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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

New Hampshire Race; Democratic Debate. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired February 05, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS: Going to get us ready for the game on Sunday.

Guys.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: What about bets on Omaha? Aren't we still betting if Peyton's at Omaha (INAUDIBLE)?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Omaha, Omaha.

SCHOLES: There are -

BERMAN: (INAUDIBLE).

SCHOLES: If you can think of a bet, guys, it's there. You can bet on it.

BERMAN: We're betting you on. Andy Scholes, thanks so much, from San Francisco.

BOLDUAN: There you -

BERMAN: We appreciate it.

BOLDUAN: Thanks, Andy.

And thank you all so much for joining us AT THIS HOUR.

"Legal View" with Ashleigh Banfield starts right now.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

At any moment the president, Mr. Obama, is going to deliver remarks following the release of the January jobs report. That just came out a few hours ago and it shows that unemployment fell to 4.9 percent. And, yes, if you're wondering, that is the lowest rate in eight years, but there were fewer new jobs than they expected. They expected somewhat closer to 300,000 new jobs. We're going to bring you his speech and some of those details just as soon as he takes to that live mike. But there you go, 151,000 new jobs in the January jobs reporting this morning.

They're getting the flags ready, and the mike is ready to go as well. We'll take you there in just a moment. In the meantime, though, a lot of action. A little more than a weekend

away from the nation's first presidential primaries. And we're going to begin with a jaw-dropping reminder of just how fast a race can change and how pivotal every single contest can be. A brand new Quinnipiac poll of voters nationwide, a poll done after the Iowa caucuses, I will remind you, shows a Democratic race that is for the first time deadlocked effectively. Forty-four percent for Hillary Clinton, 42 percent for Bernie Sanders. That is not quite as close as Iowa, where Sanders finished 0.2 point behind Clinton. But these numbers, folks, are well within the poll's margin of error.

The Republican race, according to the Quinnipiac poll, is a three-man contest with Donald Trump nine points ahead of Iowa caucus winner Ted Cruz, who is essentially tied with Marco Rubio. No one else is even above the 6 percent mark. Most of the candidates, not surprisingly, are laser focused right now on New Hampshire where voters are casting their ballots on Tuesday. So here's the sprint map today.

Donald Trump plans a rally tonight in South Carolina, citing bad weather as the reason he canceled the lone event that he had planned for New Hampshire today. New Jersey Governor Chris Christie has made New Hampshire a second home effectively. At a town hall this morning in Dover, he said the stakes in November aren't just high for him but for the entire GOP.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Any party can lose two presidential elections in a row. It happens. We've done it before. Democrats have done it before. The place we don't want to be in is losing three in a row. We lose three in a row, you start to wonder about your relevance as a national party. When you lose three in a row, you allow the other party to really solidify their point of view in government. When you lose three in a row, especially this time, they could change the face of the Supreme Court for the next 20 years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And fresh off of last night's one-on-one Democratic debate, Bernie Sanders returned to a theme that he says most candidates don't even want to touch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I understand that politics, politicians don't talk about poverty. They don't talk about poverty for a couple of reasons. If you're a Republican, what you want to do is cut the programs that the poorest people in this country desperately need. You want to cut nutrition programs when children are going hungry. So that's why you don't talk about poverty. But the other conventional wisdom with regard to poverty is, poor people don't vote. What do I have to worry about poor people? I've got to worry about rich people who are going to make campaign contributions. Well, I think that concept stinks.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BANFIELD: His challenger, Hillary Clinton, is due to speak in Manchester just moments from now. That's why Jeff Zeleny is standing by live.

Just real quickly, those recent poll numbers that came out, the Quinnipiac poll, national numbers, they're just astounding. Bernie Sanders is leading her by a 2-1 margin.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ashleigh, I talked to the campaign's chief strategist, Joel Benenton, this morning. He dismissed that Quinnipiac poll. He said that the track record of that poll is not very good nationally and that they do not think that's right. But what they're more focused on, Ashleigh, is what's happening here in New Hampshire. I mean our own polls show that Bernie Sanders is up some 30 points. That, again, probably not the right number.

New Hampshire incredibly difficult to poll. Why? Because independents can vote in both sides. Forty percent of this state's electorate, independents. They can pick up a Republican ballot or a Democratic ballot. So some of these Bernie Sanders supporters may actually vote for a Republican next Tuesday. It's - it's very typical here in New Hampshire.

[12:05:02] But never mind the polls. Let's talk about what the candidates are saying. And last night we saw such an aggressive match between the two over who's a better progressive, over who's a member of the establishment. So that's what they are trying to do over the next closing four days here.

