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Martin Shkreli Faces Congressional Hearing; Banks Suffering from Low Oil Prices; Greece and Migrants Discussed; ISIS Numbers Increasing in Libya, Dropping in Syria; Syria Aid Donors Conferece. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired February 4, 2016 - 16:00:00   ET




RICHARD QUEST, HOST: -- which is a digital software internet company ringing the closing bell. I've got a good feeling about tonight's gavel

the way they're enjoying themselves. Don't forget to do it.

Yes, you knew that was going to be a good robust gavel with the market up nearly 79 points on Thursday, it's the 4th of February.



QUEST: Tonight, the people's representative versus Martin Shkreli. U.S. congress fails to wipe the smile off his face. There's chaos on the streets

of Athens. A general strike has turned violent once again in the Greek capital. And one of the biggest fund-raisers in history. The world's

pledging billions of dollars to Syrian refugees.


QUEST: I'm Richard Quest. We have an hour together, and I mean business.


QUEST: Good evening. The smirking face of unfettered capitalism appeared on Capitol Hill. As Martin Shkreli the former Chief Exec of Touring

Pharmaceuticals was giving evidence and giving at a Hearing.

He was dubbed the most hated man in America after he raised the price of a life-saving drug by 5,000 percent. You'll remember the story.


QUEST: Shkreli smiled his way through a congressional hearing. Then blasted the lawmakers on twitter moments after leaving the hearing room.


QUEST: As Clare Sebastian reports, there was one phrase that he reeled off time and time again during the hearing.


MARTIN SHKRELI, FORMER CEO, TURIG PHARMACEUTICALS: On the advice of counsel, I evoke my Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination

and respectfully decline to answer your question.

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: For a man whose outspoken nature earned him the nickname "pharmabro", this was an unusual display of


During an increasingly tense exchange on Capitol Hill, members of the house committee on government oversight and reform tried to provoke Shkreli.

TREY GOWDY, U.S. HOUSE REPUBLICAN: Is it pronounced "Shkreli?

SHKRELI: Yes, sir.

GOWDY:: See there, you can answer some questions. That one didn't incriminate you.

SEBASTIAN: They tried to distract him.

GOWDY: We can even talk about the purchase of a -- is it "wutang clan"?

SEBASTIAN: They even tried to appeal to his better nature.

ELIJAH CUMMINGS, U.S. HOUSE DEMOCRAT: You can go down in history as the poster boy for greedy drug company executives or you can change the system.

SEBASTIAN: Martin Shkreli earned that poster boy notoriety when as CEO of Touring Pharmaceuticals he raised the price of Daraprim, a drug used to

treat aid patients by 5,000 percent. In an e-mail obtained by congress, it's clear Shkreli immediately saw the profit potential in acquiring the

drug, writing to Touring's chairmen last year, nice work as usual, $1 billion, here we come.

BENJAMIN BRAFMAN, LAWYER FOR MARTIN SHKRELI: I think it's extraordinarily unfair that Touring has been singled out for the type of unfair publicity

that they have received. And when all of the facts about Daraprim and Touring are ultimately disclosed I think everyone will recognize that Mr.

Shkreli is not a villain, he's not the bad boy, I think at the end of the story, he a hero. Excuse me --

SEBASTIAN: The reason behind his Fifth Amendment plea, he's currently on bail on securities fraud charges facing a possible 20-year prison sentence.

And while he has spent much of his time cultivating support on twitter, live streaming his life on YouTube and giving interviews, his new legal

team have other ideas.

BRAFMAN: One of the conditions of my engagement was that from hence forward he does not speak to any member of the press at all until the criminal

charges are resolved. We want to try this case in the courtroom and not in the media.

SEBASTIAN: Still, having exercised his Fifth Amendment rights Thursday, Martin Shkreli then proceeded to employ the first. He tweeted, hard to

accept that these imbeciles represent the people in our government.

Clare Sebastian, CNN, New York.


QUEST: Well of course the case of Touring and Shkreli involves two companies, Touring Pharmaceuticals and Valeant and they've defended the

price increases vigorously. That 5,000 percent increase.


QUEST: So if you take what Shkreli himself says and Valeant say, they say the drug is free for those who need it and that the increased revenues from

the 5,000 percent increase will fund research and development on new drugs.

Touring's Chief Commercial Officer was also given - was at the hearing and said that the patients don't feel the cost increases. Most only pay 1 cent

per pill. Now of course you'll be asking well, if they're not paying, who is.


QUEST: The answer of course came from Valeant's interim chief executive who made it clear the drug is administered by hospitals who make the profits,

and the price only affects the profits for the hospitals and the patient's access is not reduced. That's the way it all puts together.

