those are the representative who will go the Iowa Democratic convention. Bernie Sanders 696.82 state delegate equivalence. They don't release actual numbers unlike the Repubicans, o the Democratic side. But it's official now. Hillary Clinton can properly declare she won the Iowa caucuses.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf, she can. And even before it became official by the party, she, in fact, did declare a victory. I'm here in Nashua, New Hampshire, where she just wrapped up a campaign rally just a few minutes ago. And she said, I know what it's like to lose in Iowa, of course referring to eight years ago. And I know what it's like to win and winning feels better.

So, regardless of the fact that it was essentially a split decision, in terms of delegates. They both walk away with about the same. She has a few more delegates. She is complaining a victory. But Bernie Sanders, of course, is claiming a different kind of victory. He's claiming moral victory, and ideological victory. He said that the -- his call for change is call for a revolution. A new movement was also embraced by Iowans.

So, Wolf, we're definitely going to hear the Clinton campaign doubling down on saying that they, you know, were trying to shake the Iowa monkey off her back, if you will. Throughout the course of her presidential campaign, over the last almost a year, the question has been would she be able to win in Iowa? Of course, she got third place eight years ago, but now she can officially say that she won Iowa. But boy, Wolf, it is closer than anyone ever expected. And it signifies one thing. This is going to be a fight for delegates. This is going to be a state by state by state fight for delegates. And in that equation, they're essentially even.

Remember, back in the 2008 campaign with Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, it became a delegate fight. That's why it went on all the way into June. Of course, we don't know now if it will go that long. But last night, when Bernie Sanders was flying from Iowa here to New Hampshire, I was on the plane with him, I asked him how long he thinks this race will go. He said, we're going to fight until the convention.

And, Wolf, Senator Sanders also said something else. He said he believes the Iowa Democratic Party should release raw vote totals. They should release a popular vote so he could see how many people actually supported him. And many Democratic officials believe that he would actually win that.

But, of course, those are not the rules of the Iowa caucuses. That's why the caucuses are different than the New Hampshire primary here. So, I do not believe they will do that. They never have in the past.

But Senator Sanders, I'm told, is not going to spend too much time contesting this. His office is -- advisors are looking into some potential discrepancies in some precincts around the state of Iowa, particularly in Polk County in Des Moines. But I am told that they are not going to dwell on this. He wants to go forward with his message.

And, Wolf, a narrow defeat to her in Iowa still means one good thing for him, that's fundraising. On-line fundraising, I'm told, is already doing very well overnight. Of course, he raised $20 million in January alone online, so they expect to raise much more money because of this Iowa thing.

But, just so far, Hillary Clinton has declared victory, and now we can say it's official here on CNN -- Wolf.

BLITZER: It is official, according to the Democrats. They have released the total number of Democratic caucus goers, more than 170,000. But they don't break down the --

ZELENY: Right.

BLITZER: -- as you correctly point out, like the Republicans --

ZELENY: Right.

BLITZER: -- do. They're not going to say exactly which precincts -- which caucus sites how the vote came down. They say more than 170,000 Iowa Democrats participated in the Iowa caucuses. But they're not breaking down the number. A razor-thin win.

[13:05:00] Once again, 700.59 state delegate equivalents, that's what they are officially called, for Hillary Clinton, 696.82 for Bernie Sanders.

Stand by for a moment. I want to bring in our CNN Political Commentator and Republican Strategist Kevin Madden and our CNN Political Commentator and Democratic Strategist Paul Begala. Paul, you worked for a Super Pac that supports --

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right.

BLITZER: -- Hillary Clinton. It's good news. I think it's fair to say, good news for both of these candidates.

BEGALA: Yes, but it's better news for Hillary. It's better to win narrowly than to lose narrowly. Bernie has run a great campaign. He'll continue to. He energizes especially young people. This is something I think that's going to be a challenge for Hillary to contest them. But she won. And no woman has ever won the Iowa caucuses and she has. And she's to be congratulated.

