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Iowa Caucuses Results Examined; Zika Virus Source Sought; UK and EU Membership. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired February 2, 2016 - 15:00:00   ET




HALA GORANI, "THE WORLD RIGHT NOW" HOST: Tonight its Hillary Clinton by a nose but Bernie Sanders was hot on her heels in Iowa, now we look to New

Hampshire and beyond.

And the Iowa voters, Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio took some win out of Donald Trump's fail (ph). I'll ask a Trump supporter what is next for that

campaign. Then, what is the future of the Republican Party? What does Sanders' success mean for Democrats? We're now, and Washington Journalist

Carl Bernstein will look at the big picture with us this evening.

Hello everyone I'm Hala Gorani we are live from CNN London. Thanks for being with us this hour. This is "The World Right Now."


Well, we finally got some real tangible result. We know now what we're talking about with real numbers not polls. After weeks of frantic

campaigning the results came down to the slimmest of margins. Hillary Clinton just edged past Bernie Sanders to claim victory in the Iowa


Take a look though at the figures, for hours the contest was actually too close to call, CNN didn't call until we make firmly official. Martin

O'Malley by the way has since ended his campaign, he barely registered.

A short time ago Clinton told CNN's Wolf Blitzer, she is glad to have won in Iowa after a loss there in 2012. Listen to this fresh sound.


HILLARY CLINTON, (D) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, as you recall my luck was not that good last time around and it was wonderful to win the

Caucus, and to have that experience of all the hard work, the grassroots organizing payoff the way it did.

I can say that I believe the Democratic Party of Iowa run a good caucus from everything that our people told me. There was an enormous turnout

which everybody said would tremendously favor Senator Sanders. If there are legitimate issues both sides, I don't think the Democratic Party has

any problems with that. But, from everything we have learned and know, I won and I'm very proud of that.


GORANI: That was Hillary Clinton just minutes ago on CNN. Now the polls predict Clinton rival Bernie Sanders is set for a strong showing in New

Hampshire. He says the close call in Iowa has given his campaign a major boost.


BERNIE SANDERS, (D) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What this shows is that this campaign has started in a very forceful way starting way, way back and

coming to a virtual tie and we are going to fight here in New Hampshire. Look forward to winning here ...


GORANI: Well there you have Bernie Sanders. Now, that's for the Democratic side. On the Republican side, the results in Iowa were no less

surprising. Donald Trump has led the polls for weeks, but in the end Texas Senator Ted Cruz scored a decisive win. Here's a look at the final

numbers, there. You see Cruz on top with 28 percent, Trump finishing second but not by much, Florida Senator Marco Rubio is in a strong third


Jim Acosta has that story.


JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Congratulations Senator.


ACOSTA: This morning, 11 GOP candidates.

Welcome to New Hampshire.


ACOSTA: Are marching on to New Hampshire.

CRUZ: God bless the great state of Iowa.

ACOSTA: Ted Cruz is riding high after the best night in the Texas Senator's political career.

CRUZ: To God be the glory. Tonight is a victory for courageous conservatives across Iowa and all across this great nation.

ACOSTA: In a surprising victory Cruz defied the polls that had him in second place and surpassed Donald Trump by the thousands in Iowa, a

disappointment for the frontrunner that could only be described as huge.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I was told by everybody, do not go to Iowa, you could never finish even in the top 10, we finished

second and I want to tell you something, I'm just honored, I'm really honored. And I want to congratulate Ted ...

ACOSTA: Cruz turned out the most votes ever cast for any Republican winner in Iowa, a stunning result that sets the table for a long battle for the

heart and soul of the GOP.

TRUMP: We will go on to get the Republican nomination ...

ACOSTA: The brash billionaire who often boosts about this poll numbers was gracious in defeat. And even suggested he might become an Iowan.

TRUMP: I think I might come here and buy a farm ...

ACOSTA: Nipping at Trump's heels the other freshman senator.

RUBIO: They told me that we have no chance because my hair wasn't grey enough and my boots were too high.

ACOSTA: Marco Rubio's strong third place finish may give him promising momentum heading into New Hampshire.

[15:05:05] RUBIO: The people of this great state have sent a very clear message, after seven years of Barack Obama we are not waiting any longer to

take our country back.

ACOSTA: Momentum his supporters hope will give the Republican establishment the fighting chance it's been seeking in this race.

RUBIO: When I'm the nominee, we will unite our party, we will grow our party and we will defeat Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders or whoever they



GORANI: Well, it's the first caucus and one that did not go Donald Trump's way, his whole campaign built around the theme of winning, of coming in

first. But despite a second place finish in Iowa Donald Trump is leading the polls in New Hampshire. That state will host its primaries next week.

CNN's Sara Murray is in Milford, New Hampshire with the Trump campaign. Sara, first of all, reaction after yesterday's surprising results in Iowa

from the Trump camp.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Donald Trump has, no surprise taking to Twitter this morning, to say that he's very happy with

the voters of Iowa. But to express his displeasure about a couple of other things, he says he doesn't feel like the media is giving him credit for his

strong finish there, he did turn out a lot of new supporters, he was second to Ted Cruz. But, all of those new supporters didn't go to him, a lot of

them went to Cruz.