I'm at a Hillary Clinton event, as you said. It's an organizing event. She'll be here in just a few minutes trying to rally up her volunteers to go out and knock on doors because the bottom line is, regardless of what poll you look at, Bernie Sanders is well ahead here, and that's a problem for her, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Yes, I should - I should clarify. I called that the Quinnipiac poll. That was the CNN/WMUR poll that in that state that has her, you know, 2-1.

ZELENY: Right.

BANFIELD: But nationally it's always in the margin of error with the Quinnipiac.

All right, so let me move on real quickly to Flint, Michigan. That was not a place I was going to expect to hear anything about this early in the race, but she's going to head to Flint, Michigan, that's dealing with that water crisis. Is there - is it a national headline she's looking for?

ZELENY: Right.

BANFIELD: Is there something about Michigan that's very Democratic that she needs to deal with? ZELENY: Look, Ashleigh, I think she's been talking about flint,

Michigan, all along. What she's trying to do with this is, a, solve a problem. She's trying to present herself as someone who is interested in issues. It also gives her a chance to remind people of the narrative that she's been fighting for children her whole life. We saw her on stage at that debate last night saying that she worked for the Children's Defense Fund. That's why she's going to Flint, Michigan, to go fight for those children.

Ashleigh, I would not be at all surprised if we see a television commercial from her in Flint. Perhaps not in time for this New Hampshire primary, but coming up because that's where this is going. This is going to be a national race. From New Hampshire it goes on to South Carolina and Nevada. And by going to Flint, she's just trying to show, a, she's somewhat presidential, and, b, she's been fighting for children her whole life. So that is the reason that she's taking a bit of a New Hampshire detour. But the majority of the next four days, Ashleigh, will be a lot of New Hampshire time for Hillary Clinton and the rest of the Clinton family.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: All right, Jeff Zeleny, live for us in Manchester. Thank you for that.

I also want to talk more about the state of affairs with both races with CNN's senior political reporter Manu Raju and CNN political commentator and GOP strategist Ben Ferguson, and Democratic strategist and CNN political commentator Bob Beckel is with us as well.

All right, so, Manu, let me start with you and the Marco Rubio race. You've been following this. You've written extensively. He's climbing quietly, and it's not quite among his competitors. He's doing very, very well, and he's doing it in an unusual way these days - we would call this unusual - sticking to the script.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. That's really been Marco Rubio's mantra. Ever since running in Iowa, what he really does is running - he's running a very cautious, very disciplined, very repetitive campaign in which he is hitting on the key themes that he believes will resonate with voters wherever he goes. He sticks very, very closely to that stump speech, even using the same one-liners, same jokes everywhere. Folks still laugh at it. A lot of these voters, of course, have never heard this before. So this new material - this material seems new to a lot of voters. I had a chance to talk to some voters. They said, well, it's - it was new to me. So clearly he believes his message is working.

And the way that they look at this race, the campaign does, is that they - and other of his supporters say that they want a candidate who will not make mistakes. And they believe Marco Rubio is trying to make the case that he won't. He says to voters, I will not embarrass you if I am the Republican nominee. It's really almost an antithesis of Donald Trump. He's trying to show himself as a very disciplined candidate, whereas Donald Trump is the complete opposite, who will really say and do whatever is on his mind at that moment. So that's really one of the choices voters have here in New Hampshire as they head to the polls on Tuesday.

BANFIELD: All right, so, Bob Beckel, I want you to weigh in on something, if you would for me here. The fact that Marco Rubio is doing really well, that's a sneaky thing for maybe voters and maybe they haven't noticed it as much, but I'll tell you who's noticing it, Jeb Bush and Chris Christie, because there are reports that there's actual tag teaming between these two campaigns going on right now. Let me read you something from "The New York Times" from today. "The shared concern has even prompted the opening of a back channel. Members of the Bush and Christie campaign have communicated about their mutual desire to halt Mr. Rubio's rise in the polls. They've exchanged news articles that praise potential areas of vulnerability for Mr. Rubio. There's no formal coordination, the operatives stress, but rather a recognition of a shared agenda. We do have similar goals, an advisor to Mr. Christie said."

Bob Beckel, you have been in this game for a long time. Have you ever seen campaigns getting together like this?

BOB BECKEL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, not in New Hampshire. I've seen them in other place. But, you know, I've been in New Hampshire for seven presidential races, and I can tell you one thing about polls there, the longest four days in a presidential campaign year are the four days before New Hampshire votes. It is a state that people change their minds over the weekend. That's why there's so much tracking going on.

