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Clinton Camp to Be More Aggressive; South Carolina Bloodbath Expected for Republicans; Cell Phone of San Bernardino Terrorists Still Encrypted; 3:30-4p ET

Aired February 10, 2016 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:31:29] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Bottom of the hour. You are watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

In a time when they are desperately seeking to highlight their differences, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders both know they will not win the nomination without the support of the minority voters. It is a demographic which has been loyal to the Clinton campaign (INAUDIBLE). But younger voters and women within very demographic have been jumping ship for Sanders in recent week. And an aide now tells CNN that she has been laying low today in order to plan quote- unquote "far more aggressive approach in terms of this campaign against Bernie Sanders.

So let's talk about the Democrats with CNN global economic analyst Rona Foroohar. She is also the assistant managing editor for "Time" magazine and back with us CNN political commentator Carl Bernstein.

So, awesome having both of you on.

And Carl, so much to chew on. Let me just begin with this new nugget by Jeff Zeleny is now hearing from the Clinton camp, that they do plan to go more aggressive on Bernie Sanders. How much more aggressive do you think they should go and is that smart?

CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think it might not be wise if it literally is to be more aggressive about Bernie Sanders. She is running a terribly flawed campaign as a terribly flawed candidate. And she has got to find her voice and get her record and her persona out there. It's a great record of a lifetime. He has put forth his character, his movement, and it's gotten traction. And he is clobbering her.

This is an election between the two of them that really is about character and principle. And Obama just gave a great speech in which I would think he was saying to both the Democrats and the Republicans, hey, calm down. Let's have a fact-based debate. And right now, Sanders has run a campaign that seems to have captured the zeitgeist. And the Hillary Clinton is really flailing and looking for an opening. And the real opening, I think, is the record of her life. Mistakes, excess baggage, all of it. But the distrust question, truthfulness is killing her right now.

BALDWIN: On a capturing zeitgeist point that you are making - and Rona we were chatting in commercial, but I think just as a woman and watching these young women flocking to Bernie Sanders and, of course, you -- I look at you and think economist, and wrote this whole piece and how some of the young people I talk to, you know, in these rallies really love Bernie Sanders because of what he says about college debt. And it resonates. It's not like Hillary Clinton, though, hasn't been talking about that and if anything has been more specific about her plans.

RONA FOROOHAR, CNN GLOBAL ECONOMIC ANALYST: No. That's the great irony. OK. So, if you look at what she has put out there in terms of how she would regulate Wall Street, what he would do about particular financial issues curving the rapaciousness of the financial (INAUDIBLE), she has actually put out a lot more detail than Bernie Sanders.

But it comes down to an issue of trust. I think that younger voters in particular, and a lot of working class voters, people that have suffered not just post financial crisis but a couple of decades now with stagnant wages, I think they look at the establishment candidates of which because of her last name, Hillary is certainly precede to be one.

BALDWIN: And the young people don't like that.

FAROOHAR: And they say - and they don't like that. The say who is really going to change things, who is really going to fix things. So it comes to a trust issue. And I think on that floor, we see the poll numbers of Bernie Sanders is doing better.

BALDWIN: The exit numbers last night, trust was a huge issue.

Carl, how does - I mean, it is the same question asked before but it is still keeps coming up so how does she fix the trust issue moving forward quickly.

BERNSTEIN: I think she has to acknowledge she has made terrible misjudgments and errors particularly on the server. Look. The vast right wing conspiracy didn't put the server in her damn closet. And she is going to have to get by this thing and she is going to have to acknowledge a terrible misjudgment it seems to me here that she has a record of a lifetime. And Bernie Sanders has a record of a lifetime. And it could be a great debate.

Sanders has, you know, really defined what this election is about. He and President Obama. You know, Obama as an amazing legacy. He is the one who has said economic inequality is the issue of our time. He started about the one percent back during the occupy Wall Street movement. And that's part of his legacy as well. And she has come late to the table in this immediate debate, though, she's always been at the table throughout her whole life.

[15:35:58] BALDWIN: But, and I'm staying with you, Carl, looking ahead to South Carolina, I mean, listen a lot of Americans really see Bill Clinton as the first black president. You think of all the, you know, nonwhites who would voting in South Carolina, it is a huge population. And I mean, won't she have some be winds in her sails, though, finally in the wake of, you know, New Hampshire will be long gone, she wins South Carolina, and then continues on forward. Did you think it is not as much as gimmy (ph) as people may believe?