Now he's also complaining the voters aren't giving him enough credit for self-funding his campaign. And he sort of teased the rally he's going to

be having here tonight, saying he will be going after the media for their unfair treatment. But I think the bigger question is, whether we're also

going to see him going up against Ted Cruz and going up against Marco Rubio. The fact that Ted Cruz beat him and Marco Rubio was right on his

heels with a strong showing in Iowa means that both of them are competitors as he heads into New Hampshire today.

GORANI: So what's the strategy now based on what happened in Iowa, that surprising second place finish for Trump?

MURRAY: Well I think the Trump campaign is going to have to take a look at their strategy, see if they want to do anything differently. But I think

the reality is, and they've said this in the past, Donald Trump is Donald Trump, he's not going to behave like anyone else. In Iowa we saw a little

bit of a softer side, near the end he started saying, look if I'm president I will be totally different, I will be very politically correct and you

will be very proud of me. But, the reality is I'm running against a lot of other people and I need to take them out first if I'm going to win.

The questions is whether any of that transfers to a change in tune or a change in strategy on the campaign trail, in addition to maybe his tune,

skipping the debate it seems like, that last debate before the Iowa caucuses may have hurt him. But the other reality is, their ground game

there was not as strong as they proclaimed it to be. Ted Cruz was a totally different situation. He spent months building a ground game that

was unmatched in that state and that paid off for him. So, we will see if the ground operation also changes in New Hampshire for Donald Trump. But,

it's only seven days until the primaries, and not a lot of time to rebuild that.

GORANI: That's correct. And, these are first few contests, not necessarily an indication of who will clinch the nomination. Sara Murray

is in New Hampshire following the Trump campaign from there.

Back to the Democrats now. Hillary Clinton may have edged out Bernie Sanders in Iowa, but just by a hair's breadth. CNN's surveyed some Iowa

voters before they caucus. When asked about qualities they believe were important in a candidate, 83 percent said Sanders was honest and

trustworthy. Just 10 percent gave high marks to Clinton. Sanders is capitalizing on voter sentiment in Iowa as he takes the fight in New


The polls show the candidate with a strong lead in that state, well, the Senator is well-known there after all, because his own state Vermont is

right next door. You're watching live pictures by the way here from a Sanders rally in Keene, New Hampshire. Our Senior Washington Correspondent

Joe Johns is tracking the Sanders campaign. He joins me from Keene, New Hampshire with more.

All right, so we are expecting a strong showing for Bernie Sanders in New Hampshire here, how is -- what's the mood at Bernie Sanders H.Q. today?

JOE JOHNS, SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: The mood is mixed. I think when you talk to them, the first thing they say is, there's certainly no

reason for the Clinton campaign to gloat over what happened in the Iowa caucuses simply because the result there was so close, fractions of a

percent does not add up to decisive victory. At the same time, as you know, they have asked to see the paperwork from the caucuses in Iowa, and

they say they're not doing that to challenge the result, rather to try to figure out what to do better, because they do have to deal with caucuses in

the future.

And in fact in Nevada coming up very soon, they're going to have to deal with caucus situation. So, the Bernie Sanders campaign moving on here to

New Hampshire, as you can see we're outside the Colonial Theater in Keene, New Hampshire, all day long there's been a huge crowd trying to get in.

[15:10:07] We heard just a few minutes ago from a staffer who was saying that they're going to have an overflow situation here.

So, a lot of people turning out to see him, yes, it's because Vermont is close in geographical proximity to New Hampshire, but I think there are

others -- New Hampshire has a very high number of independent voters who are susceptible to some of Bernie Sanders' messages about economic

inequality, as well as campaign finance reform. A lot of the things he says really comport with the -- what people are thinking here and that's

probably one of the reason he's running high in the polls Hala.

GORANI: But I want to ask you, for our viewers by the way because we talked a lot about Sanders and Clinton being neck and neck. But nationally

they're quite far apart. I mean, the last CNN Poll of Polls, Clinton is polling at 52 percent nationally, Sanders at 38 percent. Sanders have some

significant weaknesses with minorities, Latinos, African-American, et cetera. I mean he has a lot of work to do if he wants to catch up with

Hillary Clinton here.

JOHNS: Yeah. I think that's right. And a lot of is about broadening his appeal, especially when you get to states like South Carolina which is

another early voting state, a lot of African-American voters on the Democratic side. And the question is whether he can really generate some

interest, some enthusiasm, and the kind of energy we've seen with so many of the students who flock around Bernie Sanders.

So, no question that he has a bit of an uphill climb, at least what the polls are showing. His whole biz that he can get some momentum out of New

Hampshire and keeps on rolling. Hala.

GORANI: All right, thanks Joe Johns, he's in Keene, New Hampshire. Thanks very much. And the next big political contest as Joe mentioned there is in

about a week's time.

But, there is another very interesting and important event. Democrats Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders campaign during this critical time in

New Hampshire, but while this is happening, the two will face voters in a town hall moderated by CNN's Anderson Cooper right here on CNN. It happens

at 9:00 p.m. eastern tomorrow Wednesday and we'll replay Thursday at noon, London time.

