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Interview With Former Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty; Carly Fiorina Drops Out; President Obama Delivers Address in Illinois. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired February 10, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:02]

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Lincoln said he had been roused as he had never been before over what it meant for America's future.

And so, here in Springfield, at the state fair, he got back in the game and he delivered the first of his great anti-slavery speeches to a crowd of thousands. And over the next six years, even as he lost two more political races, his arguments with Douglas and others shaped the national debate.

That's when he uttered those brilliant words on the steps of the old state capitol, that a house divided against itself cannot stand, that this government cannot endure permanently half-slave and half-free.

He became the first Republican president, and I believe our greatest president. And through his will and his words, and most of all his character, he held a nation together and he helped free a people.

And those victories did not solve all of our problems. He would be attacked at times for the compromises he was prepared to make by abolitionists and folks from his own side. It would be 100 years more until the law guaranteed African-Americans the equal rights that they had been promised.

Even 50 years after that, our march is not yet finished. But because Lincoln made that decision not to give up and not to let other voices speak for him, and because he held in his mind the strength of principle, but the vision, the ability to understand those who disagreed with him and showed them respect even as he fought them, because of what he set in motion, generations of free men and women of all races and walks of life have had the chance to choose this country's course.

What a great gift. What a great legacy he has bestowed us. And that's the thing about America. We are a constant work of progress. And our success has never been certain. None of our journey has been preordained. And there has always been a gap between our highest ideals and the reality that we witness every single day.

But what makes us exceptional, what makes us Americans is that we have fought wars and passed laws and reformed systems and organized unions and staged protests and launched mighty movements to close that gap, and to bring the promise and the practice of America into closer alignment.

We have made the effort to form that more perfect union. Nine years to the day that I first announced for this office, I still believe in that politics of hope. And for all the challenges of a rapidly changing world, and for all the imperfections of our democracy, the capacity to reach across our differences and choose that kind of politics, not a cynical politics, not a politics of fear, but that kind of politics, sustained over the tranquil and steady dedication of a lifetime, that's something that remains entirely up to us.

Thank you, Illinois. God bless you. God bless America. It's good to see all of you.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: If you're just joining us here, we have been watching the president of the United States in his old stomping ground.

This is the Illinois state capital. This is Springfield, Illinois. This is the place he chose. He just invoked Abraham Lincoln, as he has many times before. That is the place where Abraham Lincoln gave his famous house divided speech on the steps of the state capitol. And that is precisely where then Senator Barack Obama chose nine years ago to tell the people he would be running for president.

He has chosen this day nine years later really to give an address on the state of politics, the state of the presidency, invoking a lot of humor and candor, but also criticism of both parties here, talking specifically about how he says the democracy in this country seems stuck, and said one of the things he couldn't do, one of the things he couldn't accomplish,, which, by the way, isn't a new problem, is that he could not reduce the polarization and meanness in our politics.

[15:05:01]

Let's bring in CNN chief political analyst Gloria Borger, former White House Press Secretary Jay Carney, and CNN senior political analyst and former presidential adviser David Gergen.

So much to chew on.

David Gergen, I'm turning to you first. I defer to you. What did you think?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Brooke I'm awfully glad he gave the speech. It's an important subject, the polarization and the dysfunctionality of the broken nature of our politics.

And I think he spoke eloquently, especially at the end, as he talked of Lincoln and the house divided. I thought you were to draw attention to that. The president knows full well this will not go down smoothly with everyone, that there are those who would rise to celebrate, as the Democrats did in the chamber, but there are many Republicans who are going to argue, wait a minute, you didn't really practice what you preached these last few years. You never really talked to us, you never brought us in, you never compromised with us.

And what did we wind up with? We wind up with Obamacare not getting a single Republican vote. We had the Iranian nuclear agreement, not a single Republican vote, two signal accomplishments Democrats would say of a presidency, two accomplishments that are still being argued about on the trail.

I was surprised the president didn't take account of last night and the sort of forceful rejection of American political elites that voters were giving voice to. It seemed to me the speech was also written pre-New Hampshire.

BALDWIN: Before New Hampshire.

GERGEN: Yes. And so you didn't have that sense.

But, overall, thank goodness he wrote -- he did the speech. I wish he would tell us now, what concretely would you like to see us do and how about leading the charge?

BALDWIN: He had several solutions there at the end which we will loop back to in just a moment.

But, Gloria, to you. I was also listening very closely and I want your reaction. But I was listening closely. In the first couple of minutes, he did jab, I think, at the Republicans, talking about, listen, we shouldn't be calling people fascists and losers before he pivoted back to talk about I think some of the points he wanted to make. What did you think?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I also think -- and David is right. While he didn't mention anything about last night, he had that reference to losers. And he also made it very clear that he called himself a progressive.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BORGER: Which is something we didn't hear from him when he first ran for the presidency. And now he is being criticized, as we saw in those exit polls last night, from Democrats and independents for not being liberal enough. Right?

