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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Campaigns Move to New Hampshire; Review of Democrat Town Hall; A Look at Sanders Tax Plan; Cosby Case Update. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired February 04, 2016 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:30:04] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN: Much has been discussed about Donald Trump's ground game in Iowa. Even he admitted that maybe he didn't do exactly what he needed to do and yet it does not seem much has changed as he heads into New Hampshire.

DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's funny you say that. He has been speaking for the past 20 minutes and it's quite a different speech. Let's just start there. No insults. No polls. Usually, historically has started his speeches just reading the polls about how great he is doing.

It's really been, so far, back to basics, Ashleigh. Why he's not bought and sold by lobbyists. Why he can do things without being beholden to sort of big money people like other politicians are. And then he just went into the issue that he even admits put him on the political map for Republicans, which is illegal immigration. And then he started to do what you've got to do in a place like New Hampshire, which is take questions.

I think he's -- if I'm appearing, over my shoulder, while, he's taking the second question here. So actually, it's striking, what a different tone so far we're hearing from Donald Trump, especially given the fact that last night he was in Arkansas, hurling insults at Ted Cruz about a whole host of things. Not right now. It's quite note worthy.

BANFIELD: Keep your eye if you would, after the speech is over on that whole ground game issue. Because there's a lot of talk that he still has to get the machine in place, that wasn't in place perhaps in Iowa. It's different to do rallies and have those workers and that data and that whole political machine going. That's the big criticism right now of his workings.

All right, Dana bash, thank you for that. We'll let you get back to the Donald speech.

Candidate Donald Trump is actually going to join Anderson Cooper for an extended interview in New Hampshire. That will be 8:00 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN. >

Free college, boy that sounds good. No more health care premiums. Wow, that sounds great! But can America really afford this? Bernie Sanders says he's got a way to pay for it that includes raising your taxes, but in the end, saving you money. When you really crunch the numbers, though, does that actually ring true? You might be surprised at what you're going to hear. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:36:33] BANFIELD: One big criticism of Bernie Sanders is that his social and health care plans are very expensive. And that his plan to pay for them is to raise your taxes.

At last night's CNN town hall in New Hampshire, a working father stood up and asked that candidate pointblank, why will you raise my taxes?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator Sanders, the first thing I hear about you is that you're going to raise taxes on the middle class. I support my family on a salary of $41,000 a year. I'm wondering if you raised my taxes, how does that help me?

SEN BERNIE SANDERS (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Can I stand up?

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN, ANCHOR: You can do whatever you want.

SANDERS: Chris, thanks very much for that good question. This is what we are going to do. The United States is the only major country on earth that doesn't guarantee health care to all people, and we end up spending far, far more per capita on health care as do the people of any other country, Canada, U.K., France, whatever.

What we are going to fight for is a medicare for all single-payer programs, which would provide comprehensive health care to your family and every family in America.

So let me tell you what we do. We raise your taxes if you're somewhere in the middle of the economy, about 500 bucks. But you know what we're going to do for health care? We're going to reduce your health care costs by $5,000.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Well, that just sounds awesome. Christine Romans from CNN Money joins me now to really put some reality checks on this. Because I read the piece that CNN Money did today and my head was spinning. There is a possibility here, if you crunch the numbers, this kind of a plan -- just for the health care, could add to deficits between 3 and $14 trillion?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Right. So the campaign says they're going to be able to raise taxes on, for example, investors and on high net worth individuals and on the middle class, raise taxes for everybody, and be able to pay for this.

The number crunchers that senators -- the committee rather, for responsible federal budget says no, best-case scenario, there is a $3 trillion hole, worst case scenario, there is a $14 trillion hole. And here's what's so interesting about this. You're talking about a top tax rate of 85percent for the richest Americans, 85 percent, which even some liberal economists' say that starts to -- that's not great for the economy to have such a high tax rate there. BANFIELD: Because the rich folks who say you're taxing me at 85

percent? I'm out of here. I'm going to stop working or I'm moving to the Bahamas.

ROMANS: Also the taxes on investment income, higher taxes and investment. Just higher tax is all around. Now, Bernie Sanders and his whole philosophy is this is worth it, if you can get the system to be more efficient. If you can get the gunk of the insurance companies out of the system and people can, you know, have free health care, you don't not have to pay out of your pocket for health care. But overall, this is resonating, by the way, more especially with young people who want ...