Buddy Carter is a congressman from the State of Georgia and the only pharmacist in congress. He opened today's hearing by excoriating the


BUDDY CARTER, U.S. HOUSE REPUBLICAN: Mr. Chairman, I'm disgusted that we're here today to talk about drug price increases. As a pharmacist for over 30

years, I've owned and operated numerous pharmacies in the southeast, Georgia. As the only pharmacist in congress, I know free market principles

are the best way to provide quality affordable health care to the American people. But what was done here is different. Perverse business practices

were employed to exploit a patient group trying to do nothing more than extend their lives. None of the witnesses here today have had to look into

the eyes of someone who's trying to make the decision between buying groceries and buying medication. No one here today has seen the look on a

mother's face when she realizes she can't afford to buy her child's medication. I have.


QUEST: The congressman joins me now live from Washington. Sir, thank you for taking time to join us. Now, obviously, Mr. Shkreli has a perfectly

good constitutional right to invoke his Fifth Amendment against self- incrimination and I'm sure you're not going to deny him in any shape or form that prerogative. However, you do believe that he could have answered

some of those questions.

CARTER: Absolutely, I believe he could have answered some of those questions, Richard. And by the way, thank you for having me here. You know,

as I said, I've been a pharmacist for over 30 years. And we in the healthcare field are held to a higher standard than others are.


CARTER: What happened here is disgusting and just inexcusable. Shkreli and Touring have exploited the system and it's our responsibility in congress

to make sure that we have safeguards so this cannot happen. They targeted a group of American patients and tried to price gouge them. That simply is



QUEST: And when they say that it's actually most patients only pay one cent. That the hospital profits are really what's hit and as you and I, men

of the world, know that's insurance companies and it is dispersed across the vast populous, you don't buy it?

CARTER: I don't buy it for one minute. All of us can see through that. You know Touring calls themselves a pharmaceutical company even went as far as

to call themselves today a research pharmaceutical company.


CARTER: They're just a shell of an organization. They exist for no other reason but to exploit the system. I have to tell you that this Shkreli is

an evil genius. I mean what he's done is immoral, it's repulsive and has no place in our health care system in America.


QUEST: Now, what did you think of his text that he sent where -- afterwards, having pleaded the Fifth, he then goes on to say as you saw,

you know, basically I can't believe these imbeciles for which respectfully, sir, he means you, are representing our government.

CARTER: You know, I don't pay any attention to this. Obviously, this guy's got a few loose screws and there's something wrong with him. He really

needs help.


QUEST: He needs help maybe. But what it does expose on the wider issue is the nature of the pharmaceutical industry in this country.


QUEST: As a pharmacist, sir, I suspect you are not going to tell me that there doesn't need to be major reform.

CARTER: No, I'm not going to tell you that and you're exactly right and that's why we had the hearing today. We need to know what we need to do in

congress. What we need to do at the FDA and approval process. We've got 3,800 drugs in the pipeline right now that need to be approved. We need to

know how we can improve that.


CARTER: How we can assist the FDA in getting this job done. We need to know how we can address drug shortages that come up from time to time. And what

we need to do. You know, I believe in free market principles. And I certainly believe that's the way we're going to have affordable health care

in America.


QUEST: So how do you prevent free market principles? And this is very much one of the issues in the Presidential election. If you look at the various,

particularly your party's various prospective nominees all arguing at the moment about how to make the free market work like a free market, but

without the perversions of a Touring or Shkreli situation.


CARTER: Well, what I think we found out today is we need more competition. What can we do in the United States congress, in the federal government, to

increase competition among suppliers and to increase competition among drug manufacturers. What can we do to improve transparency? We need to improve

transparency. And as I said earlier, what can we do to assist the FDA in doing a better job of approving some of these drugs?

QUEST: Congressman, thank you for taking time and coming to talk to us sir, we appreciate it.

CARTER: Thank you, Richard, I appreciate it very much.

QUEST: We will continue our look at our nightly digest of what happened on Wall Street. It was a very bumpy day for U.S. stocks.


QUEST: Here's how the Dow Jones closed. We'll tell you what's happened, what moved the markets because there were some specific factors today.






QUEST: U.S. stocks had a choppy session. And if you look at the Dow Jones and look at how the market. I mean that you don't see - well you're seeing

it more and more. But what's interesting I think about this session, the moments or the hours of green are much greater than these little pockets of

red which clearly suggest there were technical factors which all of a sudden shorted out the market and took it negative.