And he said, you know, I'm a progressive. This is what I believe. And I think he gave Hillary Clinton something to hang on, because as she heads into South Carolina and she draws Barack Obama ever closer because he is her greatest ally, although he's not out there on the trail for her, as she hugs him closer in South Carolina, she can say that she endorses Barack Obama's progressive policies while Bernie Sanders did not in many instances.

So I think he gave her a bit of a hook there.

BALDWIN: I was thinking the same thing, Jay, on that, and he almost seemed to me like he was defining who he believes a Democrat is, or at least he as Barack Obama is a Democrat, a progressive, talked about just because I can find common ground, something we have heard from the Hillary camp on the trail, doesn't make me a sellout to my own party.

What did you make of that whole thread?

JAY CARNEY, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I think it's what has been the history of his administration, and the efforts that he undertook to try to get things done with Republicans, often without success, on deficit reduction and the grand compromise around our fiscal situation and immigration reform, that any time the president put something forward, no matter how moderate it had been prior to his putting his name on it, it became toxic for Republicans politically for them to embrace it.

And I think that one thing that was very important that he made clear in the speech today is that, you know, we have gotten to where we are today because of the actions of members of both parties and that Democrats aren't pure on this and Republicans aren't pure on this.

And I guess my regret about the speech today is that the concrete actions he talked about that we need to take, especially political reform around our gerrymandering, you know, I wish he had given that speech a number of years ago. It's very hard to get people excited about political reform. Everybody is for it in theory, but very few people vote on it.

But it is the most -- the way we draw our districts is the most corrosive, direct negative influence on our politics in Washington, more than money, more than anything else. If we could fix that, we could fix a lot.

BALDWIN: Jay, let stay with you, and just also to underscore your point, yes, in the very end, solutions being the districts being drawn. he said the debates moving too far to the right, when really the people are in the middle. They should go back to the middle and also saying the modernization of American voting.

But staying with you, the point Gloria was making about how we have seen Hillary Clinton on the trail bear-hugging the president, I'm curious, at what point along these springtime primaries do you think we will see -- officially see the bear-hug back from the president, that official endorsement? When?

CARNEY: I think the president has signaled while still remaining neutral that he supports Secretary Clinton's candidacy and would prefer to see her as the nominee.

[15:10:07]

He won't officially embrace her unless and until it's clear that she is going to be the nominee. I think he is maintaining that tradition of not intervening in a party primary. But I don't think there is any doubt that he wants Hillary to win the nomination and believes that she would be the best candidate in the fall and the most effective as president in carrying forward what he has achieved.

BALDWIN: All right, Jay Carney, thank you very much. Gloria, let me ask you and David Gergen to stand by, as we are just

now getting some breaking news here in the wake of the New Hampshire primary. I can now officially tell everyone that Carly Fiorina is officially dropping out of the race. She just made this announcement here on Facebook.

And apparently she has a very specific message to young women, which is, I'm reading her note now: "To young girls and women across the country, I say do not let others define you. Do not listen to anyone who says you have to vote a certain way or for a certain candidate because you are a woman. That is not feminism."

Gloria Borger, and I have David Chalian joining me now.

Actually, let's go to David Chalian first.

David, if you want to weigh in on more of what you are hearing from the Fiorina camp.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Listen, clearly, Carly Fiorina had not either in Iowa or New Hampshire posted any kind of result that was going to allow her to raise the money necessary going to move forward, to create the organization around here to move forward.

What the Republicans lose here with Carly Fiorina's exit from the race is one of the most vocal critics of Hillary Clinton in the Republican field. This is how she entered the race and how she conducted herself pretty much all the way through was to draw the sharpest possible contrasts with Hillary Clinton. And that is something that she continually returned to, even when she was being sort of attacked or the center of attention from her fellow Republicans.

She was always the one that was really trying to take the fight to Clinton.

BALDWIN: Gloria, to you. Your thoughts, and also on this note to girls and women.

BORGER: Her point always was that as a woman candidate it would be easier for her to take the fight to Clinton because she wouldn't refrain in certain situations where men might refrain.

I think her -- you know, her whole problem was that, A, that wasn't enough. B, she wasn't going to make it on the main debate stage, if the debate stage at all. She had been in the undercard debates. And she had her moments after her first debate. And she wasn't getting any traction.

If you look -- you know, her signal today is, all those young women who are endorsing or looking at Bernie Sanders, fine. Just don't vote for a woman because she's a woman. I think, obviously, Republicans in many ways see Bernie Sanders as a much more vulnerable presidential contender than Hillary Clinton and they like the fact that Sanders is giving Clinton a real run for her money here.