Still to come this evening, it may have been the biggest surprise of the night, Donald Trump lost to Ted Cruz in Iowa. We will look at the GOP race

going forward with Rubio on the rise. Stay with us.



MIKE HUCKABEE, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's time to officially suspend the campaign, but not because of the votes, it's because of

illness. Obviously the voters are sick of me and I need to acknowledge that.


GORANI: Mike Huckabee there with a bit of joke there, he bowed out.

[15:15:04] So did by the Martin O'Malley. He is the -- of course on the left of your screen, is a Democrat. Martin O'Malley did not register

really in the Iowa Caucuses.

Despite his attention-grabbing campaign Donald Trump did not win the night in Iowa, Ted Cruz came in first but his appeal to a broad base of voters

maybe in question. So where does the Republican Party go from here?

To discuss let's bring in my next guests, Charmaine Youst, worked in the Reagan White House. Also with us, CNN Political Commentator Jeffrey Lord,

he served as White House Political Director during the Reagan years, and has also written a book, "The Case for Supporting Donald Trump."

Jeffrey Lord, let me start with you. Now this was -- this has to be -- I mean, interpreted by the Trump campaign as a major blow after having led in

the polls for so many weeks before the Iowa caucuses, do you agree?

JEFFREY LORD, FMR. REAGAN WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Not at all Hala. I mean, and I'm not blowing smoke here, I mean, of course you want to win,

absolutely you want to win. But the fact of the matter is, Donald Trump is right. He was told he should try in Iowa because it was not his kind of

place. You know all those -- I suppose in today's lingo from Senator Cruz, all those New York values. And, he never run for office.

Despite all of that he came in second, only a couple of points behind Senator Cruz, so he did very well. Interestingly, he split the evangelical

vote with Donald Trump and Marco Rubio got some as well, so I find that very interesting and that was part of his strength.

So he's ready to go on to New Hampshire, he may already be there as we speak. If not he'll be here soon and he'll be out and doing -- he's ahead

in the polls there, it's a primary not caucus and he's got to be ...

GORANI: But he was -- Jeffrey ahead in the polls before Iowa and exit polls voters, 38 percent of people who voted for Cruz said they voted for

Cruz because, "they felt close to his values."

And this is something that didn't do Trump any favor, they didn't feel like they reflected their value.

LORD: Ronald Regan himself lost Iowa twice as a matter of fact. He lost in 1976 to Gerald Ford, the lost in 1980 to George H.W. Bush. But he went

on to win New Hampshire the second time around, not the first but the second time around and he went on. He actually lost four, five more states

after that and still managed to get nominated.

So, we're -- this is a long song (ph) here and you're going to win some and lose some, it's always good to win the first one but you got to get on to

New Hampshire and they'll be on that.

GORANI: Certainly Iowa is not an indication of who will end up being the nominee, but for a campaign like the campaign of Donald Trump, Charmaine,

the fact that he built his entire communications strategy around the idea that his number one, that he's in it to win it, coming in second, what did

you make of the result Charmaine?

CHARMAINE YOUST, PRESIDENT, AMERICANS UNITED FOR LIFE: You know I would have agreed with Jeff if it weren't for the fact that Donald Trump woke up

this morning and went on a Twit storm, sounding really petulant and not presidential, he was attacking the voters, he was saying that, you know, he

-- that it wasn't worth it to him to be self-funding this campaign, really kind of odd and bizarre.

He had an opportunity in front of him to reboot his campaign and to really attack New Hampshire, because he is still on top on the polls there. But

this wasn't a good start for him, and frankly, it was more than just being beaten by Ted Cruz. The fact that he was squeezed between Cruz and Rubio,

and the fact that Rubio was coming on so strong on Trump's back door is really not a good indicator for Donald Trump.

He wasn't expecting that, and to underperform an expectation is really a problem in presidential campaigns, almost as much as the actual results.

So the perception of how he did is really negative today. Even despite the fact, as Jeff says, he did, you know, coming in second wasn't that bad. In

terms of how he was expected to perform and kind of the rumors that he was going to really come out strong with a really -- a much better ground game

than everyone expected, really turned out not to be true.

GORANI: And Jeffrey, what do you make of this criticism, because it's not just from Charmaine, it's many in the Republican Party and the

establishment, certainly from the left who say, Donald Trump really act like a child sometimes, I mean he looses and become petulant and he starts

personally attacking people he has issues with. What do you make of that criticism? Is it not fair based on some of the Twits he's put out?

LORD: I didn't -- I mean I saw the Twits, and frankly I didn't think they were petulant at all. I mean, I just -- I didn't see it. So, I really

don't know what to say about that. But, he's going to be back ...

GORANI: He basically blamed the media as well.

LORD: ... they're going to be doing a lot press tonight, they're going to be talking to the media. I mean he doesn't run and hide from this kind of

thing, he's been giving interviews throughout this campaign to just about everybody. Good, bad, and indifferent in terms of their favoring Donald

Trump. So, he's not shy, he'll be out there and he'll be out there today.

