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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield
Sanders and Clinton Spar; New Hampshire Polls; Trump in New Hampshire. Aired 12-12:30p ET
Aired February 04, 2016 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:00:21] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to LEGAL VIEW.
One wants revolution, and the other one vows results. All the rest is pretty much in the details. And you know what they say about those details, those pesky details. Five days away from the nation's first presidential primary, and Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton gave the Democratic voters of New Hampshire, and the nation, because it was televised nationally, all those details and those policy distinctions. And they did a lot of them, too, in last night's CNN town hall.
My CNN colleague, Brianna Keilar, has the recap.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Of course we're an underdog. We are taking on the most powerful political organization in the country. And that's, you know, the Clinton organization.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Only five days away from the New Hampshire primary, Senator Bernie Sanders taking off the gloves during last night's Democratic town hall, jabbing Secretary Clinton over which candidate can claim to be progressive.
SANDERS: And you can't go and say you're a moderate on one day and be a progressive on the other day. Some of my best friends are moderates. I love moderates. But you can't be a moderate and a progressive. They are different.
KEILAR: Clinton pushed back at his assertion when she took the stage.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I said that I'm a progressive who likes to get things done. And I -- I was somewhat amused today that Senator Sanders has set himself up to be the gatekeeper on who's a progressive, because under the definition that was flying around on Twitter and statements by the campaign, Barack Obama would not be a progressive, Joe Biden would not be a progressive.
KEILAR: Sanders forcing Clinton to defend her relationship with Wall Street.
SANDERS: I do not know any progressive who has a super PAC and takes $15 million from Wall Street. That's just not progressive.
KEILAR: The former senator from New York stumbling a bit when Anderson Cooper asked her about her paid speeches from investment giant Goldman Sachs.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN MODERATOR: But did you have to be paid $675,000?
CLINTON: Well, I don't know. That's what they offered. So -- you know, every -- every secretary of state that I know has done that.
COOPER: But that's (INAUDIBLE) --
CLINTON: Part --
COOPER: (INAUDIBLE) office and not running for an office again. You must have known.
CLINTON: Well, I didn't know -- to be honest, I wasn't -- I wasn't committed to running. I didn't -- I didn't know whether I would or not.
COOPER: You didn't think you were going to run for president again?
CLINTON: I -- I didn't.
KEILAR: Clinton tackling another tough subject when an audience member asked her about her vote for the war in Iraq.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What have you learned since that vote that could give me confidence that you wouldn't make a mistake of that magnitude again?
CLINTON: Oh, I think that's a very fair question. You know, I did make a mistake, and I admitted that I made a mistake.
KEILAR: That mistake, one that Senator Sanders has repeatedly gone after.
SANDERS: The key foreign policy vote of modern American history was the war in Iraq. The progressive community was pretty united in saying, don't listen to Bush. Don't go to war. Secretary Clinton voted to go to war.
KEILAR: But Clinton, standing firm.
CLINTON: All I can do is to just get up every day and work to do what I believe our country needs, find ways to help people, whether it's on mental health or addiction or autism or student loans, whatever it might be. And I trust the American people, I trust the people of New Hampshire, to see my lifetime of work and service and to sort out all of the static and to know that I will work my heart out for you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: Hearts and minds are what elections are supposed to be about. And I want to talk about this particular election and all those different hearts and minds out there with CNN political commentators Margaret Hoover, who's also a Republican consultant and Sirius XM radio host, and Sally Kohn, progressive columnist for "The Daily Beast" and supporter of Bernie Sanders.
And that whole progressive in your title --
SALLY KOHN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Progressive.
BANFIELD: Is going to be very helpful.
KOHN: I lean Bernie, but definitely progressive, yes.
BANFIELD: OK, here's what I don't understand. First of all, I'm -- New Hampshire voters are a different animal. They're really sophisticated. So all of that lingo and all the real subtleties of the lingo may play well there. But when you start going across the nation, sometimes they can't answer who the vice president is. So the difference between progressive and progressive with results becomes a little more arcane and difficult. With that in mind, when, ladies, did being a moderate become a dirty word in liberal politics? You can both have at her.
KOHN: Well, I mean --
MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You're -- you're the progressive.
