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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

PBS Democratic Debate; Black Supporters Boost Clinton; Sinking Oil Prices; Presidential Race; Zika Virus. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired February 11, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:00:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

The campaigns have gone south, having been booted and bruised and brought down this week in New England. But tonight, for two hours anyway, the Democratic battle moves west. Got a live picture for you of a very important stage, folks. Technically, Midwest. This is Milwaukee, Wisconsin, site of a PBS "News Hour" Democratic debate that's also airing right here on CNN. Fresh off of his New Hampshire landslide, Bernie Sanders is going to again face Hillary Clinton, who's been under wraps since that thumping that she got in New Hampshire. Sanders has not been under wraps. Anything but, in fact. On ABC's "The View" and CBS' "Late Show," Bernie Sanders talked shop, and he cracked jokes, and he suggested that his appeal to young voters comes down to two words, why not?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Why can't all people in this country have health care? Why can't we make public colleges and universities tuition-free? Why not? Why do we have so much -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There we go. OK, so the answer is - the answer is that it's expensive. It's a very expensive thing to do. And the top 1 percent has a lot of influence with the government and they're not just going to give it up, you know?

SANDERS: Well -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're going to fight you tooth and nail. And I'll give you - I'll tell you how I know. I'm in the top 1 percent.

Why do you think you can make this change?

SANDERS: I think because we have reached a point in American society where people are just very, very unhappy with the status quo.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Even during her downtime, Senator Clinton picked up a very big endorsement. And it came just moments ago from the political action committee of the Congressional Black Caucus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. GREGORY MEEKS (D), CONGRESSIONAL BLACK CAUCUS: So you judge a person by their results. And there is no question that the person that has obtained the most results and benefits for communities of color and everyone in America, in my opinion, but especially getting Democrats elected, there's not even close. It's not even close! It's Hillary Clinton.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: There you have that. So all of this brings me to my CNN colleague, Brianna Keilar, who is at the site of this evening's showdown at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee.

I had to double-check the list, our location information, because I fully expected this should be in South Carolina, but it's in Wisconsin. So first answer me why we're in Wisconsin, and then with that answer, how different it's going to be from New Hampshire.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it doesn't, perhaps, Ashleigh, make a whole lot of sense right now, why this would be in Wisconsin. But you want to think back several months to when this debate was scheduled. And one of the people that I think certainly Democrats thought would be a tough Republican challenger against a Democratic nominee was Scott Walker, governor of Wisconsin. So I think that that was probably part of the calculus, having a debate in his backyard. Obviously, he's not in the race and hasn't been for some time at this point, but way back when, it perhaps made a little bit more sense.

I do think the debate you're going to see here at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee tonight is really one to watch because you have this narrative where Hillary Clinton has suffered this loss, Bernie Sanders has had this big win, he wants to continue some momentum. But what we're getting in some of those indications, even coming from, you know, John Lewis and other folks who endorse Hillary Clinton as part of this Congressional Black Caucus PAC endorsement, you're seeing that there are these attacks coming from Hillary Clinton supporters. And I think that's an indication that you're going to see Hillary Clinton really trying to draw some of the sharpest contrast yet with Bernie Sanders.

You can never really know exactly what's going to happen in a debate, but considering the environment right now, I think this is really shaping up to be one of the more contentious debates that we've seen.

BANFIELD: All right, Brianna Keilar, live for us at the site of the debate in Milwaukee, thank you for that.

The black vote was not a decisive factor in the two presidential contests that we've had to date, Iowa and New Hampshire. But look what is fast approaching for Democrats. Nevada caucuses, nine days from now, and South Carolina's primary, one week after that. Both of those states are diverse. In Nevada, whites are a slim majority with Hispanics making up more than a quarter of the population, and African-Americans, 8 percent. In South Carolina, the black population is 28 percent of the total. Total Hispanics, 5 percent. But even that is not the entire picture. When Barack Obama ran in 2008, African- Americans made up 54 percent of South Carolina's Democratic primary voters. Again, 54 percent.