And I'll tell you the irony is, is that Sanders has got the bigger problem because of our poll. Thirty-one points up. He ain't going to get anywhere near that. And my guess is that if Hillary Clinton does what I think she can do, she can get under ten points.

[12:10:15] And now what does Sanders do at that point? He should have won bigger. That's what some people will say. But the real question about the Christie and the Bush effort is, there's only going to be three tickets punched out of New Hampshire and it's going to be Trump, and it's going to be Cruz, and it's Rubio is the other one, and they want to try to be in that mix. And they're not going to get there. They're too far behind. But right now they want to beat up on Rubio because that's the one ticket out to get to South Carolina and Las Vegas - I mean to Nevada.

BANFIELD: Yes, all right, Ben Ferguson, it was only a few months ago we expected to be talking at length about Jeb Bush and about his success in Iowa -

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

BANFIELD: About his success in New Hampshire and South Carolina and beyond, and that has not happened. And so yesterday - I'm sure it's for coincidence - we're seeing the big guns. And when I say big guns, I mean Barbara Bush. And I mean George W. Bush.

FERGUSON: I was going to say, family.

BANFIELD: He brought the family out big-time. FERGUSON: Yes.

BANFIELD: And I'll tell you, I was glued to the television set. When Barbara Bush is on TV, I stop and I watch. Others are saying that this is desperation. What do you make of it?

FERGUSON: Well, this is what I think Jeb should have done early on. Remember when his big campaign came out? It was just "Jeb!" And you're sitting there going, everyone knows you're a Bush. It just - just embrace it. Just embrace the Bush. Embrace your mom. Embrace your brother. And if he would have done that earlier on, I think it would have helped him because there's a lot of people I think kind of thought, who are you trying to be? You're not faking us out. We're not buying this that you're - somehow your independent own man. Your last name is your biggest asset. It's your biggest liability. You might as well just be who you are. I think it's a smart move to do this.

Unfortunately, though, I think it is too late. I think if he would have brought her out earlier and brought his brother out earlier, I actually think it would have helped him in this campaign.

BANFIELD: All right. Bob Beckel, real quick, I want to talk about Trump's big pivot. I'm getting whiplash from listening to his reactions to the latest news cycle in Iowa. Monday night he was conciliatory. By Tuesday morning, he was tweeting up a storm, accusing Ted Cruz of fraud and demanding a do-over. And then with Anderson Cooper last night, I'm over it. Actually, let me run the sound bite of what he said to Anderson about how he feels about what's been going on. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Look, I'm into New Hampshire now. It's just one of those things. It was sort of a lot of strange things. And, you know, I like ben Carson very much and he got pretty roughed up, frankly, although it affected me maybe more than Ben. But I'm so much - because I've been now here for two days. I'm so much into New - into this, into New Hampshire, that I just - I don't care about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I guess the question I have, Beckel, is what Trump are we going to see tomorrow night? This big debate tomorrow night. We're getting close to the contest. This has been back and forth in - I'm not sure about temperament. I'm not even going to ask about temperament anymore. I'm sick of that question. What's going to happen tomorrow night?

BECKEL: Well, I can tell you what's not going to happen is humility. Is Trump's going to get back to what got him here. And let me tell you one other thing about Trump. Trump's poll numbers in Iowa were off by a good six or seven points, which, in my view, was - had a lot to do with the fact that he dominated the press for so long. I will - I'd be willing to wager that Trump does not do nearly as well as his poll numbers in New Hampshire indicate, and I think there is a possibility, just a possibility, that Rubio could upset him.

BANFIELD: All right, Bob Beckel, thanks for that.

FERGUSON: I also think -

BANFIELD: Real quick, Ben. Real - close it up quick.

FERGUSON: Yes. I think you - there's one thing I can promise you, he will show up for this debate because he knows how much trouble that got him in by not showing up and showing that arrogance. A little humility afterwards. He got back to who he is. But he will show up and he will probably be going after everybody, just like he did from the very beginning, and his supporters will like him because he's getting back to what he was, which is being crazy Donald Trump.

BANFIELD: Ben Ferguson, love to have you. Bob Beckel, thank you. Manu Raju, great work out on the trail as well.

FERGUSON: Thanks.

BANFIELD: And a great piece on cnn.com as well about the Rubio campaign style.

Coming up next, the tighter the polls get, the more fierce and fact- challenged the debates seem to get, which is precisely why last night's Democratic showdown had our fact finders and reality checkers working overtime in search of the truth. You want it? We got it, coming up in just a moment.