YOUST: He comes across though as not ready for prime time because he's attacking -- he's attacking voters, which is a really odd political


[15:20:05] You just have to wonder he has got a habit of believing his own press releases which is, anyone in this game knows, that's a really bad

foundation for a campaign.

GORANI: Well, basically Jeffrey he said I wasn't given by the voters. I mean that is in a way, a way of sort of taking aim at the voters for not

acknowledging ...

LORD: He thanked the people of Iowa and said he was honored by their votes for it. So, you know, we can talk perceptions all the day long, the fact

to matter is, he came in only a couple of points, just like Ronald Reagan came in a couple of points behind George H.W. Bush. So now he's ahead in

New Hampshire and he's got a week to get it together and I'm sure he will.

YOUST: Well I think the real question ...

GORANI: OK Charmaine let's -- sorry Charmaine, I just want to ask you a general question about strategy for the party itself, because here,

fundamentally, after the several next -- the contest in New Hampshire and beyond, we're going -- I mean the Republican Party is going to have to

think about which candidate is best positioned to take on -- and the expectation is Hillary Clinton -- in the national race. Who do you think

is best positioned, best suited for that role?

YOUST: Well, you know, that's a really interesting question Hala because at this point, given the photo finish that we had last night, I don't know

that Hillary is actually sitting in a really comfortable position to be projected as their nominee. And frankly, I think regardless of the

individual, things that we had happened last night, overall for the GOP it was a fantastic night.

Because while the Democrats were going back and forth, seeing the spectacle of their frontrunner being almost taken down by this insurgent campaign.

Meanwhile the Republicans had, you know, this fantastic slate of candidates coming out with three -- three almost frontrunners now at this point, two

of whom has Hispanic heritage, are young, are dynamic, absolutely outstanding turnout. I'm guessing that this is something Jeff and I can

agree on is that, there is such a dynamism going on in the GOP side, and kind of a sense of real concern coming from the Democrats that maybe their

standard bearer isn't as strong as she needs to be going into the general election.

GORANI: Well the next few, as well contest -- primaries will reveal that. Jeffrey just a last word to you and then we have to leave it there


YOUST: I agree with Charmaine, this was a wake up call -- about uptick wake up call for the GOP establishment, between Donald Trump and Ted Cruz,

there's over 50 percent of the vote -- and Ben Carson it was forth, that's about 60 sum percent of the vote. Saying they want change, they want

something done here and they're determined to get it.

GORANI: All right Jeffrey Lord, Charmaine Youst, thanks to both of you for joining us.

YOUST: Thank you Hala.

GORANI: I really appreciate your time.

LORD: Thanks Hala.

GORANI: All right, I hope to speak to you soon.

Coming up, the other news we are following this hour including the latest in the Zika virus and we'll take you to the forest in Uganda, where the

disease was first discovered, we'll be right back.


All right, take a look at the Dow, once again it is a bad day for the main index on Wall Street, down almost 2 percent, that's 316 points lower, right

now that 16,131.

And here's a look at some other indexes, the NASDAQ and S&P also lower, and a look at European stock markets, close for the day but here's a look at

what happened a bit earlier.

[15:25:03] The Paris CAC 40 down 2.5 percent.

A new case of the Zika virus is being reported this time in Dallas, Texas. Medical officials say they have documented a case of the virus being

transmitted through sexual contact this year.

Meanwhile, the World Health Organization is warning that Zika could spread to Africa and Asia. Our David McKenzie takes us to the birthplace of the



DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Armed with crafts (ph), scientist pushed into the Zika forest in Uganda.

They discovered around 70 types of mosquito here, some carrying deadly viruses.

So this is the very precarious climb up this tower. They need to get higher, (inaudible) the different species of mosquitoes.

We're in an ecological hot zone where somatic diseases thrive.

To light, to check the mosquitoes and carbon dioxide coming off the dry ice, and we should get some overnight.


MCKENZIE: And they do. Mosquitoes that could be carrying yellow fever, Dengue, and yes, the Zika virus. The forest gave the virus its name, back

in 1947 scientist discovered Zika by accident while studying yellow fever, their rested research station is still here. But Zika infected mostly

monkeys and human symptoms were mild, it settles the map.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So instead of taking yellow fever, actually they came across another virus.

MCKENZIE: A potential key mutation and an increasingly connected world sparked an outbreak half a world away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With more than transform, which is very efficient, very fast, one person can be here today, he's bitten by a mosquito and starts

getting sick after (inaudible) virus.

MCKENZIE: Now scientist are playing catch up, looking closely at the Zika carrying Aedes Aegypti mosquito.


But in these labs they've been mostly using their high-tech equipment to diagnose patients.

The lack of funding couldn't track emerging virus threats in the forest where Zika was identified.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For sure we don't know completely what is in this forest. We have not done enough. We can't say we know anything. Every

other year we come across new viruses.

MCKENZIE: They say not many enough is being done to research viruses before they spark a global health emergency.

David Mckenzie, Zika Forest, Uganda.