She's my friend, OK? I'm happy. And, you know, I think it was Mahatma Gandhi who said a win is a win is a win, baby. So, take that win, Hillary.

KEVIN MADDEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't think it was Gandhi.

BEGALA: You don't think that was Gandhi. I think it was some great philosopher.

BLITZER: But --

MADDEN: I think it was Al Davis. The great philosopher, Al Davis.

BLITZER: She can say adequately, she can say appropriately, she did win the Iowa caucuses.

MADDEN: She did. But she's a lot like a heavy -- a heavy weight boxer been who's been staggered by a smaller -- like a bantam weight. She went in there with a 50-point lead and barely came out with a -- with a win.

But I think now, her campaign has to go into this mode where they want to survive and advance. If you look at Iowa and New Hampshire, they're particularly well suited for Bernie Sanders.

BEGALA: Right. MADDEN: As this race begins to turn down to South Carolina, it goes back to the advantage for Clinton. And then, she can start to get a little bit more of a momentum and start to put Bernie Sanders further and further in the rearview mirror.

BLITZER: Do you know why the Iowa caucuses, and I've been covering them for a long time, they won't release the hard numbers, like the Republicans do. Because they say in this Democratic Party statement, the chairman, Dr. Andy McGuire's statement on the caucuses, that saw turnout of more than 170,000 Iowa. That's a huge number.

BEGALA: Right.

BLITZER: Not as big as 2008 but still a very impressive number. Why won't they break that down so the people know how many votes Hillary Clinton won by?

BEGALA: I don't know but that's the rules the candidates agreed to when they entered it. I suspect it has something to do with the rivalry with New Hampshire which has a primary which counts the people's votes rather than a caucus.

But I noticed last night in our -- in our coverage, Tom Foreman was in Coralville which is in Johnson County. The people's Republican council. The most liberal county in Iowa. Hillary won that caucus by 10 percent. But they each got the same number of delegates. So, it's not at all a foregone conclusion that Bernie won more regular votes. But you just have to abide by the rules as they are. And the Iowa system, it makes you go to the grassroots and that's a very good thing. There are some wrinkles that maybe they should take a look at.

BLITZER: Who do the Republicans fear most in a head-to-head general election contest, Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders?

MADDEN: I don't think fear is the right word. I think we see both of these candidates as particularly flawed. But I would have to say that Bernie Sanders is very far outside of the mainstream of most Americans political thinking.

The old Hillary Clinton, who is a centrist, I think, would be a much more formidable candidate. I expect that would be the one that we may get after you see this new progressive warrior who's trying to be the liberal champion for the Democratic Party, now in the primary process.

But let it -- you know, let me be clear. I mean, both of them are particularly flawed candidates in a general election.

BLITZER: Go ahead.

BEGALA: Well, in Kevin's -- we're not going to get Kevin's votes, OK? But the truth is, look, Hillary Clinton can be my party's nominee. I'm impressed with Bernie Sanders. I'm proud of him. I'm impressed by the campaign that he's running. He's not going to win the Democratic nomination.

Kevin pointed out, he couldn't -- he tied, almost. He narrowly lost. He couldn't even win Iowa. He's going to win New Hampshire in a landslide because it's his neighboring state and it's very liberal.

But last night, for example, in Iowa, you had almost 70 percent of caucus attendees in my party describing themselves as very liberal or somewhat liberal. Once you get out to the other states, it's about 49.

So, if he couldn't win in the most white and the most liberal place in my party -- that's his base is white liberals. Hillary's base is much more with people of color. It's a much more diverse coalition which makes sense because she was a senator from New York. New York is not -

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: He's way ahead in New Hampshire, too.

BEGALA: He'll crush her in New Hampshire.

MADDEN: Yes.

BLITZER: Crush?

BEGALA: Oh, sure. He was up by 23 points in the last poll we saw.

By the way, though, Hillary is a good closer. She was trailing by eight points eight days out in the last CNN poll in Iowa.

MADDEN: Yes.

BEGALA: Eight points down and she came back and won by the narrowest amount. And so, you've got to give her a little credit for being able to come back on her own (ph).