But the general trend of the market during the course of this Thursday was obviously higher and you certainly see that at the end where the closing

number was up 79 points after a volatile day.

The S&P and the NASDAQ also had a rocky ride. Both closed the day slightly higher.

Now if you take a look at the factors that were making investors anxious and you've clearly got one of the number one issues at the moment, it

simply won't go away, either from the producers or the downstream refiners or the big oil companies. And we got that -- we saw that bit and large with

Shell, which announced a stunning drop in profits. Down some 80% over year on year. And as a result, Shell following on from what we saw - seen with

BP and with Phillips, and others, more job losses, 4,000 jobs are to go and cost cutting is on the way.

Then not only did you have the oil companies, oil and banks seem to be going together. Credit Suisse was the one that was in the news today.

Credit Suisse shares dived sharply. Look at the way this went. This is today. There you go, straight down and 4,000 jobs are to go. The chief

exec says even with this and the jobs, and the losses, and the difficulties, they can weather the storm.


TIDJANE THIAM, CEO, CREDIT SUISSE: In any scenario the losses of a nature are in hundreds of millions. OK, so for a company of our scale, with a

capital position we have, they are manageable. It's never unpleasant to have losses but they are manageable.


QUEST: Now, economies around the world, if that's Credit Suisse's situation, economies are under pressure. And it was the evidence from the

European Commission. Every - twice a year they come out with their forecast, this is the winter forecast, and you see they cut the Eurozone

forecast quite sharply. The growth forecast was down. The Bank of England also cut its forecasts.



QUEST: Economic protests we saw re-emerging in Greece. Police in Athens fired tear gas after small scuffles broke out at a rally against pension


All in all, you'd be well pleased and worried to know what's going on. Mohamed El-Erian, is the Chief Economic Adviser at Allianz, he's live from

Irvine, California.


QUEST: This is getting really tricky now. Because we are -- we've known a slowdown. We've known emerging market problems. We've known China. But now

we're seeing corporate evidence of the malaise.

MOHAMED EL-ERIAN, CHIEF ECONOMIC ADVISER, ALLIANZ: And that's absolutely right. And we've also lost our seat belts. So the slowing global economy.

And it's now quite a broad-based slowing as you pointed out. Europe has revised down its growth estimates. Areas of emerging economies are having

real issues.


EL-ERIAN: And that's slowing global economies. Now starting to impact corporate profits. And there's less confidence that central banks are going

to be able to bail the system out this time again.

QUEST: They can't bail it out because what do you bail it out with.


QUEST: I mean you know you've already got the Fed. All right so the Fed -- nobody thinks we're going to get four interest rate rises. I assume you

haven't been at the cooking sherry and think they're going to get four interest rate rises.

EL-ERIAN: No, at most we'll get two and even two may be a high number.

QUEST: Right, so, we can get that out of the way. There are more negative interest rates maybe from the Europeans with some form of nonsense out of

Japan. But they're tapped out as well. That's not working. That's not giving the monetary stimulus that one might have expected.

EL-ERIAN: You know what they want to do Richard, is to force you to take more risk. They want to take rates so negative in Japan, so negative in

Europe, that you say, you know what, I'm not going to pay for the privilege of lending my money I'm going to go to the stock market so they want you to

raise stock prices so that makes everybody feel better. But you know what investors are getting smart. They're realizing without a fundamental

improvement in the economy and in corporate earnings that this game simply doesn't yield long-term prosperity.

QUEST: And that's the problem because if the wish to transfer risk back on to investors into the market, it's fighting what we've just seen today

which is the cyclical downturn or even structural some might say in corporate profits. What needs to be done to break this logjam?

EL-ERIAN: So you want fundamentals to validate asset prices and take them higher. That's fundamentally what's needed. And for that, you need much

more than the Central Bank. You need to deal with the structural impediments to growth. You need to get a better allocation of demand

between the will to spend and the wallet. And you need a lot better global policy coordination. So we have the solutions, Richard, that's what's so

frustrating. There are the solutions out there. It's just a question of political will and implementation.

QUEST: So let's leave it on the note of -- what is stopping that political will and determination? You know I always Juncker's comment at the height

of the crisis in 2009 or 10 saying we know what needs to be done, we just can't get re-elected if we do it. But what now is preventing that political

will from doing it?

EL-ERIAN: It's the emergence of nontraditional anti-establishment parties on both sides or the (inaudible). People are angry. After so many years of

low growth. After the worsening in income inequality and wealth inequality. People have lost trust in the system. And they're angry. So what are they

doing? They're supporting in quite large numbers anti-establishment movements. The minute you have an anti-establishment movement the

establishment itself cannot operate like it used to, and that's why we've got this political paralysis.