So there's no love lost between Carly Fiorina and Hillary Clinton. BALDWIN: OK.

David Gergen wants to jump in. Go ahead.

GERGEN: Yes, sure.

Carly Fiorina has lost her campaign, but she hasn't lost her voice. I think we are going to find her returning to television studios like this one talking to you about these issues. And by issuing that last final message, she is going to be very much in the fray on this argument that Madeleine Albright and Gloria Steinem started last week scolding young women for supporting Bernie Sanders.

That appeared to backfire. A lot of young women were sort of, wait a minute. We are a new generation, let us make up our own minds. That argument is going to be pretty much darn important as we go forward, as Hillary Clinton seeks out the support of women.

I think Carly Fiorina is going the stay in the fray, if you will, even though she doesn't stay in the race.

BALDWIN: Interesting. I was hearing from some folks who have gone to so many of these Bernie Sanders rallies and these young women who say they are not obviously in it for the boys. They say, listen, if it's ultimately not Bernie Sanders, they just won't vote.

I also happen to have standing by, we're so thrilled to have him back on the show, Tim Pawlenty, Tim Pawlenty, a former Republican governor of Minnesota who ran for president a couple years ago.

Governor, welcome back. As we are getting this news here on Carly Fiorina dropping out, your response?

TIM PAWLENTY (R), FORMER MINNESOTA GOVERNOR: One thing I think voters are looking for is strength. They see that in Donald Trump, they see that in some other candidates.

Carly had strength. That was one of her strong appeals. She was also clear in her messaging, but she wasn't able to build the organization and get the fund-raising she needed to continue on. I agree with David's analysis. She is going to be an important voice, but her campaign ends today, obviously.

BALDWIN: We also -- we know that Chris Christie is apparently -- quote, unquote -- "taking a breath" back in New Jersey. Also questions about Dr. Carson's campaigns. Those are those who finished a little lower than everyone else in New Hampshire.

[15:15:01]

You know, if you were putting yourself in their shoes, would you hang in there or not?

PAWLENTY: You can hang in as long as you can money. But I think in the case of Chris' campaign, they were running out of money and he wasn't going to make the debate stage. It just comes to a practical end.

And even before his Rubio moment, his numbers had sort of peaked in November, but then dipped again and kind of plateaued. And so there wasn't any real sign that this was catching fire. But he is going to be an incredible leader for the party and I think for another strong voice for many years to come. He has a big future.

BALDWIN: On the Rubio moment, which I'm guessing, I could be wrong, the debate moment, the kamikaze attack, as I think Charles Krauthammer referred to it, he sort of helped take Rubio down, but in doing so, he went down along with it.

And I'm wondering looking ahead to this debate for the Republicans on Saturday, if these other Republicans are very aware if they take that same attack, it may not benefit them either.

PAWLENTY: I don't think the numbers support that, Brooke.

I think if you look at Chris' numbers, peaked in November, plateaued at a certain level. He didn't go down after the Rubio clash, but he didn't go up. And so he didn't go up with the clash. But his problems I don't think were attacking Marco Rubio. I think his challenge was a couple-fold.

One is conservatives, I think unfairly, viewed him as too moderate. So he didn't catch on with conservatives. And then his brand is I'm the straight talker. I'm the bold talker. And then when Trump entered the race, he got trumped. Somebody bolder, louder, more dramatic got in the race and it sort of discounted Chris' brand in that regard.

BALDWIN: Governor, stay with me.

I see David out of the corner of my eye.

Go ahead.

GERGEN: Don't you think Marco Rubio is so relieved that Chris Christie may leave the stage and will not be there for the next debate?

BALDWIN: But couldn't their be someone else?

(CROSSTALK)

GERGEN: Well, there could be, but Christie was a terrific prosecutor. He made the case. I don't think there is anybody up on the stage who could do that it as effectively against Rubio as Christie did.

BALDWIN: So, then, Governor, back to you. I know that a Rubio spokesperson told CNN -- and I'm quoting -- "The longer Jeb" -- on Jeb Bush -- "The longer Jeb stays in this race, the more likely that Donald Trump will be nominated."

I know so much of politics is psychological. But isn't that some sort of guilt shaming of Republicans here? (LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: You laugh, but is there truth to it? And is that effective?

PAWLENTY: Well, as to Jeb, he has a number assets at the moment. One is as much as people dislike kind of dynastic politics, they like a comeback story. He had beaten down. And the prospect of someone coming back gets empathy.

And two is, he has got the value of the asset of time. He's got a lot of money, so he can play out the calendar. No candidate who sees himself or herself as viable is going to drop out until the money dries up. So, whether you like it or not, Jeb is going to continue. I think he has found his stride here.