KOHN: I mean it is, right? I mean, in other words, liberalism has become, you know -- it's, frankly, was Bill Clinton that helped to sully the sort of meaning of liberalism, right? It was passing the Defense of Marriage Act against gay marriage. It was supporting NAFTA and free trade that decimated jobs here and abroad. It was a whole set -- it was welfare, quote/unquote, reform that kicked people off of welfare and slashed the welfare rolls. These were policies that were supported by a Democrat president. These are the kinds of things that progressive Democrats want to move away from and, frankly, want to move the party away from.
[12:05:28] HOOVER: So, you know I what -- you know I love you --
KOHN: Let's -- I mean I'm stating a fact.
HOOVER: You know I love you, but -- but what you're seeing in Sally is something that you've seen a corollary in on the right for a long, long time, which is that the two sides of the party -- God, I sound like my husband -- truly are getting further apart because there are these purity tests on the far right and the far left.
BANFIELD: Yes.
HOOVER: You're starting to see this on the new left, that the rise of this new progressive movement that believes that climate change is the worst problem facing the United States of America. They want to get rid of Obamacare because it just wasn't single-payer, it wasn't pure enough.
KOHN: No. HOOVER: And there's -- there's these new purity tests on the left that I think have made being a pragmatic leader a real Obama villain for Hillary Clinton.
BANFIELD: So let me -- let me show you something from last night when Bernie Sanders was asked about negative ad campaigning, because this whole progressive business is exactly what the question was about. He started to insert that into his ads, and some say that it's a negative campaign. But here's what Bernie Sanders' answer was when he was asked about it last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS: It's unfortunate, you know, in politics, and everybody should know this, what media often wants you to do, and you're asked this question. I'm sure it's the same for Secretary Clinton. Beat her up. Tell me some terrible about her. Attack her. Because that will make the news.
I have tried my best not to do that. You're looking at a guy who has been in politics a long time. And I have never run a negative ad in my life. And I look forward to never running a negative ad in my life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: It's kind of a true/false thing because he did say, I don't know any progressives out there who haven't, you know, taken money from Wall Street and voted for the Iraq War.
KOHN: It's not -- you're not attacking her personality. Words have -- words have meaning.
BANFIELD: My question is -- my question is, is this going to be helpful to Hillary Clinton if she makes it to the general, because you do have to moderate.
KOHN: You know, listen, first of all, words have meaning. Progressive is different than moderate. And if Hillary Clinton is a progressive, then I'm Che Guevara.
BANFIELD: Margaret --
KOHN: So it's just -- it has to be a definition. This is about a Democratic primary and voters need to have the conversation (ph).
HOOVER: Look, this is really -- is it -- look, Bernie Sanders is proving his reason for existing here. His reason for existing is putting a flag in the sand for the programmatic, for the progressives. Hillary Clinton will win by being a pragmatic progressive, not by being where Bernie Sanders is.
BANFIELD: So last night Anderson Cooper asked Hillary Clinton specifically as well about the speaking fees. Bernie Sanders ran that ad saying, I don't know a progressive that accepts money from Wall Street and Anderson asked her about speaking fees that she got from Goldman Sachs. Let's listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: Look, I made speeches to lots of groups. I told them what I thought. I answered questions.
COOPER: But did you have to be paid $675,000?
CLINTON: Well, I don't know. That's what they offered. So -- you know, every -- every secretary of state that I know has done that.
COOPER: But that's (INAUDIBLE) --
CLINTON: Part --
COOPER: (INAUDIBLE) office and not running for an office again.
CLINTON: Well, I didn't know --
I'm out here every day saying I'm going to shut them down, I'm going after them. I'm going to jail them if they should be jailed. I'm going to break them up. I mean, they're not giving me very much money now. I can tell you that much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: OK. I have a little fact check here. I don't know what very much money is to Mrs. Clinton, but apparently -- and I'm going to tell you right now, from the Center for Responsive Politics, since she declared in April, Hillary Clinton's campaign, whether it's her campaign or the super PACs, has received $17.2 million from the securities and investment industry, which to me says Wall Street. I don't know if it is or if it isn't. But, Margaret Hoover, you can't say that Republicans don't get tons of money from Wall Street too.
HOOVER: Yes, no, the vulnerability for her here, in a general election matchup, is that the -- the median income for a family of four in the United States is $52,000. So in one speech she's making $250,000. This is an issue of being unrelatable. This is an issue of, like, well, you're running against potentially Marco Rubio or even, frankly, Barack Obama, only paid off his student loans.