MADDEN: Just real quickly, to Paul's point. I mean, the Bernie Sanders' folks are not deflated after this. They are, if anything, more energized in New Hampshire. And New Hampshire has a tradition of wanting to send the message or offer a counter-balance to what just took place in Iowa. So, I'd expect that you're going to see a surge of support again for Sanders in New Hampshire.

BLITZER: I want to bring in David Chalian, our CNN Political Director. David, all right, so walk us through precisely what happened over these past several hours last night. We were on the air for a long time. We got off the air at 2:00 a.m. Eastern. We could not project a winner but now it's official. The Democrats in Iowa, they have said Hillary Clinton very, very narrowly, razor-thin margin, she is the winner of the Iowa caucuses. Walk us through the final hours how this materialized.

[13:10:01] DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, that's right, Wolf. And we're not, as you know, making a projection on this right now. This is not based on sort of our decision desk analysis of the entrance poll and some of the vote came in. We are reporting out what the governing authority, the Iowa Democratic Party who runs these caucuses, what they are reporting now. They have collected every last vote from all the precinct caucuses across the state of Iowa last night. They have just released their final tally. They're the governing authority on this.

And in that final tally, as you said, Secretary Clinton edges just ahead of Bernie Sanders. We're talking about four state delegate equivalents. You see a point two tenths of a percentage point there. Two-tenths of a percentage point there. So, a razor-thin margin. But now that the Iowa Democratic Party, who runs these caucuses, has issued their final tally, Hillary Clinton, we can report, has won the Iowa caucuses.

We do know that since last night, as it was hanging in the balance, as Jeff Zeleny reported and others, that the Sanders campaign wanted to take a look. We've reported that they said they want to take a look at some raw tally sheets. They're going to be in conversations, perhaps, with the Democratic Party of Iowa now. But that does not stop the Iowa Democratic Party from releasing this final tally.

So, whatever the Sanders campaign chooses to do going forward with the Iowa Democratic Party, that will be a process subsequent to their reporting out Hillary Clinton as the top vote getter last night.

BLITZER: And, David, you know I'm going to be interviewing, live here later this hour, Hillary Clinton, the winner of the Iowa caucuses. We'll get her reaction to this official statement from the Iowa Democrats.

I'm also going to be speaking with Jeff Weaver. He's the campaign manager for the Bernie Sanders campaign. We're going to get his reaction as well and see if they're going to challenge the results of what the Democrats in Iowa are now saying.

Because you remember, all of us remember, Kevin Madden remembers this very well, four years ago, they, originally, the Republicans, said that Mitt Romney won the Iowa caucuses. And then, three weeks later, they recounted and they discovered they had made a mistake. It was Rick Santorum that won.

Here's the question to you, David. Do you think the Sanders campaign is on strong grounds right now to seek some sort of recount?

CHALIAN: I think the Sanders campaign is going to have to figure out exactly what they want to ask the party for. I don't think that there's going to be some state-wide recanvassing of every single precinct. So, I think now the Sanders campaign, and they've indicated they're looking into this, will have to make a very specific request to the Iowa Democratic Party of what they are looking to see to make sure that they're comfortable with the final tally reported by the party.

Again, the party is the governing authority here. So, I don't think we are going to be in the situation like Florida 2000 in seeing a huge state-wide recount. I think we have to wait to see how the Sanders campaign responds to this news and then we'll understand the next steps for the Iowa Democratic Party.

BLITZER: All right. And I'll be speaking with Jeff Weaver, the campaign manager for the Sanders' campaign. We'll get his reaction. Also -- David, thanks very much. I'll speak live with Hillary Clinton later this hour as well. We'll get her reaction to all this news and the look ahead one week from today at New Hampshire.

We'll take a quick break. Much more right after this.

[13:13:22]

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[13:17:10] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BLITZER: And the breaking news, Hillary Clinton is the winner in Iowa. This according to the Iowa Democratic Party. They have issued a statement making it official. Hillary Clinton has won the Iowa Democratic caucuses.