And, by the way, as to Marco, he had a very uncharacteristic lapse in the debate. If you look at him across the arc of his career, he is a very disciplined communicator. He can claw back from this and he has got enough money to buy himself time to get a second or third look as well.

BALDWIN: Let's assume Donald Trump continues on. My final question to you, looking at I -- think Ari Fleischer put it yesterday to me the muddle in the middle, the Kasich, Rubio, Cruz, Bush, who is the best to emerge moving forward, one person, Governor, you have to choose, who would then go against Trump?

PAWLENTY: I think Trump is on a roll, Cruz is going to be strong in the Southeast.

But if you look at who can -- assuming it's not Trump, I would say of those three, Kasich has got some challenges because he doesn't have the resources. He has got a lot of appeal, but he is going to have to raise and spend money quickly. Jeb has got the most infrastructure and the most money, but he got some limits as a candidate.

I think I would have said Rubio. I still would say Rubio, but he is damaged coming out of that debate.

BALDWIN: OK.

Governor Tim Pawlenty, thank you so much, as always. It was a big night last night in New Hampshire, and now all eyes on South Carolina.

Thank you so much, sir. We will see you again.

Meantime, let me just remind you all as we are chewing on all the political fodder in the wake of New Hampshire here, the big one for Donald Trump, the number two spot for Kasich and down along we go, we are watching the see who drops out.

We just got word from Carly Fiorina's camp that she will officially be bowing out of the Republican race for that nomination. She released a -- I'm looking at four paragraphs here on our Facebook page that she will no longer be participating, although to David Gergen's point we may very well see her in the wings speaking on the periphery here as the race continues.

As we talk so much about women in this race, especially young women, even on the Democrat side, many young women who have been brought towards Bernie Sanders, because also we have heard Gloria Steinem, two icons in feminism, Gloria Steinem and Madeleine Albright, recently making comments that have had some young women back away.

Specifically to young women, let me just read this from Carly Fiorina's statement.

[15:20:03]

She wrote: "To young girls and women across the country, I say do not let others define you. Do not listen to anyone who says you have to vote a certain way or for a certain candidate because you are a woman." She says, "That is not feminism."

She has been a harsh, harsh critic of Hillary Clinton. So much more on this breaking story and everything else here as we talk politics. This is the place to be. Quick break. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Be right back.

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[15:24:14]

BALDWIN: And we're back with the breaking news here on Carly Fiorina's campaign specifically on the Republican side.

We are just now learning she is suspending her campaign for the nomination for president.

With that, Matt Schlapp is with me, former political director for George W. Bush, and I understand, Matt, a close friend of Carly Fiorina.

First to you, good to see you. Welcome back.

MATT SCHLAPP, FORMER WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF POLITICAL AFFAIRS: Great to be here.

BALDWIN: Was this a surprise for you to hear this?

SCHLAPP: Yes. I mean, it's a little bit of a surprise because I know she was raising money at a pretty good clip. She had a plan that would have taken her further. I haven't talked to her since I read about this on Facebook. So I don't know what her state of mind is.

But I will tell you what. She had a great impact on this race. She is a fabulous communicator, a fabulous leader. I am very, very excited that she's in our party. And I think she still has a great future.

[15:25:03]

BALDWIN: I think it's important just to remind our viewers the arc of Carly Fiorina. We were all sitting at the Reagan Library.

I'm losing track of time now, a couple months ago, for our first big Republican debate. She was on the main stage because she performed so well at the undercard debate, that very first Republican debate. There was that. She did though spar with several of the candidates, Donald Trump specifically, that whole face thing. Do you think that hurt her?

SCHLAPP: No, not at all. I think she always took these moments with a touch of class.

You know, and she tried to rise above it. I think, you know, the only thing I wish people could have seen more of Carly is, she is so smart and she's so driven to get her message across that sometimes people didn't get to see what a kind, care, decent, funny, lighthearted person she is as well. And I think the debates give you one dimension to a candidate. But there are so many other dimensions.

And I think the more people get to know her, they will get to know that side of her, too.

BALDWIN: OK. I'm going to ask you this next question, and I want you to tell me not what you hope she will do, but just knowing her, what you think she will do.

SCHLAPP: Fair enough.

BALDWIN: The question is, who do you think she will now throw her support behind?

SCHLAPP: I don't know, because I haven't talked to her.

But I do think she is going to take her time to think about it. I cannot not see her throwing her support behind Donald Trump. I think that would be a surprise. I think she is going to take a step back and look at the race before she makes her next step. But it's all in her hands, Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK. Matt Schlapp, thank you very much. I appreciate that. We will talk again soon, I'm sure.

Meantime, from the Republicans, now we're getting some more news just in from the Democrats. Hillary Clinton expected to go -- quote -- "far more aggressive" -- end quote -- on Bernie Sanders after she lost to him, double-digits loss, in New Hampshire -- her new strategy next.

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