[12:05:19] I know those numbers are important, but let's talk about the people and some of the people behind the numbers. I'm pleased to welcome two South Carolina state lawmakers. Both of them are Democrats. Representative John Richard supports - or John Richard King supports Hillary Clinton for president and Representative Cezar McKnight supports Bernie Sanders.

And welcome to the both of you. Glad you could be seated so happily side by side. But I'm going to put you both to the test, if I can.

Representative King, this is a critical state for Hillary Clinton. It has always been thought that when you say the word "Clinton," it harkens back to Bill Clinton being the technical first black president of the United States. And now all of a sudden there's this divide. Why is that?

JOHN RICHARD KING (D), SOUTH CAROLINA STATE HOUSE: Well, I don't think there is a divide in South Carolina. I think that the voters in South Carolina will still continue to support the Clintons. Secretary Clinton has a proven track record of being a supporter of the African- American community. And as you have seen just today, the congressional black caucus came out with an endorsement. And majority of the South Carolina legislative Black Caucus members have endorsed Secretary Clinton. So I think there is not a divide. I think there's a great support here in South Carolina for Secretary Clinton.

BANFIELD: So Representative McKnight, you're backing Bernie Sanders. Some people are surprised now that so much attention is turning to South Carolina that there is a sizeable backing for Bernie Sanders. What is it about Bernie Sanders that attracts black voters?

CEZAR MCKNIGHT, BERNIE SANDERS SUPPORTER: I think it's Senator Sanders' message about the economic disparity in this country that's so appealing to African-American voters. African-Americans have been on the front line of the chopping block in the fleecing of America in that since the great recession we've seen the values of the African- American household, their household wealth, plummet to an average of $9,000 per household. And it's bearing in mind that our constituents need to be reminded that the conditions that led to the great recession were created in large part during the Clinton administration with the deregulations of the banks, with NAFTA, which devastated all of the industry in my community, one which all of our plants and factories left.

So I think that the other thing is, is that the black vote is not to just be taken for granted and think it can wholesale go one way or the other. We saw that in 2008 when Secretary Clinton ran for president and it seemed as if she took South Carolina for granted. And we saw the result and we ended up with President Obama. I think that once African-American voters here in South Carolina hear the message of Senator Sanders, that a lot of them will rally to the message that he has because it's effective, it's on point and it's necessary. And it points out the problems that we're having in our community today. BANFIELD: I'd love to have both of you weigh in, and, Representative

King, I'll get you to go first on the significance of what's just happened in the last hour, and that's the Congressional Black Caucus PAC coming forward and saying that they support Hillary Clinton. Is that significant for your state?

KING: That is very significant. And I beg to differ with my colleague, Representative McKnight about the 2008 election. The difference is, is that African-American people, just like any other culture, we vote for our own. And I think that's what it was. It was not that we disliked the Clintons. I think what it was is that we were voting for someone who looked like us. And we wanted something different. We felt that it was time for America to recognize that African-American people can lead this country. And we - in a - in a great way. And we have proven that to be true because President Barack Obama has done an excellent job. And I lean into saying that Secretary Clinton will move forward in carrying out a lot of what President Obama has already done. And our opponent has said some things that we think will hurt what we have accomplished up under -

BANFIELD: So Representative McKnight -

KING: President - the president's agenda.

BANFIELD: I saw you giving a side eye there. You're getting a side eye from Representative McKnight. It's all - all very polite, but at the same time I can definitely see the difference between the two of you. And regarding President Obama, Representative McKnight, you have said Obama shares in some of the blame for not putting anyone in jail after the big bank bailout and the Wall Street debacle. But do we - I mean is Hillary Clinton to be held accountable for what is perceived to be Barack Obama's failings in the bank bailout?

MCKNIGHT: Well, I think that you may see a continuation of what's happened with the results and the fallout of the great recession. Yes, I have said that we've had people fleece the retirements and pensions of millions of Americans through unscrupulous business practices, and no one has gone to jail. The only thing that we've had happen is for big banks to pay a fine and no one to be held accountable.

