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Montel Williams Supporting Governor Kasich For President; The Similarities Between Bernie Sanders And Donald Trump. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired February 08, 2016 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:34:06] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: We are just past the bottom of the hour. You are watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin live here in Manchester, New Hampshire.

Call it the governor's last stand. Several Republican candidates need to do well here in New Hampshire including Iowa governor John Kasich. By the way, he is scheduled to speak live in any moment. What did I say? Ohio. I had Iowa on the brain because that's where I was last weekend. And one of John Kasich's supporter joins me now.

Montel Williams. Montel Williams, nice to see you.

MONTEL WILLIAMS, HOST, THE MONTEL WILLIAMS SHOW: Good to see you, Brooke. And thanks so much for having me on.

BALDWIN: OK. Why is the Ohio governor your pick?

WILLIAMS: You know, honestly, I have been thinking about this now for several months. I was at John Kasich's announcement when he decided to run and I haven't come forward because I was watching the field. But honestly, if you liken this field to nothing more than the playground of a day care center, most of the candidates look like children that are out there in the day care center. You have got two of the bullies over the corner trying to steal everybody's lunch money.

You have another on the wide who tricked the other kids. And then you have the counselor who comes out and says, kids, stop. We need to work together because once recess is over, we all have to be in the classroom together. I know that's a weird analogy. But if you look at what's going on, you look at Trump and Bush today, they're throwing insults at ear often.

[15:35:20] BALDWIN: Jeb Bush.

WILLIAMS: Jeb Bush throwing insults to these others as if, you know, this is something that we are really interested in listening to? But when you listen to John Kasich on Saturday night and he has shocked everyone in the party because he jumped eight points in two days. Now in second place. I'm going to tell you, you listen to the tenor of all the other candidates and all of a sudden their tenor softened. Listen to Donald Trump today. He is actually talking about how we are

going to come together. I haven't heard him say that in eight months. But he is listening to what Kasich is saying. He understands what Kasich said is resonating. And that's what I think America's going to start to understand.

You gave him a chance yesterday because he shocked even the media. He had more time on the air that he have to use in the beginning of the campaign. Today, Mr. Kasich has been on all day today and people are starting to hear the fact there is a candidate among all the den of separatism and deteriorating America. There is some week that is really that is reason above the chafe and I think it is John Kasich.

BALDWIN: So you say he is the adult in the room. I earlier called the back and forth between some of these other candidates third grade. You are going to place, you know, preschool, the point remains the same. But my question to you, though, would be, why do you think the governors in this race, Bush, Christie, Kasich, why do you think they haven't done better?

WILLIAMS: I don't believe that Christie/Bush have done better because they're running on platforms no one believes in. Let's be honest with you. The truth of the matter is, I think we're done with the Bush legacy. And I think Governor Christie can just stand in New Jersey and summarize the lies he's told. That's where his people are reaching it that way. I think when it comes to John Kasich, people are not just giving him a chance to listen.

You haven't heard him because the din's been so loud. We have been following Donald Trump, you know, ostracizing people and belittling people or following Cruz and Rubio. But all of a sudden, Saturday night, America heard a different tenure and a different voice from a Republican leader. A Republican of old school Republican leadership. One who has balanced budgets, one who has worked with the military, one who has worked with our federal government, one who has accomplished things that are tangible rather than a bunch of hype from the others. That's the reason people are starting to listen to him. And that is why he jumped the bomb ahead of the other governors.

BALDWIN: Done a lot for the economy creating jobs in Ohio, even tip of the hat from Governor Bush Saturday night to that point. But you know, if Governor Kasich does not do well, he said if he doesn't do well in New Hampshire, you know, come tomorrow, he could be out. So if he is, who would be your second pick?

WILLIAMS: I'm going to tell you. I think he's going to shock everyone. I don't think Donald Trump's lead in New Hampshire is as great as everyone thinks because you know for a fact, Brooke. You have been talking about it. He doesn't have the ground game. And the ground game is not there.

Governor Kasich has been on the ground in New Hampshire bouncing around everywhere. And I think tonight if you see in less than two days he jumped from four to 13 percent. He may jump to 16 or 17 percent. And if Donald loses the votes that I think he is not going to get, we may have a shock him more. So I'm not worried about the governor actually winning tomorrow. I think he may take it all. And if he comes in second, that will even clearly demonstrate to the rest of the electorate out there and the rest of the people out there that there's a real voice in the race and let's start to pay attention.