QUEST: Mohamed good to see you sir, thank you for talking to us and for putting that in beautiful context, we appreciate it.

Talking of the anti-establishment, let's go to exactly that issue. The dramatic scenes outside the Greek parliament.


QUEST: Which is a perfect example of exactly what Mohamed El-Erian was talking about. Remember, it was that anti-establishment feeling which

brought Tsipras and (inaudible) into government. And now in government they're having the difficult time of actually legislating the reforms.


QUEST: There are clashes between the police and a number of protesters which all marred an otherwise peaceful demonstration over pension reform.


QUEST: Now aside from the struggles with debt, excessive spending, Greece is bracing for a fresh wave of migrants this spring. I spoke to Constantine

Michalos the President of the Athens Chamber of Commerce, and I put it to him that things weren't looking pleasant for Greece.


CONSTANTINE MICHALOS, ATHENS CHAMBER OF COMMERCE AND INDUSTRY: Absolutely not, Greece today found itself in an absolute standstill with strikes over

the pension reforms. On an everyday basis, the economy is at a complete standstill. As long as this political instability continues, as long as the

austerity deepens, then I think that we're facing a traumatic time ahead of us.

QUEST: The people voted for this government and the government signed up to the European Commission and the Troika's policies.


QUEST: So arguably what you're now seeing is merely the long-term implementation and effects of those policies. One of which was of course



MICHALOS: Well Richard, I shall remind you that practically a year ago, this was the government which as the opposition at that particular time had

promised to tear up the previous austerity plan, to kick out the IMF and our European lenders and to increase pensions and of course increase the

minimum wage.

Instead, today, this was the reason for the strike. We had legislation that has been proposed in order to reduce effectively the pensions. This

government has signed off the third austerity in a very deep austerity agreement with the European partners and lenders. And instead of kicking

out the IMF, today we had numerous armed police around the hotel where they're staying in order to protect them.


QUEST: Is it likely that the country will find itself going to the polls again sooner ran they're later? Because if the protests don't abate and the

slim majority and the poor quality, if you like, of the government, that could push you back to elections.


MICHALOS: That would be absolutely tragic. It is possible because there is a slim majority held by the government. There are three parliamentarians

that actually keep this government alive. It could very easily go the other way but it would be absolutely tragic because it's not just the economic

crisis the Greeks are trying to rid themselves of.


MICHALOS: We now have also the refugee situation which is extremely critical for Europe as a whole but primarily for Greece.

QUEST: The situation in Greece, and we're talking about the refugee situation as we continue our program this evening.

It's all about cutting off major sources of ISIS fundings .


QUEST: In a moment, we're going to show you the oil field that was recently reclaimed from the militants.





QUEST: U.S. Intelligence officials believe that the number of ISIS fighters in Libya may have doubled to about 6,000, while numbers in Syria are



The U.S. believes the decline is partly due to air strikes that have killed many fighters. The air campaign has targeted a major source of ISIS


Our senior international correspondent Clarissa Ward has just visited an oil field that was recently taken back from the militants.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well Richard, it wasn't so long ago that ISIS was making $500 million a year on its oil

fields. This was the most important continuous stream of revenue for the militant group. But on the back of a protracted air campaign led by the

U.S. and also as a result of plummeting oil prices, ISIS is now really starting to feel the pinch. Take a look.


WARD: Bubbling beneath this desolate landscape is the black gold that funded the ISIS war machine. (Baz Shiro) is a fighter with the Syrian

Democratic Forces who are battling ISIS in this part of the country. He showed us around an oil field in a rural (Hasika) that was seized from the

militants two months ago.

ISIS earned a lot of money from these fields, he tells us. People from all over this area came here to buy their fuel. You can still hear the hiss of

gas, but the pump is no longer operational. The U.S. led coalition has been hammering ISIS' oil, which at one time generated $40 million a month. Air

strikes have targeted refineries, pumping stations, and lines of tankers waiting for gas.

(Shiro) says the militants learned to adapt. In each field they put just one person as a cashier to sell the fuel and only one tanker could come at

a time, he says. They used this tactic because the planes are looking for big groups, not individuals.

