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Dr. Drew
Johnny Football Accused of Beating His Girlfriend; Real Housewife Breaks Silence About Life in Prison; Deputy Caught on Tape Smacking Handcuffed Teen in the Face. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired February 09, 2016 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTPE)
[21:00:15] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST OF "DR. DREW" PROGRAM (voice-over): Tonight, an NFL Quarterback is in big trouble. He is accused of beating
his girlfriend and threatening to kill her.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (via phone): She said her boyfriend assaulted her.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PINSKY: Plus, a real housewife breaks her silence about life in prison, her tax troubles and what is next for the Giudice family. Let us get
started.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
PINSKY: And, Johnny Manziel, the troubled NFL Quarterback allegedly, not just beat his girlfriend, kidnapped then beat her and beat her so badly, he
ruptured her eardrum. Manziel apparently became irate because God forbid, he questioned him -- well, she questioned him about another woman that had
caused them trouble. This now is a reenactment from her affidavit obtained by CNN by the affiliate KTVT. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (audio reenactment): Still being restrained, respondent led me down the back stairway to the valet, presumably to take
me to my car. Although, I did not want him to take me to my car, he would not take "no" for an answer. When we got to the valet, I was crying and
beg the valet, "Please do not let him take me. I am scared for my life."
The valet replied, "I do not know what to do," and proceeded to let respondent literally throw me in the front passenger seat of his car. As
respondent was backing out of the parking spot, I jumped out of the car and ran across the street and hid behind some bushes.
He flipped a U-turn and pulled right into where I was hiding. He grabbed me by my hair and threw back into the car and got back in, himself. He hit
me with his open hand in my left ear for jumping out of the car. I realized immediately that I could not hear out of the ear and still cannot
today, two days later.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PINSKY: CNN not able to independently authenticate this document. A judge has granted his ex, that woman, who is quoted there, has granted her a
restraining order, yet no charges have yet been filed.
Joining me, Samantha Schacher, "Pop Trigger" from Hulu.com; Donna Dannenfelser, Psychotherapist who counseled NFL players. Her life and work
inspired the USA Network show "Necessary Roughness"; Kurt Schlichter, Attorney and conservative commentator. And Segun Oduolowu, Entertainment
Journalist. Sam, this is not this guy`s first run-in with the law and certainly not his last, I suspect. Something happens before.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HOST OF "POP TRIGGER" ON HULU.COM: No, absolutely. It started back in college, Dr. Drew. So, in 2012, he was charged with giving
a fake I.D. to a police officer after a fight. In November of 2014, he was involved with in another fight, this time with a fan at 2:30 in the morning
at his hotel. No charges were filed.
Then in October of 2015, cops were called when Johnny Manziel and his ex- girlfriend were seen at the side of a road. A number of eyewitnesses called into the cops saying that they were fighting on the side of the
road.
PINSKY: Same girl?
SCHACHER: Ex-girlfriend. I believe yes. It was the same girl.
PINSKY: Is this -- I want to ask the control room. Is this the one we have the footage of out there? Can we show the footage of the fight on the
side of the road? Anybody in there can help with this? Let us go to that if you can. Finish up with what you are saying, Sam.
SCHACHER: Yes. No charges were filed there too despite a number of the eye witnesses. And, then last year around the same time, February of 2015,
he was voluntarily entered into rehab and that lasted about two months.
PINSKY: Clearly, that did not work.
SCHACHER: No.
PINSKY: But, let us look at what happened on the side of the road. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
JOHNNY MANZIEL, NFL QUARTERBACK WHO ASSAULTED HER EX-GIRLFRIEND: We got into a little bit of, hey you want to hang out with him, so you can see
some other girl. This, this and this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE POLICE OFFICER: So, this is between --
MANZIEL: Her saying this to me --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE POLICE OFFICER: OK --
MANZIEL: "You want to go see some other girls that is why you want to hang out with him." Blah, blah, blah --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE POLICE OFFICER: OK. What happened today? You guys were obviously in this car?
COLLEEN CROWLEY, MANZIEL`S EX-GIRLFRIEND: He is like, "I do not know." He hit me a couple times.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE POLICE OFFICER: While you were in the car?
CROWLEY: Yes, but I do not want to -- please do not make me go inside. Please. Please do not.
(CROSSTALKS)
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PINSKY: All right now, listen. You have heard me say that I have an infinite patience for people with substance and alcohol use. But, because
someone is an addict, it does not excuse domestic violence.
You know, Mike Catherwood is on this show many, many times has said a billion times he used lots of drugs and never had the inclination to beat
up his girlfriend. There is something else going on here, above and beyond alcoholism and addiction. Donna, I am wondering if you have a take on
this.
DONNA DANNENFELSER, FORMER NFL PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, the first thing that comes to mind is, do we have concussions? We have concussion --
PINSKY: In him.
DANNENFELSER: In him.
PINSKY: So, could it be the chronic repetitive injuries type stuff?
DANNENFELSER: Yes, because you are right. There are a lot of people that have addiction problems but they are not beating their girlfriends.
PINSKY: Right.
DANNENFELSER: So, do we have a situation where we have a concussion situation.
SCHACHER: Concussion or inflated ego?
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Well, Segun is well for that. Let us hear what he got to say.
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST: Yes. I am flabbergasted. I am sorry. That was the probably the worst diagnosis I have ever heard.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: No, it is not.
ODUOLOWU: I will tell you why, because --
PINSKY: I will defend her on that.
ODUOLOWU: No, because he is 22 years old and he has a history of bad behavior. He is the poster child for the affluenza. He comes from Texas
oil money --
PINSKY: If you want to talk about a bad diagnosis, Segun, stop it.
ODUOLOWU: No, no, no. Texas oil money --
PINSKY: That is a terrible diagnosis.