GORANI: More (ph) forces in Syria are in Geneva to try and find a way of stopping the bloodshed, that's the stated aim, but they are not speaking

face to face. Instead the U.N. special envoy to Syria is trying to find some sort of way of getting them to communicate. Two previous rounds of

talks yielded no lasting ceasefire.

Now CNN is going to show you a place in Syria that does not exist, not officially anyway. Our Clarissa Ward had caught of a secret airfield being

built to help the U.S. military step up this war against ISIS. If true, it would reflect the growing relationship with Syrian and Kurdish fighters

engaged in their own battle with the terrorist group. Clarissa found it and you'll you see by the reception she got she was not meant to see this.

You can watch her explosive report and get more on the conflict issues reports live from Erbil, that's in Northern Iraq tomorrow on the program

and on CNN.

Now, coming up, we return to the race, Ted Cruz may have won but we'll look at Iowa other surprise standup Marco Rubio. We'll look at why he's still

confident after -- what was after all a third place finish.


RUBIO: When I am our nominee we are going to unify this party and we are going to unify the conservative movement.




HALA GORANI, HOST: Welcome back, a look at our top stories. Democrat Hillary Clinton has won a narrow victory over Bernie Sanders in Iowa.


GORANI: The win is a very small one and polls show Sanders is in the lead in New Hampshire. Voters there go to the polls on February 9th.

On the Republican side, Ted Cruz managed to knock Donald Trump off his pedestal to claim victory in Iowa.


GORANI: Also among our top story, medical officials in Dallas, Texas are reporting a new case of the Zika virus. What's interesting and significant

here is that they say the patient contracted it through sexual contact locally this year, not after having been bit by a mosquito.


GORANI: Meanwhile, the world health organization says that people in Asia and Africa are now at risk of contracting the disease. It is declared a

global health emergency.


GORANI: North Korea has told the United Nations it will launch a satellite into space in the next month.


GORANI: This is the video from 2012 when the North said it was firing off a rocket carrying a satellite. Officials in the U.S. say the same type of

rocket that would put the satellite into orbit could also be used on a ballistic missile.



GORANI: Third place usually isn't a cause for celebration. But Republican Marco Rubio's strong showing in Iowa could be a sign of things to come. At

least he hopes. Take a look.


GORANI: Florida Senator Marco Rubio may have come in third in Iowa, but you wouldn't guess so from his victorious speech.

MARCO RUBIO, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Tonight here in Iowa, the people of this great state have sent a very clear message. After seven

years of Barack Obama, we are not waiting any longer to take our country back!

GORANI: Rubio did outperform expectations, finishing only one percentage point behind Donald Trump with Ted Cruz topping the list.

RUBIO: They told me that we have no chance because my hair wasn't gray enough and my boots were too high.

GORANI: The 44-year-old Cuban-American who was mocked by rivals for wearing high-heeled boots on the campaign trail, plays up his position as the

underdog. He's only been a senator for five years, but his supporters say he's the future of the Republican Party.

Fluent Spanish-speaking Rubio says he wants to secure American borders, but he's repeatedly showed support for illegal immigrants being given a path to

American citizenship, a position which has cost him support on the right of his party and seen him attacked during Republican debates.

TED CRUZ, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Some chose like Senator Rubio to stand with Barack Obama and Chuck Schumer and support a massive amnesty


GORANI: Rubio's own life is the embodiment of the American dream. His parents left Cuba for Miami in the 1950s. The family moved to Las Vegas

where his father worked as a bartender and his mother a maid. Rubio frequently draws on his rags to riches story in campaigning.

RUBIO: America doesn't owe me, but I have a debt to America I can never repay.

GORANI: This patriotism translates into hawkish foreign policy. Rubio says he will not only undo the U.S' nuclear deal with Iran on day one of

becoming president, but he will increase sanctions. He thinks the U.S. should not accept any Syrian refugees, and when it comes to dealing with

is, he suggests America should film its prisoners and put them on YouTube.

RUBIO: I want the world to see how these ISIS leaders cry like babies when they're captured.


GORANI: Rubio's critics have called him the republican Obama, suggesting his youth and charismatic speech making cannot compensate for his lack of

experience. But this strong performance heading into the next primary and with voter friendly states on the horizon, Marco Rubio may just be getting



GORANI: Well, my next guest is a household name to many of our viewers, pillar to prize winning former "Washington Post" reporter Carl Bernstein

has covered American Presidents and politics for decades. He's also the author of the book among others, "A Woman in Charge: The Life of Hillary

Rodham Clinton."

Carl Bernstein joins us now live in Los Angeles. Thanks for being with us. First of all, surprising results on the Republican side from Iowa. What do

you make of what happened yesterday?

CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: In Rubio, there is a formidable candidate who has great oratory, who has some appeal to center-

right voters who goes beyond Trump's generalizations and banality.


BERNSTEIN: Who's more than a showman and has a message and a kind of presence that could win some independent votes. He's a formidable


GORANI: OK. So surprised by Trump that he was leading in the polls for so many weeks if not months before the first contest and then ended up really

barely coming in second?