BALDWIN: Montel Williams. I know a lot of people listen to you. So what you are saying is significant. We will see how Governor Kasich does tomorrow here in New Hampshire. Thank you. Thank you, my friend.

WILLIAMS: Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for daring the cold.

BALDWIN: I got this. I got this. You should see my snow boots.

Coming up next, why Bernie Sanders matters. We will talk to the author behind a new biography of the presidential candidate. Why he says Bernie Sanders is actually comparable to Donald Trump more so than any other Democratic candidate on one issue specifically.

We will be right back.

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[15:43:32] BALDWIN: As Bernie Sanders rises in the polls, one man who is not surprised is author of the book "why Bernie Sanders matters." He is Harry Jaffe. He joins me from Washington.

Harry, welcome.

HARRY JAFFE, AUTHOR, WHY BERNIE SANDERS MATTERS: Thank you so much. Yes, it's a big surprise to me, voters, my friends down here, Bernie Sanders does matter.

BALDWIN: You followed him for a couple of years. Little did you know perhaps he would have such the following leading into this presidential nomination contest. Let me begin with one point you make in your book. I feel questioning what kind of socialist he is. You liken him more to Donald Trump than fellow Democrats. Tell me why.

JAFFE: Well, he is more a populist in American history than he is a socialist. You know, I think of Teddy Roosevelt. I think of (INAUDIBLE) LaGuardia. They always championed the little guy against the wealthy. It was Teddy Roosevelt who was the, you know, the big bank buster back at the turn of the century. And as weird as it might seem, Donald Trump is also somewhat of a populist. They just had different bad guys, if you will. I mean, Sanders is, you know, the wealthier to wealthy. And Donald Trump is, you know, he says the little guy is getting pushed around too much by, I don't know, immigrants, not getting a fair shake. It's the not getting a fair shake that brings then together.

BALDWIN: What about Bernie Sanders in the '50s and 60s? You know we talk a lot. He was talking to Anderson in our town hall about when he was arrested trying to, you know, desegregate University of Chicago housing. Where did this, you know, passion for justice come from from this young, you know, Jewish kid in Brooklyn? [15:45:] JAFFE: Well, I mean, it's a great question. He grew up in

Brooklyn at a time when there were a whole lot of leftist radicals in and around where he grew up. A whole lot of trade, unionism, you know, (INAUDIBLE), and communists quite frankly. Now, he wasn't part of that but I think it kind of imbued him somewhat. When he gets to the University of Chicago in 1960 and 1961, he isn't the center of, you know, the civil rights movement, the center of the anti-war movement. That's when something kind of clicked within him and he, as he said, he got most of his education in the basement of a library reading original texts about Freud and about, you know, by Marx and I think then he also took to the streets and he was able to, for the first time, actually see his activism at work.

BALDWIN: There is so much more in your book. I want to have you back. Harry Jaffe, author of "why Bernie Sanders matters," thank you. We will talk again, I promise.

JAFFE: Sure enough.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, is a bad debate performance enough to alter a primary election?

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SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And let's dispel once and for all this fiction that Barack Obama doesn't know what he's doing. Become Obama doesn't know what he's doing. Barack Obama doesn't know what he's doing.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: There it is, the memorized 25- second speech.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Marco Rubio, his rivals, they are pouncing. We will talk to former presidential candidate, Governor George Pataki. He is sticking by his endorsement of the Florida senator.

Keep it here on CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin live in Manchester, New Hampshire.

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[15:51:03] BALDWIN: What the campaign trail gives, it can just take it away. Take a case of Florida Senator Marco Rubio who is riding high coming out of Iowa with a third place win and then Saturday night's debate happened here in Manchester, New Hampshire, with Senator Rubio repeating the same points over and over and Chris Christie quick to point that out.

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RUBIO: And let's dispel once and for all this fiction that Barack Obama doesn't know what he's doing. He knows exactly what he's doing.

Let's dispel with this fiction that Barack Obama doesn't know what he's doing.

Here's the bottom line. In notion that Barack Obama doesn't know what he's doing --

CHRISTIE: There it is. There it is. The memorized 25-second speech.

RUBIO: Well, here's the response. I think anyone who believes that Barack Obama isn't doing what he's doing on purpose doesn't understand what we're dealing with here. This is a president -- this is a president who's trying to change this country.