ODUOLOWU: Texas oil money. He was in trouble in college. He would show up to practices drunk. The Cleveland Browns, themselves, are sort of
hiding whether or not he showed up to practice drunk. So, to say that there was a concussion, no concussion --
PINSKY: She is not saying concussion --
ODUOLOWU: He is putting his hands on women and we are trying to find a reason to let him off the hook.
[21:05:02] PINSKY: No. No, Segun. We are trying to explain how this could be something more than --
ODUOLOWU: He is a bad dude.
PINSKY: Wait. Let me go back to Donna, first.
DANNENFELSER: I am not saying that is an a cause. I am just saying let us take a look at that. Let us face it. This kid has been -- he was the
biggest star at Texas A&M. OK? The biggest star. He gets into the NFL. And, you know what? He is not the biggest star anymore. He is not even
first string quarterback anymore.
ODUOLOWU: OK. Stop calling him a kid. He is in his mid 20s. Like let us stop calling him a kid, first.
KURT SCHLICHTER, ATTORNEY, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Exactly. Exactly. I led kids of 17 and olders, a platoon leader in desert storm. Look, I am a
military guy. I know guys with traumatic brain injury and they do not all beat up their wives.
There is something else going on here and I think I know what it is. I think I can diagnose it. It is footballitis. It is a culture of the
football star, where these guys are treated like petty Gods and they can do whatever they want and it needs to stop.
PINSKY: OK. So, now you are the perfect person to comment on this. You have been involved with these athletes for a long time --
DANNENFELSER: Yes.
PINSKY: -- in their psychological sort of crisis.
DANNENFELSER: Yes.
PINSKY: Is there something going on here where they are narcissistically reinforced and there is sort of a narcissism that -- I do not believe in
situational --
SCHLICHTER: Cam Newton.
(LAUGHING)
ODUOLOWU: Cam does not put his hands on people. Let us not do that. Cam gives footballs to kids.
PINSKY: You are right.
ODUOLOWU: Let us not compare these two. That is not fair.
PINSKY: You are correct nor do all narcissists engage in domestic violence.
DANNENFELSER: Yes. And, people that engage in domestic violence are not narcissists, but there is something else going on here. Absolutely,
correct. Now, let us talk about the alcohol. OK? He has an addiction.
PINSKY: Yes. He is an alcoholic.
DANNENFELSER: He is an alcoholic.
PINSKY: Go on. That is right.
DANNENFELSER: And, he said he was an alcoholic. He has gone into the facility to be treated for alcoholism, which obviously did not work. OK.
And, now, he is hitting his girlfriend, but there is also something else going on. He is not the star anymore.
He is not the star of quarterback. He was supposed to go out there and he was supposed to give the fans this great exciting football legend stuff,
and it did not happen. We saw a little bit of a spark when he goes out there, but it does not happen.
PINSKY: So, what do we call that? Depression?
(CROSSTALK)
DANNENFELSER: I think --
ODUOLOWU: Cry baby.
SCHLICHTER: Whiner.
SCHACHER: To the depression, though -- to the depression, the dad has stated to everybody, actually, that will listen that he -- you want to hold
off on that?
PINSKY: I think I got the statement.
SCHACHER: OK.
PINSKY: Let me read it for you if you, guys, can put it up there for me. It is actually a rather serious statement. We -- although we are having a
conversation, you know, we are not exactly being flattering to this guy. The reality is the father is concerned that this kid will not survive.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: Will not see his 24th birthday. Here it is. This is the father, the day after the incident. He said that his son, Johnny needs to get back
into treatment. His son refused to do so. The father told the newspaper reporter quote, "I truly believe if they cannot help him, he will not live
to see his 24th birthday." And that is --
SCHACHER: He also --
PINSKY: Listen. I hold him to have potentially fatal disease.
SCHACHER: But he also worried about him being suicidal and it does not help. And, I watch Johnny Manziel post on social media, party with
champagne and doing things that are not honorable. And, guess what, you read his feed and people celebrate him. People validate his behavior, so
he is doing a lot of behavior to get this validation --
SCHLICHTER: I got to say --
PINSKY: I am going to Kurt -- but that is the stuff you are talking about --
SCHLICHTER: Yes, I got --
PINSKY: You are glorified for bad behavior --
SCHLICHTER: Exactly. I got to say, I am a lot more worried about his girlfriend --
SCHACHER: Yes.
SCHLICHTER: -- than him making the choice to hurt himself. You know --
PINSKY: Her safety.
SCHLICHTER: Yes. Exactly.
PINSKY: I think she is --
SCHLICHTER: Well, let us hope. But, what about the next one? Because he is a football star. Even though he is not top flight anymore, he is still
going to have an endless line of vulnerable women and he is a football player who is hitting them. Intolerable.
PINSKY: Donna, have you dealt with any cases like this? Can you think of any or can you talk about anybody --
DANNENFELSER: I cannot really talk about anybody.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Yes.
DANNENFELSER: But this is not -- domestic violence in the NFL is not uncommon. Remember last year --
PINSKY: So, we know that. So, there is a dirty little secret in the NFL.
DANNENFELSER: Yes. That is correct.
PINSKY: And, again, as Kurt would say that he puts that on football, you are saying maybe some of that has to do with repetitive brain injury.
Maybe.
DANNENFELSER: Maybe.
PINSKY: Some has to do with alcoholism.
DANNENFELSER: Alcoholism.
PINSKY: Some has to do with narcissism, but there is something more.
SCHACHER: Yes.
DANNENFELSER: There is some depression. If he is saying, "I want to kill myself," this is despair. The scary thing is he has not only said he wants
to kill himself. He also made a statement that he would kill his girlfriend, too. I mean this is a kid in a lot of trouble.
