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Pope Talks Politics; Frontlines of Aleppo; Rubio's Attacks on Rivals Get More Personal. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired February 12, 2016 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00] DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (voice-over): Mexico. And I think Mexico got him to do it, because Mexico wants to keep the border just the way it is, because they're marking a fortune and we're losing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: With me now to talk about this, Representative Xavier Becerra, he's a Democrat from California who supports Hillary Clinton.

Welcome, sir.

REP. XAVIER BECERRA (D), CALIFORNIA: Thank you, Carol.

COSTELLO: The Vatican says Pope Francis does not want to intervene in American politics, but isn't that exactly what he's doing?

BECERRA: This is the pope. Perhaps the most respected leader in the world. Anything he says is going to impact people throughout the world. So he's going to have an impact everywhere and certainly for the millions of Catholics, the millions of immigrants who are Catholics, it's going to have an impact. So what would anyone expect?

We knew Donald Trump was against immigrants. We didn't realize he was against the immigrant in chief, the son of an immigrant, and that's the pope. So Pope Francis is going to do what he does and that Donald Trump is now against the pope, I'm not surprised.

COSTELLO: Well, Congressman Becerra, should the pope inject himself into American politics?

BECERRA: Again, Carol, I don't know if he - he's never - he's not going to step on U.S. soil and he's going to talk about what he always talks about as the leader of the catholic faith and, as I said, a leader in the world. He's going to talk about humanity and the need for us to sacrifice for each other and then the need to treat each other as brothers and sisters. And so I - I applaud the pope for what he's doing today in Cuba in meeting with the patriarch and I applaud what he's doing when he goes to Mexico, talking to all those who are suffering, all those people who are refugees, all those who are seeking what we have.

COSTELLO: Mr. Trump's comments aside, the Justice Department will soon repatriate 313,000 people who crossed the border illegally last year. I mean it is clear we have a border problem, isn't it?

BECERRA: We have a challenge in dealing with people who want to come to America, the magnet of the world, absolutely. And we're - we're dealing with it. And I applaud President Obama for saying, let's go after first those who are trying to do us harm, those who are criminals, and deporting them. And then let's recognize that there a lot of folks who established a life here, who we helped establish a life here by giving them a chance to work here, a chance to be around our neighborhoods. Many of them doing this for years. And what he's saying is, rather than go after women and children, and families, let's go after felons. And unless Congress were to give the president innumerable resources, the president has to focus his attention to go after those who are trying to do us harm, the felons, rather than break up families.

COSTELLO: But not all of these 313,000 people are felons, are they?

BECERRA: No. What the president has also said is that if you were - if you were just recently trying to cross the border, he's trying to make it clear, don't do that. Do it the right way. And so the president has made it clear, we should have priorities. But he has made an emphatic point, Carol, I think it has to be clear, especially to those immigrant families that might be listening, that the president's policy is to go after those who are trying to do us harm, who are in this country without documents, because you never know who they might be and what they might try to do. And I agree with him completely, but should we go to that grocery store or have our ICE agents posted at schools to try to pick up children or people who are working to try to - and going to the grocery store to bring home food for their families? No. I think there's a clear case that with the limited resources we have with homeland security, we should go after those who are trying to do us harm.

COSTELLO: Back to Mr. Trump for just a second. Mr. Trump and Senator Cruz, who is a Cuban-American, by the way, both support building a wall to keep undocumented immigrants out. I know you have a problem in particular with Senator Cruz. Why?

BECERRA: Well, not only do I have a problem with the whole idea of building a wall, because you can always build a ladder that's taller than the wall, is that it doesn't speak to the real challenge that we face. And certainly for someone like Ted Cruz, who is of Cuban heritage, who is the son of immigrants, it's kind of odd that, you know, he must understand that Cubans who try to come into this country, even without documents, the moment they set foot on the U.S., if their toe touches U.S. soil, they are granted refugee status automatically. No questions asked. That's a policy that's existed for a long time. And for him to be talking about excluding, building a wall for those immigrants from, say, Central America and not giving them the same treatment as Cuban-Americans, again, it raises a question. As president, would he treat people differently, disparately, based on who he likes and who he doesn't like? And I think that's a real failing of Senator Cruz.

COSTELLO: Are you saying that the United States -

BECERRA: Senator Rubio as well, quite honestly.

COSTELLO: Well, are you saying that the United States should change its policy when it comes to Cubans coming into the United States?

BECERRA: I think the United States has to have a clear and a consistent policy. That's why so many of us have been fighting to fix our broken immigration system because it's broken. Yu have cases where people are treated differently for unreasonable reasons. It's nonsensible reasons. And so when it comes to Cuban immigrants, if they're coming here to work hard to make this country better, that's great. I applaud that. I'm the son of immigrants, and I would never deny a family that's working hard, trying to do things the right way in this country, an opportunity to do what my parents did. A father with a sixth grade education. Mother came from Guadalajara, (INAUDIBLE) Mexico and she married my dad when she was 18. I'm the first in my family to get that four-year college degree. Those are the kinds of things that America is about. And so immigrants, if you want to work hard, make this country better, we should welcome you. But let's all try to do it the right way and that's why we've got to fix this broken immigration system.