But Kurdish fighters and U.S. air strikes eventually forced ISIS into retreat. All that remains now of their presence is some graffiti. The Kurds

and their Arab allies here are desperate to get the oil pumping again, but they have two major problems. Firstly, the front lines are still just a few

miles away from here, and secondly, they don't have the money or the expertise that they would need to start repairing the damage that has been


The trickle of oil will not become a flow for months or even longer as ISIS fighters fled, they destroyed what they could, electric cables were cut,

booby traps were laid. Only one facility was left untouched just behind the refinery, a row of tanks turned into an underground prison. Each cell held

up to 15 people, he tells us, among them women and children. Written on the walls of one, a harrowing message -- "I'm not afraid of dying but I fear

the tears of my loved ones."

(Shiro) and his men are now starting to clear the wreckage left behind by ISIS. But they can't erase the terror inflicted here.

And I wanted to just read you some more of that graffiti. This was obviously written as a message to a loved one. It said, "even if my eyes

can't see you, my heart will not forgive you." really painting such a vivid picture of the horrors that these people went through. And our guide on

the ground there told us that ISIS reserved these cells for those who it deemed to be worst offenders. Richard?


QUEST: Clarissa Ward reporting from Iraq.

And later in the program, we're going to be talking to Guy Rider of the International Labor Organization who will give us the perspective from the

Syria Donor Conference in London wherein $10 billion has been pledged.


QUEST: The question is whether and how and where you spend that money and what really needs to be done. That's still to come on Quest Means Business.

Good evening to you.






more "Quest Means Business" in just a moment when the world's leaders are gathering in London and pledging $10 billion to try to help the Syrian

refugee crisis. And he'll be there for you when the rain starts to fall. Just let him

switch to old weathered tires first. Joey from "Friends" is joining "Top Gear."

Before all of that, this is CNN and on this network the news always comes first.

U.S. officials say there's evidence to show that a bomb was responsible for the explosion onboard a Somali airliner on Tuesday.

Investigators believe the terror group Al-Shabaab put it there. One person is believed to have fallen to their death through the hole that was blasted

into the side of the plan shortly after it took off from Mogadishu. A source familiar with the investigation tells CNN residue of military- grade TNT has been found. Sweden says its investigation into WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange will not be affected by a U.N. report on his detention.

According to the reports, the U.N. panel will rule on Friday that Assange is being held unlawfully.

He has been take refuge in Ecuador's embassy in London for more than three years to avoid arrest and extradition for questioning to Sweden about

allegations of sex crimes. An Italian student who disappeared in Cairo has been found dead. The 28- year-old man disappeared on January the 25th which is the fifth anniversary of the uprising that ousted the Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak.

The Italian government has demanded a full inquiry. The largest newspaper in the U.S. state of Iowa has called for an immediate recount of votes cast in Monday's Democratic caucuses.

The "Des Moines Register" says the vote was "a debacle" in their words. This was open to error. Hillary Clinton narrowly beat Bernie Sanders in

the state by less than half of one percent. Democratic Party officials in Iowa say they will not hold a recount.

(AUDIO GAP) leaders promised to hand over $10 billion to help Syrian refugee, hoping aid will succeed where diplomacy and military action have

failed. Nearly five years after it all began, the Syrian civil war has no end in sight and refugees are continuing to pour into Europe.

The British Prime Minister David Cameron said the world would stand with the people of Syria.


DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Today's conference has seen the largest amount of money ever raised in one day in response to a

humanitarian crisis with well over $10 billion pledged.


CAMERON: Today has been and is a day of hope, a day about saving lives, a day about building futures, a day about giving people the chance of a

future. The chance of a life.


QUEST: Now the money -- $10 billion - well let me take a look and see what's the various countries' pledge, where the money comes from and where

it's going to be going to. The United Kingdom - the United Kingdom - has pledged an extra $1.7 billion. That takes the U.K.'s total to $3 1/3rd billion.

Germany is now $2.5 billion, Norway $1.1 billion. If you take the E.U. out of the E.U. central budget completely, it's $2.2 billion

[16:35:08] The United States, quite a bit less actually. The United States has offered $891 million more and the UAE more than $135 million.

But of course the worry and the concern is that as the refuge - as the fighting continues and gets ever-more ferocious if that were possible at

the moment, so the refugee crisis that's ever worse for countries like Lebanon and Jordan.

Jordan alone has more than a million Syrian refugees within its border. And King Abdullah has said its country has reached its limit.

Aid alone is not sufficient. Our CNN's Jomana Karadsheh reports finding jobs and work for the refugees is one of the challenges whether in Jordan

or indeed whether anywhere that they have wandered.


JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A (Tukkies) family survive on U.N. handouts, food rations and the charity of others, but they can barely cover

their $300 a month rent. Cousins Abo-Hamed (ph) and Abuniun (ph) say life is tough but at least they escaped the bloodshed in Syria.