BANFIELD: Young people want free college. We haven't even discussed the cost of free college. Do we know those numbers yet?

ROMANS: Right, those numbers, there's a lot of questions about those numbers. But the philosophy behind that is to have Wall Street shall again, pay for that. Every kind of speculative trade would have a tax that would pay for this. So states would pay for about third of it. Two-thirds would come from the federal government. And that would be paid for by this tax on Wall Street.

He says, you know, the American taxpayer bailed out the banks after the financial crisis. Well then the banks should be responsible for making sure kids can graduate from college without debt. He goes farther than Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton says you should be able to graduate from a state university without debt. That's what we would like to get toward. He wants you to be able to go for free. Big question is about how many people come into the system then and whether the states can afford it.

BANFIELD: Well, Hillary was getting a $17.2 million in campaign contributions for her campaign or for her SuperPAC from the securities ...

ROMANS: Right.

[15:40:08] BANFIELD: ... investment industry in the last year. Bernie had like less than 50,000.

ROMANS: Well, it's like maybe a rounding error. It's not even ...

BANFIELD: Did he have a category though?

(CROSS TALK)

ROMANS: Here's are the securities industries, this curious industry.

BANFIELD: Yeah. Goldman Sachs

ROMANS: Even the CEO of Goldman Sachs yesterday on CNBC said this is a dangerous moment when you have a candidate calling out banks in particular like this.

BANFIELD: Christine Romans with the Reality Check, thank you for that, appreciate it, as always.

ROMANS: You're welcome.

BANFIELD: Up next, progressive or conservative? Republican or Democrat? All politicians are still people, no matter what they're labeled. Do you need the proof, because we have it? A few rare personal moments with Bernie, Hillary. Just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: With primary season full swing now, every day we get our fill and more of talking points and policy and debate and attacks and partisan rhetoric. And rarely do we actually get a glimpse into the candidates' personal lives, their moments. Whatever makes them real people instead of animatronic politicians on the stump?

Last night, we got something. We did it. Anderson Cooper actually did it. He was the asked those Democratic the contenders about the real stuff, their family, their faith and even their cars.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[12:45:07] SEN. HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've had to be in public dealing with some very difficult issues. And personal issues, political, public issues. Regardless of how hard the days are, how difficult the decisions are, be grateful. Be grateful for being a human being, being part of the universe. Be grateful for your limitations. Know that you have to reach out to have more people with you to support you, to advise you. Listen to your critics. Answer the questions.

SANDERS: Everybody practices religion in a different way. To me, I would not be here tonight. I would not be running for president of the United States if I did not have very strong religious and spiritual feelings.

I believe that as a human being, the pain that one person feels, if we have children who are hungry in America, if we have elderly people who can't afford their prescription drugs, you know what, that impacts you, that impacts me. And I worry very much about a society where some people spiritually say, "It doesn't matter to me. I got it, I don't care about other people."

CLINTON: Of course, it would have to end with seeing my granddaughter, because that's the creme de resistance, at any day.

COOPER: What does she call you?

CLINTON: She calls me grandma. She is working really hard on words, and it was -- it was so thrilling Sunday morning, I'm getting ready and, Bill and I are having coffee and everything, so Chelsea brings her in, and she sees me, and she goes "Grandma!" and honest to goodness the caucus could have ended right there. I would have been perfectly happy saying the best thing has happened to me right, just after being in Iowa.

COOPER: So, what kind of car do you actually have?

SANDERS: I have a small Chevrolet. It is one of the smallest Chevrolets that they make.

COOPER: Do you know what year it's from?

SANDERS: Yes, about five years old.

COOPER: OK. Not bad.

SANDERS: A red car.

COOPER: Is it true you chop your own wood? (laughter) It's a red car. Is it try you chop ...

SANDERS: Pretty good on mileage, but yeah.

COOPER: Is it true you chop your own wood?

SANDERS: I wouldn't go that far.