BANFIELD: But Colin Powell is relatable and Condoleezza Rice is relatable and they got $150,000 --
(CROSS TALK)
KOHN: And Trump (INAUDIBLE) and Cruz got a loan for his campaign --
HOOVER: (INAUDIBLE) running for president pretending to represent the little guy.
KOHN: Ted Cruz got a loan for his campaign from Goldman Sachs.
Look, you know, the reality is, this is a healthy debate they're having in the Democratic Party. But against the Republican candidates, who are all right wing extremists out of touch with the majority of the American people, I'm sorry, but you have every major Republican candidate wants to roll back women's health, wants to give more power to big business, wants to, you know, send more jobs overseas, support the trade deal.
HOOVER: So you're going to go for the pragmatic progressive then?
KOHN: So -- well, I'm saying, you know, we have two good, strong substantive candidates here who are arguing about how to help the working people, whereas all the Republicans want to --
HOOVER: Hypocrisy is the unforgivable sin in politics, and she's taking money from the big banks and then she's (INAUDIBLE).
BANFIELD: OK, let me -- let me move on to the --
KOHN: I don't like it.
BANFIELD: Vulnerability here, and -- and that is, again, I'm going to start with that point that I made off the top of this segment, and that is that Bernie Sanders' ad said, I don't know a progressive who takes money from Wall Street and voted for the war in Iraq. Now, she was asked by Anderson last night again about that vote. We're talking over a decade ago when she was a senator. And she voted to give the president authority to make the decision to invade Iraq unilaterally. And have a listen to the answer.
[12:10:22] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: I did make a mistake. And I admitted that I made a mistake. And in large measure, that mistake really arose from the -- the Bush administration's approach to what they thought they could accomplish in Iraq. The very explicit appeal that President Bush made before announcing the invasion, that getting that vote would be a strong piece of leverage in order to finish the inspections.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: OK, so that lovely lady who asked the question was not Anderson Cooper, that was an audience member. Great question. But --
KOHN: And that person who answered it -- like Elmer Fudd? I mean --
BANFIELD: May I say -- may I say that those people who asked those questions last night, my humble opinion, but also Gloria Borger's a lot of watchers, that those voters last night asked brilliant questions and were very engaged. They need to be super engaged to understand the answer to this question. It is not an easy question. It is not an easy answer. The United Nations is involved. The chief weapons inspector for the U.N., Hans Blix, is involved. This is tricky. Can it get lost in the details?
HOOVER: No. What they -- what the questioner said is, how can you convince me that you won't make that bad decision again? And she didn't actually answer the question. What she did was give the excuse for why she made the vote. And what she said was incredibly, as you mentioned, it was a winding answer about how actually she voted for the authority to go to war so that we wouldn't go to war, we'd still look for WMDs, which, frankly, in my opinion, one has to suspend disbelief, if you can excuse the term.
KOHN: We agree.
BANFIELD: Yes, there is (INAUDIBLE) room here to (INAUDIBLE).
KOHN: We agree. And again, not progressive. I mean this was -- this was a very cut and dry issue for progressive voters.
BANFIELD: So I want to know what your highlights were from last night. I already said my highlights were those voters. Those questions were so smart and so well-versed and so well-put. (INAUDIBLE).
HOOVER: Frankly, I mean the gentleman who asked about the end of care life, when he -- he is going to be facing end of care -- end of life health care decisions himself and then asked about this. You know, you could see actually even Hillary Clinton got a bit upset. There were real moments of vulnerability. And it's quite poignant to have somebody, you know, who is facing end of care decisions, asking a politician about it.
BANFIELD: Yes.
HOOVER: They may not even be around to see the politician execute on those policy decisions.
BANFIELD: The result. Yes.
What do you think?
KOHN: Look, no candidate's a monolith, but here you have Hillary Clinton, historically one of the most pro Wall Street, hawkish candidates to come out of the Democratic Party, being made to try and account for being a progressive and distance herself from those views. That's a success, not only for Bernie Sanders, but for the voters and the movement he represents. And it's nice to see this kind of substantive debate happening among Democrats, compared to the hot mess on the other side.