BERNSTEIN: I think it's time that we start paying a lot less attention to these damn polls. We're allowing it to drive our journalistic agenda. We

need to be finding out more about these candidates. One of the things we found out last night, which should not have been too much a surprise, is

how vulnerable and flawed a candidate Hillary Clinton is and perhaps a real danger to the Democrats who -- and she can be attacked by the Republicans

viciously and with some real substance.

The matter of the server hanging over her candidacy can be a real sort of Damocles as we go through the coming months. She is a very flawed

candidate, and Bernie Sanders demonstrated it last night as did the people of Iowa.

GORANI: All right. That's interesting that you -- I was going to bring up the server issue here. Is this something that could really sink her? I mean

essentially, unless it turns into, I don't know, I mean, maybe truly an investigation that would lead to some sort of indictment, unless truly she

gets in trouble at that level, will the server issue hurt her?

BERNSTEIN: Again, I think, you know, unquestionably it is hurting her and will continue to hurt her. Do I think, from what I know that she will be

indicted? Very unlikely. Is there unquestionably evidence that she has been reckless with the way she handled this, that she has been disingenuous in

the way she has discussed it, and is it very vulnerable to exploitation by the Republicans particularly and it's very, very disturbing to many

Democrats because of what it brings up about Hillary Clinton's history in terms of truth telling, in terms of being open. She has got an awful lot of

baggage for a candidate in which the Democrats should have great advantage in this race.

At the same time, she has a remarkable record of accomplishment. She has done wonderful things in her life. She stands for what most people in this

country, if we are to believe the deep polls for what most people in this country want to see in terms of the issues.


BERNSTEIN: But she is carrying a hell of a lot of baggage and we saw it again last night when somebody she should have trounced, a self-described

socialist, Senator from the State of Vermont, had managed to give her the race of her life, you know, when she should have beat him hands down.

GORANI: Well, I guess now we're just going to have to look at beyond New Hampshire. In New Hampshire, Sanders leading. If you look beyond, I mean

the latest poll of polls nationally, Hillary Clinton is very much in the lead by 14 points.


GORANI: I mean, she's 52 to Bernie sanders' 38. So there you have much more of a lead --

BERNSTEIN: I think we have to stop looking at these polls so seriously. I think we have to start to downplay.

GORANI: But at least it an indication.


GORANI: I mean let's say we're off a few percentage points, but at least it's an indication that nationally she has many strengths with minority

voters, with females, et cetera, that Sanders has many weakness with here.

BERNSTEIN: Polls are a snapshot when they're at their best, they're a snapshot of the current moment. And we are early in the process. Many

things have happened that none of us anticipated in this campaign. I think the only thing we can say with certainty is that we're going to have more


Everything is shaken up on both parties. Let's see where it goes. Let's dig into these candidates' records, what they're saying, how it parses with the

truth, particularly on the Republican side, some of these newer candidates we haven't really looked at deeply enough. We know an awful lot about

Hillary Clinton. We know a lot about Bernie Sanders.


BERNSTEIN: In fact, with Bernie Sanders, we also need to look at his record.


BERNSTEIN: You know, he hasn't stressed his record, for instance, being in the south in the civil rights movement with the congress for racial

equality, the student nonviolent coordinating committee, working in the civil rights movement. There is an interesting biography there that is just

starting to come through.

GORANI: So we've got to look at that. On the Republican side, I want to ask you, I mean for the benefit of international viewers who have been

following this race on CNN.


GORANI: They hear a lot about Trump and some of the outrageous things he's been saying, some of the racist things he's been saying, for instance, some

of the pronouncements he's made on Muslims shocked many international observers.


GORANI: You have then Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, et cetera. Everything that's coming from the Republican Party. Is this a reflection of the portion of

the electorate? I mean are they physically holding up a mirror to the electorate --

BERNSTEIN: -- Well it's a real reflection on what the modern Republican Party has become.

GORANO: And why has it become -- what has it become and why?

BERNSTEIN: Well, I think it could take cultural historians and sociologists about 50 years to figure it out. We've had 35 years of cultural warfare,

the right has been very successful, the conservative movement, but it also has been taken over to a certain extent.


BERNSTEIN: The conservative movement. By these angry forces who are not movement, "conservatives" but rather are appealing particularly Trump,

particularly Cruz, but in case of Trump, really a kind of neo-fascist and kind of authoritarian willing to do anything in terms of raw exercise of

power, to suspend people's rights, a vision of America that we haven't seen, a kind of demagoguery like this. You'd have to go back to Joe

McCarthy. I'm not sure that Cruz is much better in this regard, a little smoother perhaps.


BERNSTEIN: But his vision of America is really quite extraordinary, quite far ideologically to the right in a way that would change this country in a

transformational manner if he were to become President. And I don't think there's evidence yet that he is a mainstream candidate who could win a

Presidential election. That's not saying he can't. But we've got to see more evidence.


BERNSTEIN: But right now what we know is there's an angry electorate out there and the people who have been unable to appeal to that angry

electorate are Hillary Clinton, are Jeb Bush, are people in the Republican center-right coalition; we'll have to see how Kasich does in New Hampshire.