ODUOLOWU: Can you stop saying kid? Can we not look at the father`s statement, where he says they get him help? Who is the "they"? You are
his dad. And, you are saying they should get him help. That is the underlying issue.
SCHACHER: Wait. His --
ODUOLOWU: He has never been discipline. And, we are sitting here giving - -
SCHACHER: Stop, stop, Segun. His dad --
ODUOLOWU: His dad --
SCHACHER : Hold on.
ODUOLOWU: His dad said they get him help.
SCHACHER: But his dad -- OK. But, let us say it accurately. His dad tried to get him help a number of times. He has had recently checked him
in to a psychiatric facility and Johnny Manziel walked out.
ODUOLOWU: You are passing the buzz.
SCHACHER: Let us just not -- You do not know the details about the father yet. So, let us not bash the father until we know the details.
PINSKY: Sam, I agree, we do not need another victim of this behavior, meeting his family of origin, his parents. He is an adult. You cannot
make somebody get better with an addiction. You cannot force it. So, dad appropriately is saying he is helpless, I hope somebody is able to reach
him and get to his aid.
[21:10:00] But, people often time with alcoholism have to sink to a very deep bottom. And, at least that is going on here. What I am making the
case for is I think there is something more. You will hear the 911 call from a neighbor, who heard this fight, the confrontation, between the two.
And, later, a "Real Housewife" star, who is out of prison speaks publicly for the first time about her ordeal. You will hear that, we are back after
this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE CALLER (on the phone): I am calling because one of my neighbors, I heard her screaming, so I came down and she said her boyfriend
assaulted her. She cannot hear out of her left ear. And, she said her boyfriend left, and said he was just crying. She did not want me to call
you, but I think it is the right thing.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PINSKY: And, that was a 911 call from a neighbor. Johnny Manziel`s ex- girlfriend says now, he held her against her will, beat her, threatened to kill them both. Back with Sam, Donna, Kurt, and Segun. Now, Manziel told
TMZ the domestic violence, quote, "Never happened". He also said he is, quote, "Completely stable and never threatened to kill himself."
Now, before the break, we were talking about whether or not Manziel`s father was enabling or somehow culpable in some way. And, I would say at
this moment, no, but Segun, there was a chapter in his story that was a little less clear.
ODUOLOWU: Right. When Johnny Manziel was at A&M, he had shown up drunk to several functions for A&M and they threatened to bench him. And, the
father said, "If you bench my son, we will pull him from the school." And, they fought to allow him to play.
PINSKY: And, that was because the dad was so concern that his path, that his campaign, Heisman trophy not be interfered with by his psychiatric
problem. And, Donna, I bet that is the common thing.
DANNENFELSER: Well, it is and I want to mention something about the dad and the whole thing. He came from a very influential family out there.
And, if you look at the annual revenue that Texas A&M had before Johnny was on the gridiron there, it was $200 million.
After Johnny came on, it was $700 million. So, for that father to say, I am going to pull him, it was like "Whoa", you know. And, that is what
happens there, because he is well-protected. His say shenanigans that he is doing in the NFL, he did in college.
PINSKY: But, Kurt, is not that, that one situation of the money of being more important than a person`s son`s life.
SCHLICHTER: He is a not person. He is a product. And, that is what the football machine does. And, it creates people, who commit crimes, but does
not have to. Look at a guy like Peyton Manning.
SCHACHER: Right.
SCHLICHTER: By all accounts, a wonderful guy. I know people who knew him in college. He was wonderful then. It does not have to happen. And, we
as fans, those of us who are fans --
PINSKY: I am a fan.
SCHLICHTER: Need to stop tolerating.
PINSKY: There is something going on with the way the NFL manages the mental health of its players. I worked for the NBA briefly and I got sort
of saw what the services they have for the mental health services and medical services for the NBA players and it is spectacular. They will go
to the mat for their players. They do not care what they spend and how long it takes.
And, if they have to pull them out, they do. They do not tolerate a lot. And, they really worked with good professionals. I am not getting the
sense the NFL really does or if they do, they do it in a patchy way. Now, as it pertains to people getting mixed-up with Johnny football. Our own
Sam Schacher got mixed-up with him.
SCHACHER: Oh my God.
PINSKY: I want to remind people of that story. Sam, you want to tell us the story.
SCHACHER: And, I was in it --
PINSKY: I think I was in it, too.
SCHACHER: You were in that. And, I was hoping I would forget that story, because his fans, I was involved in a fake lawsuit where his fans, somebody
filed a lawsuit -- who is in jail, by the way.
PINSKY: Really?
SCHACHER: Well, he was already in jail when he filed the lawsuit for this guy.
SCHLICHTER: What?
SCHACHER: He is a frivolous lawsuit filer. He did one where he pretended to be Jodi Arias. So, clearly, he is a big HLN fan. And, he filed a
lawsuit under my name that I sued Johnny Manziel for $20 million for Johnny Meanziel is sending me penis pictures.
PINSKY: Ah.
SCHACHER: Which never happened.
PINSKY: How did I get involved with this?
SCHACHER: It said that you, me and Johnny Manziel had a three some. It was so embarrassing. I woke up embarrassed. I was in tears, because I did
not want to be associated with that, but his fans believed it until we could finally say, actually, this is the person that filed it.
And, his fans -- I had death threats. I had death threats for this frivolous lawsuit. So, it just goes to show that he will never suffer
consequences, whether he got pulled over. Charges dropped. Whether he was caught beating up his girlfriend. Nothing is getting taken care of.
Whether he showed up to the Browns drunk, "Oh, no, he has a concussion." So, you see even with his dad, you just brought that to my attention. He
never has to suffer the consequences and that is a problem.