And then just a few minutes from now we're expecting to hear from President Obama about the economy and the new jobs numbers that just came out in the last couple hours. That's coming up towards the bottom of the hour. We are standing by live. You'll get it just as soon as he's out in front of the mike.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:18:35] BANFIELD: Any moment President Obama is set to deliver remarks following the release of the January jobs report. And it's a good one. It does show that there were fewer new jobs than expected, but - and it's a good but - the unemployment fell to 4.9 percent, which is the lowest rate in eight years. Clearly he's going to want to make a big statement about that rate, and he's going to do that in just a few moments. You'll be live with him just as soon as he hits the microphone.

Meantime, with New Hampshire just days away and Bernie Sander holding a wide lead over Hillary Clinton in the latest poll there, like more than 2-1, it's fighting time. And as Sanders continues to attack Clinton on her record and whether she's a true progressive or not, last night during the Democratic debate on MSNBC Secretary Clinton told him that she has had just about enough of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Oh, I think it's time to end the very artful smear that you and your campaign have been carrying out in recent weeks and let's talk - let's talk about the issues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: The issues. Talk about the issues. We want to do our own fact checking as well with CNN's senior political analyst David Gergen.

All right, David Gergen, I did not expect to hear that tenor. I haven't heard that get that ugly up until now. It started to get a little tense. Certainly changed a little later on.

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

BANFIELD: But let's talk a little bit about the issues. And one of the issues that Bernie Sanders continues to bring up - or rather continues to bring up is that he does not bring up the e-mail issue. She's getting hammered in the press about it. It continues to be an issue on the campaign trail for her. But this is what was said about that particular issue live last night. Have a look.

[12:20:18] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: Now, we had a development in the e-mail matter today. When it came out that Secretary Powell and close aides to former Secretary Rice use private e-mail accounts, and now you have these people in the government who are doing the same thing to Secretary Powell and Secretary Rice's aides they've been doing to me, which is that I never sent or received any classified material. They are retroactively classifying it. I agree completely with Secretary Powell, who said today, this is an absurdity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Secretary Powell said it's an absurdity. Our verdict from our fact checking is that it's complicated when she says "I never sent or received any classified materials."

GERGEN: Yes.

BANFIELD: Help me get through this from two perspectives. The - why it's complicated and also why it becomes very complicated for her as a campaign issue.

GERGEN: Well, I think actually the more complicated it gets, the - probably the less impact it has on voters. And I think she was smart to raise the issue of Colin Powell and Condi Rice receiving them. Even though if you get into the complications, the number of emails that we're talking about with Secretary Powell that were sent to him by others that have been classified is like a handful. It's like 10 or 12. And in her case, you know, we're talking about 1,300 or so. And 22 of them have top secret material. There's nothing like that suggested in the Powell stuff. And in Condi Rice's case, the e-mails actually went to her staff. She never saw them, apparently, and there were a very small number in that situation too. Having said all that, Ashleigh, and the fact that Sanders has given

her a pass on this, I don't think is going to have a deep impact on New Hampshire or on the primary (INAUDIBLE).

BANFIELD: You don't, huh?

GERGEN: It's going to recur - if she's the nominee, it's going to come back in the fall.

BANFIELD: All right, let's talk a little bit about health care because one of the - one of the reasons I think Bernie Sanders is resonating with a lot of people is, he wants universal health care for all. And Hillary Clinton has said, we have Obamacare. Let's not scratch everything and start back from zero. This has been a bone of contention between the two of them. Let me play a moment from last night in this debate and talk about it on the other side.

GERGEN: Sure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am on the Health, Education and Labor Committee. That committee wrote the Affordable Care Act. The idea that I would dismantle health care in America while we're waiting to pass a Medicare for all is just not accurate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Just not accurate. So I don't understand then when - when he accuse Hillary Clinton of saying he's - you know, that - that she's being inaccurate. He does want universal health care and you would have to start from scratch, wouldn't you?

GERGEN: No, you - I think his point is, I think he's right on this. You would make a transition over. And, by the way, Ashleigh, the time that Obamacare being passed, there were a lot of people who supported Obamacare thinking that it would ultimately be a stepping stone to universal health care, the single payer system that Sanders supports. So it's not out - it's not so outlandish for him to say I'd like to move to that. In fact, that transition can be made.

Where I do think he's vulnerable, and she's been - Hillary Clinton's been making this point - he's much more vulnerable on how much his programs would cost. You know, they're through the roof. And he's put unrealistic assumptions out there about how much all this would cost. But anybody who's been looking at it with a more, you know, a less partisan eye has said, wait a minute, this is very expensive. How are we going to pay for all this stuff? So on that issue, I think he's very vulnerable.