And we see that now, given the fact that we know that Secretary Clinton has taken millions of dollars from speaking engagements and banks. What are we led to believe? That she's suddenly going to turn tough on the people that put the food on her table? I don't think so.

[12:10:11] KING: And - and I hate -

MCKNIGHT: Essentially -

KING: I hate - I hate that you would say that about - about Secretary Clinton.

MCKNIGHT: I'm sorry, I thought it was my turn, Representative King.

KING: But we cannot prove anywhere where she has - when she's taken money, where she has let her vote been - to be bought, or she's changed her vote as a senator for the United States.

MCKNIGHT: You're right, but what we can prove -

KING: She stays firm on her decisions. And Secretary Clinton has a proven track record of being very supportive of the African-American community. She has a proven track record of moving forward in supporting what the president -

MCKNIGHT: In what way has she been supportive of the African-American community as a senator? She has voted for the Iraq War that cost us the lives of thousands of United States citizens. Lots of them African-Americans. So I can't see - and here's the other thing you need to know. It's her husband's administration that backed the three strikes you're outlaws that have locked up an entire generation of black and brown people in this country. And she has just paid lip service to it. So I don't want it to be sent - made it seem as if Hillary Clinton is like the second coming of Rosa Parks, because she's not.

KING: Well, I would say this. If the legislature - if the Congressional Black Caucus felt that she was not in support of African-American community, I don't think we would have received that endorsement today. I won't - I don't think that me as an elected official and other black elected officials in the state of South Carolina overwhelmingly, a lot of the legislative Black Caucus chairs in South Carolina, including myself, have endorsed Hillary Clinton. We would not put our community at a disadvantage. I don't think that we - we as a - a - as elected officials in this state, and black elected officials across this country, would come out strongly for Hillary Clinton if we thought she would be a disadvantage to our community.

BANFIELD: I have to - I have to - unfortunately I have to leave it there.

MCKNIGHT: Let me be clear on this -

BANFIELD: You've got to make it a ten-second comment or I'm going to lose our satellite window.

MCKNIGHT: I will. I can make it ten seconds. Let me be clear, Hillary Clinton is a far better choice than any Republican that we can have as a presidential candidate. If she wins, I will wholeheartedly support her. I just believe Bernie Sanders to be a better candidate than she.

BANFIELD: I appreciate both of you coming out and being so professional in your disagreement with one another. I'm fully expecting a handshake off camera between both of you. Thank you, both, for your time.

MCKNIGHT: Oh, we're friends.

KING: We actually can hug, because Hillary's going to be the president.

BANFIELD: (INAUDIBLE).

MCKNIGHT: Yes, right.

BANFIELD: Now this - now this is what I like to see in American politics. Thanks, gentlemen, I appreciate it.

And what's remarkable is with this difference, there is still the monolithic 74 percent black vote polling for Senator Clinton over 17 for Bernie Sanders. So look at your screen, folks. Programming note tonight, CNN is going to be simulcasting the PBS "News Hour" democratic presidential debate live from Milwaukee, 9:00 p.m. Eastern Time. You can find it on CNN, as well as your local PBS station.

Another piece of news, got to bring to you. It's not the greatest news, unfortunately, it's just one of those realities. Take a look at those numbers. The Dow down over 300 points. It's been a real mess on Wall Street today. And you keep hearing about oil prices being to blame. Well, once again, yes, they're below $30 a barrel. They're down below $27 per barrel right now. And that spells doom and gloom for people who trade stocks.

I want to go out to Alison Kosik at the New York Stock Exchange, where she's been watching the big board right from the - right from the moment of opening. We knew this was going to be ugly and it didn't disappoint for those folks.

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Oh, yes, those red arrows, they have not looked back. We've certainly seen the Dow plunge even further, although it's come back just a bit. You see the Dow down 300 points. And oil, as you said, Ashleigh, has a lot to do with it because when investors see oil plunging this much, you look at over the past two years, oil went from $100 down to $27. They see it as a bad omen, that it's signaling something that's wrong with the underlying economy.