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BALDWIN: Let me bring in former New York governor, George Pataki, dropped out of the Republican race for president in December.

Governor, thank you for coming through.

GEORGE PATAKI (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you. Good being with you.

BALDWIN: All right. Marco Rubio is your guy.

PATAKI: He's my guy.

BALDWIN: Despite what happened Saturday night on that stage?

You know, I don't think it's as bad as the media makes it out to be. He was focused on the fact that we need to win the next election because the Democrats, not just Barack Obama but Hillary and Sanders are trying to fundamentally transform America. They are trying to make us dependent on governor instead of our own abilities. And that's not American. That's what not what Senator Rubio believes and it is not what the American believe.

BALDWIN: But what Chris Christie was pointing out, I mean, days waiting into the speech, boy in the bubble, canned speeches, talking points. I mean, doesn't he have a point?

PATAKI: Marco Rubio has an outstanding record of leadership. He did a tremendous job in the vast majority of debates. The voters are saying this. Let me tell you one thing. I believe he is going to be the next president of the United States. The American people want someone who will keep us safe. That's Marco Rubio. They want someone who isn't an insider in Washington but can get things done. He did defunding the Obamacare unlimited exchange funding and helping to go after those who were responsible for the VA crisis.

BALDWIN: You can name all his accomplishments, but why is it when Rick Santorum drops out of the race and throw his support behind Marco Rubio and goes on a morning talk show. And live on TV, multiple times her was asked can you name an accomplishment, nada.

PATAKI: I can't speak For Rick Santorum.

BALDWIN: But why do you think that happened? PATAKI: Ask Senator Santorum. But I think the American people as

they get to know Marco Rubio are going to know that he has been very effective not just in the Senate but as a leader in the house in Florida and I believe he'll be the next American president.

Brooke, let me just tell you one thing.

BALDWIN: OK.

PATAKI: We have to bring Americans together. You know, it is easy to criticize. It's easy to attack. Marco Rubio brings us together not just as Republicans but as Americans. He has a vision for our future. It's what America needs.

BALDWIN: You have served the great state of New York as governor.

PATAKI: Yes.

BALDWIN: You have been executive of the state.

PATAKI: Yes.

BALDWIN: We have three straight executives running for president. Why do you think they wouldn't make better candidates than Senator Rubio?

PATAKI: Because of their vision and their record. Marco Rubio has a vision and not only a vision, the most important thing to me, is keeping us safe. Marco Rubio has outlined a strategy how we're going to deal with ISIS, how we're going to deal with Syria, how are going to rebuild our military. Ad Brooke --.

BALDWIN: In general do you think governors make better presidents?

PATAKI: It depends on their record. I mean, like the person criticizing Senator Rubio there, he hasn't talked about his record because he can't run on his record. When you have six credit downgrades and you have the highest taxes and worst job performance in the country, you attack others. So governors a title.

I'm proud of what I was able to do as governor. But it depends on what you have done and what your vision is. And when you look at what you have done and what the vision is, Marco Rubio is the guy America needs.

BALDWIN: Obviously Jeb Bush will disagree. He says, listen. He was just talking to Dana Bash a little while ago saying Marco Rubio is a friend of mine, but look what I did with multiple hurricanes hitting my state, natural disasters, what I have done with - for schools, government employees, the economy. And what Marco Rubio has done, it's like totally apples and oranges.

[15:55:00] PATAKI: It is apples and oranges. I think Marco Rubio has done a better job. I think he has been a leader in the Senate at a time when there's horrible partisan divide. He was able to bring people together and get things done. And I think he can do that for America. And I think he can do that for America. He is the type of young leader who inspires people like me and I believe not just Republicans but Americans with a vision, we're all in this together on how we can be safe and confident in our future.

And by the way, Brooke, I was governor on September 11th. So when it comes to keeping America safe, this is personal to me. And I have listened to all the candidates. Marco Rubio has the best ideas, the best record on this, and I believe will be the best president.

BALDWIN: Governor, thank you.

PATAKI: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Thanks for swinging by out CNN set here in beautiful Manchester, New Hampshire. I appreciate it.

PATAKI: With the snow coming down outside.

BALDWIN: I love it. I cannot wait to go outside. I cannot wait.

Coming up, the final countdown to New Hampshire. Donald Trump and Jeb Bush, as we have been reporting, getting increasingly personal in their attacks hours before the first votes are cast here in the granite state. We have more on that coming up. You're watching CNN.

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