But the Vermont senator, Bernie Sanders, he still has plenty of momentum heading into New Hampshire. He came in second. Razor-thin margin.

Joe Johns is in Keen, New Hampshire. He's covering the Sanders campaign for us. They're going to be holding an event, I'm told, Joe, later.

First of all, any official reaction or even unofficial reaction from the Sanders campaign to the announcement from the Iowa Democratic Party that Hillary Clinton narrowly beat Sanders and is the winner of the Iowa caucuses?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: No official reaction. I have talked to a campaign aide who did point out the closeness of this race and an indication to me that they're still trying to get their words together, if you will. Also, pointing out in earlier conversations that while this campaign is asking to see paperwork about what happened in Iowa, they're not using the word "challenging the result" in Iowa.

So the other indication I'm getting from the Sanders campaign is that right now they have made the pivot hard and fast to here in New Hampshire. And you can see this evidence of it right behind me at the Colonial Theater in Keen, New Hampshire, where a large, energetic crowd is already gathering to go in and hear the words of Bernie Sanders. That event is still scheduled for a couple hours away at 3:00 Eastern Time.

So no official reaction as yet, but they're pointing out they are not challenging the result in Iowa, mainly just trying to look at the paperwork at this stage. And the pivot has been made to this state where Bernie Sanders is expected to do very well, Wolf, because, as you know, Vermont, his home state, is so close to New Hampshire.

Back to you.

BLITZER: So it's clearer still, at least as of this moment, despite Hillary Clinton hours ago declaring victory in Iowa, now the Iowa Democrats, they've officially declared her the winner. Bernie Sanders and his campaign, they have not yet conceded defeat, right?

JOHNS: Right. Right, they have -- they have not. And I think the point was also made to me on the phone just a little while ago that while she can crow about, you know, just a very couple hundred percent of a point or whatever, that doesn't necessarily mean it's a moral victory by any stretch of the imagination. The fact of the matter is, it is an extremely close race. A virtual tie, if you will, even though Hillary Clinton comes out just a couple of ticks ahead, Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, two-tenths of one percent. Very close. It doesn't get a whole lot closer than that.

[13:20:03] Stand by. I've got on the phone now Jeff Weaver. He's the campaign manager for the Bernie Sanders campaign.

Jeff, can you hear me OK.

JEFF WEAVER, SANDERS CAMPAIGN MANAGER (via telephone): Sure can, Wolf. How are you?

BLITZER: All right, thanks very much.

You saw the statement put out by the Iowa Democratic Party that Hillary Clinton is the winner. She received 700.59 so-called state delegates equivalents, Bernie Sanders received 696.82 state delegate equivalents. Your reaction?

WEAVER: Well, Wolf, you know, when we started this campaign, we were at 5 percent and Secretary Clinton, in many polls, was as high as 67 percent. And, you know, at the end of the day we ended up 50-50. We went toe to toe with the establishment and I think what we demonstrated to people across this country is that the Sanders campaign and Senator Sanders' message is -- can galvanizes people, as it did in Iowa, that the large crowds that we had there can -- will translate into people actually coming out to caucus or vote. And so we're extremely gratified.

I mean, look, at the end of the -- at the end of the day here, where we are now, although we'd have to see some tally sheets. There's a storm out there, so it's slowing things down a little bit. But we'd love to see some tally sheets. And, you know, it's looking at a handful -- I mean literally in single digits, of state delegates out of 1,400, which is a fraction of a fraction of 1 percent.

And the truth of the matter, Wolf, is, it's a little bit of an academic exercise because, you know, given the large number of precincts, over 1,600, the capacity for human error, the use of new technology that was introduced in this -- in this caucus, the fact is that as an imperial matter, we're really never going to know, even if we do everything, who really should have had more delegate on that night. But -- but -- and, you know, there were a number of these that were -- were decided by a coin toss. So it may in fact be that the margin was a result of coin tosses in a number of precincts.