ABUNIUN (ph), SYRIAN REFUGEE, TRANSLATED BY KARADSHEH: If they could find jobs in Jordan Abuniun (ph) says their life could change.

KARADSHEH: The majority of the 1.2 million Syrians in Jordan are like the Tukkies (ph). Urban refugees in cities and in towns across the country.

And according to an HCR, nearly nine out of ten of these refugees live under the poverty line.

But it's not just the refugees who are suffering. Jordan, a country that's worked to build its economy is now also struggling to cope.

MOHAMMED AL-MOMANI, MINISTER OF STATE FOR MEDIA AFFAIRS: This is a huge burden that puts pressure on all our socio-economic indicators and have put

tremendous pressure on our economy that is already suffering from level of poverty and level of unemployment and GDP.

KARADSHEH: While many Jordanians are welcoming of refugees, they're feeling the impact.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE, TRANSLATED BY KARADSHEH: "Young people are not finding jobs because there are Syrians who would work for lower salaries," this man


UNIDENTIFIED MALE 2, TRANSLATED BY KARADSHEH: "The cost of living has gone up," this man tells us. "There's a competition over jobs and everything

like rent is increasing."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE, TRANSLATED BY KARADSHEH: "The Syrians are our brothers but everything is more expensive and the city is congested now,"

this woman tells us.

KARADSHEH: After years of dealing with the influx of Syrian refugees, Jordan says it wants to see a shift in the international approach to the

crisis, expanding beyond the emergency response of provide things like blankets and shelters to more sustainable longer-term economic solutions.

Jordan's taking a wish list to Europe. It includes requests like focused funding as well as access to a wider range of financial support to

stimulate Jordan's economy in addition to easing some of the restrictions on Jordanian exports into the E.U., hoping this would create more jobs for

Syrians and Jordanians.

It is important for the world to help host countries in order for these countries to help the refugees. Otherwise, if we don't deal with refugees

and in the least in host countries, we will have to deal with them in every other part of the world.

As we have seen, this crisis hitting the heart of Europe.

KARADSHEH: Jordan's message coming at a time when the world's worst refugee crisis in decades seems far from over. Jomana Karadsheh, CNN



QUEST: The International Labour Organization says it's pushing hard to try to get refugees into work. The director-general visited a refugee camp in

Jordan last week. Guy Ryder now joins me from London.

QUEST: Good to see you. We've talked earlier this week on other issues, Guy, but now obviously we're talking on this serious question.

What is it the ILO believes can be done to help the refugees find work but as the same time as you heard in Jomana's report, not at the expense of the

indigenous population where unemployment's high to begin with?


But it's not just the ILO. I think one of the key messages from the conference in London today in addition to the ongoing priority of

humanitarian protection. There were two new elements - one is this issue of labor markets and finding refugees pathways into the labor markets in the host countries.

And the other, by the way, was education. But there is a consensus out there that in current circumstances, it's absolutely accepted by all

parties I think, including the host countries and the international community that we do have to find these pathways into labor markets for

these refugees. Now, how do you do that in labor markets which are pretty stressed as it

is? You know, unemployment in Jordan is between 12 and 13 percent. [16:40:01] And without putting Jordanians and Syrians into situations of

competition, let's take the example of Jordan. I think there's two big ideas out there.

One is to use and to expand the industrial zones which already exist in Jordan, very much linked to the garment and textile industry, particular

marketer access --

QUEST: Right.

RYDER: -- to U.S. markets. Jordanians want to see that expanded to European markets.

And the other piece is to simply put in place something which is tried and trusted, which are employment-intensive work programs and investment


QUEST: Whoa, whoa.

RYDER: At least to work in the short term.

QUEST: Right, now employment-intensive work programs, that of course government funded, centrally funded or indeed internationally funded.

The bill for that goes on to, if you like, onto the aid budget of other countries.

Now look, I am not suggesting for a moment in any form of naivete that there is an easy, simple solution here. But I am suggesting that the

complexity means that there is no obvious solution.

RYDER: Look, I agree with you on the complexity and I worry sometimes that the idea with sufficient investment, sufficient market access, get on with

it, it'll work automatically is over simplistic. Our experience is that you really have to engineer the labor market access very, very carefully. We've been working in the industrial zones in Jordan

already for nearly a decade. And by the way, the people working those zones are not Jordanians, they're by and large Southern Asian people - Bangladeshis and Sri Lankans.

Now there is a potential to create jobs and to move Syrians into these - into these areas. But you're quite right to point to the complexity.

This is not a problem -

QUEST: Right.

RYDER: -- which is insoluble, it's not impossible, it's not an illusion, but it needs to worked at extremely well.