BANFIELD: Yes, well I did -- I did enjoy watching last night. I thought it was -- it was a great tone.
HOOVER: IT was.
BANFIELD: Anderson did a great job. The voters, again, were the winners on that one. It was just terrific.
HOOVER: It was good forum. A good forum.
BANFIELD: Margaret, I appreciate it. Thank you. Sally, thank you.
KOHN: Oh, so make sure you appreciated me too.
BANFIELD: I do. I appreciate you ever day.
KOHN: (INAUDIBLE).
BANFIELD: OK.
So is the youthful swell of support for Bernie Sanders really all about Bernie? Or is it also about rejecting Clinton? And which one of them really has the best chance of beating a Republican nominee? We're going to dig into those questions, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:17:22] BANFIELD: At least for now, the youth vote is one monumental distinction between the two Democratic candidates for president. Eighty-four percent of voters under the age of 30 turned out for Bernie Sanders in this week's caucus in Iowa. Caucuses in Iowa were well attended and that number is not good if you're Hillary Clinton. In New Hampshire, a new CNN/WMUR poll shows that two-thirds of voters aged 18 to 34 favor Bernie, that Democratic socialist from neighboring Vermont. Again, youth vote is key. In last night's CNN town hall, Sanders said his message simply resonates with America's new two (ph) or turnoff by politics. But Hillary Clinton says that she looks at demographics differently.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: I think -- here's what I want young people to know. They don't have to be for me. I'm going to be for them. It doesn't really matter. If they -- if they are not supporting me, I -- I will be their president. I will do everything I can to give them the opportunities they deserve.
SANDERS: What we are trying to do, and I would tell you, Anderson, with some success, is bring working people, and young people, and lower income people into the political process. And when that happens, you know what, we will raise the minimum wage, we will have health care for all people, we will make public colleges and universities tuition-free.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: From Manchester, New Hampshire, I am now joined live by Luis Miranda, who's the communications director for the Democratic National Committee.
Thank you, Luis, for being on the program today.
I've got to ask about these -- these numbers.
LUIS MIRANDA, COMMUNICATIONS DIR., DEMOCRATIC NATL. COMMITTEE: Thank you.
BANFIELD: I mean it is remarkable when you see that divide between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders. The youth vote in your state right now, if you believe the polls leading up, has them at 66 percent for Sanders, 25 percent for Clinton. And I'm wondering if all the research that you and your team are doing with the DNC there, if those numbers are reflective in your research too. MIRANDA: Well, I think one of the things that we're seeing in our
research is that people are enthusiastic and increasingly focus in on this election. And that's a good thing for us. If we go back to Iowa on Monday, one of the numbers that we were really focused in on that was very exciting is that we have two candidates, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders, drive out 171,000 people. Almost as many as 11 Republicans. So just think about that, two Democrats versus 11 Republicans and the turnout was virtually the same.
That's really significant because it showed that our candidates are able to energize people. Yes, of course, there's going to be differences in terms of the demographic split that they have. Secretary Clinton had certain advantages in certain demographics. Senator Sanders had advantages on his end. But at the end of the day what we're seeing is that the energy and enthusiasm is there and that's important for us because after a town hall last night, where, you know, you really saw the candidates come in with a lot of energy, we think we're going to see a very spirited debate tonight on MSNBC as well --
[12:20:11] BANFIELD: So, Luis --
MIRANDA: With these two candidates facing off head to head.
BANFIELD: Let me ask you --
MIRANDA: And I think what that's going to show is energy into the general election.
BANFIELD: Enthusiasm is great. And turnout is great. Sometimes. Not every campaign wants that. And when you have those numbers, like those -- those youth numbers, that's troublesome for -- for Secretary Clinton.
Let me show you the numbers for independent voters in New Hampshire, because what we've got here is another big spread. For Sanders, independents are 72 percent, and only 15 percent for Secretary Clinton. So here's the question. With numbers like that, what's going to happen with the 41 percent of people who said that they're still not sure what they want to do, and we're only five days out?