[09:35:46] COSTELLO: All right, I have to leave it there. Congressman Xavier Becerra, thank you so much for joining me this morning.

BECERRA: Carol, thank you.

COSTELLO: You're welcome.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, on the front lines of Syria's civil war. CNN gets rare access inside Aleppo.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:40:05] COSTELLO: A tentative deal has been reached that could be the first step to stop the fighting inside Syria. Leaders from more than a dozen countries, including the United States and Russia, met in Germany to hammer out that agreement. Secretary of State John Kerry calls it a cessation of hostilities. Not a cease-fire. It's set to take effect in one week and also provides desperately needed aid for Syrian refugees. Russia says it will continue its air strikes on terrorist targets inside Syria, though, since the truce does not apply to them.

Still, this tentative deal comes as the Syrian government forces make new advances in the key battleground city of Aleppo. Much of that city has already been reduced to dust and rubble following five years of fighting. And now pro-Assad fighters say they're dealing a crushing blow that could give them a decisive victory once and for all.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen got rare access to the front lines in Aleppo. He joins us live now.

Good morning. Frederik? Well, obviously, Frederik could not hear us. Hopefully we'll get back to Frederik in just a second.

But let's go to the taped portion of his report. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Years of urban combat have laid waste to Aleppo's old town. Syrian army snipers scan the terrain for possible movement on the other side.

PLEITGEN (on camera): We're right on the front line in the Syrian government's offensive against the opposition. And the soldiers here tell us they still frequently see rebels on the other side, but they also say they often pick them off from the sniper's nest.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): This soldier tells me morale has never been higher. "Thanks to God, everything here is under control," he says. "Our fingers are on the triggers, ready to destroy the rebels."

Bashar al Assad's forces have made major gains in the Aleppo area in recent weeks, while the opposition rebels say they're simply being slaughtered. But for years, this battlefield was in a stalemate, the front line right around Aleppo's ancient citadel. As Syrian and Russian warplanes hover overhead, the commander knows who to thank for the new-found momentum. "It's only a matter of months now until we win," he says. "Thanks to the Russian support with their air strikes flown from the Syrian air field, we will defeat the rebels once and for all."

Aleppo was Syria's largest and most of its most historic towns. Tourists from all over the world used to flock to the old town before it was engulfed by Syria's brutal civil war.

PLEITGEN (on camera): The old town of Aleppo is a UNESCO World Heritage site. Some of these buildings are hundreds, if not thousands of years old. And now, as you can see, most have been completely destroyed and burned out.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): But now Assad's troop believe they are on a verge of a decisive victory. The commander warns the U.S. not to interfere.

"We are steadfast," he says. "You cannot defeat the Syrian army because we are determined to win, and we're royal to President Assad."

Amid this divided and destroyed city, Syrian government forces believe they're dealing a crushes blow to the opposition, one that could end this five-year civil war that's destroyed so much more than just the landscape.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PLEITGEN: And, Carol, it has certainly destroyed so much more than just the landscape. When you speak to people there in Aleppo, they say they are so sick of the fighting that's been going on for five years now. Whether they're in government-controlled or rebel-controlled area, it is so difficult for them to live here. There's almost no electricity. Very little supplies for many of them as well. The other thing that we found striking as we were going there along

the front line, in the town of Aleppo, but also in northern Aleppo, was also the major sway that both Iran and Hezbollah and also the Russians have there as well. There's a lot of pictures of Iran's supreme leader, also of the leader of Hezbollah and people there, the pro-government fighters, will tell you, it's no secret for them that the Russians were the ones that made the difference for them on the battlefield, not just with their air strikes themselves, but also because they continue to provide aerial intelligence to the Syria military to make their strikes more accurate.

Carol.

COSTELLO: Frederik Pleitgen reporting live from inside Syria this morning.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Marco Rubio on the attack, naming names, and putting his rivals on notice that he's coming after them in tomorrow night's debate. We'll talk about that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:48:53] COSTELLO: Marco Rubio, 2.0. After a disappointing finish in New Hampshire Rubio is getting more aggressive and personal against his Republican rivals.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump has zero foreign policy experience. Negotiating a hotel deal in another country is not foreign policy experience. Jeb Bush has no foreign policy experience, period. Ted Cruz, the only budget he's ever voted for in his years in Washington was a budget sponsored by Rand Paul that bragged about cutting defense spending.

COSTELLO (voice-over): Rubio took a lot of heat in the last GOP debate for repeating the same lines. It made many people wonder if he could be spontaneous. Well, a chance encounter with a Twix candy bar gave him an opportunity to show he can.