QUEST: So where will we look here, Guy? You know, you take the zones - fine. You put the Syrians into the zones and you risk displacing the

Southeast -- South - Asians who are working there at the moment. You take the migrants that have gone up into Europe that could be a depressing force on wages and terms and conditions of living - of

employment - in Europe. You take those in the camps - I know you know this - but I suggest that donor conferences don't solve it.

RYDER: No, but you need the money nonetheless. What can a donor conference do? It can put up the money and can point out the

particular/political (ph) objectives. And then we have to follow up and make this happen. Now, we have to start from a realization - take the tomplican (ph) of Jordan - most Syrian males who are living outside of the refugee camps -

and it's a vast majority of them - are working already. They're working in agriculture, they're working in construction and of

course they're working informally. Wage levels are already going down in Jordan. Conditions are being

undermined already by this informal labor market. Seventy percent of kids who work in Jordan are Syrians. So we really do

have to transit to legal avenues -

QUEST: Right.

RYDER: -- to get these people working in an orderly and controlled way. Now, I do believe it can be done and I do believe there are ways to combine

the interests of local workers with those of Syrians. It will take investment, but it will take some very hard work at designing things -

QUEST: Right.

RYDER: -- that have a long-term chance of succeeding.

QUEST: Guy Ryder who is joining us - who joined us - from London. Thank you, sir, for joining us. Thank you.

And it's worth just pointing out that hopefully nothing we've - our discussion now with Guy Ryder - just makes it clear the difficulty and the

complexity of the situation. Hillary Clinton is being very careful about the kind of people she's seen with these days. So here's a tip - if you're a hedge fund manager for

former secretary of state is probably too busy to see you. We'll explain who she will and who she won't see and why. It's "Quest Means Business," it is a Thursday.


[16:45:45] QUEST: Hillary Clinton has postponed two fundraising events with hedge funds after criticism of her relationship with Wall Street.

At last night's CNN Town Hall with Anderson Cooper, the former secretary of state tried to defend her decisions to speak at events organized by Wall

Street banks which paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for her appearance.


HILLARY CLINTON, U.S. DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Look, I make speeches to lots of groups. I told them what I thought, I answered


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: But did you have to be paid $675,000?

CLINTON: Well I don't know, that's what they offered, so -


CLINTON: You know, every secretary of state that I know has done that.

COOPER: But that's (AUDIO GAP) runs for office and not running for an office (inaudible) - you must have known.

CLINTON: Well I didn't know - to be honest, I wasn't - I wasn't committed to running .


QUEST: Senior Washington correspondent Joe Johns is in Durham, New Hampshire where tonight's Democratic debate is being held.

Joe look, I remembered - I'm reminded - of Willie whatever his name was - the man, the bank robber - when asked why do you rob banks? He says,

'That's where the money is.' I mean, you know, you can arguably say why do you give speeches to hedge funds and banks? Because they're the ones who are going to pay.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Precisely right and this is for three speeches -- $675,000 for those speeches.

You know, there's two ways you can look at this in Washington. The fact of the matter is that people who are high public office holders, when they get

out of office, can claim huge sums to give speeches to one organization or another.

And this happened to be the financial sector. Perhaps more interesting though, is the fact that as of the end of December last year, the Center

for Responsive Politics reports to CNN tonight that Hillary Clinton's campaign received something like $18 million/$17 million plus $600,000 from

the banks - from the - totally -

QUEST: Right.

JOHNS: -- the financial sector. So this is a problem for her because of the appearance, and especially the Goldman Sachs connection, I think that's

significant and you have to point that out - because Goldman Sachs is seen by people on the progressive side as something of a boogie man that got hit

with a $5 billion fine from the Department of Justice and from state and local entities over their involvement in the mortgage crisis.

All of these things create a big problem for Hillary Clinton as she's on the campaign trail, particularly for people who are suspicious about the

financial sector.

QUEST: And Joe Johns joining us from New Hampshire. And it was Willie Sutton, Joe. Willie Sutton who was the bank robber -

JOHNS: Willie Sutton.

QUEST: -- Willie - I could see you - I could see you grasping trying to think which Willie - yes, Willie Sutton.

JOHNS: Yes, I was thinking of it. (LAUGHTER).

QUEST: They would say, 'Why did you rob banks?' 'Because that's where the money is.

All right, news just in - thank you, Joe. News just in to CNN - President Barack Obama is expected to propose a new tax that would add $10 to the

price of a barrel of oil in the budget plan he'll put forward next week. The tax would raise funds that would help develop clean transport of the future.