ODUOLOWU: But, Sam, look at it this way with what Donna just said about the commodity that he is, $500 million. Do we think the NFL, which has
long had a history of hiding mental illness much to the detriment of its employees that are actually on the field battering their brains, why would
they care?
We are talking about the NFL here on HLN. This is not "Sports Center." This is Dr. Drew and we are talking about a sports figure. The NFL loves
this. This is big business for them, because they are still in the news cycle three days after the Super Bowl was played. They love it.
SCHLICHTER: Well, here is the thing. In a year or two, there is going to be another Johnny Manziel. And this guy, he is going to be in jail or he
is going to be dead or God willing, he will be get in recovery.
(CROSSTALKS)
PINSKY: Or --
SCHLICHTER: But, hang on. The NFL is going to move on.
PINSKY: Or an institution.
SCHLICHTER: Yes. And, there is new meat coming along the assembly line right now. And, as long as the fans tolerate it, that is going to keep
happening.
PINSKY: And, again, Donna, I am so fascinated with what your experience is. You have been with these people. You have been on the trenches with
these guys.
DANNENFELSER: Yes.
PINSKY: Go ahead.
DANNENFELSER: Yes. And, we can blame the NFL. We tend to do that. And, I just need to say this one thing. I mean, the NFL could give Johnny as
much support as is required. But you know, Drew, he has to be ready to accept that help. And, if he is not, which it appears that he is not,
nothing will help. And, so, we blame the NFL for that, when really we have to say, you know, maybe we should just let him hit the bottom.
PINSKY: I completely agree. And, the NFL would have to allow him to sink to that bottom as would his family. You cannot force people into recovery.
My fear in this case, though -- again, it is a very hard thing to do to watch somebody sink that low, but you cannot force people to get better.
[21:20:06] They have to be willing to participate. And, there is nothing anyone can -- there are things to be done, but if somebody who is being as
rejecting as he seems to be and there seems to be another problem here. I want to give him one sort of pass, which is that sometimes when people are
severe addicts, their personality function makes them look like a criminal or a sociopath.
And, by the same token, people who are kind of sociopath, the only time they really get better is when they have to, to save their life in
recovery. So, there is hope for him even if it is a personality problem here, which I think there is because of his violence and the way he is
treating women and the grandiosity and insolence. All the things we are talking about today, not great for this guy.
And, I hope that his denial is able to be penetrated by something or someone and that he does not get harmed along the way. Obviously, Donna
and I do not know him. We cannot say for sure what this is, but we have had a lot of experience and you can kind of see stuff at a distance. This
does not look good.
Next up, Teresa Giudice reveals to us what her life in prison was like now that she is a free woman. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMY ROBACH, ABC NEWS HOST: Did you know you were breaking the law? Did you know you were committing a crime?
TERESA GIUDICE, "THE REAL HOUSEWIVES" STAR: Definitely not. I did not know I was committing a crime. The government saw it differently. I got
sentenced. I got served time.
ROBACH: You had it easy. You went to Danbury. It is like being sent to the country club of jails. How would you describe your incarceration?
GIUDICE: It was no country club, trust me, at all. I mean there is mold in the bathrooms. There is not running water constantly. The showers were
freezing cold. It was hell.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That is Teresa Giudice speaking to ABC after almost a year in federal prison. Back with Sam, Kurt, Segun and joining us Anahita
Sedaghatfar, Attorney, Of Counsel to the Cochran Firm. Teresa says, she kept busy in prison that was not a country club, that she kept busy doing
yoga and Pilates. And, Anahita, my question is, was the punishment adequate for the crime?
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ATTORNEY, OF COUNSEL TO THE COCHRAN FIRM: Well, look, whatever you think of her, whether or not you think she got celebrity
justice; a lot of people are saying she only got a year and that was because she is a celebrity. I think, at the end of the day, she served her
time. And, you know, if there are fans that somehow like Teresa Giudice, is that how you pronounce the last name?
PINSKY: Yes. Yes.
SEDAGHATFAR: And, they are interested in her. Then, you know what, write a book, do your reality shows. Make money off of it. She is not going to
turn down money.
PINSKY: Kurt feels a little differently.
SCHLICHTER: Well, first of all, I am kind of devastated about the way she destroyed my illusions about hot women in prison. But, beyond that --
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Have you seen "Orange is the New Black?"
(LAUGHING)
SCHLICHTER: Absolutely not. I heard they were not hot. Look, I think there are a lot of issues here. The first is why we are sending somebody
to jail for a whole year for a couple hundred thousand dollars of income tax fraud.
PINSKY: What should have happened?
SCHLICHTER: I think we put people in federal prison for far too long for far too many things. It was non-violent crime. She made restitution. I
do not think six months --
PINSKY: Has she made a restitution?
SCHLICHTER: Yes. She made a restitution on initial part. Now, she has other stuff going on. There is some bankruptcy fraud going on.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHLICHTER: And, there is some other things going on, but I think we need to really look at how long we are putting people in jail -- some of these
non-violent crimes, because I think jail should be largely reserved in the long-term for people who are out there running around with axes chopping
people to bits.
SEDAGHATFAR: But I think the big part of it, though, was that she initially was not accepting responsibility until the end when she finally
decided to plead guilty. And, even now, if you listen to that interview, she still does not accept responsibility. She is like, "I did not know
what I was doing was wrong." I did not know what I was signing."
PINSKY: Would you not believe that?
SEDAGHATFAR: You know, I do not believe that. But, even if you do not look at it legally from a P.R. perspective, it is rubbing people the wrong
way. It is like, "Come on! You are not a victim. You pleaded guilty to felony fraud charges. Accept responsibility. Say I am sorry, I made a
mistake and move on."
PINSKY: Segun.