RUBIO: It didn't happen earlier today, it happened last night. I bit into a Twix bar that I think was potentially frozen, and - just the cold weather or whatever, and I cracked a molar or something. But we're going to keep campaigning. We're not suspending the campaign over that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO (on camera): "Washington Post" reporter Manuel Roig-Franzia was the Miami bureau chief when he first came to know Marco Rubio. His 2012 biography of the candidate is called "The Rise of Marco Rubio."

Welcome, Manuel.

MANUEL ROIG-FRANZIA, CORRESPONDENT, THE WASHINGTON POST: It's a pleasure to be with you.

[09:50:07] COSTELLO: Nice to have you here. So - so who is the real Rubio, the robotic candidate we saw in that debate or the guy that made the Twix joke?

ROIG-FRANZIA: You know, when he was a young man, he volunteered and worked for Bob Dole's presidential campaign, and he was asked to go on the radio as a surrogate for Bob Dole. He wasn't prepared, he had a terrible experience on the radio. He vowed never, ever to not be prepared again, and I think you see sort of the effects of that kind of mind set when he goes on stage now. He's ready, he has his lines ready to go, and he's so smooth that sometimes that can come off as phony or canned.

COSTELLO: You know, the rub on him is that he's always been very tightly controlled by his handlers, even when he was a state lawmaker in Florida. Is that fair?

ROIG-FRANZIA: He's somebody who has a close knit circle of advisors, he listens to them, and they consult with each other about what their line of attack is going to be, and then he stays on message and he's disciplined. He's going to repeat and pound the same points over and over again because he realizes that not everyone is tuning in at every moment during the campaign like, say, for instance, you and I are.

COSTELLO: Exactly. Rubio appears today at the Faith and Family Forum in Greenville, South Carolina. You know, it's a chance to him to appeal to evangelicals, but his own religious path is kind of confusing. Explain that for us.

ROIG-FRANZIA: Yes, I would put it under the category of it's complicated. He was born Catholic, as a child the family moved to Las Vegas, he converted to Mormonism. He returned to the Catholic church, and then as an adult when he was married he has attended both an Evangelical church and a Catholic church.

He is a person who speaks about religion in a very sincere way. I would count it as one of his biggest advantages. He talks about God and he talks about faith in a more open and accessible manner than anyone else on the campaign stage right now, even Ted Cruz who appeals so well to evangelicals. And I would expect him to continue talking about his personal relationship with God throughout this campaign.

COSTELLO: Interesting. Okay, so let's talk about Rubio's stand on immigration because he's hardened his stance, right? You know, once he's running for president, he hardened his stance. Can you explain where exactly he stands on immigration?

ROIG-FRANZIA: I think anyone who is watching this closely would have a difficult time explaining exactly where he has been on immigration because he has so subtly evolved his positions and his tone on immigration. You know, when he was in the legislature, when I first began looking at his career, he took a tone that was really very pro- immigrant, it was a moderate tone.

When he ran for the Senate, he changed the tone. He talked about things like the Papers, Please Law in Arizona and how he would have voted for that. That really made him a superstar with the conservative press and with the Tea Party. They expected a different kind of senator when he got to Washington. And when he came in as a key member of the Gang of Eight, reforming the immigration program in the United States, a lot of those people who supported him when he ran for the Senate and made him a star felt betrayed.

COSTELLO: So, where do you think he'll land on immigration when all is said and done?

ROIG-FRANZIA: It's clear he wants to do something about immigration. It's a personal issue for him because he is not only from Florida but he is from a family of immigrants. And I would expect him to talk a lot about securing border, but also talk about improving the system for entry and exit with visas so that it's a more orderly system.

The real pressure on him will be whether he will take a hard stand on a path to citizenship for the 11 million or 12 million people who are in the country undocumented. That is the tough question for him to answer, and it's the one that he eventually will be forced to answer.

COSTELLO: I'm sure you're right about that. Manuel Roig-Franzia, thank you so much for joining me this morning.

Still to come in the...

ROIG-FRANZIA: Great to be with you. Bring candy next time.

COSTELLO: Thanks, I will. Thank you so much.

[09:54:48] Still to come in the NEWSROOM, it's a story that captured the nation's attention, how a jury has ruled in the shooting death of an unarmed man in New York City.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO (voice-over): Checking some top stories for you at 59 minutes past. A New York City police officer has been convicted of manslaughter and official misconduct in the shooting death of an unarmed man in 2014. A 28-year-old Akai Gurley was killed in the stairwell of a Brooklyn housing project by that rookie officer, Peter Liang. The jury rejected the defense argument that the shooting was accidental. Liang automatically loses his job and he could face 15 years behind bars.

Police in Columbus, Ohio, shot and killed a man who fled from a restaurant after attacking patrons with a machete. Four people were hurt, one in critical condition. One witness described the chaotic scene.

KAREN BASS, ESCAPED FROM ATTACKER: A man came in and started beating up on a man and I thought it was a personal thing, and then he just started down the row hitting everybody with something. I don't know. It was -- people were bleeding. COSTELLO: Police stopped the man after a car chase. They fatally shot

him when he lunged at them with that machete and also one knife.