Look, it's good for consumers because we love - it translates into our lower gas prices. But at some point in the economy, it hurts the economy. Look at just last year, 67 American oil and gas companies, they went bankrupt. That's actually a huge jump. There are lots of job cuts. Hundreds of thousands in the oil patch. Also foreclosures in those oil-rich states like North Dakota and Texas. So we - we do enjoy our lower oil prices because of the gas pump, but there is a big segment of the economy that's hurting.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: All right, Alison Kosik, watching it for us today. It's going to be one of those long days where everyone's going to be sort of holding on, gripping.

KOSIK: Yes, it will.

BANFIELD: You'll be one of them. Thank you, Alison.

KOSIK: Coming up next, he dominated the Republican field in New Hampshire, but can Donald Trump do the same thing further south when it comes to South Carolina? What about that guy who won Iowa a week ago? Remember him? Ted Cruz. Can he give Trump a run for his money now that evangelicals are back in play? It's a whole new state and a whole new battle south of the Mason Dixon.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:18:42] BANFIELD: Yesterday on LEGAL VIEW, when we were talking politics, the field of Republican candidates was bigger by two whole people! Not going to South Carolina, unless it's just for the southern hospitality now, would be the lady on the left, Carly Fiorina, and the gentlemen on the right, New Jersey Governor Chris Christie. They are now on the sidelines and presumably headed back to where they live, or already there.

Donald Trump, however, riding a giant lead into South Carolina, fresh from his primary win in New Hampshire. The surprise second-place finisher up north, John Kasich, Governor John Kasich, pulling pretty low, though, when it comes to South Carolina. And he even told CNN that he knows winning is not in the cards in South Carolina. But he's keeping it positive, nonetheless.

Donald Trump, positive? Not so much.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: People are tired of losing in this country. We're losing all the time. People are tired of stupidity, incompetence. We're not going to have it any more. We're not going to have it. And, you know, we had a case where somebody was talking about the anger that they think I have. I'm not an angry person. You're not angry. But we're angry about the way our country is run.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I think at this point it is becoming more and more a two-man race between me and Donald Trump. And what we're seeing is conservatives uniting behind our campaign. And if conservatives continue to unite, we're going to win the nomination and that's also how we win the general.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:20:13] BANFIELD: And there you have it, two guys whose voices are really loud. Senator Ted Cruz, said it quickly, so you may have missed it, but he calls the Republican contest a two-man race.

Margaret Hoover, political commentator, is with me now.

And you're also calling it a two-man race. I just don't know if you're calling it a two-man race for South Carolina or for the rest of the whole show.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Not for the rest of the show, potentially.

BANFIELD: What?

HOOVER: Certainly South Carolina and in the SEC primary, this essentially becomes down to - we talked about a bloodbath a lot yesterday. You heard this mean - there's a bloodbath between Marco Rubio for the - and Jeb Bush for the establishment lane.

BANFIELD: Yes.

HOOVER: This is going to be a bloodbath between Ted Cruz and Donald Trump in South Carolina and then extending through the southern states where you have the SEC primary on March 1st, because it's evangelicals they're fighting over. And the largest bloc of evangelicals they're going for, Ashleigh, is blue collar evangelicals. Trump won them in New Hampshire. Ted Cruz won them in Iowa.

BANFIELD: So they are not a monolithic bloc anymore?

HOOVER: No, nor have they ever been. You have college educated evangelicals and non-college educated evangelicals. There are 37 percent non-college educated evangelicals in South Carolina, only 28 percent college educated. That's who they're voting for. That is - that is the bloc of voters that both of them need to win.

BANFIELD: The issue for, obviously, every one of the candidates who's dropped out except for Ben Carson - I'm still curious about Ben Carson, so I'll ask you that in a minute - has been money. You run out of money, you run out of people who are going to back you and now there is that establishment money and that establishment support that seems to be up for grabs. And no one seems to know where that money's going to go.

HOOVER: Establishment money is not up for grabs.

BANFIELD: They call it "big mo" (ph). Is that what they call it on campaign trails?