Michelle Kosinski - this has just happened - or we're just learning about this, thank you for coming up so quickly to talk to us about it.

Look, with oil at $30/$35 a barrel, a $10 tax is something like 30 percent. Even at $50 a barrel, it's 8 to 7 to 8 percent.

Does this proposal have legs?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely not. And the White House knows that. I mean, this is part of the President's budget

like you said and every year this happens. I mean, there's one element that, you know, this is his budget, so this is

in an ideal world. These are the priorities, this is how he would fund them, let's try some new things.

This is what the president wants. He knows that Congress isn't going to that. This happens every year. But this is also the last year of his

presidency, so he can get a little more creative. He wants to name all of those priorities that -

[16:50:05] QUEST: Right.

KOSINSKI: -- he's not going to be able to get to lay them out there. And even though the reality is it's not going to work out in the end, it's

an idea that now the White House has put out there, they've said they'd tried and, you know, this is something that could be taken up by the

candidates now and debate it. And it could down the line evolve into something realistic. And you know that big price tag there, the tax that would be on - and mind you this is

foreign oil coming in. So U.S. producers of oil would not be affected. It would just be attacks

on foreign oil paid for by the oil companies. The White House knows that if this were to happen, that those oil companies would then pass on some of those costs -

QUEST: Right.

KOSINSKI: -- to the consumer. But what the White House wants to show here and there's - and I want to call it an imaginary plan and an optimistic, you know, idealized plan in

their view. They want to disincentivize the use of oil, so that's why the large tax and they would use this money then to fund clean transportation in the U.S.

which is badly lacking in innovation to move forward, Richard.

QUEST: Michelle, thank you for that. That scotched it beautifully and put it to bed. Thank you very much indeed. Michelle Kosinski who's at the

White House. "Top Gear" has a new friend. Matt LeBlanc is joining the world's most popular motoring program after you've enjoyed a chance for a bit of

motoring yourself. We're going to motor along to Make, Create, Innovate.


QUEST: As a struggling actor back in the '90s, Joey Tribbiani) had his share of dodgy roles on "Friends." Now the actor who played him is joining

another of the world's most popular TV shows. CNN's Phil Black in London.


PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Matt Leblanc already has a special place in the history of the world's most popular car show. The fastest star in a

reasonably-priced car around the "Top Gear" track. The man next to him is Jeremy Clarkson whose sacking a year ago after a

violent moment with a producer set the scene for a hugely anticipated "Top Gear" relaunch.

And now the news - LeBlanc will be one of the show's hosts. Of course LeBlanc is world famous for this character, the slightly dim but sexually

potent Joey Tribbiani in "Friends."



BLACK: The BBC made the announcement with this image - LeBlanc tweeted, "I love the show, should be fun."

The man next to him this time is (Chris Evans), the British broadcaster who will anchor the new presenting line up.

Evans says he's thrilled to be joined by LeBlanc who he describes as "a life-long petrol head." The car (cred) will play a big part in deciding

how the anchor is ultimately judged in his new role. "Top Gear" became a world-conquering show through a special mix of serious car loving and outrageous silliness, mostly through the rapport of its

former hosts - Clarkson, James May and Richard Hammond. The LeBlanc announcement triggered a spirited conversation on Twitter.

Much of the reaction was positive, especially from some female fans who suggested the American will be slightly easier viewing than Jeremy

Clarkson. Phil Black, CNN London.


[16:55:02] QUEST: A petrol head indeed, and a "Profitable Moment" after the break.


QUEST: Tonight's "Profitable Moment," well very profitable when Martin Shkreli decided to raise the price of an AIDS drug by some 5,000 percent

and in an e-mail actually said a billion dollars would be made. But Shkreli who is being prosecuted for other alleged offenses unrelated to

that, a joint (ph) Shkreli spent his day on Capitol Hill at a hearing where he smirked and laughed and almost was contemptuous of lawmakers as they

beat him up verbally over what he had done. All so far so good in that he claimed his Fifth Amendment rights against self-incrimination. That of course as an American is his absolute right.

However, his hutzpah -- for there is no other word - to call the representatives, the elected men and women of the United States 'imbeciles'

no sooner than the hearing was over speaks volumes for what's really going on in his mind.

Contempt at the hearing, yes, vulgarities and insults afterwards. No wonder people have said that what we saw today was a very dark side of

capitalism, a sort of capitalism that even makes you want to wash your hands with disinfectant after you've touched it.

And that's "Quest Means Business" for tonight. I'm Richard Quest in New York. Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, (RINGS BELL) I hope it's