COOPER: OK, all right. [laughter]

SANDERS: People in Vermont and New Hampshire would laugh at me. What I do though is, you know, we have a wood stove and I -- you know ...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I think he won me over with the wood stove. I grew up with a wood stove. I love that he has a wood stove.

HOOVER: Well he's also very authentic about the fact he doesn't chop the tree down but does split the wood.

BANFIELD: Exactly, those Americans would give you credit for chopping your own wood.

KHON: Every time I split wood, I get a bad back. So, I'm very impressed that Senator Sanders could do that (inaudible).

BANFIELD: Did you (inaudible) on the Manhattan side walk are you?

(CROSS TALK)

KHON: Brooklyn, Brooklyn.

BANFIELD: So, I wanted to get your take. You guys watch these guys all of the time. You're always watching for policy points and debate points, but you don't get this very often. Did much of it resonate with you? Did you think it was scripted, Sally? I know, you're like that you're forever in this ...

SALLY KOHN CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's very hard here in our little media bubble to turn off our cynicism. I feel like sometimes we're professional cynics. And you know, look, I thought they were really genuinely human moments, where you could tell -- you could tell Sanders wasn't prepared to be asked what kind of car he drives. He would have studied a better known the model, right. You could tell that Hillary was genuinely excited to see her grandchild and her hear grandchild call her grandma.

I though they are really, you know, touching in human moments, and (inaudible) I should and say.

BANFIELD: Did they not tell their candidates, do more of this when you're out there?

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, the tone comes on the on top for as much as you think that, you know, the staffers and the handlers and all these people inform what happens from the candidate, and when direction and the tone really just come from the impulse of the candidates. And that's -- the staff take their cues from that. It's top-down, not bottom-up in this campaign.

BANFIELD: And there's advice, there's advice. People are watching polls, people are watching television. She is not able to watch television all of the time. She is not able to watch television all of the time.

KHON: You know, that it's the -- that Margaret is right. Because you know her campaign has been trying for a long time to reshape her to be more warm and funny. And you just can't t work -- you can't work.

BANFIELD: You said yourself that Hillary is different in small groups and big groups. And I personally have been in a very small group where she is a very different person.

KHON: Electric, warm, connecting.

BANFIELD: Electric. Like her husband.

KHON: Part of that -- it's different. Every person is better or different or has different strengths and weaknesses. She has always had more trouble playing to a larger stage. She is the inverse of Obama. Obama can come off as terse and cold in a small group and is magnetic in a larger space. That was one of her challenges.

HOOVER: The best part was at the end, you learn things you hadn't heard before. Like I didn't know Bernie Sanders had a band. And that this band has an album. And this album apparently is going nuts on Amazon.

BANFIELD: Yeah. It's terrible. It's terrible.

HOOVER: (Inaudible) today, and Sally says selling like caucus night. Apparently Sally is buying it right now.

KHON: It's selling like pop tarts. They're just -- it's going gangbusters.

HOOVER: And then he splits his own wood, and Ashleigh, there's the story about her grandchild. Of course that helps humanize her, but if you have actually in that room ... BANFIELD: Do you have any idea, either real quickly, why a gruff, 74-

year-old guy, who just doesn't play to anybody necessarily, or -- it seems like he doesn't care if you don't like his answer. Why he's doing well with young people.

[12:50:09] HOOVER: Exact same thing as Rand Paul. #authenticity. There is an authenticity factor for him that he principled and he is believed what he's says and he's going to do what he says and he's done it his whole life. That's number one. And number two, the millennials have been hit by the recession stronger more than anybody else.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... two side os the coin.

BANFIELD: You don't think it's because she is offering freebies to people who have never had to pay taxes before?

KHON: No, I'm, sorry. It's just now true, right. These are young people who are demographically more progressive and like his economic message. And they like the messenger. But it's really what he's saying.

BANFIELD: Sally Khon, Margaret Hoover, always good to have you, thanks, ladies. I know it's a busy season for you, appreciate your time.

UNIDENTIFEID FEMALE: Happy to be here.

BANFIELD: We're going to get right back to the race for the White house shortly. But first, Bill Cosby's lawyers are mad. And they're saying as much to the judge, saying the judge got wrong, saying he's going to have to deal with these criminal charges. Decade-old sexual assault lawsuit is going to go ahead. Criminal charges, in fact, could get ugly, folks.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:55:19] BANFIELD: This just in. A judge has denied bail for a Virginia tech student who was charged as an accessory in the murder of a 13-year-old girl.