There's a possibility there of some breakthrough. But let's see what happens. But right now, Bernie Sanders of all things, Bernie Sanders a

self-described socialist has captured the imagination of many, many people in the Democratic Party who think that a revolutionary message in terms of

economic fairness and the role of the banks and Wall Street has got to be curtailed and hit hard.

GORANI: You mentioned the anger vote. I mean, it is on the left Bernie Sanders and on the right Trump and Cruz. It's angry voters frustrated who

feel disgruntled, who feel like they've been ripped off. And from one side or the other they're feeling that they're been --

BERNSTEIN: It's more than that. We have -- we have a large part of our citizenry in this country today that is dissatisfied with the way things

are going in America. It's not just anger. It's disappointment. It's being left out. It's a lack of optimism. And these people have to be engaged by

the candidates. And so far the candidates who have engaged them are Trump, Cruz, and Sanders, which is very, very interesting.

GORANI: All right. Carl Bernstein, thanks very much. Really appreciate your time on CNN.

BERNSTEIN: And Rubio, too, is starting to. Thanks.

GORANI: Absolutely. Rubio coming in third. We'll see how he does in New Hampshire. Thank you very much.

BERNSTEIN: Good to be with you.

GORANI: A lot more coming up; will Britain remain in the European Union?


GORANI: It is being put to a public vote, yes or no. And ahead of that, David Cameron has been negotiating with the E.U. Did he get what he wanted

in order to satisfy voters in the U.K? We'll be right back.






GORANI: Let's turn our attention to a vote of a different kind. Will Britain stay part of the European Union? The country will hold a referendum

on that issue most likely this year. Yes or no? Do you want in or do you want out? Prime Minister David Cameron has spent months trying to

renegotiate Britain's role in the block. Finally, there is some sort of draft deal on the table. Will it satisfy those who want to leave?

Phil Black explains.


PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: June 6th, 1975, the last time the British people had their say on whether or not to stay inside the

European Union. 67% of voters were in favor. So Britain has remained part of the growing economic block now made up of 28 nations. Fast forward 40

years. The U.K. holds an election and returns David Cameron's Conservative party to power. It allows him to deliver on a key promise made to satisfy

many in his own party, a national vote on the U.K's membership in the E.U. to be held by the end of 2017.

DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Yes, we will deliver that in/out referendum on our future in Europe.

BLACK: Cameron wants Britain to stay in the E.U. but says he need a better deal to sway British voters. He's demanding reform in four key areas.

CAMERON: We want to have a Europe where we're not subsumed into a superstate but we can be proud and independent. We want a Europe that is

competitive. We want a Europe that respects our currency and treats us fairly. And we want a Europe that takes the pressure off in terms of


BLACK: Migration is the big, contentious one. Cameron believes many Europeans come to Britain because of generous government benefits to low-

paid workers and he originally pushed a deal that would see migrants go without those benefits for four years. But the E.U. said, no way, that's

discrimination. So the suggested compromise is an emergency break where benefits can be suspended temporarily if migration rates are causing

excessive pressure on the country. Cameron says this draft agreement is real progress.

CAMERON: If we can secure what's in this document and finish off the details and improve it still further, we'll be able to show that on balance

Britain is better off, more secure, more prosperous, better chance of success for all our families and all our people inside this reformed

European Union.

BLACK: But critics aren't impressed. One anti-E.U. pressure group calmed it a worthless package of so-called reforms. The E.U. leadership also has a

tough sell convincing other member states to embrace compromise. European Council President Donald Tusk reminded them the stakes are high, tweeting,

"to be or not to be together. That is the question." now the focus is thrashing out the details to secure a final agreement at an E.U. summit

this month. If successful, the British people could soon learn when they will get to vote. The earliest possible date would be in June.

Phil Black, CNN, London.


GORANI: Well, David Cameron says he wants to stay in the E.U. under reformed conditions, not everyone agrees, including members of his own

Conservative party.

I'm joined in the studio by Anne-Marie Trevelyan, an MP from the Conservative Party here in the United Kingdom.

So let me ask you first about what was proposed, this draft proposal of changes, of reform, of changes to the rules. Are you satisfied with that?

ANNE-MARIE TREVELYAN, BRITISH MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT: No. I'm afraid the Prime Minister put forward four areas that he felt really were urgently in

need of reform and what we've had back in the draft letter today from Mr. Tusk is not even an acceptance that those four areas are really critical

and that the E.U. would do all it could to provide those for the British people.



TREVELYAN: So it's a very disappointing day I think for those that wanted to see some really strong reform.

GORANI: So there's more work that needs to be done. Are you confident some sort of agreement can be found that would satisfy you and other who is

weren't happy with what they heard today?

TREVELYAN: No. I'm afraid so far what we've heard is whilst Mr. Cameron is doing his best to present the case, the Eurocrats are simply not listening,

not hearing how important it is to the British people, that when we talk about migration controls, that's us having control of the migration

decisions, not them deciding when they can put a foot on their brake which they determine. That the red card in terms of proposed legislation is

something that we could determine, not 16 countries requiring it, therefore the chances of reaching that agreement within 12 weeks --


GORANI: But that's the whole point of the E.U. It's you know you agree on rules, legislation and they apply to everybody. I mean otherwise you don't

want to be part of the European Union.