ODUOLOWU: Yes. I mean, it was a plea deal, correct?
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes.
SCHACHER: Right.
ODUOLOWU: So, first of all, I believe nothing of what she said. She, in her own words, said that she was doing yoga and Pilates, so that is a
country club, because most people that go to prison do not get a yoga instructor.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: But, to be fair, she is usually out in the courtyard lifting weights.
ODUOLOWU: Yes, pumping iron.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Yes.
ODULOWU: But, they are not doing downward facing dog and going back to --
PINSKY: It is insane.
SCHLICHTER: No. Maybe they are.
SCHACHER: I do not think they are in a large room with like yoga mats and listening to like Sotnam. I think she is in a four-inch cell and she is
using a towel and she is practicing yoga.
(LAUGHING)
ODUOLOWU: OK.
SCHACHER: And, at the same time, she is still separated from her children. That is hell. She still has her freedom removed from here. I am not a
huge Teresa fan, but I agree with you Anahita, she paid her dues. She should write that book. She should cash in. She is a reality star. She
is not Julia Roberts. And, I think that this in the end, people need to give her another shot.
ODUOLOWU: Are you -- You are serious?
SEDAGHATFAR: Blame society.
ODUOLOWU: You are serious.
SEDAGHATFAR: Blame society because there is a demand for that.
ODUOLOWU: She did something wrong.
SCHACHER: She paid her dues.
ODUOLOWU: Here is my thing, I have no problem with her trying to cash in, but do not sit there on T.V. and say, "Woe is me." You did something
wrong. That is how they caught Al Capone.
SEDAGHATFAR: She pleaded guilty --
ODUOLOWU: They caught Capone for tax fraud.
SEDAGHATFAR: Right. Right.
SCHLICHTER: When you plead guilty in federal court, you kind of have to admit having done what you did.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHLICHTER: You kind of have to go, "Yeah, I did it. Here is why, dah, dah, dah." It is not, "What?"
(CROSSTALK)
SEDAGHATFAR: And, that is what she is doing now. And, I think that is what is rubbing a lot of people the wrong way. This is genuine.
SCHACHER: Hold on.
PINSKY: This is the judge that sentences her, right?
SEDAGHATFAR: Correct.
PINSKY: Now, you know, our mutual friend, Mark Geragos, believes that --
SEDAGHATFAR: You are very good friend.
PINSKY: He believes there is something -- a new kind -- you said celebrity justice.
SEDAGHATFAR: Right.
PINSKY: He has made the case that since O.J. --
SCHACHER: He has given an example.
PINSKY: -- there has been a backlash where celebrities get a worse deal, because people are tired of celebrities getting off.
SEDAGHATFAR: Right.
PINSKY: So, celebrities get sort of -- they do not get a pass.
[21:30:00] SEDAGHATFAR: Disadvantage.
PINSKY: They get a disadvantage. They are going to get and make sure we get particularly as Segun is saying and Kurt is saying, when she does not
take responsibility, then we are going to slam her extra hard.
SEDAGHATFAR: I have seen it work both ways, but I think we can dispute the fact that that if you are a celebrity, you have money and that buys you the
best attorneys like myself and Mr. Geragos.
SCHLICHTER: Wow! Hello!
ODUOLOWU: Shameless plug.
SEDAGHATFAR: And, of course, my colleague over here.
ODUOLOWU: Shameless plug.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes. But, that is the reality, so I think you know and especially if you are talking about Southern California and L.A, we have a
lot of celebrities that go on trial. I think that it benefits people to be celebrities and being in trial --
ODUOLOWU: Crime is crime. Is crime a crime?
SEDAGHATFAR: -- They get the advantage.
SCHACHER: Hold on.
SEDAGHATFAR: But in terms of like how jurors, you know, feel and --
ODUOLOWU: No, but we are saying white collar -- Kurt said that white collar crimes are, "Oh, we put them in jail for too much."
PINSKY: Yes.
ODUOLOWU: She did something illegal.
SEDAGHATFAR: She pleaded guilty for felony.
ODUOLOWU: So, if a crime is a crime, serve your time. Do not get out saying, "I do not know what I did."
SEDAGHATFAR: Exactly.
SCHACHER: OK. You, guys, are also commenting to one little clip that we saw earlier. She has gone out and apologized. She has gone and said what
I did was wrong. She has gone out and said, "Listen, from this point forward myself and all women, all people in general, when you read
contracts, make sure or when you sign contracts, make sure you read it, make sure you educate yourself on taxes."
I am not saying that I do not think that she may be trying to like evade what she did. But, at the same time, you, guys, are pretending like she is
like, bump, bump, bump --
ODUOLOWU: Well, you are pretending you said --
PINSKY: But, hang on. Hang on, Segun. Sam.
SCHACHER: There is balance argument there.
PINSKY: Sam, let me follow on to what you are saying. In her book, Teresa calls herself, what she called an old school wife, who signed whatever her
husband told her to sign. So, what you are saying --
(LAUGHING)
SCHACHER: I believe that with her. I actually believe that.
SCHLICHTER: There is no life like that.
SCHACHER: Have you --
SEDAGHATFAR: First of all, it seems disingenuous, Dr. Drew. She runs businesses --
SCHACHER: Have you seen the show?
SEDAGHATFAR: But that is a reality show, you, guys.
ODUOLOWU: It is a show.
SEDAGHATFAR: She plays a persona.
ODUOLOWU: Come on, Sam.
SCHACHER: She is not the brightest bulb in the pack. She is not.
SEDAGHATFAR: But, you have to know where is all this money coming from? What papers am I signing? You do not have to be a college graduate to know
that at some point all this money is coming in. I mean something just did not add up.