BERNSTEIN: I think we need to stop covering this thing as a horse race with every furlong. This is going to be a long race, all the way through to almost the convention. And I think Sanders is going to pick up some block vote. I watched that interview last night with the independent voters that Randi Kaye did on our network here. And a number of African-Americans said, well I'm undecided but now I think I'm with Bernie Sanders. He has the endorsement of the former head of the NAACP. He was at core Congress of racial equality organizer. He participated in the student sit-ins. He is no slouch, but both Hillary and Bernie Sanders come out of a generation that fought for civil rights.

But I would take nothing for granted. His message, Sanders is - remember when Martin Luther King was killed. He was putting out an economic message about economic inequality. He had gone way past the ordinary civil rights dialogue, Martin Luther King, added a little bit of what we're hearing from Bernie Sanders right now. So I would not think this is a gimmy.

BALDWIN: To be fair, I mean, I'm channeling, you know, talked to Ryan Fallon who is in the Hillary Clinton campaign, and they would say, hang on a second. It is not like Hillary Clinton has been twiddling her thumbs. Ever since she graduated in a law school she has been a progressive, fighting for women's rights. All of that as well.

BERNSTEIN: Absolutely. She has a great -- Hillary Clinton has a great record and story to tell about the arc of her life and having been on the side of all the right issues as far as the Democrats are concerned, in terms of the liberal vision of America, in terms of her religious Wesleyan Methodist vision of do all the good you can whenever you can. She has lived it. At the same time, and she is not the demon of the right wing's characterization.

But she also has tripped herself up repeatedly by not being transparent, by being secretive, and by seeing herself as a victim. And somehow she's got to get out of -- she wants to be aggressive, it seems to me, she has to aggressively climb her way out and define herself in terms of who she really is and always has been.

BALDWIN: OK. Quickly, you want to put a button on that?

FAROOHAR: I think that there is the legacy of the 1990s and Bill Clinton's economic legacy to grapple with. Now, a lot of that was good. There was good growth under Clinton. But there was also a lot of financial deregulation. You know, commodities from deregulated at that point. Glass table was pushed back. These are some of the things Bernie is bringing up. And I think that issue also hangs over Hillary. She has good ideas. She should clarify.

BALDWIN: OK. Rona, Carl, thank you both so much.

And a reminder to everyone. Do not miss this next faceoff between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders. They will be in Wisconsin tomorrow night for the PBS News hour Democratic debate simulcast right here on CNN. 9:00 eastern tomorrow night on CNN and your local PBS station.

Next, is there room for these two candidates from Florida moving ahead in this Republican race for president? Marco Rubio now warning the longer Jeb Bush sticks around the more likely Trump will win. That's what we are hearing from a spokesperson in camp Rubio. We will have live reports covering both campaigns on this historic race for the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is a very unique race. You guys, some of you covered elections before. You have never had a race like this. I was joking last night. They are not only going to write books about this election. They are going to teach courses about this election.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:44:52] BALDWIN: Welcome back. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Here's a quote for. South Carolina is going to be a blood bath. That is a direct quote from a Marco Rubio aide following a disappointing fifth place finish in New Hampshire under Jeb Bush.

Let's go straight to our CNN senior political reporter Manu Raju who has been following the Rubio campaign today in (INAUDIBLE), South Carolina.

Listen. I know that, you know, that aide told you that. But couldn't the same be reversed in terms of winning or losing against Trump? Couldn't Bush say the same thing?

[15:45:21] MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Absolutely. That's what was such a problematic result from the Rubio campaign's perspective from what happened in New Hampshire last night. They wanted to be the clear alternative to Donald Trump and Ted Cruz. Keep this a three person race. And now it is a four or five person race. So what you are going to see from Marco Rubio is sharpening contrast with Jeb Bush and not afraid to take to Donald Trump as well. We spent 44 minutes talking to Marco Rubio about these issues on the campaign trail today. And he did not hold back when talking about Jeb Bush and Donald Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUBIO: I think there was a question about eminent domain and Jeb was bragging about how he did things in Florida on eminent domain. Well, guess who did it? I did that. That was my law. After kilo, I passed the law in Florida on eminent domain. And I am the one that put the constitutional amendment on the ballot. And that was even I became a speaker. There was a lot of talk about common core. We reformed the school curriculum in Florida after Jeb left office. You know who reformed the school curriculum in Florida? I did.