TREVELYAN: Well, and I think that's the challenge we've got, too, is the British people have been in a state of real frustration and wanting to have

a voice on this and the PM has put forward some requests. But actually there isn't - it feels like nobody's listening in Europe to what is

important and I think the reality will be that the British people are more likely to say as a result of today, do you know what, it's safer to take

back control ourselves and vote to leave, and work from there.

GORANI: You would be comfortable with the U.K. leaving the European Union after 40-plus years of being a member?

TREVELYAN: Personally, yes. I think, you know, we're a maritime nation, we're a global nation, and actually you know our trading partners are

completely international. We trade with the European block amongst others, but we could do better for the British people and I think for our trade

figures working in a much more global way.

GORANI: But there's so many disadvantages to exiting this block, aren't there? I mean - I just -- I have a list down here, because I just put down

the most obvious one. You have no influence on setting product service rules but you have to abide by them if you are going to trade with the

E.U., no access to other E.U. countries, labor mobility into this country actually helps keep prices down because you're able to sort of compete.

People who will accept lower wages will come live in the U.K. there's so many advantages.

TREVELYAN: None of those things are impossible to achieve if we were within a positive trading relationship but not locked into the E.U. framework.


TREVELYAN: I don't think having control of our migration would mean that we would shut the door but we would be able to determine who we chose, what

skills we wanted. We wouldn't' have - and so this is a huge problem for large numbers of the British people.

GORANI: But the way people from outside of the U.K. look at it and say why would anyone in the United Kingdom want to exit this big, influential block

and become just an average-sized country without much influence in the world when part of the - when being part of the block means they have a

much stronger negotiating position?


TREVELYAN: We are the fifth largest economy in the world as it stands, planning to take over I'm told from Germany, who will move to five, and

we'll move to four in the next two years. We are a very, very substantial economic trading organization of our own. And I don't think people need to

worry that that will be the case. We would find a new way to do our trading relationships with the European block which wants to in large part move the

a single federal state. That's fine if that's what they want to do. Certainly I don't want to be a part of that and I think most of the British

people don't either.

GORANI: All right, Anne-Marie Trevelyan, an MP here from the Conservative Party reacting to today's development on a possible -- it's called a

"Brexit," the British exit potentially from the European Union. We're expecting maybe a referendum in June. Is that correct?

TREVELYAN: That seems - that I think is the earliest date we could have it and then over the summer you're not allowed to have referendums in Britain

because if we're on holiday we don't do such things. Otherwise it would be September. So we wait and see what --

GORANI: If you're part of the E.U. your holidays will be longer, you'll have more time to think about it. Thanks very much, Anne-Marie Trevelyan

for joining us.


GORANI: Coming up, this little football fan's homemade shirt could get him one step closer to meeting his idol.


GORANI: We'll have a heartwarming story on this little boy from Afghanistan in just a moment.






GORANI: A 5-year-old Afghan boy has been at the center of a worldwide search. He was photographed wearing a football jersey made out of a plastic

bag with blue and white stripes with the name of his idol, Lionel Messi, just sort of sharpied on it looked like.

CNN managed to track down the young sports fan. Our Nima Elbagir has his story.


NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: In the impoverished Afghan province of (Resni), just surviving is tough enough. So what do you do when

you want something so simple yet so out of reach? You improvise. To 5-year- old Murtaza Ahmadi, Barcelona team captain Lionel Messi is a hero.

MURTAZA AHAEDI: (As translated) Messi. I love Messi. I love him very much.

ELBAGIR: More than anything he wants to wear his idol's shirt, but those are hard to come by out here in rural Afghanistan. So he and his older

brother came up with a plan.

AHMADI: (As translated) those who don't have a Messi shirt should make it from a plastic bag.

ELBAGIR: While the Ahmadi brothers were celebrating their ingenuity, his hero was celebrating his fifth (inaudible) as world's best player.

LIONEL MESSI, FOOTBALLER: (As translated) This is much more than anything I dreamed of as a kid.

ELBAGIR: Ahmadi's happy dance in his makeshift shirt was posted by his family online and the picture went around the world. Catching the attention

of Messi himself. Afghanistan's Football Federation says Lionel Messi's charitable foundation is now working on setting up a meeting putting Messi

and arguably his most ardent fan together.

For Ahmadi's father, (Arif) who came of age under the Taliban, when football was rarely played and the Afghan national stadium was used as a

venue for public executions, it's almost too much to hope for.

ARIF AHMADI, MURTAZA AHMADI'S FATHER: My biggest hope is to have a football stadium in our district, which is (Tragori) district in Ghazni

Province, this is my dream.

ELBAGIR: So now the 5-year-old says he's making do with a punctured old ball and the hope that his dream of meeting his hero could finally come


Nima Elbagir, CNN, London.


GORANI: Well, we sure hope there's a meeting with Lionel Messi in his future, a proper jersey and the rest of it and a brighter future.

Hopefully. I'm Hala Gorani. This has been "The World" Right Now. Thanks for watching, a quick break and then it's "Quest Means Business."