SCHACHER: I am not excusing it. I am not excusing it, but girl, I am not surprised after seeing season after season after that show --
(LAUGHING)
ODUOLOWU: But, Sam, you do not think that statement, "I am an old school wife," you do not think that sets women back?
PINSKY: Yes.
ODUOLOWU: She basically said, "I trusted my husband."
SCHACHER: Of course.
ODUOLOWU: But, she does not get a pass for that.
SCHACHER: I am not giving her a pass.
ODUOLOWU: As a man, I am surprised that another woman is agreeing with her --
SCHACHER: I am not agreeing. Hold up, I am not agreeing with her.
ODUOLOWU: Shame on you, Sam.
SCHACHER: Segun, I am not agreeing with her.
ODUOLOWU: Shame on you.
(LAUGHING)
SCHACHER: I am trying to get you to hear where she is coming from, because I feel like your mind is made up and you do not even know --
(LAUGHING)
ODUOLOWU: I just do not forgive ignorance. I do not forgive --
SEDAGHATFAR: Right.
ODUOLOWU: Ignorance of the crime does not make the crime less.
SCHLICHTER: Look. It is very clear, she is not going to be working with Dr. Steven Hawking on a theory of everything. OK? She is not a genius.
But, she does need to take personal responsibility for what she did.
SCHACHER: Of course.
SCHLICHTER: And she did and she went to jail. Look. Here is the important thing. Celebrity justice, there cannot be any. There can only
be one justice. I do not care if you are rich. I do not care if you are poor. I do not care you are famous. I do not care if you are nobody.
Homeless, live in Beverly Hills, one justice the same for everyone.
SEDAGHATFAR: That is not reality. I am sorry, I disagree --
SCHLICHTER: But, that is what we have to insist on.
SEDAGHATFAR: But, that is not the reality.
PINSKY: And, I have to insist on getting out of here for a minute. We will keep this conversation going. I am completely in favor of one kind of
justice, but boy, if you watched, you know, "Making a Murderer" or any of those.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: And, there is a lot of stuff out there that leads us to believe that it perhaps is not that way.
Later, a deputy is caught on tape smacking a handcuff shackled teen in the face. And, there may be more to what the video shows, back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GIUDICE: I had a job in the kitchen. I wiped tables three days a week, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. That was my job. I got paid 12 cents an
hour. I spent at the commissary. My first paycheck was $1.60. The only thing they give you is toilet paper and maxi pads.
So, I just brought my essentials, but I have to say the girls are amazing there. Any time anybody new comes, we all help each other. You think
people are terrible that in prison, which is I totally do not feel that way now.
ROBACH: Was there ever a moment where you feared for your life?
GIUDICE: I was not scared.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That was Teresa Giudice just out of federal prison speaking to ABC. Back with Sam, Anahita, Kurt, and Segun. In 2012, I had the chance
to interview Teresa. I asked her why she agreed to be part of reality television. She was starting to get in trouble at that time. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GIUDICE: Well, what you see in our show -- you know, I can only speak for our show. What you see on our show is really happening, but I just want
everybody to understand, when I came on this show, I came on for like, with my friends.
And, I just thought they were going to follow us around, you know, just what we normally do, shop, go out to dinner. I did not sign up to be on a
show with my family, because I would have never done that and I would never, you know, trash my family on national T.V.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: It really is the interesting phenomenon of reality television. I cannot think of one couple, other than Ozzy and Sharon that have survived
reality television cameras in their home.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: So, it is -- people often -- I do not disbelieve her. It is possible she did not intend, but once the producers get their claws in to
you and say, "You are not going to be on next season, unless, unless."
SCHACHER: Now, she is tied into it, though, because now her husband is going away for three and a half years. This is her bread and butter.
PINSKY: That is correct.
SCHACHER: She needs to provide for her family.
SEDAGHATFAR: And, she said, though -- when she is going to prison, she said "No, I am not going to do reality T.V. anymore." And, of course, I
did not believed her. Again, she seemed to be very disingenuous and to say, "Oh, I would never do it with my family." Well, that is what is
getting ratings.
That is why she has become so famous, because she is acting a fool on television. She is flipping tables. She is cussing out her brother. I
mean this is actually kind of sad and I do not blame Bravo. I do not blame the book`s publishers, who ever that are giving her this platform, because
the reality is the public likes this. It is making money.
PINSKY: Not only does the public like it, evidently you do, as well, because you knew about the fight with the brother --
(LAUGHING)
SEDAGHATFAR: Dr. Drew!
[21:40:00] PINSKY: I did not know about it. So, well done, Anahita.
SEDAGHATFAR: I do, huh? You just told on me.
PINSKY: So, the public watches that show. I wonder who? Teresa explained that she did not tell her younger daughters she was going to prison. I
ain`t got a problem with this. Watch this from ABC.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBACH: Before you left for Danbury, you told your younger girls that you were going away to write a book. You did not explain to them that you were
going to prison. What will you tell them about their dad leaving? Joe is going to spend the next three and a half years behind bars. He leaves next
month. Will you tell them that their father is going to jail?
GIUDICE: No, we said, you know, "Mommy is going to go to work first." And, I told them that "Mommy was going to write a book and I had to live at
camp, which I call prison, you know, which is prison, obviously. And, I had to go through the experience and that is what mommy was writing about."
And, then we said, "When mommy comes home, then daddy is going to go to work."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I go to camp, the camp is named prison. We have a saying in our field you are as sick as your secrets. And, when family have those sorts
of secrets and people are not allowed to see the truth, it is not good for kids.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: Segun.
ODUOLOWU: Well, now, this ties my back into what Sam said about, "Oh my gosh and her daughters," like she is lying to her kids --
PINSKY: Yes.