But that -- all that being said, look, this was -- we're looking forward, not backwards. We're here in New Hampshire. Senator Sanders had a rally last night here in New Hampshire with 300 people on the back of a pickup truck. It was phenomenal. The enthusiasm for him here in New Hampshire is overwhelming. And we're going to go on to win next Tuesday.

BLITZER: All right, so just to be precise, are you conceding defeat?

WEAVER: No, we're not. No, no, we've got to see some data. Look, we've like to get -- look, we're not contesting the election. What we would like to do is we would like to know the truth on the ground. I think that the tens and tens and tens of thousands of people who supported Senator Sanders just, you know, they like to understand, you know, what exactly went on and, you know, I think it will actually be good for the party as well to understand, you know, what can be improved next time around.

BLITZER: But do you suspect there may have been any irregularities?

WEAVER: Well, look, Wolf, when you have a -- when you have a system as complicated as that with over 1,600 precincts and you have a margin that, according to the Iowa Democratic Party, is the close in the history of the caucuses in Iowa, you know, four or five state delegates out of 1,400 and you're talking about a fraction -- a fraction of 1 percent. You know, as you know, I mean (INAUDIBLE) for Florida, it's very, very difficult when the margins get that thin to really, you know, ascertain who came out on top and who didn't.

And -- but the truth of the matter is, in many ways it's an academic argument, you know, between you and me and a bunch of other people who are so into politics because, look, the truth of the matter is it ended up being a tie and it doesn't matter for -- as far as delegates go. There is a -- people may not know, but there's a process in Iowa now, a multi-layered process, that goes all the way to June, which -- which we'll be competing, and so the file number of delegates actually in Iowa won't really be determined until then. And we're going to win then.

BLITZER: What frustrates me, Jeff, is that the Iowa Democratic Party said more than 170,000 Democrats showed up -- that's a big number -- showed up at the various caucus sites around the state but they won't release the actual numbers. They won't break that down. Does that frustrate you as well?

WEAVER: Well, I mean, I -- you know, anecdotally I think (INAUDIBLE) we certainly won the popular vote in Iowa yesterday. Clearly more people came out to caucus for Senator Sanders than they did for Secretary Clinton. Now, as you know, it's a very complicated nuances process. And as I said, you know, there's room for human error and there's new technology that was just introduced into the process which, you know, people had some concerns about. So I mean I think it would be nice. I think America -- people in America would love to know what the sort of raw numbers were in terms of who came out and supported which candidate. I think that would be of interest to a lot of your viewers and to -- to Americans.

BLITZER: I know Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton will both be at the CNN town hall tomorrow night in New Hampshire that Anderson Cooper will be moderating. They'll be taking questions from voters in New Hampshire. What about Thursday night, that debate? Is that happening or not happening?

WEAVER: Well, Wolf, we're down to one final sticking point. And I have to tell you, it's -- it's -- talking about frustrating. I really don't understand why the Clinton campaign refuses to agree to have a debate in New York City, a city that she represented as a United States senator. I don't understand why they don't think the people of New York deserve to have a, you know, a debate in the -- in their city.

[13:25:07] So I mean no one's explained to me why this is a bad idea. I mean, you know, New York was a critical state for Democrats. That's going to be a hotly contested primary in New York state. We intend to -- to contest it vigorously. But why the Clinton campaign seems unwilling to debate in New York City remains a mystery to me. It would be great if they could explain it. Maybe -- I know watching your news this morning, I see Jeff Zeleny's out stomping (ph) with the Clinton people. Maybe he can look into it.

BLITZER: Well, I'm going to be speaking later this hour with Hillary Clinton. I'll ask her what's going on with the debate and we'll get back to you on that. Keep watching CNN, Jeff, and you'll get an answer directly from Hillary Clinton.

Jeff Weaver is the campaign manager from the Bernie Sanders presidential campaign.

Jeff, thanks very much for joining us.

WEAVER: Thank you, Wolf. Always a pleasure.

BLITZER: All right, thank you.

And let's take a quick break. We're standing by to speak live with Hillary Clinton. She's the winner, barely, but she is the winner of the Iowa caucuses.

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