I'm talking about Natalie Keepers, who's been charged with accessory before and after the fact. Yes, before and after. As well as disposing of Nicole Lovell's body. Prosecutors say that Keepers state of mind was, "excited to be part of something secretive and special".

Three p.m this afternoon, Lovell will be laid to rest. Investigators believe she was planning to expose an inappropriate relationship that she had with the suspect in the case, David Eisenhower. A law enforcement official says investigators also believe that Eisenhower stabbed her to prevent this secret from getting out. We'll continue to cover that story for you as developments come in.

And then there's this. The influential, powerful and once beloved T.V patriarch, Bill Cosby has lost an epic battle, this one, with a Pennsylvania judge. It's a loss that could lead to one of the biggest celebrity criminal trials of our time. And that includes OJ, because a judge ruled that a woman named Andrea Constand and her sexual assault case against Bill Cosby can and will go forward. And by the way, this is not civil this is criminal, much to the dismay of Cosby and his high powered legal team. They say for their part, this decision was all wrong and they plan to appeal it.

Michael Smerconish, the host of CNN's "Smerconish"joins me, live now from Philadelphia.

I would like you to put your lawyer hat on, and your Philadelphia lawyer hat on, Michael Smerconish, if you can. Because I found this to be very strange, there seemed to be a lot of politicking going on in that courtroom. These were prosecutors against prosecutors, deals that were made that were said not to be made in the right way, and ultimately a judge came down. Is there any politics to this, or is this just straight up a seriously good criminal case?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH: Even the judge said, Ashleigh, this is a unique situation. And when he went looking for case law to see whether the old D.A. could bind the new D.A in a non prosecution agreement, one that was not written down, he said that he couldn't find any. Which goes to your original point, there will be an appeal in this case.

Are politics at work here? Well, the lack of prosecution of Bill Cosby was absolutely a campaign issue in the most recent race for D.A., where the old D.A. was trying to reclaim his job. And both men used this as campaign commercial fodder against one another. So, yes, there's politics involved.

BANFIELD: OK. So then let's just talk about -- if we can get past appeal and let's just say the appeal doesn't go Cosby's way either. Then we're into an actual case. And the arguments that I've been hearing up until now is that Bruce Castor, that old D.A, never felt like he had enough. He didn't have the goods to actually make this thing happen for him in court, to get a prosecution to get a conviction.

So what's changed? Is there something new that happened? Is there something secret? Is there something better that today's prosecutors could bring against Cosby? That maybe Castor didn't know about?

SMERCONISH: First of all, you're correct in saying that Castor said that he didn't believe that he could meet his criminal burden beyond a reasonable doubt back in 2005. And let me give you some local insight. Bruce Castor was known as a tough D.A. Ashleigh, he never met a camera he didn't like. And this type of a high-profile prosecution, the Castor that I know would have relished the opportunity to go after Bill Cosby.

So when he says he didn't think he would meet his burden, it rings true to me. And he says, therefore, he wanted a clearer path for Andrea Constand to do well in her civil case. He actually testified on Monday he would have liked to have seen her become a millionaire. So because he announces he's not going to prosecute Cosby, Cosby now

gives that infamous civil deposition, does not invoke a fifth amendment right and says incriminating things. And so to your question, what's new, well, the deposition is new. But I'm not convinced that deposition is still going to come in, because Judge O'Neill yesterday in saying the case can continue, left the door open for challenge.

BANFIELD: Yeah, you know what and I'm going to say this. When you read those words over and over again, I could come up with a million different contexts for those words, as well.

So I think there's a robust defense, as well. But let's not jump to that. We have still the appeal to get through. And Michael Smerconish, you should be on this show more often. Can you do that?

SMERCONISH: I'm here. As long as I'm off radio, I'm yours.

BANFIELD: I love that. Thanks, Michael. Good to see you.

SMERCONISH: Thank you.

[13:00:03] BANFIELD: And thank you, everyone, for watching. My colleague, Wolf Blitzer, takes over the helm right now.