HOOVER: It's an - it's - it's - yes, but it's not up for grabs. It's tied up between Jeb and Kasich and Rubio. And that establishment money is all there. Cruz has his own funding. Trump, as we know, has his own funding. So, actually, the - I mean the problem is, if the establishment really wants a race -

BANFIELD: So pick one (ph).

HOOVER: They're going to have the coalition. But that is an old (INAUDIBLE). I mean this is not about the establishment. That's the old paradigm. The new paradigm is, you know, Trump's a disrupter. This is Trump's race to lose. How much is Cruz going to, you know, sort of cobble (ph) off. Cruz has owned Christian evangelical conservatives and he will continue to do that, but that's just a third of the party. Trump has coalesced this other third of the party and then the establishment, those other three guys, are fighting over the other third.

BANFIELD: And (INAUDIBLE) those evangelicals. I mean that's what I found so unusual. (INAUDIBLE) can - or, I should say, twice divorced and three times married, a fellow could get (INAUDIBLE).

HOOVER: I'm so glad you mentioned that. I'm so glad you mentioned it, though, because when you - when you look at these evangelicals, the non-college evangelicals, which are a larger bloc - BANFIELD: Very different.

HOOVER: Have a lot of big challenges and the issues that motivate them are economic issues. They're kitchen table issues.

BANFIELD: Yes.

HOOVER: So they - you talk about immigration, that's an economic issue. You talk about trade, that's an economic issue.

BANFIELD: And it trumps the evangelical issue, pardon the pun.

Margaret Hoover, great to have you. Thank you.

HOOVER: Thanks.

BANFIELD: A reminder, tonight, if I didn't already say it, I'm going to say it again, CNN is going to simulcast the PBS "News Hour" Democratic presidential debate live from Milwaukee - yes, Wisconsin! It starts at 9:00 p.m. Eastern Time. You can find it here on CNN and your local PBS station.

And coming up next, it is deadly and it is spreading and it's raising fears around the world and it is front and center right now on Capitol Hill. I'm talking about Zika virus and the United States. Dr. Sanjay Gupta is going to join me with the real stories and the real risks after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:27:56] BANFIELD: The Zika virus is front and center here in the United States at a Senate Appropriations Subcommittee hearing today. It's because the directors of both the CDC and the National Institutes of Allergy and Infectious Diseases are on hand to answer the senator's questions related to the president's request for money, emergency money, to battle this problem of Zika. The CDC chief shared his concerns.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. THOMAS FRIEDEN, DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: We will undoubtedly see many travelers returning to the U.S. with Zika. There are about 40 million people who travel from the U.S. to Zika affected areas each year. Many of those will come back with Zika. If it - if it's like dengue and Chikungunya in the past, we will see hundreds or thousands of travelers returning to the U.S. And, unfortunately, some of those individuals will be pregnant women.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: The hearing comes with some very bad news breaking, as well. Brazil's ministry of health is confirming today three deaths related to Zika. And the last one happened in April. And the virus has now been linked to an eye abnormality that can cause blindness in babies born with that disease you keep hearing of, microcephaly.

I want to get some of the straight answers on what these risks are with Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who joins me live.

Sanjay, thank you so much.

You know up until now I was prepared to ask you questions about the spread of Zika here in the United States, and I will get to that. But then this morning the news of these three deaths in Brazil. And these were not babies. These were grownups. These were adults with Zika. Is this a new risk that we're just learning about that it's now deadly?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: No, I don't think so. I think, you know, what we've been hearing all along is the vast majority of people who get this infection are going to - you have little or no symptoms. And when I say vast majority, I mean 80 percent of people. There are some people who - it's going to be riskier in. It could be people who have underlying illness. It could be people who - whose immune systems are suppressed. We don't know.

There's one - one of the cases - one of the people down in Brazil is a 20-year-old woman who apparently had no other medical history, but it's also challenging sometimes to know did, in fact, did she have Zika for sure or was this another infectious disease? And it speaks to the capability of the testing right now, Ashleigh. It's not perfect testing by any means. So they don't always know for sure if, in fact, Zika is what led to her death.

[12:30:11] BANFIELD: OK. Sanjay, there are now 20 --