ODUOLOWU: -- as if there is no social media, as if they are not living their lives out on television, like she has not created this world for them
then she is then pulling it apart. I find what she has done honestly to be, it is not really sick, it is more -- it is saddening. It is kind of
disgusting, because "I am going to go write a book." Who is she, Gonaguet? Like she disappeared to write like a book. I mean this is bad. And, the
fact that people are consuming this makes this, I mean, even much more tragic. It is hard to watch.
PINSKY: Segun.
ODUOLOWU: I do not even like it.
PINSKY: I would say that the real problem with it is us, the consumers.
SCHACHER: Uh-huh.
PINSKY: We are the problem.
ODUOLOWU: By any means.
SCHLICHTER: Wait. Hey, who is us?
SEDAGHATFAR: Throw me under the bus.
SCHLICHTER: It is Anahita.
SEDAGHATFAR: Thanks, Segun.
PINSKY: It is Anahita. Let us be fair. But, amongst -- if we really have a problem with the reality television and would like to see it changed,
would like to see it not be such a huge industry, do not watch it. Now, one last piece of tape from ABC news, Teresa says she did not miss her
glamorous life while behind bars. Take a look from ABC.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBACH: No makeup. No purses, fancy clothes. What was left when you were there in prison with all of that removed?
GIUDICE: It was Teresa Giudice, you know, the person that I am. Everything that you just said, I do not need any of it. I did not care
about the food. I did not care about anything. I did not care. I did not care about clothes, you know. I was fine. Not wearing makeup every day.
I just missed my daughters. They are my life. I live for them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Purple is the new black. I do not know.
(LAUGHING)
I am just saying. You know, I get confused of what her name is. I am not sure she knows who she is even in the outside world here. But, let us
leave this story. I want to get to next.
A teen in handcuffs roughed up by a sheriff deputy. We will show you that video. It is hard to watch. We need to understand why this happened.
That kid is shackled. Back after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MEGAN CRUZ, KOAT NEWS REPORTER (voice-over): It is disturbing video of a deputy slapping a teen in the face four times. The Sandoval County
Sheriff`s Office has since fired Deputy Fred Switzer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. KEITH ELDER, SANDOVAL COUNTY SHERIFF: We are not going to tolerate abuse of the public.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CRUZ (voice-over): Let us watch the video from the beginning. You see deputies buckling up the teen, who is handcuffed as they prepare to drive
him back after a court appearance. There is no audio and we blurred the teen`s face, but it appears he mouths off to Switzer then spits at him.
That is when Switzer climbs into the backseat and slaps him. In the criminal complaint, the teen admits to spitting. He says Switzer slapped
him hard.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SEDAGHATFAR: He is so little.
PINSKY: That eight-year veteran of the Sandoval County Sheriff Department in New Mexico has now been charged with battery. He could face six months
in jail. Back with Sam, Anahita, Kurt, and Segun. And, joining us, John Cardillo, former NYPD officer, host of the syndicated radio program, "John
Cardillo Show." Now, John, the teen spit on that deputy before this whole episode took place. Does that matter? Does that in any way figure in to
how you evaluate what this guy did?
JOHN CARDILLO, FORMER NYPD OFFICER: No, I mean this guy was wrong, right? Apparently, when I read the kid spit on his car, because he knew it was a
new police car, but this deputy -- I mean come on, the kid is seat belted in. We will give him that. It was not a Freddie Gray case, at least he
used the seat belt. But, the jumping in the car and smacking the kid around like that is pretty inexcusable.
PINSKY: And, to be fair, he was not just seat belted. This was for the purpose of my audience. I want the viewers to understand. According to
criminal complaint, the teen was, quote, "Secured with leg shackles, belly chain and handcuffs at all times." And, yet, Sam, still, this sheriff or
deputy did not feel he could contain a teenager in shackles?
SCHACHER: Right. That is the problem, Dr. Drew. He took the law into his own hands, literally. And, listen, I get it. You get spit on and your car
spit on and you want to react, but he is a police officer. He is supposed to deescalate the situation. I tried to think about my sister is a nurse
and she gets hit, she gets spit on but does she hit the patient back? Does she spit on the patient back? So, it is absolutely unacceptable.
PINSKY: Right. But, Segun, you told my producers that this story reminds you of another story.
ODUOLOWU: Right. On our show we talked about that case where the gentleman had his wallet robbed, and he took his belt off and he beat --
remember, he beat the 13-year-old kid.
PINSKY: Yes, I remember.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes. Yes.
ODUOLOWU: And, I was in favor of that type of justice, because we are showing video of where he said, "Let me take you -- let me take you home.
Let ,e report you to your mom." And, the kid would not do it.
And, the guy said, "Listen, if you are going to act this way, I am going to show you what happens when you do." A lot of people were upset about it.
I was in favor for it. The difference is that guy is not a police officer.
[21:50:00] SCHACHER: Right.
ODUOLOWU: And, that kid is not shackled in the back of a car.
SCHACHER: Exactly.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes.
SCHACHER: I agree with you.
SEDAGHATFAR: It is totally unacceptable. I mean, sure, the kid should not have spit on the officer, but that is assault and battery. And, by the
way, I read that this was a 12-year-old kid, not even a teenager.
ODUOLOWU: Wow.
SEDAGHATFAR: And, he is small. He is tied into the seat. He has handcuffs on him. He posed no threat to himself, to the officer, to
anybody. And, I want to say kudos to this police department for swiftly investigating what happened here, and they terminated him.
PINSKY: Kurt.
SEDAGHATFAR: We do not see that frequently. So, kudos to them.
SCHLICHTER: Well, you know, a professional cannot do everything he wants. As a police officer, you just cannot punch people or handcuff.
PINSKY: Right.