BANFIELD: All right. I - one of my favorite parts of what I saw last night was the conciliatory tone between them. They're pretty good about that. They do get at each other. But there was this one moment where they were asked about effectively what they think of each other. I think the question was, you know, headed towards, would that be your VP candidate, that person standing next to you? Let me play that and about those two together and we'll talk on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: If I'm so fortunate to be the nominee, first person I will call to talk to about where we go and how we get it done will be Senator Sanders.

SANDERS: I happen to respect the secretary very much. I hope it's mutual. And on our worst days, I think it is fair to say, we are 100 times better than any Republican candidate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: David Gergen, I'm going to tap in your wealth of knowledge about the history of politics, modern politics in the United States. Is it true what Bernie Sanders just said?

[12:25:03] GERGEN: Yes, listen, he's going to support her in the end. If she's the nominee, he will support her. I have no doubts she'll seek out his -

BANFIELD: No, no, no, that's not what I mean, about the tenor and respect level between the candidates because Bernie sanders said --

GERGEN: Yes, what do you mean?

BANFIELD: Effectively, we may - we may be really tough on each other -

GERGEN: Oh, well, listen, I - I think there's an underlying respect.

BANFIELD: Yes. He says we may be really tough on each other -

GERGEN: Yes, yes.

BANFIELD: But at our worst, we are infinitely better - and I'm paraphrasing - than what we're seeing on the Republican side. Is that true?

GERGEN: Well, I think he absolutely believes that. And I think you'll find the same thing on the Republican side, that whoever gets nominated out of this crowd is going to get - like a Chris Christie, if he doesn't get there, is going to say, even if it's Marco Rubio he'll be 100 times better than the alternative, Hillary Clinton. They're united on that. But let me just, I - I -- Hillary Clinton -

BANFIELD: I don't know. David, I've got a - I've got to (INAUDIBLE) there.

GERGEN: The problem here is -

BANFIELD: I've been hearing words like "liar" and "fraud" and I mean there are a lot of very close (ph) and personal barbs.

GERGEN: Oh, yes. But, you know, they're going to - you know, that's the short term stuff. The fur is going to fly.

BANFIELD: Bubble boy. King of England. I mean - yes.

GERGEN: Look, I - in their case, politics ain't bean bag (INAUDIBLE) as, you know, been long said. And they're going to throw things at each other. But when this is over, they're going to smoke a peace pipe and they're going to show everybody. And that's the history of politics is that two rivals like this usually come back together in a public way.

What is more dangerous for her, if she's the nominee is, if this keeps going with all the fur flying, her - Sanders' people, his followers, are going to have a lot harder time coming over to her. He - they can make peace at the public level, but they're going to be a lot of folks who may be scarred out of this and may not, in fact, come out to the polls. And the - especially among the young. And she needs that. You know, that Obama part of the coalition was young and when women and minorities, Obama built a powerhouse for getting elected. And she needs the young, and they're going to Sanders in massive numbers right now. Will they come back to her? I'm not so sure. If this gets very angry, then it becomes a lot more difficult.

Can I just say one other word, though, Ashleigh, about issues.

BANFIELD: Yes, please do.

GERGEN: And that is, the issue they need to be keeping their eye on right now is the economy. And it's 151,000 jobs report. Yes, the number - the percentage of unemployed went down slightly, but that's a low jobs number, and there's real fear now this economy could slow down. We just saw a growth number 0.7 percent. The Democrats need a higher growth number coming into this campaign. It's really important for their campaign. So it's that issue they really ought to be pushing right now. How are we going to get growth back into this economy?

BANFIELD: Well, I'm glad you brought that up because we're actually watching a live microphone at the White House where the president is going to address that. It will be interesting to see how he finesses that message, David -

GERGEN: Yes.

BANFIELD: Because as you said, unemployment may be 4.9 percent, and that's a wonderful headline if you want to say it's the lowest in eight years, but a lot of the people are touting the other one, and that is that, look, the real unemployment, those who just stopped looking, is much, much higher.

GERGEN: Absolutely.

BANFIELD: And that's about 100,000 less than we were expecting. So there's always a - you know, you can you look at it two different ways.

GERGEN: And it's a lot lower than they expected and it's not an - it's not an acceptable number over time.

BANFIELD: All right, David Gergen, always good to have you. Thank you. GERGEN: Yes, thanks, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: All right, coming up next, over 100 firefighters and other first responders had to race into action in New York today after a massive and deadly crane collapse in lower Manhattan. We've got an update from the scene, but imagine, so much goes on over head in New York City. This is the last thing you want to see come crashing down over the course of several blocks. An update on that.

And then again, minutes away from now the president expected to talk about that jobs report and the economy. Will he venture into what this means for the candidates?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)