I Donald. He is a very likable person and you can see why and we all watch the things he said (INAUDIBLE). You know, pretty entertaining to some. Some of it not so entertaining. But ultimately as this race narrows down, people are going to want to know why the person I'm electing as president, do they really understand the difference between Sunni and Shia. Do they understand the difference between ISIS and al-Qaeda?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: In addition to sharpening the contrasts which we are starting to see - we are going to see a little bit more of Rubio wants to show a little bit more of his personality, more of apable (ph) and try push back on that criticism which this campaign believes in an incredibly unfair that he is too robotic, stiff and rigid. And he made some reference, and made some self-deprecating humor when he talk about the debate moment, that infamous debate moment between him and Chris Christie on Saturday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Rick Perry was unable to put his debate in 2011 behind him.

RUBIO: Yes. But I'm -

RAJU: I know, it was worse. How does your campaign put that behind you?

RUBIO: Well, I mean, there is a big difference. He couldn't remember what he wanted to say. Apparently, I remembered it too well. So I don't need to start these fights. But if someone starts one in the future we are going to have to point out the differences in our records in a sharper way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Of course that was a comparison between him and that Rick Perry infamous debate moment from 21012. He said it was much different than back then. We will see if this different side of Marco Rubio continues to take hold on the campaign trail and if he can push back on the narrative that he is too scripted of a campaign, Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK, Manu, thank you very much in South Carolina.

Coming up next, it could hold vital clues about the killers and how they planned the San Bernardino attacks. Why the FBI, after two months of trying, still cannot break into a cell phone belonging to one of these attackers. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:52:00] BALDWIN: The FBI is apparently stumped by the San Bernardino terrorist phone. The cell phone is still encrypted nearly two months after that attack. That is when a married couple opened fire, killed 14 people. The terrorists were killed in the shootout sometime after by police. Still unknown here, did they have contact with terrorists outside of the United States as they planned this attack.

Let's bring in justice correspondent Pamela Brown. And Pamela, just, first, why would the FBI say that they're stumped

over this?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, in part to bolster the argument, Brooke, that we have been hearing from the FBI for several months that encryption is a huge problem, and now you're hearing the director of the FBI, James Comey, coming out saying for the second time in recent months that encryption is hindering a terrorism investigation. The first one was in garland, Texas, where one of the men had 109 encrypted messages with a terrorist overseas. And now Comey is saying that one of the cell phones they received from this terrorist couple is encrypted. All of the data on it was automatically scrambled. And so, FBI technicians aren't able to see what was on that phone, that information could shed light on perhaps who else this couple was talking to, whether they received any direction, whether they were planning any other terrorist attacks, whether something was missed along the way. But because the FBI can't get into that, they're saying this is presenting a huge obstacle for them.

However, I should point out, Brooke, that they were able to exploit other electronics from this couple, including other cell phones, so they were able to get some information, but director Comey is coming out and really sending a message to Silicon Valley saying here we go again where encryption is playing a role and creating problems for us in a terrorism investigation -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Pamela, thank you.

Next, he is one of the hottest names in the Republican race right now. Governor John Kasich coming in second in New Hampshire, running what he calls a positive campaign. But we just sat down with him and he is revealing what he will do when his rivals start attacking.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:58:20] BALDWIN: Ohio governor John Kasich says he won't sit there like a marshmallow if he is attacked after his big surge to a second place finish in New Hampshire. Kasich is in South Carolina right now working hard to convince supporters to go to the polls for him in the polls in South Carolina. Kasich says he will keep his campaign positive unless a rival candidate throws the first punch.

He just spoke with CNN's special correspondent, Jamie Gangel.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMIE GANGEL. CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: The attack ads are already on the air.

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes.

GANGEL: Are you going to hit back?

KASICH: Well, I'm not going to sit there and be a, you know, a marshmallow or some kind of a pin cushion and people just pound me. I mean, where I come from, the blue collar town that I come from, if you come in and beat our football team, we just broke all the windows on your bus. I mean, you know, that's just a joke, by the way. But I mean, the fact is I'm not going to just sit there and let somebody pound on me. But, you know -- and I can't predict exactly what the future is, but I believe that this message of we can, we are Americans before we are Republicans and Democrats. These problems that we have can be solved. That we can get the shine back in America, you know, leave no one behind. I just think these are very important messages, more than me spending my time being negative about somebody else.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And that is just a piece. You can watch Jamie's full interview with Ohio governor John Kasich coming up on "the SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer at 5:00 eastern.

And just a quick reminder to all of you, the Dems, they will be debating tomorrow night Milwaukee, 9:00 eastern. You can find it on your local PBS station and also here on CNN.

And with that, I thank you. I'm Brooke Baldwin. I will see you back here tomorrow.

In the meantime, we send it to Washington. "The LEAD with Jake Tapper" starts right now.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Brooke. I'm back from New Hampshire. As Donald Trump might say, there was so much winning going on.

"The LEAD" starts right now.