MIRANDA: Well, that's a great question. But for us I think it also speaks to -- to an important dynamic here. Let me make clear that the DNC is neutral in this process, so we don't take sides. I leave to -- to the campaigns to parse out the numbers and how they affect their particular campaigns. But for us, we see an important dynamic here coming into New Hampshire because we're going to see a very independent vote. This is not in the same vein as Iowa. And what you had coming out of Iowa was the four top vote-getters on the Republican side were very conservative, very far right. Whether you look at, you know, Ted Cruz, Ben Carson and Donald Trump, who were all, you know, caught up in this turmoil over election fraud yesterday, or Marco Rubio, who spent the week touting far-right endorsements for people who like him don't support abortion, even in the cases of rape and incent. We just don't think that that's going to play well in -- in a state like New Hampshire. And the Republican Party is in a situation right now where they just
don't have any moderate candidates who are picking up steam, who have any energy with -- with their voting base. So we feel pretty good about the fact that if our candidates are energizing, whether it's Senator Sanders energizing young people, whether it's Secretary Clinton energizing her supporters --
BANFIELD: Yes.
MIRANDA: We -- we feel that we're going to come out of this being able to gel together and bring our voters together in a way that Republicans just can't because they've had to move so far to the right that they just don't have any mainstream establishment candidates, if you will.
BANFIELD: Can I -- can I ask you, I'm always fascinated with the demographics in New Hampshire and I was -- I can't say it enough, I was so impressed with the voters that I saw last night in the town hall. I'm sure you were too. They were bright, they were articulate, they were thoughtful and they were varied in what they asked, which was great.
MIRANDA: I was, yes.
BANFIELD: In New Hampshire you can't avoid the fact that some of the most recent polling has Hillary Clinton 18 points behind Bernie Sanders. Listen, back in '08, she was more than ten points behind Barack Obama and she came back just in a matter of days and actually ended up winning that state. Do you see any path for that same dynamic to happen this time around?
MIRANDA: That's what's great about elections. Well, look, that's what's fascinating about elections and that's what -- why it's exciting to watch. And our candidates are definitely generating enthusiasm. So we expect that the numbers are going to move, they're going to tighten up, just as they did in Iowa. But, again, I'm not here to represent the Clinton campaign. I'm here to talk about the fact that we have candidates who here in New Hampshire are really motivating voters, and they're doing it because of what you saw at the town hall last night, which is that they understand and they respect the struggles, the hopes, the aspirations of the people that they're talking to. When you have folks who are talking about something as personal as what we heard, whether it was even the medicinal marijuana question, you know, very personal issues. And you have candidates who are thoughtful, respectful about it, and they're actually providing answers that are substantive. I think that's the big difference we're seeing.
Where on the Republican side, you're not hearing substance. You hear everybody sort of go back to carpet bombing, or to, you know, Ted Cruz was asked a question about Flint, Michigan, and he went on a rant about anti-poverty programs. There is just no reality, no connection to the struggles of people on the Republican side. So when you see things like last night, where voters come with their real concerns, and you have candidates like Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton, who actually address their questions, we think that that bodes pretty well for us as a party going into the general election.
BANFIELD: Luis Miranda, it's great to have you. Thanks so much for being live on the program.
MIRANDA: Thank you.
BANFIELD: Coming up next, all of the top Republican contenders say that they are the one who are most qualified to beat Bernie Sanders or Hillary Clinton come November, including this man, Donald Trump, who is doing something on the campaign trail today that he has not done before. Wondering what that is? We're back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:28:56] BANFIELD: The Republican candidates are going at it, hammer and tongs, in New Hampshire today. Happening right now, Donald Trump is speaking. And also during this hour, Chris Christie will have an event, Ted Cruz will have an event, Marco Rubio, all expected to be up and live during the lunch hour, meetings and greetings and rallies and pitching themselves and their plans these dwindling days before the first in the nation primaries. But look who no longer has to do any of that. Just in the past four days, the list of presidential candidates is down by four. The Democrat, Martin O'Malley, Republicans Rick Santorum, Mike Huckabee and Senator Rand Paul no longer running. They've all suspended their campaigns in the face of poor polling and the effect on their campaign coffers. Can't run if you're not getting the bread.
Dana Bash is in Exeter, New Hampshire, at a Donald Trump event there where money is never an issue.
Listen, I've got to ask you, Dana. Much has been discussed about Donald Trump's ground game in Iowa. Even he admitted that maybe he didn't do exactly what he needed to do and yet it does not seem that much has changed as he heads into New Hampshire.
[12:30:13] DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's funny you say that.