SCHLICHTER: As much as the little kid deserved probably being slapped around a little. But, let us look at it a different way here. This kid
potentially committed a crime by spitting on the car or spitting on the cop, which is battery, itself. So, what are we going to do, put him in
jail for a couple years. Put him through the juvenile system. You know.
PINSKY: So, you are saying rather than take --
SCHLICHTER: I am not -- I am saying that there are problems both ways. You cannot hit the kid because you are a professional and you cannot do
that. You just cannot. You have given up that right when you became a police officer, but the system that we have somehow blows these things far,
far out of proportion.
PINSKY: Got it.
SCHACHER: Right.
SCHLICHTER: This kid could potentially carry a conviction for something like that around his neck as an anchor for the rest of his life. Are we
really doing him a favor or maybe there is something to be said for that kind of ancient justice.
PINSKY: Hang on a second. John, John, what do you say?
SEDAGHATFAR: Oh, no.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: John Cardillo.
CARDILLO: You know, there is another issue here, right? There was no hesitation on the part of the other cops to throw this cop under the bus.
And, I read this deputy was 70 years old. Some leads me to believe this guy might have been a chronic problem. This might not be the first time he
did it.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Right. Yes.
CARDILLO: And, the other cop wanted to get rid of him. So, I do not think this is really -- I think this was kind of a one-all and they were happy to
see him go.
PINSKY: All right. We will take a quick break and be right back right after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
[21:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRUZ (voice-over): It is disturbing video of a deputy slapping a teen in the face four times. The Sandoval County Sheriff`s Office has since fired
Deputy Fred Switzer. And, now we have learned he has been charged with a crime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CRUZ (on camera): This criminal complaint was just filed in Sandoval County Court, a special prosecutor charged switzer with battery, which is a
petty misdemeanor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRUZ (voice-over): The complaint also says that sergeant who was there heard Switzer say something about spitting before he heard the slapping.
Now, this happened back in August, it convicted Switzer could face six months in jail and/or pay a $500 fine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: And supervisors learned that, that particular deputies actions, when a fellow officer had reported him. John, would you have difficulty
reporting a colleague?
CARDILLO: Not in a situation, where I could lose my job that was that egregious. And, there was a sergeant there, as well.
PINSKY: Now, hold on. John, other than just to protect your own --
(LAUGHING)
ODUOLOWU: That is right.
PINSKY: Would you report a colleague behaving out of line?
CARDILLO: Hold on. Hold on.
PINSKY: Go ahead. We cannot hear him now.
CARDILLO: Well -- Well, look. obviously, somebody is breaking the law. My audio is down?
PINSKY: No. You are good. You are good. Go ahead.
CARDILLO: OK. But if you say if somebody is breaking the law of course, but a cop with hands on the street, would I be reporting every cop that put
hands on where somebody was not seriously hurt? To be honest, no. I would not be jeopardizing jobs over that every single time, because sometimes
things jump off and you make a decision on the street.
SCHACHER: Wow. Sounds like it happens far too often.
SCHLICHTER: What happened there is a lot different than, you know, some guy who gets an extra punch in the kidneys after running and getting
tackled.
PINSKY: Yes. That is right.
ODUOLOWU: Punch in the kidney? --
SCHLICHTER: That is how things happen.
PINSKY: Not to say that is OK.
SCHLICHTER: Not to say that is OK, but that is a thing --
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHLICHTER: -- and adult on adult. You cannot go and smack around a little kid who is tied up in the car. You cannot do it.
PINSKY: What is your question?
SCHACHER: I have a question for you watching that footage and knowing he is a young boy.
PINSKY: Yes. Maybe 12.
SCHACHER: How is that going to affect him psychologically having a police officer smack him around? Because I remember you had an incident with a
teacher and it still affects you to this day.
PINSKY: I had it too with a teacher that shook me, and I told you, guys, during the break, it was a dentist that did that to me. There was
Pedodontist and it stays with you. If a kid already -- there are several issues here.
When someone in authority not taking care of little people the way he should, it is a criminal, I understand, but when big people mishandle
little people whatever the circumstance, you end up with real problems with trust. And, trust is a very critical ingredient in healthy relationships,
so at minimum you have that. Anahita, you were trying to say something.
SEDAGHATFAR: I was going to say we should commend the other officer that went and reported this, because we often times talk about the blue curtain,
the blue shield.
PINSKY: Well, you handled civil rights cases against police, is that right?
SEDAGHATFAR: Correct. Yes. And, this would be a good civil rights case as well. I mean it is an assault. It is a battery, but if his family
wants to sue them civilly, they certainly have a cause of action here.
But, going back to what I was saying about the other officer, we should commend him, because we do cover stories even on this show, Dr. Drew, where
officers want to cover for other officers.
They want to kind of sweep things under the rug. Good for him for saying something. Because if it were not for him, this guy probably would not
have been caught. No one would look at that video.
PINSKY: And, it happens -- and John Cardillo, I have a few seconds here to sort of follow up on this. You have said before the break that this
happens infrequently. So, you imagine when you add the score up, this guy was 70 years of age. He did not hesitate before he did this. They were
probably happy to get rid of him.
CARDILLO: Yes. And, Kurt Schlichter is right. I mean, he smacked around a little kid. There are just things you do not do. Was not like a career
felon. So, I am pretty sure that these guys were not sorry to see him go.
(LAUGHING)
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Again, seeing how police think. --
SCHLICHTER: It makes it better.
PINSKY: It is all right. At least we are seeing how Kurt Schlichter thinks. That is for sure. Panel, great job. Thank you all for being
here, tonight. We appreciate it. Please DVR this show then you have a chance to watch us any time. We appreciate you watching and supporting the
show.
[22:00:00] Follow us on Facebook. We do an after show there and have an audience on Thursdays. We will be doing that in a couple days. Thank you
all for watching. We will see you next time.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
END
